[ryankmasuda]

Steelhead get to be 20 lbs, not by being released as smaller adults, but by spending more time in a productive ocean. That's the problem (sick ocean), along with fewer steelhead returning as adults overall. FWIW, repeat returning steelhead are usually hens and don't gain much weight year-to-year because the journeys take so much energy.

I'll add that, as far as CR summer steelhead that would reach 20 lbs, they'd be mostly Idaho B-run fish which would stand to increase about 3-4 X if the Snake River 4 lower dams came out. It's curious to me that fishermen oppose that, as seen on that other thread....

Nailed It!

Optimal ocean conditions, abundant food lead to healthy fish.

 

[ccw]

Some fishermen support dam removal. And a primary factor in ocean conditions isn’t just temperatures and shortage of bait, it’s the decreasing likelihood of surviving the 4+ years out there amongst ever more commercial pressure.

 

[Tenderoni77]

Any recent reports? Don’t need an ecology lesson…

 

[met'lhead matt]

Steelhead get to be 20 lbs, not by being released as smaller adults, but by spending more time in a productive ocean. That's the problem (sick ocean), along with fewer steelhead returning as adults overall. FWIW, repeat returning steelhead are usually hens and don't gain much weight year-to-year because the journeys take so much energy.

I'll add that, as far as CR summer steelhead that would reach 20 lbs, they'd be mostly Idaho B-run fish which would stand to increase about 3-4 X if the Snake River 4 lower dams came out. It's curious to me that fishermen oppose that, as seen on that other thread....

I have caught a few toads, and on more then one occasion had scale samples done, and all my toads, had one thing in common, they came back as one salt fish, and went back out only to come back 4 years later, our biggest did this and had 4 return years, total. Fish that make it back out, are hardly any bigger the next return year. Then their peak weight. So let the little jack steelhead swim free, may be your next memory

 

[chillywilly]

I have caught a few toads, and on more then one occasion had scale samples done, and all my toads, had one thing in common, they came back as one salt fish, and went back out only to come back 4 years later, our biggest did this and had 4 return years, total. Fish that make it back out, are hardly any bigger the next return year. Then their peak weight. So let the little jack steelhead swim free, may be your next memory

Less than a year ago, you seemed to be all for catching and keeping all that was allowed and no thought to releasing anything that might make it out for another try. Now there are fewer yet steelhead: are you changing your mind? Seems to me like you thought back then that a hundred thousand A-B steelhead back to Idaho was a great thing (even though 4 hundred thousand a year was an average count in the 80's and 90's) and there were still B-runs to have a legitimate chance at catching one. So when was the last one you caught? I would caution believing any statistic the states offer on fish plentifulness' as the methods for garnering fish amounts is laughable, and remember that statistics are easy to manipulate in support of whatever position you may hold. Especially when it comes to CR salmonoid numbers.

 

[met'lhead matt]

Less than a year ago, you seemed to be all for catching and keeping all that was allowed and no thought to releasing anything that might make it out for another try. Now there are fewer yet steelhead: are you changing your mind? Seems to me like you thought back then that a hundred thousand A-B steelhead back to Idaho was a great thing (even though 4 hundred thousand a year was an average count in the 80's and 90's) and there were still B-runs to have a legitimate chance at catching one. So when was the last one you caught? I would caution believing any statistic the states offer on fish plentifulness' as the methods for garnering fish amounts is laughable, and remember that statistics are easy to manipulate in support of whatever position you may hold. Especially when it comes to CR salmonoid numbers.

Not changing my mind, a 12lb fish is always going to be a 12lb or close to it, no matter how often it returns, and as far as me keeping my limit of Hatchery steelhead, they are meant to be kept, they are not planting the numbers they use to plant, research NOAA and TU lawsuits over wild steelhead. This is how they can predict lower returns, don’t plant them and they won’t come back. Hence why the Wild component is returning at a 93% rate of the 10 year avg but the hatchery component is lagging at 62%. B runs get to swim free, after 8/1. Average in the 80’s and 90’s was closer to 200k at the river mouth, best years where from 2001-2011 with a couple bumper years and an average over 300k. Last year was not far off the 80’s and 90’s average, lower but within 14%. The best 10 year period is the one above, other then that period the 10 year average is mid 200k or below for last 80 years, not about letting them go, it is about planting them, more so

 

[chillywilly]

