[jcarufo]

If you're losing fish due to bent hooks it does.

So, I should be satisfied fishing an inferior product? This is the first time in over 30 years I've ever experienced failure with multiple hooks out of the same package. The drag isn't that tight. These hooks are junk. jc

 

[Chris Nordling]

So, I should be satisfied fishing an inferior product? This is the first time in over 30 years I've ever experienced failure with multiple hooks out of the same package. The drag isn't that tight. These hooks are junk. jc

You will like the Maruto hook. I experience the same results when fishing Astoria with any Gamakatsu trebles. Love 'em everywhere but there....

 

[fishin"G"man]

The number one reason I refuse to buy into the hype. As a somewhat bitter divorcee, I'm not quite sure I could stomach that kind rejection all over again.

Rejection is one thing...not to mention, the aspect of what do you do about it when a fish refuses your gear? Will the "TV" tell ya why, what to use? I'm in the camp of making yourself into a better fisherman by gaining and using fishing knowledge not by watching a "TV" all day.
Not getting bit? Reasoning usually works...Is it location, color, depth, wrong bait/lure? You will learn more by experimentation/thinking/asking yourself why, than watching a screen that tells you if/when/what a fish bites on (or doesn't). The mark of a good fisherman is what he knows about fishing. Knowing how to/what to do to remedy a no bite situation is gratifying.

 

[manuka]

My gear has been anywhere from 10 to 15 feet above where I thought is was ..for years!

Same here, it was the very first thing I noticed the first time I saw my presentation on the Livescope. What's it doing up so high? It required more 50% lead than I was using to put it where I wanted it. Can't believe I've had it too high all these years.

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

Same here, it was the very first thing I noticed the first time I saw my presentation on the Livescope. What's it doing up so high? It required more 50% lead than I was using to put it where I wanted it. Can't believe I've had it too high all these years.

Or, you've had it in the right spot all along.

One thing I had to adjust was not putting it where I THOUGHT I wanted it. I was first using it in a section of river I'd been fishing successfully for years. 35 on the counter accounting for the vast majority of my fish. That usually had me at about 12-15' down with 16oz according to LS. After watching how many fish shot up from way under it to nail it, I stopped caring about being where I THOUGHT I wanted to be. And for the most part, I'm starting to think our depth doesn't matter as much as we think. It seems that going below the fish might be the less favorable situation vs going above them. But I've seen them go up or down way more than I've seen them react positively to something coming right at them at their level.

 

[eyeFISH]

Or, you've had it in the right spot all along.

One thing I had to adjust was not putting it where I THOUGHT I wanted it. I was first using it in a section of river I'd been fishing successfully for years. 35 on the counter accounting for the vast majority of my fish. That usually had me at about 12-15' down with 16oz according to LS. After watching how many fish shot up from way under it to nail it, I stopped caring about being where I THOUGHT I wanted to be. And for the most part, I'm starting to think our depth doesn't matter as much as we think. It seems that going below the fish might be the less favorable situation vs going above them. But I've seen them go up or down way more than I've seen them react positively to something coming right at them at their level.

Pretty well convinced fish like to see the presentation rising or falling…. triggering them to chase accordingly.

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

Pretty well convinced fish like to see the presentation rising or falling…. triggering them to chase accordingly.

Well like I said in a previous post: I've never once got one to strike by dropping it or reeling up when it was following. When you try to send it down, what you see happen is the gear actually falls back and into the fish's face, which they don't like. I've tried to drop it as fast as possible, but still doesn't work. But I just think seeing something above or below them is non-threatening, while a mass of gear coming right at their face doesn't trigger any chase response, and more triggers a "flight" response.

 

[2slow]

Rejection is one thing...not to mention, the aspect of what do you do about it when a fish refuses your gear? Will the "TV" tell ya why, what to use? I'm in the camp of making yourself into a better fisherman by gaining and using fishing knowledge not by watching a "TV" all day.
Not getting bit? Reasoning usually works...Is it location, color, depth, wrong bait/lure? You will learn more by experimentation/thinking/asking yourself why, than watching a screen that tells you if/when/what a fish bites on (or doesn't). The mark of a good fisherman is what he knows about fishing. Knowing how to/what to do to remedy a no bite situation is gratifying.

So, without the livescope how do you know that fish are just refusing your bait due to "color, depth, wrong bait/lure"?? Maybe you aren't in an area that doesn't have fish? With the livescope, I can see them either totally ignore my bait, show some interest and follow it, or eat it. BUT, I know I am in fish. With out it I don't know if I am fishing in an area devoid of fish or not. Once knowing I am in an area with fish I can work on how to get them to bite. I'm not wasting my time changing baits and presentation trying to catch fish that aren't there.

