I made the mistake and don't want you to pay the price. I decided to go explore some new water and fish the Pipe line hole on the Sandy and possibly look at some holes even farther down if it was o.k. :shrug: I talked to several other anglers that assured me that the access to the Pipe line via the road and trails accoss the bridge from Dodge Park was resolved and access approved. By whom? Several told me the water bureau specifically stated they had easement rights ect....blah blah blah... OK sounded good at the time and was encouraging. :angel: Really I had no intention to break the law. But unfortunately early Monday on the way out I was interecepted by Oregon State Patrol. This was when I was informed I was tresspassing on the Campfire Girls property. He took my information that was going to be supplied to the camp manager who would decide if a citation would be issued! :bigshock: Yikes!!! I did not want to tell the wife :help: I was given the name and phone number of the camp manager and called to discuss the error of my actions but never recieved a return call. I emailed the Directors of the park Namanu :idea: and the responded very quickly. I was very relieved when they stated they would contact the manager to make sure I did not recieve a citation which I expressed my appreciation. When I asked about future access I was denied and told that they are looking for a solution but right now it is a tresspass. I feel lucky and wonder if the dozen or more guys fishing down there got tickets :shrug: The directors told me they are considering the Oregon Fish Club as the solution. The park manager did call me (he was out of town) and stated that this infraction would be treated as a warning but he told me directly that if OSP wrote the citations he was going to sign them. I asked him about permission for access and he said at this time no one is being given permission so everyone who is on the property will be considered a tresspasser. I decided to post this because I don't want any of you good honest ifishers get convinced that it is OK to fish that property. Both parties did make it clear that if the fishing holes were accessed by boat that it was O.K to be on the property to the high water mark.
fish stalker
Sandy River - Pipeline and below - access denied!!
Thanks for the heads up there.I have been waiting to hear for shure about the access.Anyone know about the access to blue hole?
This has come up for the last couple years, I have replied the same way every time. I've fished in there for about ten years or so, and know the camp director, and the odfw guy that he lets fish in there. The state trooper is also allowed to drive in and fish when he would like. This is private property, and unless you have a boat that you are very good on the sticks with, you won't legally be able to fish in there. I go in legally, but see people everyday that don't. They have written tickets in there, and I would assume they will continue to do so.
Basically what it boils down to is that the new camp director fishes, and wants his own private fishing holes. He lets the enforcement officers fish in there, and in return they enforce his property lines. It gripes me as well as some other people who've fished in there a long time, but it is his right as property owner, so there really is nothing that can be done.
Basically what it boils down to is that the new camp director fishes, and wants his own private fishing holes. He lets the enforcement officers fish in there, and in return they enforce his property lines. It gripes me as well as some other people who've fished in there a long time, but it is his right as property owner, so there really is nothing that can be done.
I have emailed the Executive Director of the camp to find out what has necessetated the Oregon State Police enforcement of the no trespassing rule. Hopefully they will be willing to allow pay for use permits or something similar. I love that stretch of river.
Re: Sandy River - Pipeline and below - access deni
Those officers have to have something better to do.
Those officers have to have something better to do.
The OSP told me that there were several issues but the bottom line was abuse. Trash from some anglers (bait containers) and the many young adults that frequent the area to party on the beach at the Blue hole. He stated this is all in sight of the young girls and boys at the camp and there have been problems with drugs and alcohol. He even went as far to tell me these young adults would lay out a blanket and openly do the deed. Several fisherman I talked to who stated they have fished the area for years confirmed these stories. Abuses to the park property - one young adult male on top of the roof of the girls bathroom. You get the picture. I believe you will be allowed to pay and get a permit but it will end up being to the Oregon Fish Club for dues if you want to fish this section of river in the future.
If an OSP trooper is fishing there and writing citations he is unfortunately creating a serious conflict of interest which could bring into question his ability to fairly enforce the law. ie... not citing one of their buddies. So if a person had credible information that is occurring they should call a field supervisor to advise them of the sitaution so that ot can be rectified. As far as the fishing hole goes the state should never be able to sell our rivers which are everyones'. BUT, since that is the system we have we must respect the rule of law and not knowlingly trespass.