Not changing my mind, a 12lb fish is always going to be a 12lb or close to it, no matter how often it returns, and as far as me keeping my limit of Hatchery steelhead, they are meant to be kept, they are not planting the numbers they use to plant, research NOAA and TU lawsuits over wild steelhead. This is how they can predict lower returns, don’t plant them and they won’t come back. Hence why the Wild component is returning at a 93% rate of the 10 year avg but the hatchery component is lagging at 62%. B runs get to swim free, after 8/1. Average in the 80’s and 90’s was closer to 200k at the river mouth, best years where from 2001-2011 with a couple bumper years and an average over 300k. Last year was not far off the 80’s and 90’s average, lower but within 14%. The best 10 year period is the one above, other then that period the 10 year average is mid 200k or below for last 80 years, not about letting them go, it is about planting them, more so

Yes, but instead of using statistics from this century, go back to the 60's thru 90's. 200 thousand of close enough was an A run # and a B-run #. I agree wholeheartedly that we either got to plant way more and open more hatcheries or quit fishing. When was the last time you visited a river/creek in the line of; say the Lewis & Clark river that flows into the CR near Astoria/Seaside during spawning season and smelled the delightful smell of rotting fish along the creek bank or Scappoose and Mill creeks?. It stunk big time, now smells not at all nowadays.
With the lack of current interest in USA grown wheat vs Ukraine or Russian or maybe even Chineese wheat, maybe the whole issue about Snake River dams being so important for commerce could be put to rest. Maybe it will become Salmon over wheat kernels finally. All I can say is my Dad, a vehement Salmon fisherman, hauled a lot of equipment to Bridgeport when the dam with no fish ladder was ongoing so, maybe I got no right to comment on any of this, but I have lived it, bad and good.

 

[met'lhead matt]

Yes, but instead of using statistics from this century, go back to the 60's thru 90's. 200 thousand of close enough was an A run # and a B-run #. I agree wholeheartedly that we either got to plant way more and open more hatcheries or quit fishing. When was the last time you visited a river/creek in the line of; say the Lewis & Clark river that flows into the CR near Astoria/Seaside during spawning season and smelled the delightful smell of rotting fish along the creek bank or Scappoose and Mill creeks?. It stunk big time, now smells not at all nowadays.
With the lack of current interest in USA grown wheat vs Ukraine or Russian or maybe even Chineese wheat, maybe the whole issue about Snake River dams being so important for commerce could be put to rest. Maybe it will become Salmon over wheat kernels finally. All I can say is my Dad, a vehement Salmon fisherman, hauled a lot of equipment to Bridgeport when the dam with no fish ladder was ongoing so, maybe I got no right to comment on any of this, but I have lived it, bad and good.

Like I mentioned above the glory years all the way back to 1930 did not hold a candle to 2001-2011. The 50’s thru 90’s where comparable to last year to the river mouth.

 

[ryankmasuda]

3 rods, 3 hours on the hook and went 1:1

 

[Finsalong]

10,000 a day swiming by makes for a great time and freezer stuffings.

 

[DogZilla15]

The stories I heard from guys back in the early 70’s were amazing. 20 fish days were ho hum. The Walleye fishing as well. 40 fish days, lots in the 10/12 lb range, the occasional 14. Can’t think about what will be if we don’t remember the past.

 

[CKthumper]

Based on what Matt posted above, if fishing was that much better 50 yrs ago, it wasn't because runs were that much better.

Blame it on reduced plants? Unless the DART site is pure fiction, plants are down a little, like from 15 million to 14 million.

Believe what you want. Blame who you want. It's the American way.

 

[met'lhead matt]

Based on what Matt posted above, if fishing was that much better 50 yrs ago, it wasn't because runs were that much better.

Blame it on reduced plants? Unless the DART site is pure fiction, plants are down a little, like from 15 million to 14 million.

Believe what you want. Blame who you want. It's the American way.

The numbers I fished on in the 80’s 90’s till present have still produced great days on average, this is my worst year since the 80’s. I keep a log of every trip. There was nothing like 2001-2015. Magical. We need to focus on releases, water outflows, barging, etc during those magical years. Steelhead have very high success when being barged, Salmon not so much. Might be better for salmon, if the stocks where not mixed in the barges, The Ocean conditions are out of our control. What I find strange, is no jacks to use in calculations, all they can go by is plants and historical return percentages, really. And they predicted a bad year this year after last years well above return over prediction. So they know something they are not telling us. Maybe the plant numbers were not as advertised.

