[manuka]

I was able to use my newly-acquired livescope for the first time yesterday. Pulling skateboards. I don't yet have my Arclab pole setup but I jerry-rigged something out of PVC and an Orca rod holder.

The first thing I learned is what a huge help it is for getting my presentation at the correct depth, to where the fish are. Although I saw several fish that moved up or down more than five feet to take a look at my bait, just knowing exactly where the bait is relative to the bottom and relative to the where fish were hanging out was enormously helpful. It also prompted me to change the size of my lead and gave me a better understanding of the relationship between my presentation depth and the speed I was going and the size of the lead.

Also it showed me clearly whether or not my 360 flasher was turning over. I was able to dial in the speed better than just looking at the heartbeat on the rod. And I could easily tell when stuff was getting weeded up.

Probably the biggest thing though is just knowing whether I was in an area with no fish and therefore wasting my time. I got a much better idea of which places in the fishery were holding fish and which weren't. Far better than arcs on a standard sonar screen, which are really of limited value in relatively shallow depths.

In a nutshell, it gives you a whole new level of understanding of what's actually going on down there.

I'm not good with it yet by any means. In particular I couldn't figure out how to induce bites when a fish is following the bait. Many fish would just come up and take a look and swim away, but some would follow it for awhile.

I'm going to give it a try back-trolling kwiks next. My favorite way to fish for kings.

 

[BillsFishingHole]

@manuka

That’s awesome and the excitement to get that thing in the water👍🏻

Those PVC fittings aren’t cheap anymore. 😂. Nice make do!!!

M

 

[adamg]

Probably the biggest thing though is just knowing whether I was in an area with no fish and therefore wasting my time. I got a much better idea of which places in the fishery were holding fish and which weren't. Far better than arcs on a standard sonar screen, which are really of limited value in relatively shallow depths.

What I've learned in the last few weeks fishing with my LS is that there are fish that on the move and have no interest in your bait, and then those that will turn, look, follow even charge it. Focus on those fish that show interest. If they are in a defined area that allows it and you can find them, run laps on them and change up speed, lures, bumper length, scents till you get them to commit.

 

[ccw]

Herring Aid, did you have a career in sales? Those are sound reasons, and it is great to hear of their efficacy on anchor.

 

[Starfish]

I was able to use my newly-acquired livescope for the first time yesterday. Pulling skateboards. I don't yet have my Arclab pole setup but I jerry-rigged something out of PVC and an Orca rod holder.

View attachment 1074454



The first thing I learned is what a huge help it is for getting my presentation at the correct depth, to where the fish are. Although I saw several fish that moved up or down more than five feet to take a look at my bait, just knowing exactly where the bait is relative to the bottom and relative to the where fish were hanging out was enormously helpful. It also prompted me to change the size of my lead and gave me a better understanding of the relationship between my presentation depth and the speed I was going and the size of the lead.

Also it showed me clearly whether or not my 360 flasher was turning over. I was able to dial in the speed better than just looking at the heartbeat on the rod. And I could easily tell when stuff was getting weeded up.

Probably the biggest thing though is just knowing whether I was in an area with no fish and therefore wasting my time. I got a much better idea of which places in the fishery were holding fish and which weren't. Far better than arcs on a standard sonar screen, which are really of limited value in relatively shallow depths.

In a nutshell, it gives you a whole new level of understanding of what's actually going on down there.

I'm not good with it yet by any means. In particular I couldn't figure out how to induce bites when a fish is following the bait. Many fish would just come up and take a look and swim away, but some would follow it for awhile.

I'm going to give it a try back-trolling kwiks next. My favorite way to fish for kings.

The big question… did you find any biters?

 

[Kirkll]

You might just be a red neck with that PVC rigging there... Nicely done btw...

 

[Reddog 1909]

I thought forward facing sonar and live scope are the same thing. I’m so confused 🤔

Yep

 

[manuka]

The big question… did you find any biters?

Just one. Unfortunately I was unable to put him into the boat, so it doesn't count. Fishing the confluence at Lewiston/Clarkston. Barbless and single pole.

 

[mic4fish]

Just one. Unfortunately I was unable to put him into the boat, so it doesn't count. Fishing the confluence at Lewiston/Clarkston. Barbless and single pole.

What was your take on lead? Could you get away with lighter lead to get your gear in front of fish?

 

[BillsFishingHole]

Just figured out a way to mount mine with out having to break my neck looking down on it while sitting on the floor. Not going to run with it there but it will fit into any Scotty holder base. It will also snap out and sit flat anywhere.

M

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

Here's my experience after a lot of time with it:

- Almost every biter I watched came straight to attack. Some came up from as far as 20' below the gear straight up to bite.

- Followers rarely commit no matter what. In my experience, dropping the gear or cranking it while they follow immediately sends them off. Never once saw one react positively to trying to do anything.

- There's lots of big schools of salmon moving through. The big schools rarely do anything but pass on by without a look.


- almost every time my gear was at the same level as the fish, the fish moved out of the way. The players always moved up or down, or came into view from the side to attack.

