Anyone know if I can buy ethanol free gas in Washington state and where??
sduyck
Here is what ethanol in the gas can do: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boat15apr15,0,2271802.story
Hope the ethanol law going into affect in WA requires a label on the pump, the CA law does not and they have 5% in ALL of their gas now. Neither WA or CA have an exemption for watercraft in their law.
Hope the ethanol law going into affect in WA requires a label on the pump, the CA law does not and they have 5% in ALL of their gas now. Neither WA or CA have an exemption for watercraft in their law.
Why worrie? It's been in the fuel for years and years! If you have a old 2 cycle just add a small amount more of 2 cycle oil to the fuel and stop worrying everyone! ALL modern car and boat engines are designed to burn ethanol.The newspaper article was related to fiberglass fuel tanks. What kind of idiot uses fiberglass to store gas? Let's stop all the rumors and controversy and just get to fishing and driving! OK?
Re: ethanol free gas in Washington state
Europe has used ethanol in their gas for 50 years. Ya know what, if it's OK for Mercedes and BMW I think it will burn just fine in our American garbage. Ethanol is here to stay and that's a fact. GET USED TO IT FOLKS. Stop believing the urban myths and rumors and get on with our lives. Does it get less mileage than gasoline. Yes! Does it harm your engine? Absolutely not! I have worked in the Petroleum industry for 35 years. I have hauled it,burnt it,received and tested it at storage facility's. Frankly, I don't care if it's in the fuel or not. It doesn't affect my paycheck one way or the other. I do wish that people would just use common sense about controversial subjects. Are there a few horror stories about ethanol? Yes. Does that mean that we should believe them all? NO. Once again, if Europe has been using it for 50 years I think we are going to be just fine with it.
Europe has used ethanol in their gas for 50 years. Ya know what, if it's OK for Mercedes and BMW I think it will burn just fine in our American garbage. Ethanol is here to stay and that's a fact. GET USED TO IT FOLKS. Stop believing the urban myths and rumors and get on with our lives. Does it get less mileage than gasoline. Yes! Does it harm your engine? Absolutely not! I have worked in the Petroleum industry for 35 years. I have hauled it,burnt it,received and tested it at storage facility's. Frankly, I don't care if it's in the fuel or not. It doesn't affect my paycheck one way or the other. I do wish that people would just use common sense about controversial subjects. Are there a few horror stories about ethanol? Yes. Does that mean that we should believe them all? NO. Once again, if Europe has been using it for 50 years I think we are going to be just fine with it.
Re: ethanol free gas in Washington state
Good point. So if that is true,why aren't the tanks at gas stations "melting". The answer is that they are not being damaged by ethanol in the fuel. This supports my original point that this is all a bunch of hype. So I will concede that people aren't idiots for using fiberglass to store gasoline. However, I still believe we need to use common sense and get off the "hype wagon" relating to ethanol.
Good point. So if that is true,why aren't the tanks at gas stations "melting". The answer is that they are not being damaged by ethanol in the fuel. This supports my original point that this is all a bunch of hype. So I will concede that people aren't idiots for using fiberglass to store gasoline. However, I still believe we need to use common sense and get off the "hype wagon" relating to ethanol.
Re: ethanol free gas in Washington state
Costco gas in Vancouver is ethanol-free, or so they told me anyway.
Costco gas in Vancouver is ethanol-free, or so they told me anyway.
bugs84 is on the money.
You have been burning E10 in your cars and trucks for years, and somehow, magically, they are immune to ethanol issues? Now you put it in your boat and have a problem, and it's instantly E10's fault? Give me a break.
Ethanol does absorb water, I won't argue that. In order for water to be absorbed in great quantities, it has to be available in great quantities. Your half empty boat gas tank sitting next to your house doesn't count, and no, the expansion of the tank during a warm day won't suck in a gallon of water that the E10 is just waiting to fill your fuel filter with.
I have run on and off road vehicles on E85 and E98 (85 and 98% ethanol). Water in fuel has NEVER been an issue, and we store those fuels for extended periods of time (not to mention the fuel is almost completely ethanol, compared to pump gas being a mere 10%). It's not a coincidence that we have never been an issue.
Ethanol won't ruin an engine. Any gasoline engine on the face of planet earth will run on 100% ethanol with the correct adjustments made (it takes more ethanol than gasoline to run an engine). The worst that will happen is it can dry out fuel lines of older vehicles.
That said, ethanol in gasoline is not a good thing. Corn prices go up, food prices go up, among all the other issues (and phantom issues) that go along with it. I use it for it's high octane properties, simple as that. There are alternatives (leaded fuel), but it is much more expensive to run.
You have been burning E10 in your cars and trucks for years, and somehow, magically, they are immune to ethanol issues? Now you put it in your boat and have a problem, and it's instantly E10's fault? Give me a break.
Ethanol does absorb water, I won't argue that. In order for water to be absorbed in great quantities, it has to be available in great quantities. Your half empty boat gas tank sitting next to your house doesn't count, and no, the expansion of the tank during a warm day won't suck in a gallon of water that the E10 is just waiting to fill your fuel filter with.