That would be a very clear case of conflict of interest if true. If an officer(s) is fishing that hole, and one of his jobs is enforcement of trespassing rules for that area, it is pretty straight forward.
Nobody has to prove anything like a quid pro quo, this for that, it is abuse of power. An officer presented with such an opportunity should know better.
gus
Nobody has to prove anything like a quid pro quo, this for that, it is abuse of power. An officer presented with such an opportunity should know better.
gus
Cohodependent - I asked the officer that question and he said that is correct, but (always a but!) I believe there is the assumption you would need to float down to those lower loacations to gain access. Pehaps that is true for the Pipe line hole but I do not know if the others can be accessed by walking down below the high water mark. I did not have the opportunity to explore the area good enough as it was my first time fishing there. I was told that to get to the Pipe line from the park you have to cross the river several times. Is that true?
If the officer enters and fishes with the permission of the land owner/manager then he is legal and not trespassing.
If you enter without permission you are trespassing and are in violation of the law as it is written today.
Why is it wrong for the officer to enforce the trespassing laws? I see nothing wrong here. :whazzup:
I do not see a conflict of interest.
Do we assume that he is getting to fish to enforce the law and that if he could not fish there that he would not enforce the law. :shrug: I think not but then I have been wrong before and it wont be the last. :shrug:
If you enter without permission you are trespassing and are in violation of the law as it is written today.
Why is it wrong for the officer to enforce the trespassing laws? I see nothing wrong here. :whazzup:
I do not see a conflict of interest.
Do we assume that he is getting to fish to enforce the law and that if he could not fish there that he would not enforce the law. :shrug: I think not but then I have been wrong before and it wont be the last. :shrug:
You only need to cross the river once to get to the pipeline hole and when the water is around 9.5 it is fairly easy. I have never recrossed to get to the girl scout hole, but last year I was up checking it out and it looks as if it could be done below the pipeline hole. Maybe get a 1 man raft and pack it to the pipeline then inflate and cross in the tailout of the pipeline hole. In my opinion its not worth it, there is plenty of good water on the Sandy if you are willing to hike.
it doesnt matter if he is or isn't. perception is everything in the business and if you've ever testified in court you'd see that its not really about the trial but about discrediting the officer. Im not even saying that its wrong just that most cops wldnt put themselves in that position and all police agencies would frown on it and most have policies against it. I aint saying its right just the way it is.
here's a couple reasons.
1.court impeachment, "officer are you granted special permission to fish this hole for enforcing fish and game laws for access".
2. all departments have policies against taking special favors for selectively enforcing the law.
3. It's unprofessional "refer back to rule #1.
4. perception is everything in the business and the guys who stick around understand that you dont do stuff like this. The officer is prbly a great cop like 99% but it's notk right.
5. Im not calling anyone but if I did call supervisor and got no answer Id call internal affairs and ask them to make sure their was no conflict of interest.
1.court impeachment, "officer are you granted special permission to fish this hole for enforcing fish and game laws for access".
2. all departments have policies against taking special favors for selectively enforcing the law.
3. It's unprofessional "refer back to rule #1.
4. perception is everything in the business and the guys who stick around understand that you dont do stuff like this. The officer is prbly a great cop like 99% but it's notk right.
5. Im not calling anyone but if I did call supervisor and got no answer Id call internal affairs and ask them to make sure their was no conflict of interest.
as for #1......How do we know that he is being allowed to fish for enforcement? If that be true then there is a conflict of intrest. I agree that the preception is important. Who has seen the enforcement officer fishing?
What the officer does on his own time is no one elses business but his. Maybe the OSP is his brother ? :shrug:
What we need to consider is this:
We are loosing our places to fish because of the bad manners of a few. We need to figure out how to stop this before it is too late. How do we empower ourselves to defend our privilege to fish and hunt ?
I am convinced that it is a small number of people out there messing things up. Report violations. Clean up popular areas even if you didn't make the mess.
Help the land owners.
