There MAY be reasons for banning bait fishing on the Crooked River, but More and bigger fish is not one of them.

In the 60's and 70's it was not uncommon to catch fish over 25 inches on that river and 16-18 inch fish were not even worth talking about. Bait was almost exclusively used on the river during those times.

If you want to increase the size of fish in that river the formula is very simple.
1. Require every Pea-mouth sucker (so called white fish) to be retained and killed.
2. raise the retention limit of trout to 10 fish
3. allow no retention of fish longer than 15 inches.

In a couple of years that will return this once World class fishery to a very good one.

I could also add, that they begin to ask the ranchers to return to driving cattle down through the river again, but that probably wont ever happen.

The demise of that fishery came when they began to develop the canyon, and it became a wild and scenic river.

It has nothing to do with what you use to get a fish to bite.

Be aware that when I arrive on the banks tonight I will be armed with, worms, teeny nymphs, and Mike cheese eggs. I anticipate catching quite a few 8-10 inch fishbut none or very few large fish Like we did when they managed that river correctly

 

Very much agree, bait should only be allowed on rivers and lakes that are planted with hatchery fish. Wild trout fisheries..... No Bait!

 

So where is the link to protest this? Angler harvest is not the limiting factor on the crooked. A ban on bait will not lead to more and bigger rainbows.

 

What in your opinion is the limiting factor?

What do you think would lead to bigger rainbows?

I personally think that bait does nothing to help the situation as it increases mortality on any fish released. That being said, it is the inconsistent river flows that do the most damage in my opinion . I am hoping they get approval for the hydro project which would stabilize the flows year round.

 

Yep,

Can't disagree with you on that

 

Ban bait.....if you to want use bait, the reservoir is right up the road.

 

We need to close the Crooked river from Oct 31- May 26. Why have it open during the spawn and try to restrict another group.

 

Im sorry but another bait ban is just idiotic

 

I wonder if a bait ban on the Crooked River would increase or decrease the sale of angling licenses. Would fishing pressure increase or decrease? Will these factors influence ODFW's decision? I bet they will...

 

Allowing the use of bait when there are native fish present is a bad idea period. At the very least I will be happy not to have pick up errant worm containers all summer long. It is hard to believe that the bait fishermen don't harvest (most fly fisherman on the river are not harvesting fish) and have an adverse affect on the bigger fish population of the river. Though I believe the purpose of the bait ban is to protect the salmon and steelhead smolts. I do believe there needs to be more, and a more consistent flow to the river to grow the current population of fish to a bigger size, or as some stated maybe a reduction in fish population is needed if flows are to remain at the current levels. It will definitely be interesting to see how the hyrdo electric plant effects the river, hopefully the spillway issue will be addressed as well. As the high nitrogen has killed more fish than any bait dunkers in recent years...

 

I just got unpacked from the weekend on the CR. Some interesting questions have been posed, let me see if I can answer some of them.

First off my experience with the CR begins in the mid sixties, so I am speaking from 45+ years of experience. I just spent the weekend over there with two old guys who have 60 years+/- on that river and two others who started over there about the same time I did. When we started going over there the road turned to gravel just beyond the ballpark. The only campground with any improvements was the first one just past the cattle guard. There were some spots up below the dam by the cable car where the construction guys had staged equipement during the build. If you wanted to camp you pulled off the road wherever you were and set up.The palisades road was one lane and to cross you stopped to make sure any one who was allready coming had time to get across, THEN you went. Up and down river cars would take turns crossing. I started going over there with my father and the group of guys from Tektronix 9-10 times a season. Later my trips would be fewer in number but for more days in a row.I have averaged 25-30 days a year for 35 years. I have seen the changes wrought by the agencies in that canyon and with each change and added regulation, fishing has gone downhill. I realize "proximity is not causation' but the chance of such a large number of coincidences is at the leats suspect.

The fishing in the 60s and 70s was truly world class. Anything under 20" you did not warrant a size definition it was just a fish. 100 fish days with size to them was not uncommon, and anything short of 50 fish was a bad day. I have seen and caught many in the 25-27" inch range. The fish there did not look normal, they ad the look of the so-called Kamloops rainbows. Football shaped bodies and little bitty heads for their overall size.

Bait of choice was Mike Cheese Eggs, Honey cured, or "Balls O' Fire" for a change up. 1 or 2 #4 split shot or later on 7-9 mini shot to reduce hang ups. Hooks were #10 or 12 egghooks with the new guys going to a #8. Rods were 1 1/4 ounce Fenwick glass rods built by Jim Peabody, If you were there much you would have seen guys with "Jims Rod and Reel" on the back of their vests. Reels were the Quick "Microlight". I took one out of storage and caught a few with them for old times this weekend.

The Crooked River was the first place I heard "Bring your own rock" with respect to fishing pressure. Right past what is now called "Lone Pine" a guy from California would spend the night before opening sleeping on the bank of the river to make sure he got "his" spot right above the big breadloaf rock on the road side. Every year he would jerk out a 25"+ fish opening morning and at the end of the weekend he went back south a happy man. Opening weekend the best stretches would have guys standing 5 feet apart. Bait fishermen outnumbered fly fishers by about 10-1. Although most had one in the car for if the started rising. The fly gus would build in number through the summer into September but the bait guys always outnumbered them.