I have run on and off road vehicles on E85 and E98 (85 and 98% ethanol). Water in fuel has NEVER been an issue, and we store those fuels for extended periods of time (not to mention the fuel is almost completely ethanol, compared to pump gas being a mere 10%). It's not a coincidence that we have never been an issue.
Ethanol won't ruin an engine. Any gasoline engine on the face of planet earth will run on 100% ethanol with the correct adjustments made (it takes more ethanol than gasoline to run an engine). The worst that will happen is it can dry out fuel lines of older vehicles.
That said, ethanol in gasoline is not a good thing. Corn prices go up, food prices go up, among all the other issues (and phantom issues) that go along with it. I use it for it's high octane properties, simple as that. There are alternatives (leaded fuel), but it is much more expensive to run.
ethanol will raise hell in diaphragm type carburetors that are on a lot of 2 stroke power equipment(mainly primer-type carbs that are on brush cutters, blowers etc), as well as swell up rubber fuel lines. it does have some corrosive properties if you let it sit in the tank a long time as well.
however, as long as your engine is jetted or adjusted properly, i can't see it causing too many outboard motor issues. carbureted outboards tend to have float carbs(like a lawnmower) which tend not to have many rubber parts. if you've got a gummed-up fuel system, the ethanol can cause that stuff to break loose and plug up your jets, since it's an excellent solvent.
as long as you're diligent about keeping water out of your fuel and don't let it sit for extended periods of time with gas in it, i think you'll be alright. i've been running cheap gas(usually with ethanol) in it for years in my outboards with no ill effect.
however, as long as your engine is jetted or adjusted properly, i can't see it causing too many outboard motor issues. carbureted outboards tend to have float carbs(like a lawnmower) which tend not to have many rubber parts. if you've got a gummed-up fuel system, the ethanol can cause that stuff to break loose and plug up your jets, since it's an excellent solvent.
as long as you're diligent about keeping water out of your fuel and don't let it sit for extended periods of time with gas in it, i think you'll be alright. i've been running cheap gas(usually with ethanol) in it for years in my outboards with no ill effect.
my fathers 1800.00 dollar mechanic bil will dispute your comment.
Water molecules combine with petroleum (gas) in your gas fuel tank and lines...
Ethanol has an increased risk of fuel water-contamination due to ability to absorb H20.
(Ethanol attracts and absorbs moisture from the air). Vapor lock and fuel starvation can occur.
The gasoline you pump in your tank may be dry, but due to condensation (from humidity, temperature, etc.) water does exist in your tank. Since water is insoluble in gasoline, it sinks to the bottom of your tank -
As long as it remains below the level of your fuel pickup tube it will not affect your engine. The problem is water is soluble in ethanol and will travel thru your engine fuel system.
A water/ethanol mixture, being heavier than gas, will sink to the bottom of the gas tank, leaving a lower octane gas on top. This low octane gas (lean fuel) can cause performance issues with 4-stroke engines, and can cause damage to 2-stroke engines. High levels of ethanol can dissolve, deteriorate and breakdown solid material, including rubber, plastic, fiberglass and even aluminum and steel.
Ethanol will also cleanse and release corrosive matter (gunk), varnish and rust, which will travel through the engine and clog fuel filters, carburetor jets and injectors. In many outboard engines it will also contaminate the fuel present in your fuel tank.
Ethanol tends to dissolve certain resins, which can travel through the engine intake and coat intake valves, causing sticking and bent pushrods or worse. This has been well documented for boats equipped with certain fiberglass gas tanks, made before the early 1990's.
The more gunk (rust, sediment, dirt, etc.) collected in your outboard engine over the years, the more noticeable the cleansing effects of alcohol will be noticed.
Ethanol's solvent and cleansing abilities can lead to engine failure and expensive repairs.
Stalling, prematurely worn engine parts, rusting, clogging of fuel filters and carburetor jets, release of gunk and sludge throughout the engine, frequent water-contamination/phase separation of fuel, and eventually engine breakdowns and death.
Ethanol can cause a motor to run lean on fuel, due to water will not burn, which will take the place of fuel.
Vapor lock (fuel starvation) is common when using ethanol fuels.
Alcohol fuels are very prone to phase separation, when the weight of the ethanol and water will sink to the bottom of the fuel tank and get picked up by the motors fuel system. (Even small amounts of water can harm the fuel system).
The initial symptoms, (of using a higher than acceptable concentration of alcohol in fuel, is usually engine stalling when you demand acceleration (WOT).
You'll notice other performance issues, such as increased stalling, misfire, hesitation and difficulty maintaining boat speed during trolling.
The long term dangers of ethanol (and other alcohol-blended fuels) are many, including deterioration of parts (rubber, aluminum, fiberglass etc.), rusting, fuel system clogging, and other varied damage to engine parts and components. Older engines are more prone to ethanol alcohol damage.