 

[fishin"G"man]

Well like I said in a previous post: I've never once got one to strike by dropping it or reeling up when it was following. When you try to send it down, what you see happen is the gear actually falls back and into the fish's face, which they don't like. I've tried to drop it as fast as possible, but still doesn't work. But I just think seeing something above or below them is non-threatening, while a mass of gear coming right at their face doesn't trigger any chase response, and more triggers a "flight" response.

So stripping line after a "bite" isn't something that has worked for you? I've fished with guys that didn't believe in doing that. I'd say it woks at least 50% of the time. I think it'd be fun to have a query on how many strip line after a bite...
That's pretty common for us in the pond but it even worked the other day in the river. I recon it's like a flip with a tail or an aggression strike to stun the bait, then they come back for it when it "moves/falters/flutters like it's wounded". I could be way off on the theory but stripping line after a hit will always be in my toolbox. As for dropping "into" or even reeling up slowly, that maneuver has produced many a fish bite. It's those surprise catches that makes fishing even more fun.

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

So stripping line after a "bite" isn't something that has worked for you? I've fished with guys that didn't believe in doing that. I'd say it woks at least 50% of the time. I think it'd be fun to have a query on how many strip line after a bite...
That's pretty common for us in the pond but it even worked the other day in the river. I recon it's like a flip with a tail or an aggression strike to stun the bait, then they come back for it when it "moves/falters/flutters like it's wounded". I could be way off on the theory but stripping line after a hit will always be in my toolbox. As for dropping "into" or even reeling up slowly, that maneuver has produced many a fish bite. It's those surprise catches that makes fishing even more fun.

Haven't tried it yet on a "biter" that didn't stick. Just on followers. Actually since I got it, I didn't really watch any short strikes happen now that I think of it. I'd try that next time I see it happen though.

 

[fishin"G"man]

So, without the livescope how do you know that fish are just refusing your bait due to "color, depth, wrong bait/lure"?? Maybe you aren't in an area that doesn't have fish? With the livescope, I can see them either totally ignore my bait, show some interest and follow it, or eat it. BUT, I know I am in fish. With out it I don't know if I am fishing in an area devoid of fish or not. Once knowing I am in an area with fish I can work on how to get them to bite. I'm not wasting my time changing baits and presentation trying to catch fish that aren't there.

2slow, You're 100% right, I don't know when I miss fish nor for what reason, but I DO know when I see fish on the sounder (and they're not biting) I should do something different. In other words, I don't need livescope to tell me where fish are or that I'm not getting bites. It's fairly obvious.
I will agree that livescope can be another great tool to determine that "yup...fish are seeing/looking at my bait, just not biting" but that's the challenge of fishing. Sure, it has merit but I'm (like you) I enjoy finding ways or figuring out ways, or figuring out why I'm not catching. Livescope doesn't tell me that. I'm not "bashing" the use of livescope per se' just not willing to put out 3-4 grand for the knowledge that fish are refusing/neglecting my offering. My sounder already tells me there's fish, If I'm not getting bit, I need to "fix" that.
Admittedly, I look at the sounder more than I should, mostly because I want to know if there's fish there and what depth they're at. The tools to help fisherman catch fish are many... If money were no issue spot lock, livescope etc etc would all be great additions but no amount of money or tools makes a fish bite or tells me why they're not. That's why fishing is a fun challenge!!!

 

[jcarufo]

So, without the livescope how do you know that fish are just refusing your bait due to "color, depth, wrong bait/lure"?? Maybe you aren't in an area that doesn't have fish? With the livescope, I can see them either totally ignore my bait, show some interest and follow it, or eat it. BUT, I know I am in fish. With out it I don't know if I am fishing in an area devoid of fish or not. Once knowing I am in an area with fish I can work on how to get them to bite. I'm not wasting my time changing baits and presentation trying to catch fish that aren't there.

Those big red arches with yellow centers on my Raymarine tell me the fish are there. Are you advocating replacing 'regular' sonar with LS? Last Saturday when we pulled up to 50, we knew there weren't any fish there. Our screen was blank and no bent rods for 50+ boats. Definitely didn't need LS to tell us that. When we ran to Cape Horn, totally different story. Our screen was packed with arches and we did well.
Maybe I will give you where in a 'new' fishery LS might be an advantage, or at least an instructional tool, but in fisheries we know, I know what it takes to get bit. In 'new' areas, I'm more interested in bottom contours, so we do a quick pass to update the map. I'm looking for travel lanes.
It's interesting in that the more I read here, the less I hear that LS puts any more fish in anyone's bag. An interesting tool maybe, but also possibly a diversionary novelty at best. jc

 

[bscappell]

I'm not expert in sonor but the arches you see on a 2d screen don't necessarily represent a fish at the depth. As I understand it, represents (depending on the return strength?) a fish that many feet away from the transducer. So a mark at 40 feet that isn't a strong return (meaning right under the transducer) could be 20 down and x number of feet to the side of the boat (sorry the algebra isn't happening in my mind today).
Probably way more technical than needed but interesting.
Maybe someone else has more knowledge in this.

