Look at the letter designations needed for your motor and just go buy a high quality oil that meets those specs. Same with filters, I have no idea what Honda you are running, but the larger ones are virtually car engines turned vertical, the auto filters may be identical and easier to come by.

 

“Easier to come by”. And cheaper…. Anything with “marine” on the label is more expensive but the product inside is the same as automotive.

I always ran Mobil 1 in my four strokes and never considered it wouldn’t work fine.

 

Cabela's. They have had the best price for Mercury oil the last couple of years.

 

Bob Ross,
when I rebuilt my BB I found that there had been lots of failures of cams and lifters in the past 10 years or so. Really didn't want to munch a cam. So did a bunch of research. I found the following Blog . The guys an engineer who developed a way to test the "strength" of motor oils. Basically the point at which the oil film fails and metal to metal contact will occur.

Our boat motors often sit for weeks or more without running. As they sit the oil is draining away from the very parts we want to protect. There is no thick layer of oil. We are left with whatever film is remaining. The strength of that film is what provides protection. And the strength of oil films vary widely according to his testing.

It's not super easy to navigate but worth the read I think?

Just an example from his list.
Mercury has a marine oil that is rated number 8 out of well over 200 oils he has tested. Hondas marine Oil is number 209.

Just food for thought. Enjoy.

540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths

540ratblog.wordpress.com

 

Bob Ross,
when I rebuilt my BB I found that there had been lots of failures of cams and lifters in the past 10 years or so. Really didn't want to munch a cam. So did a bunch of research. I found the following Blog . The guys an engineer who developed a way to test the "strength" of motor oils. Basically the point at which the oil film fails and metal to metal contact will occur.

Our boat motors often sit for weeks or more without running. As they sit the oil is draining away from the very parts we want to protect. There is no thick layer of oil. We are left with whatever film is remaining. The strength of that film is what provides protection. And the strength of oil films vary widely according to his testing.

It's not super easy to navigate but worth the read I think?

Just an example from his list.
Mercury has a marine oil that is rated number 8 out of well over 200 oils he has tested. Hondas marine Oil is number 209.

Just food for thought. Enjoy.

540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths

540ratblog.wordpress.com

This is very informative and the top oil on his list is very affordable. Looks like no honda oil from here on out.

Thanks again!

 

This is a good read too. Don't try to save a couple bucks on outboard oil. Not worth it.

How Marine Oil Is Made | Boating Mag

An inside look at how marine oil is made.

boatingmag.com

 

The last thing I'm trying to do is save money on oil. After reading the above study that llama posted his top oil out of the many oils tested was surprisingly affordable. Mercury was number 8 on the list. Im still trying to decide what to go with. Price is not a limiting factor, I want the best I can buy, hopefully locally.

 

I too did a lot of research and found particularly for outboards run in salt water the very best oil when it comes to additives to protect the engine and also having long wearing qualities are the oils made for diesel engines. According to one study I found they have more protection than marine branded oils. Finding them in the correct viscosity rating may be a little more difficult.

I have had several small Hondas over then last 50 years; 8 to 15 hp, and ran them all on Chevron 10-30. My current 8hp is 20 years old and still running great.

As far as filters go the outboard motor brands are no better than the high quality automotive filters. Puralator works great on Honda motors. The the various mileage ratings on them goes from 10k 15k and 20k miles and PL14610 and PL14612 fit my Honda 115hp and 8 hp.... The same size also fits my Honda Pilot SUV.
They are much less expensive than the outboard name brands.

 

I too did a lot of research and found particularly for outboards run in salt water the very best oil when it comes to additives to protect the engine and also having long wearing qualities are the oils made for diesel engines. According to one study I found they have more protection than marine branded oils. Finding them in the correct viscosity rating may be a little more difficult.

I have had several small Hondas over then last 50 years; 8 to 15 hp, and ran them all on Chevron 10-30. My current 8hp is 20 years old and still running great.

As far as filters go the outboard motor brands are no better than the high quality automotive filters. Puralator works great on Honda motors. The the various mileage ratings on them goes from 10k 15k and 20k miles and PL14610 and PL14612 fit my Honda 115hp and 8 hp.... The same size also fits my Honda Pilot SUV.
They are much less expensive than the outboard name brands.

Are you running Rotella or DELO?

I got a good deal on some oem filters. I may try something else after I go thru these but for now I'm using the oem filters from honda. It seems the honda a02 filters go on many of their motors. Mines a bf100a I also have an 8hp honda kicker which I'm assuming uses the same filter. I had it's oil changed when I had it in to be serviced so I haven't done that one myself.

 

I don’t think anyone makes bad oil.

 

Today's homework assignment. Read Rat 540's tech articles 61, 67 on using diesel oils in gas engines and corrosion additives in marine oils. Please, do your own work and don't peek at your neighbors paper.

DZ, Did you read any of his blog???