Try to see the other side of the issue. How would you deal with the problems if you were the land owner.
Pipeline to Bluehole is gone. Forget it ! You shall not fish there again.
So what's next ? What's the next hot spot to fall ?
What we need to consider is this:
We are loosing our places to fish because of the bad manners of a few. We need to figure out how to stop this before it is too late. How do we empower ourselves to defend our privilege to fish and hunt ?
I am convinced that it is a small number of people out there messing things up. Report violations. Clean up popular areas even if you didn't make the mess.
Help the land owners.
Try to see the other side of the issue. How would you deal with the problems if you were the land owner.
Pipeline to Bluehole is gone. Forget it ! You shall not fish there again.
So what's next ? What's the next hot spot to fall ?
Re: Sandy River - Pipeline and below - access deni
....or buy a driftboat. I refuse to pay thousands of dollars just to fish a few OFC holes when a driftboat or toon will get me to the same places.
....or buy a driftboat. I refuse to pay thousands of dollars just to fish a few OFC holes when a driftboat or toon will get me to the same places.
Re: Sandy River - Pipeline and below - access deni
"pay thousands of dollars "
I believe that statement is a little misleading.
Thousands of Dollars is a lot exaggerated.
Furthermore OFC is an outstanding organization, to the members as well as to the land owners.
"pay thousands of dollars "
I believe that statement is a little misleading.
Thousands of Dollars is a lot exaggerated.
Furthermore OFC is an outstanding organization, to the members as well as to the land owners.
Re: Sandy River - Pipeline and below - access deni
If your someone who likes the lakes and camping and all I can see why it might be worth it. For someone like me who just wants to fish a few local rivers I'll spend a few hundred on a toon and fish those sections for free..that's all.
For a 5 year gig it's thousands of dollars Ab, about $2300 to be exact. By your mentioning OFC in so many of your posts it's obvious that it's well worth it to you and that's fine - either that or your peddling memberships :grin:
If your someone who likes the lakes and camping and all I can see why it might be worth it. For someone like me who just wants to fish a few local rivers I'll spend a few hundred on a toon and fish those sections for free..that's all.
Re: Sandy River - Pipeline and below - access deni
It's sad to think about the situation with our rivers around here. I don't think I am so much trying to promote OFC as I am trying to defend it. Depending on how you look at it it may seem expensive. But it is a mistake to blame OFC for managing some of the properties that have problems and they are a well managed Organization.
In effect you are paying for your right to fish on public land. Lisence, tags etc. not to mentions boats and gear.''
The club offers many ways to pay monthly dues including monthy work parties. Essentially you could go a whole year without making a payment.
But getting back to the problem with the Pipeline hole, don't you see it coming ? We are losing more and more places to fish all the time. Who's fault is that ? and what else can we do about it ?
I know it Sucks but what can we do ?
Fish in groups and confront the people that are pigs ?
Work with law authorities about it ?
Why not get a bunch of fisherman together and bring the issues to the local autorities. Ask what we as fisheman can do to help preserve our rights.
It's not fair that a couple of idiots can get valuable land closed off the the rest of us that respect the outdoors.
It's sad to think about the situation with our rivers around here. I don't think I am so much trying to promote OFC as I am trying to defend it. Depending on how you look at it it may seem expensive. But it is a mistake to blame OFC for managing some of the properties that have problems and they are a well managed Organization.
In effect you are paying for your right to fish on public land. Lisence, tags etc. not to mentions boats and gear.''
The club offers many ways to pay monthly dues including monthy work parties. Essentially you could go a whole year without making a payment.
But getting back to the problem with the Pipeline hole, don't you see it coming ? We are losing more and more places to fish all the time. Who's fault is that ? and what else can we do about it ?
I know it Sucks but what can we do ?
Fish in groups and confront the people that are pigs ?
Work with law authorities about it ?
Why not get a bunch of fisherman together and bring the issues to the local autorities. Ask what we as fisheman can do to help preserve our rights.
It's not fair that a couple of idiots can get valuable land closed off the the rest of us that respect the outdoors.
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