- after they appear to bite on the gear, they seem to swim with it for a few seconds before they turn and you see the rod bury.

- Seems like most of the arches we see on standard sonar are the schools of shad smolts.


Overall: What it boils down to is that it's a useful sonar that tells you if salmon are there.

 

[Reddog 1909]

Here's my experience after a lot of time with it:

- Almost every biter I watched came straight to attack. Some came up from as far as 20' below the gear straight up to bite.

- Followers rarely commit no matter what. In my experience, dropping the gear or cranking it while they follow immediately sends them off. Never once saw one react positively to trying to do anything.

- There's lots of big schools of salmon moving through. The big schools rarely do anything but pass on by without a look.


- almost every time my gear was at the same level as the fish, the fish moved out of the way. The players always moved up or down, or came into view from the side to attack.

- after they appear to bite on the gear, they seem to swim with it for a few seconds before they turn and you see the rod bury.

- Seems like most of the arches we see on standard sonar are the schools of shad smolts.


Overall: What it boils down to is that it's a useful sonar that tells you if salmon are there.

Yep I haven’t been using it that long but you are spot on👍no knowledge about the shad

 

[Starfish]

Here's my experience after a lot of time with it:

- Almost every biter I watched came straight to attack. Some came up from as far as 20' below the gear straight up to bite.

- Followers rarely commit no matter what. In my experience, dropping the gear or cranking it while they follow immediately sends them off. Never once saw one react positively to trying to do anything.

- There's lots of big schools of salmon moving through. The big schools rarely do anything but pass on by without a look.


- almost every time my gear was at the same level as the fish, the fish moved out of the way. The players always moved up or down, or came into view from the side to attack.

- after they appear to bite on the gear, they seem to swim with it for a few seconds before they turn and you see the rod bury.

- Seems like most of the arches we see on standard sonar are the schools of shad smolts.


Overall: What it boils down to is that it's a useful sonar that tells you if salmon are there.

I’ve had several long time followers finally commit and bite. And I’ve triggered a couple of bites with a quick drop of a foot of line off the reel, but have had many more shy away when I attempted it.

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

I’ve had several long time followers finally commit and bite. And I’ve triggered a couple of bites with a quick drop of a foot of line off the reel, but have had many more shy away when I attempted it.

Yeah I don't doubt there's exceptions to all of these. They're just the norm I've experienced.

Another consistent theme was seeing those big schools of moving fish. They mostly seemed to be swimming upstream suspended, down maybe 15' or so in most cases. But almost every time, they'd sound down and/or move to the side when the boat went over them. Actually have seen a lot more fish in general react to the boat going over top of them than I'd expect as I always said "boats don't scare fish," but it seems especially true for the schooling fish.

 

[manuka]

What was your take on lead? Could you get away with lighter lead to get your gear in front of fish?

I started out at 8oz and ended up a 12. That's what it took to get to the right depth at the minimum speed required to turn over the 360, at a reasonable distance behind the boat. Very, very little current in that fishery. My first time there in my boat, although I did go out there with a guide on the 8/18 opener to at least get a lay of the land.

 

[Wicked_Stix]

All excellent observations. I would like to add the following:

- I have had several fish touching my bait and following it for sometimes over a minute. But they just would not commit. I tried speeding up, slowing down, turning left and right, and stripping a couple feet of line, but could not trigger the bite.

- The ones that bite usually approach the bait pretty fast. I have had a couple of fish that I called "torpedoes" because they would swim fast and straight to the bait. As soon as I saw these fish, I knew the bite was going to happen.

- LiveScope has contributed to a few unsuccessful hookups as I got too excited and lifted the rod from the rod holder as soon as I saw the fish take the bait on the LiveScope. I have learned that being patient and revving up my kicker for a few seconds after the bite leads to a higher chance of hookup. I also learned that revving up my kicker then putting it in neutral results in a higher chance of getting doubles, especially when there is a small pod of 2-5 fish following my bait.

- How important are scent, color, and/or type of bait used? For those fish that followed my bait, I often wondered if I would get these fish to bite if I had a different scent, color or using a different type of bait.

- LiveScope is just another tool in your arsenal. You don't need it to successfully catch fish. Having a LiveScope has enhanced my fishing experience. It also tells me if I am fishing in an area with fish and where my bait are in the water column. I can also tell how big/small the fish are based on the size on the LiveScope screen.

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

All excellent observations. I would like to add the following:

- I have had several fish touching my bait and following it for sometimes over a minute. But they just would not commit. I tried speeding up, slowing down, turning left and right, and stripping a couple feet of line, but could not trigger the bite.

- The ones that bite usually approach the bait pretty fast. I have had a couple of fish that I called "torpedoes" because they would swim fast and straight to the bait. As soon as I saw these fish, I knew the bite was going to happen.

- LiveScope has contributed to a few unsuccessful hookups as I got too excited and lifted the rod from the rod holder as soon as I saw the fish take the bait on the LiveScope. I have learned that being patient and revving up my kicker for a few seconds after the bite leads to a higher chance of hookup. I also learned that revving up my kicker then putting it in neutral results in a higher chance of getting doubles, especially when there is a small pod of 2-5 fish following my bait.