Its not so much if an oil s bad, is it better?

 

Run a 10w-30 that meets the manufacturer’s recommended specs.

You won’t get an extra 1000 hours out of your outboard because you ran brand x vs brand z.

I currently run Rotella 10w-30 in my F300 and T9.9. I use it because it’s the same thing I run in my Duramax.

 

Mooch.
How do you know we won't get another 1000 hours????? Is there data????
I wonder if the manufacturers test for actual wear protection???

Until I saw Rat 540s blog, I had no idea which oil actually provided more wear protection?
I switched to Rotella for my duramax from Delo because a friend said it was better. But Rats data says it's not the best diesel oil at all.
So Ill be switching to something more better.

Now Rat very well be an idiot. I don't have any idea? But there are things he says that make a lot of sense. Like, why don't car manufacturers use a special breakin oil? Why do they just start the cars and drive them off the line without any special break in procedures??

the fact is we have no idea historically which oils are better or worse. We all seem to be happy with running Acme oil because coyote said it helped him catch the roadrunner. But we don't really know.
It appears me that most oils provide us enough protection to keep us happy, but not actually the best performance.

Did you read through his blog??????

 

Nope, didn’t read his blog.

There’s one way to definitively know how an oil is performing in your engine. That’s by used oil analysis. Not by taking some blogger’s word for it.

I’ll stand by what I said, short of running some dollar tree non detergent motor oil in your outboard, you aren’t going to ever be able to prove that running brand x vs brand z made your engine last any longer.

If it makes you feel good to run out and buy whatever some yahoo blogger on the internet says is the best, by all means have at it.

P.S…. I’m just another yahoo on the internet lol

 

RAT 540's blog is the laughing stock of the oil analysis world. You may as well ask the Walmart greeter what to buy on your way in.

99.9% of modern 4 stroke outboards will die of corrosion or obsolescence before you will ever see an oil related failure.

 

Not an expert, but my good friend's father was an auto mechanic for about 40 years and even worked for a while for a racing team building engines. He always stated that the main thing was to keep your oil and oil filter changed per manufacturers recommendations and filled up. The rest of how long an engine lasted was luck based on how all the major engine components happened to fit together. Everything has tolerances and if you get lucky, you get an engine that everything such as cylinders, pistons, crank, etc. all mated together well. Get unlucky and get an engine that the individual pieces were in tolerance but did not fit together as well. Another thing he always said is never put an additive in your oil because it can't overcome any issues with a bad engine.

 

Matt,
The only folks I've seen challenge his data are YouTube guys sponsored by oil companies that had not actually tested his oil selections. ??

Does the oil analysis world actually test wear capabilities or just the various deposits building up???

Did you read his analysis of Marine oil and corrosion additives?

And lastly, since we "can't prove" oil A is better for wear protection. than oil B, I suspect you can't really prove Rats data is wrong?????

Im very open to some factual data showing his work is not accurate?

 

Matt,
The only folks I've seen challenge his data are YouTube guys sponsored by oil companies that had not actually tested his oil selections. ??

Does the oil analysis world actually test wear capabilities or just the various deposits building up???

Did you read his analysis of Marine oil and corrosion additives?

And lastly, since we "can't prove" oil A is better for wear protection. than oil B, I suspect you can't really prove Rats data is wrong?????

Im very open to some factual data showing his work is not accurate?

I've read enough of his blogs to know that most of the information is incomplete at best, and mostly useless. He claims that one of the most popular and successful ATFs in the world immediately seized and failed every time it was tested. He correlates cam wear solely to oil pressure, with no regard to additives, spring pressure, etc. He discredits any type of oil drain interval that exceeds 5000 miles, even though his own data overwhelmingly supports it. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Sorry, no credibility whatsoever in my book.

Go search Bobistheoilguy.com, there are years worth of discussions dissecting the BS and testing flaws with facts and logic.

 

Could someone post a photo of an outboard with internal corrosion that caused engine failure?

 

There are plenty of Yamahas around with internal corrosion that has caused failure, but 0% of them that I know of involved corrosion from any type of oil passage or anything from the oiling side. Dry exhaust and cooling system? You bet. Corrosion in the oil side of the oil pan or oiling passages? Not a thing. I’d love to see a picture as well.

HDEOs (diesel oils) have to pass a stricter corrosion test than NMMA oils. Any obsolete API oil from the 1990 would pass NMMA requirements.

 

Mattpark,
Thanks for your replies, generally I think you are spot on most things. Not saying you're wrong on this. Im not a conspiracy theorist. I am a conspiracy analyst.

I spent some time at Bob is the oil guy.
I couldn't find a list of the "best oil" to use. I probably missed it???

So I have 78 454 in my boat, what is the "best" oil to use??? Closed cooling.

 

There's a member there that's in the industry and very familiar with marine engines, especially 454s (DoubleWasp). They live a very different life than a big block in your average pickup truck. 10W30 is fine for that application, but not necessarily for a big block cruising at over 3000rpm under heavy load for extended periods of time.