In the spring and again in the fall one of the ranches from down the valley would drive their cattle herd/herds up through the river. The cows would walk right up the river munching the algae, and eladia (grass). They would stick their heads under water and come up with a mouthfull and munch away. They would run them out near the dam then up the access trail cut down the far bank from the top of the dam. The day of and day after fishing would be a little slow but for the next two weeks fishing was lights out. The river levels have always been goofy. For awhile there was talk that they were yanking the levels around before big holiday weekends to ruin fishing. IO have stood in the river several times and had the level rise 18" in half an hour on a bluebird day. Back in the day when we wore hip boots, you always had to watch the levels so you could get back across without getting wet if it rose. I have seen it 6 feet over the banks after opening day, and where you could cross almost anywhere you wanted.

More later

More later with an edit function.

 

I just got unpacked from the weekend on the CR. Some interesting questions have been posed, let me see if I can answer some of them.

First off my experience with the CR begins in the mid sixties, so I am speaking from 45+ years of experience. I just spent the weekend with two old guys who have 60 years+/- on that river and two other who started over there about the same time I did. When we started going over there the road turned to gravel just beyond the ballpark. The only campground with any improvements was the first one just past the cattle guard. There were some spots up below the dam by the cable car where the construction guys had staged equipement during the build. The palisades road was one lane and to cross you stopped to make sure any one who was allready coming had time to get across, THEN you went. Up and down river cars would take turns crossing. More later with an edit function.

Can't wait for this. We went out there 20 years ago looking for what once was and now isn't...see early editions of fishing in oregon.

 

Next week I will be leaving Portland to fish several Blue Ribbon trout streams in Idaho and Montana, as I have done annually for many years. There I fish only barbless hook dry flies, targeting only large rising brown and rainbow trout. I am not into catching large numbers of fish, a few big ones will do. I release all of them, sometimes my partner takes a few pics, usually of the fish, not me. I am not a purist and I go there because I enjoy this type of fishing, the camping is great, and there are many rivers to fish hassle free. I fish with other gear and methods here in Oregon. After I read this thread and proposal, I decided to check the regs on some of my favorite streams. Many of them have no gear restrictions even on sections that are catch and release. On some rivers the harvest of fish is even encouraged by fly shops. I realize circumstances are different on the Crooked river. In Montana the dams create great trout habitat, and there are of course, no anadromous smolts. Some rivers are more crowded, but there are lots of fish. I'm not taking a stance on this issue, just sayin...

 

I've said this before, but I really believe that it is wrong to tell someone else how to fish just because we don't see things their way. If what we as a fishing community want to improve the CR fishery, we would have a lot more clout and accomplish even more if if we work together. By banning the use of bait, we are alienating a large group of sportsmen who can help work on issues surrounding the fishery.

To say that fishing with bait is one of the biggest reasons this fishery "ain't how it used to be", in my opinion is wrong. There has to be some other habitat centered issues that can be addressed.

Just my opinions, if you would like some ideas on how you can start to improve the stream, hit me up off board, I'm starting a habitat project in the valley this fall...

 

I am no expert but I have started fishing it more recently . I will have to agree with the white fish being part of the problem. I have used bait ,lures and flys and have caught white fish with all methods so the trout are having to share there food source

 

“Whitefish are important to the overall ecology and health of the river,” Lessner said. “They occupy a niche in the food chain and provide food for eagles, osprey, otters and other animals. They also provide food for trout. If you have a dramatic drop in whitefish, you have a commensurate loss of food for trout.”
Lessner said there is a misconception among anglers that whitefish compete with trout and are a “trash fish,” noting the species evolved with cutthroat trout in the Madison and play a vital role in its biological makeup.

This is a passage lifted from an article on the Madison River in Montana. From my observations it seems that the whitefish and rainbow trout populations have decreased in many of the rivers I fish. So, if there is a healthy population of whitefish in the Crooked, perhaps that is a good sign. As has bee stated earlier, habitat is the key to a healthy trout stream.

 

Promoting the goodwill and tolerance of fly fishers once again.

E

 

As for the use of bait, if you are planning to kill and eat your catch might as well use it. Now, if your plan is to catch and release, might want to consider using a spinner...

 

All of the old timers that I know who like to talk about 20"+ trout on the Crooked are all talking about the fishery before Bowman dam and the Round Butte Complex went in or in the few years after their construction. There haven't been fish like that in the Crooked since the rivers (both the Deschutes and Crooked) got bottled up.

 

I would like to see a closure during the spawning season....I would also like to see what kind of affect the dam changes being talked about are going to have on the system...
I don't see a real impact by bait fishing on this particular river, although i don't claim to be a biologist. Seems the biggest impact recently has been the nitrogen bubble problem killing off the trout, and before that recent event i often wondered just how the insect/food was compared to the fish numbers, because in my mind there are a zillion fish compared to how small the river is.....is food competition a source of the fish not getting super big, or just the fact that the river frankly is pretty darn small to have a bunch of huge trout in it.....having said that i have seen plenty of fish caught over the last decade or so that have been well above 16".
And no offense, but i think that the hatchery smolt planting stuff is probably going nowhere and i am not big on regs to protect stocked fish....
I don't fish the crooked very often, but get out there a hand full of times a year, i have seen and picked up a few worm containers and such over the years...but i have never personally whitnessed a bait fisherman or a spinning gear fisherman on the river? Just how popular is it for bait people???

 

I agree with this guy. I saw a couple 20" trout on their redds in a clear shallow stretch of water. My guess is they are constantly harassed...and with all of the pressure I'm sure quite a few redds are walked on. Leaving this river alone for a couple months out of the year to 'incubate' would be a great idea, in my opinion.

I love fly fishing but I get really tired of fly folks trying to 'claim' rivers. While bait fishing may not be the healthiest for the fish, it certainly isn't responsible for any decline this river might be seeing.