 

[Wild Chrome]

Regarding steelhead smolt release numbers and Bonneville counts, 2 questions with unedited answers courtesy of Perplexity AI:

How does the number of hatchery steelhead smolt released in the Columbia and Snake River basins compare now with 20 years ago?

Perplexity:
The number of hatchery steelhead smolts released in the Columbia and Snake River basins today is similar to the numbers released 20 years ago, with no evidence of a substantial increase or decrease over that period.
Available documents and management plans indicate that:

• Annual steelhead smolt releases have remained relatively stable in the Columbia and Snake River basins over the past two decades. There have been some adjustments in broodstock origin and release practices, primarily to comply with Endangered Species Act (ESA) requirements and to reduce impacts on wild fish, but these have not resulted in large-scale changes in the total number of hatchery smolts released[1][3].
• Federal and state hatchery programs have focused on refining operations (e.g., using local broodstock, controlling stray rates) rather than significantly altering release numbers[1].
• There have been periodic reviews and updates to hatchery practices, but the overall scale of hatchery production for steelhead smolts has been maintained at levels similar to those in the early 2000s[1][3].

In summary:
The number of hatchery steelhead smolts released in the Columbia and Snake River basins now is roughly comparable to the number released 20 years ago, with only minor adjustments for management and conservation purposes[1][3].

What has changed in the last 20 years to account for the large drop in Bonneville Dam summer steelhead counts?

Perplexity:
The large drop in Bonneville Dam summer steelhead counts over the last 20 years is primarily attributed to dramatic changes in ocean conditions, especially the impact of the "Blob," a persistent area of unusually warm water in the North Pacific Ocean[1]. This marine heatwave, which lasted for several years until 2015, significantly altered the North Pacific ecosystem by raising water temperatures and reducing the quantity and nutritional value of food organisms available to juvenile steelhead during their critical early marine life stage. As a result, many steelhead experienced starvation or poor growth, leading to much lower survival rates and, consequently, lower returns as adults to the Columbia River[1].

“We know temperature caused a dramatic shift in the North Pacific ecosystem... One effect of warm water in the ocean is to reduce the supply and nutritional value of food organisms. Many fish are believed to have simply starved.” — Dan Rawding, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife[1]

Other contributing factors over the last two decades include:

• Overall coastwide decline in steelhead populations, not just in the Columbia Basin, suggesting broader environmental and oceanic factors at play[2].
• Fluctuations in river conditions, predation, and other freshwater and estuarine stressors also contribute but are not cited as the primary drivers of the recent dramatic declines.

In summary, the unprecedented and prolonged warm ocean conditions of the "Blob" period are widely considered the chief cause of the sharp decline in Bonneville Dam summer steelhead counts in recent years, with other factors playing supporting roles[1][2].

 

[2Many]

"THEY" suck.
The end.

 

[met'lhead matt]

I agree with the ocean, but they found something to eat last year, I also think our snow pack in Washington plays a role, lower snow pack equals a warmer river and increased predication . Maybe

 

[Coastalhounddog]

Let them Swim.....

 

[Haftard]

Released a really nice wild today. Rays coonshimp and spin in glow. Right at the tide changes. Supper light bitter.

 

[Wild Chrome]

I agree with the ocean, but they found something to eat last year, I also think our snow pack in Washington plays a role, lower snow pack equals a warmer river and increased predication . Maybe

Last year was "meh" based on the dam counts and on my own personal success. Some of the people who thought last year was great don't realize the CR counts weren't even half the 00's average, nor 1/3 of the 2 best years in the 00's.

Regarding snowpack, the Oregon Cascades had well-above average snowpack at the peak in early this April, but as has been the case in recent years, the warmer, drier spring led to the snowpack melting a lot faster. By late May, rivers were running at summer levels (again). This will lead to very low levels when the heat of summer hits. As I write this, the flow on the Clackamas is a little better than 1/2 the mean for the date.

Since we're talking CR steelhead here, I'll just mention the run is being delayed every summer now by lower, warmer flows coming through The Dalles pool. They don't go over TDA in numbers until Late August or September now - the Deschutes and John Day runs are later than in the past.

 

[met'lhead matt]

I agree, even though I had much success last year, as I do most years those 2001-2011 years where off the hook, do not even have to work hard to get bit, although this year we are having to work hard to get our fish, I would be surprised if we break 75k over the wall