He has posted quite a bit about his experience with different oils, and has posted a number of UOAs. 20W50 VR1 and Schaeffers gave some of the best results, I think Rotella T6 5W40 was good as well. 30W oils are not the best idea from what I've gathered. Volvo Penta spec'd 30W diesel oils for big block engines, and after a couple of years changed that to 10W40 due to engine issues/warranty costs.

 

one of my favorite channels on youtube

 

Yeah I watch him too. Smart dude.

 

Regarding Project Farm - The fact that Todd submits his oils in his tests to an independent lab and then posts those results in his video is extremely helpful. It allows you to see what the 'real world' unbiased data is regarding a specific motor oil.

If you notice the QuickSilver marine oil has a lot of additives of detergents and dispersants compared to a lot of standard automotive oils. Diesel motor oils have a lot of those additives too...

 

Mattpark,
Sorry, I actually try to look at things from a science perspective, given all the "science" at "Bob is the guy". Should there not be a "best " oil for my application listed??????????

 

It’s not a list. It’s a series of discussions involving certain engines and certain oils, with used oil analysis mixed in for perspective. What you do with your 454 is different, but similar, to some other users. Your 454 doesn’t see the same duty cycle as one in a pickup, oil needs differ.

There is no “best oil” for any engine. You can take the data from certain oils under certain situations and make your own conclusion. Any number oil oils will serve an engine well. The “science” is in the used oil analysis that he has posted. He has quite a bit of information posted about his vast experience with GM big blocks under hard marine use. I just put them in a nutshell.

As I posted above, the best oil analysis reports were from using 20W50 oils. GM big blocks continuously running higher rpm shear oil and lighter weight oils didn’t fare so well. Volvo Penta saw that with their GM engines and adjusted the oil weight accordingly.

If you just want a blanket answer, I’d put Rotella T6 5w40 in there. If you want to spend more money, go with the 20w50 options. The data, or "science" as you say, support either.

 

Matt, I completely understand what your saying.
What Im trying to get is with all the science. why is there not a number one oil for my 454 in my jet boat? Chemistry and physics are pretty precise. Somebody, somewhere, should be able to prove, that this such detergent, this much, zinc, this viscosity etc...... is the best for my application, or this oil is the best for 200 horse Yamaha. Does that not seem reasonable?

But what we have instead is an aisle full of different oils all saying they are the best. We have everyone at Bob is the oil guy dishing on 540 rat, but no really giving any evidence that his test method is not actually accurate?? Lots of "well, he's not testing as it would be used in an engine". Well we test lots of stuff outside its use.

Here's my analogy. We have a bunch of companies that make widgets. they all advertise their wigets as the best. then along comes a guy that says he can actually test widgets and tell you which one is best. so what do all the widget makers do??? They start undermining the guy testing their widgets. Pretty soon you have sponsored YouTubers spewing all the resons the Wiget tester is wrong.

What I have been completely unable to find is anyone who followed his recommendation to use cheap quaker state oil from Wally World, followed his break in recommendations , then had a failure? I can find TONS of failed cam videos on YouTube from folks who used Proper Zinc break in oils.

Then we have the guy in the video above, really a useless comparison other than showing how different viscosity flows. It is pointless to compare wear rates on totally different oils. A useful test would be to get every 5 30 oil and test them against each other. which, is exactly what Rat does. Does that not make more sense??? Why is his wear test more accurate than Rats? It's certainly similar, but this guy hasn't figured out how to calculate the pressure??

As to oil testing. By the time you figure out you have metal in your oil and it might be because its crappy oil, your engine is toast.


There is one thing concerning to me about Rat is that he does not show his test bench? He could go along way if he did a quick video on how he tests.

If you actually read through his blog, which many have not, he does have sound logical explanations for his views.

He comes from racing and his testing was designed with that in mind. I suspect he is subjecting his 540 to far more abuse than my 454 or whatever outboard folks are using. He believes lower viscosity , as long as oil pressure is maintained, is better than a higher viscosity. Allows more cooling for the bearings, get more splash on the cam .

He doesn't believe we need to break in with a single spring in dual spring applications. I think he would have had a failure in his builds if this was not true?

And lastly. He is testing oils that meet all the manufactures requirements. All the required ratings etc.....
Since Bob is the oil guy can't tell me which is the best and can't really explain why Rats testing is wrong, , what is wrong with following Rats recommendations? Oh, wait, that's right, the oil manufacturers really don't want someone to say their widget is not as good as the next guys??????

Doesn't matter to me what folks use. Just posted Rats info to give folks some additional info.

 

Holy smokes , paralysis by analysis. Pick a quality oil that’s somewhere in the realm of suitable and live happily ever after.

 

Yea, the video was completely useless. Apples to oranges. Need tests that compare apples to apples.