 

[adamg]

One thing LS taught me is that my Garmin Echomap with its standard GT56UHD transducer is useless and I was fishing blind previously. Ive been on top of large pods of salmon, either swimming in the opposite direction or matched speed and swimming upstream with me, meanwhile the traditional sonar is totally blank. Other times, I see what appear to be and what I previously would have thought to be large pods of fish on the traditional sonar that are nowhere to be found searching around on the LS. So, after dropping all that money on the new LS, I will probably also need to shell out for a nicer Raymarine sonar unit 💰

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

One thing LS taught me is that my Garmin Echomap with its standard GT56UHD transducer is useless and I was fishing blind previously. Ive been on top of large pods of salmon, either swimming in the opposite direction or matched speed and swimming upstream with me, meanwhile the traditional sonar is totally blank. Other times, I see what appear to be and what I previously would have thought to be large pods of fish on the traditional sonar that are nowhere to be found searching around on the LS. So, after dropping all that money on the new LS, I will probably also need to shell out for a nicer Raymarine sonar unit 💰

My experience as well. I have two screens - one with LS and a split screen with my contours + traditional sonar. Traditional sonar is often returning false positives or missing fish altogether. They SOMETIMES corroborate each other, but not always. That said, pre-LS, I did mostly just fine using traditional sonar to get an idea.

 

[jcarufo]

One thing LS taught me is that my Garmin Echomap with its standard GT56UHD transducer is useless and I was fishing blind previously. Ive been on top of large pods of salmon, either swimming in the opposite direction or matched speed and swimming upstream with me, meanwhile the traditional sonar is totally blank. Other times, I see what appear to be and what I previously would have thought to be large pods of fish on the traditional sonar that are nowhere to be found searching around on the LS. So, after dropping all that money on the new LS, I will probably also need to shell out for a nicer Raymarine sonar unit 💰

It would be interesting if, over time, Garmin's introduction of LS and how many like Bobber Downey Jr and you have it set up to compare returns, shows their regular sonar product to be inferior or unreliable. I'm really glad now I went with my Ray Axiom+. I really like that thing and can easily confirm down vision returns with side vision or 3d. I have an Airmar P66 transducer that has always been solid and reliable. The more I read this thread the happier I am that when I upgraded my electronics, I actually compared brands and bought what I thought was a quality product based on visualized performance vs what everyone else 'had'. jc

 

[Joek]

If you follow tournament bass fishing at all you have probably read about the drama regarding live scope bans. Appears to really be impacting bass fishing.

having said that, curious about thoughts on live scope and the impact it has on salmon fishing.

I have been in multiple boats with live scope and I definitely see its advantages. However, not a fan of staring at another screen constantly. LThe jury is still out for me on whether I think it plays a significant role in catch rates.

I target the fun-sized. I’m a LS addict. In fact, I’d consider a second system to dedicate one to perspective and the other to forward.

As it is now, I use forward when my targets are stratified and perspective when the water cools and fish are in the top water.

Occasionally I’ll take a Quick Look at one of my other two transducers. The fish move day to day and throughout the day. Often I see fish that don’t register on my other two systems. At the cleaning table people talk about hooking “ghost fish”. I can see a single aggressive fish swim down and tie up. I don’t have many ghost fish experiences.

I’ve stepped up from the 32 to the 34.

System is also part of the experience when I take friends out. Talk about the techniques that help put action on our rods.

I have been making up for lost years that I kept my nose to the grindstone. About 5 years ago I gave myself permission to dump money into a fish harvesting tractor. And permission to get out on average a day per week. Point is, as a recreational fisherman, I’ve logged about 150 days over about three years. If the system cost $4,000 that is what, about $25/trip? Less than $1.50 per harvested fish. I’m not done using it, so I’m on a mission to get my cost down to a nickel per fish and a buck per launch.

No regrets experiences is my program. Grateful that I have access to tools like this that feed my fishing compulsion.

I can say that this has helped me put fish in my box. Some days more than others, but if I’m plowing water, that transducer is deployed.

I’m learning how to interpret content on the screen and figure that will be the case years from now.

I’ve enjoyed this thread and the thoughts shared.

Last I’ll say is that I don’t watch my gear usually. However on a trip a couple weeks back I put on a little class - saw we were approaching a small school. I grabbed a stacked rod and “hunted” it. Ran it up and down the DR cable in about 5’ runs and wham. Got a good reaction from my fishing buddy that went out that day to learn about LS. Glad the fish followed the script. The fish hit the 1 rod that was hunting and skipped the other three. LS helped my timing.