Evinrude - http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_ethanol_danger_precaution.html
google is your best friend boss. im not calling you guys out, i've just been watching this issue for the past three years or so. after my dads 2008 yamaha needed almost two thousand dollars worth of repairs i became a believer that this stuff is not so good for marine based applications. my dad is very meticulous and anal about keeping his toys in ship-shape working order. very clean and organized. this boat has always had a fuel additive along with a stabilizer added durring fill up (yes the water/fuel sep. was checked and changed religiously) the problem was it was not enough of both to keep this from happening. a family friend of ours who own a marina says he is booked well into winter with people having issues steming from from this e10 garbage. like i said nothing personal, but i think there is a huge difference between an automobile running this stuff vs. an inboard/outboard.
Water molecules combine with petroleum (gas) in your gas fuel tank and lines...
Ethanol has an increased risk of fuel water-contamination due to ability to absorb H20.
(Ethanol attracts and absorbs moisture from the air). Vapor lock and fuel starvation can occur.
The gasoline you pump in your tank may be dry, but due to condensation (from humidity, temperature, etc.) water does exist in your tank. Since water is insoluble in gasoline, it sinks to the bottom of your tank -
As long as it remains below the level of your fuel pickup tube it will not affect your engine. The problem is water is soluble in ethanol and will travel thru your engine fuel system.
A water/ethanol mixture, being heavier than gas, will sink to the bottom of the gas tank, leaving a lower octane gas on top. This low octane gas (lean fuel) can cause performance issues with 4-stroke engines, and can cause damage to 2-stroke engines. High levels of ethanol can dissolve, deteriorate and breakdown solid material, including rubber, plastic, fiberglass and even aluminum and steel.
Ethanol will also cleanse and release corrosive matter (gunk), varnish and rust, which will travel through the engine and clog fuel filters, carburetor jets and injectors. In many outboard engines it will also contaminate the fuel present in your fuel tank.
Ethanol tends to dissolve certain resins, which can travel through the engine intake and coat intake valves, causing sticking and bent pushrods or worse. This has been well documented for boats equipped with certain fiberglass gas tanks, made before the early 1990's.
The more gunk (rust, sediment, dirt, etc.) collected in your outboard engine over the years, the more noticeable the cleansing effects of alcohol will be noticed.
Ethanol's solvent and cleansing abilities can lead to engine failure and expensive repairs.
Stalling, prematurely worn engine parts, rusting, clogging of fuel filters and carburetor jets, release of gunk and sludge throughout the engine, frequent water-contamination/phase separation of fuel, and eventually engine breakdowns and death.
Ethanol can cause a motor to run lean on fuel, due to water will not burn, which will take the place of fuel.
Vapor lock (fuel starvation) is common when using ethanol fuels.
Alcohol fuels are very prone to phase separation, when the weight of the ethanol and water will sink to the bottom of the fuel tank and get picked up by the motors fuel system. (Even small amounts of water can harm the fuel system).
The initial symptoms, (of using a higher than acceptable concentration of alcohol in fuel, is usually engine stalling when you demand acceleration (WOT).
You'll notice other performance issues, such as increased stalling, misfire, hesitation and difficulty maintaining boat speed during trolling.
The long term dangers of ethanol (and other alcohol-blended fuels) are many, including deterioration of parts (rubber, aluminum, fiberglass etc.), rusting, fuel system clogging, and other varied damage to engine parts and components. Older engines are more prone to ethanol alcohol damage.
Evinrude - http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_ethanol_danger_precaution.html
google is your best friend boss. im not calling you guys out, i've just been watching this issue for the past three years or so. after my dads 2008 yamaha needed almost two thousand dollars worth of repairs i became a believer that this stuff is not so good for marine based applications. my dad is very meticulous and anal about keeping his toys in ship-shape working order. very clean and organized. this boat has always had a fuel additive along with a stabilizer added durring fill up (yes the water/fuel sep. was checked and changed religiously) the problem was it was not enough of both to keep this from happening. a family friend of ours who own a marina says he is booked well into winter with people having issues steming from from this e10 garbage. like i said nothing personal, but i think there is a huge difference between an automobile running this stuff vs. an inboard/outboard.
john-deere will also tell you when you purchase anything from them that if you use e10 or higher it will void your warranty. they advise *highly* against using it. why would that be? because they have a score to settle with corn farmers? i doubt it, i would imagine that they don't want to see their products back in the shop needing expensive repairs on something they sold 6 months ago.
Re: ethanol free gas in Washington state
And the debate just keeps going on and on and on..... At some point in the very near future alcohol will be in ALL the gas. So let's all get used to it and deal with it. If your equipment can't handle it then then save your pennys and upgrade. And by the way, if John Deer invalidates their warranty because of alcohol don't buy their equipment! They must still be living in the stone age. Let's all stop chasing the dinosaur (alcohol free fuel) and move into the future......
And the debate just keeps going on and on and on..... At some point in the very near future alcohol will be in ALL the gas. So let's all get used to it and deal with it. If your equipment can't handle it then then save your pennys and upgrade. And by the way, if John Deer invalidates their warranty because of alcohol don't buy their equipment! They must still be living in the stone age. Let's all stop chasing the dinosaur (alcohol free fuel) and move into the future......
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