- How important are scent, color, and/or type of bait used? For those fish that followed my bait, I often wondered if I would get these fish to bite if I had a different scent, color or using a different type of bait.

- LiveScope is just another tool in your arsenal. You don't need it to successfully catch fish. Having a LiveScope has enhanced my fishing experience. It also tells me if I am fishing in an area with fish and where my bait are in the water column. I can also tell how big/small the fish are based on the size on the LiveScope screen.

Sounds like we're having similar experiences.

Like you say: I don't necessarily think it's putting more fish in the bag for me. But I am learning a lot about their behavior which is just fun and interesting. Other than seeing fish on the screen to corroborate what I see on the traditional sonar, it's not really making me change much about what I do. It might make me make decisions on staying/trying new spots, but very little I do when I see fish on the screen leads to manipulating them into playing.

Is it worth the price of admission for most folks? I'd say definitely not. Is it another thing to play with? Absolutely. I've learned over the years that boats and gadgets are every bit as much a part of my hobby as the actual fishing. So this is just leaning into that side of things for me.

 

[jcarufo]

Sounds like we're having similar experiences.

Like you say: I don't necessarily think it's putting more fish in the bag for me. But I am learning a lot about their behavior which is just fun and interesting. Other than seeing fish on the screen to corroborate what I see on the traditional sonar, it's not really making me change much about what I do. It might make me make decisions on staying/trying new spots, but very little I do when I see fish on the screen leads to manipulating them into playing.

Is it worth the price of admission for most folks? I'd say definitely not. Is it another thing to play with? Absolutely. I've learned over the years that boats and gadgets are every bit as much a part of my hobby as the actual fishing. So this is just leaning into that side of things for me.

Your initial comment is really interesting: 'I don't think it's putting more fish in the bag for me'. Finally an honest observational comment that is not just hype trying to justify the expense. It appears that 'biters are biters'. To a point, It seems that it doesn't really matter what depth we are fishing. If the fish wants to commit, it's going to do so possibly from a significant distance away. Non-biters are just that, non-biters. Your descriptions about what you are learning about fish behavior I'm finding really fascinating in that your answers and responses to those behaviors can be incorporated even without live scope. The changing of boat speed on the initial strike to try to induce a second, third, or forth, would be an easy addition to a regular trolling program. One thing I do know is that it would make some of the people that join us from time to time, crazy, in that I'm constantly yelling at them to 'wait, wait, wait'. Building in a knowing anticipation factor would probably actually decrease their successful hookup ratios.
I think, if we truly love this fishing thing we do, we always want to learn more about our prey. Live Scope seems to be definitely succeeding in that role. I have to keep asking myself though, is it worth the money to me to do that in lew of just reading your's and other's excellent, honest, and candid reviews. I really love my river time. Heck, I only got to fish two hours Saturday before we were done even without one. With more time, my wife will just make me do more projects at home. jc

 

[Wicked_Stix]

I read a comment online not too long ago that goes something like this: The guys without LiveScope can justify not needing it, but the guys with LiveScope swear they cannot fish without it. I agree with this statement as I know fishing is not the same without one for me. Case in point: My lithium "house battery" completely drained after a couple days of fishing, accidentally leaving my electronics on, and not plugging in the charging extension cord. I had to rely on my experience of the fishing area just to keep my gear close to the river bottom. I felt blind not having my LiveScope to keep my gear in the strike zone and letting me know if there are fish in the area. It was a boring and unpleasant outing for me.

My only complaint with LiveScope is I wish they would make the viewing angle wider than 20 degrees so I can see all of my gear.

 

[Bobber Downey Jr.]

Your initial comment is really interesting: 'I don't think it's putting more fish in the bag for me'. Finally an honest observational comment that is not just hype trying to justify the expense. It appears that 'biters are biters'. To a point, It seems that it doesn't really matter what depth we are fishing. If the fish wants to commit, it's going to do so possibly from a significant distance away. Non-biters are just that, non-biters. Your descriptions about what you are learning about fish behavior I'm finding really fascinating in that your answers and responses to those behaviors can be incorporated even without live scope. The changing of boat speed on the initial strike to try to induce a second, third, or forth, would be an easy addition to a regular trolling program. One thing I do know is that it would make some of the people that join us from time to time, crazy, in that I'm constantly yelling at them to 'wait, wait, wait'. Building in a knowing anticipation factor would probably actually decrease their successful hookup ratios.
I think, if we truly love this fishing thing we do, we always want to learn more about our prey. Live Scope seems to be definitely succeeding in that role. I have to keep asking myself though, is it worth the money to me to do that in lew of just reading your's and other's excellent, honest, and candid reviews. I really love my river time. Heck, I only got to fish two hours Saturday before we were done even without one. With more time, my wife will just make me do more projects at home. jc

Saturday you and I were fishing the same spot and we spoke after you landed your first one. I did not go home with a fish 😂