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This concept is under consideration for some specific basins that are having healthy returns of wild winter steelhead. This is being proposed by some of the fish conservation groups and is only in the prelimenary talking stages.
The basins referred would in all likelyhood include some north coast streams!
My feeling is this is premature and I would not support it.
What do others think? Please be civil okay :grin:
 

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I am perfectly content letting those beauties go,Lots of other hatchery fish to keep. :smile:

R.R.
 

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If the basin has a history of good native returns, AND a healthy watershed, go for it. Especially if people are clamoring to have something to C&E...keep the hatchery fish to a bare minimum, and keep them completely out of those systems which don't have them already.

Also, keep the bag limit like the South Coast streams, 1 per day, 5 per year. Heck, make it a seperate, non-replaceable tag, with proceeds going toward some very specific program, such as coastal stream enhancement.

OK, did I keep it civil? :wink: :wink: :grin: :grin:

TR
 

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If it is a healthy fisherie, why not sell a special tag or stamp for a limited number of wild fish on those rivers only? The fisheries people should be able to forecast something close so they could close a river down if the run looked poor.
 

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I am not interested in keeping wild steelhead myself.

I am also skeptical that any north coast river, other than the Nestucca and maybe the Salmonberry, is having truly ‘healthy’ returns.

The key is the term ‘healthy’. How many of these rivers are truly anywhere’s near maximum potential? Anyone have some compelling data to share?

Any kill fishery needs to be managed very conservatively. Using creel checks, (like on the Deschutes) the fishery should be closely monitored to ensure that the angler participation and the number of fish killed doesn’t exceed the allowable limit.

If this can be done, it’s another step in the right direction towards managing our rivers for abundant, harvestable populations of naturally produced fish.
 

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My first thought is NO WAY!!! There are a ton of hatchery fish out there to be caught, there is no reason to open up the taking of wild fish, even on a limited basis.

But, TheRogue makes a good point with a reasonable resolution. Kinda makes me think it may not be a bad idea if the proceeds go to benefiting such streams.

Then again, my first quesion on that is, will the proceeds ever make it to those streams? If the do, how small a percentage and is that percentage worth it?

On the other hand....oh, nevermind, I'm done.
 

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I was actually looking at starting a thread similar to this last year after seeing what this did to the elk/sixes fishery for native fish.

I guess I'll make my opinion that it sucked.
It used to be a very pristine river that only got fished by people who would enjoy catching fish more than having to bring one home. It was also a good example of letting wild fish do their thing without interference from hatchery/human influence. I'm not a naturalist, but really enjoyed a place that wasn't filled with guides and snaggers. Well that all changed with the law change of 1 fish a day 5 a year. WHY???? I went one day and saw 20 guide boats at the landing, and then I knew why. They had lobbied that no one wanted to pay and release fish. People pay 150 bucks they want something to put on the plate. I'm saddened by this. There are plenty of hatchery fish around for table fare everywhere in Oregon. Let the 'nates go and do thier thing and enjoy the fight. Oh yeah, almost forgot we went from hooking on average of 9-12 fish a day to maybe 2-3 if you were lucky. Made quite a difference to say the least.

As of a seperate tag, don't even bring it up. I won't vote to pay for another friggn tag to be generated for anything. They've already shown what will happen when you bring up the idea to help pay for hatcheries with an extra 5-10 bucks a year. That got us raises across the board for everything. Thanks to everyone who were responsible for that one. Haven't we already shown how incompetant our government is with handling our funds?? If there was a day where it was earmarked for specific things then I may change my mind, but when it heads to the general fund and you may end up with crackers there isn't a chance I'll ever support it.

I can remember on this board how everyone was lobbying to raise funds to help hatcheries. Where has that talk gone?? It got us higher tag prices for everything with absolutely no guarantee that hatcheries in 2-3 years will change. They pull at your strings and it's like taking candy from a baby. Bring up closing hatcheries and everyone digs deeper in thier pockets for a couple more years.

Just my .02

tc

[ 10-14-2003, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: tailchaser ]
 

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Release the wild fish. The reason money goes to our hatcheries is to provide fish for sport and commercial fisherman. There are plenty of hatchery fish around for everyone-no need to kill the wild stock.
 

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Originally posted by TheRogue:
Especially if people are clamoring to have something to C&E...
OK, did I keep it civil? :wink: :wink: :grin: :grin:

TR
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Careful there Mr. Purple Pants :grin: C&E, very clever indeed. Truce. :grin:

[ 10-14-2003, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]
 

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I haven't kept a wild steelhead in years, and I'm not about to start now. There are plenty of hatchery brats around.

I fish steelhead for the fun of catching, not necessarily for the flesh.

I too, am skeptical of "healthy" runs in N. Oregon streams. Healthy as they were 200 years ago?

--spud-- :smile:
 

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I would strongly oppose any such measures PERIOD!!

There are so many hatchery steelhead on the north Oregon coast and all of northern Oregon that there is no need for anyone to EVER kill a wild fish. There is no more need for harvest opportunity anywhere in Oregon..
We do not need more hatchery fish and we don't need to be killing wild ones.. Anyone in oregon who doesn't have all the fish they want to eat without killing wild ones needs to learn how to fish..
 

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Something I really don't agree with is that some constantly promote wild self sustainable populations, and then continue to offer hatchery fish as "conscious" replacement. When did hatchery fish become beneficial for wild stocks?

I would love to see a healhty population of wild steelhead that can support a consumptive fishery. That way we have what we want: A healthy wild population. Instead we have a century old "mitigation" mentality that promotes hatchery's in lieu of sound management.

[ 10-14-2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: finclipped ]
 

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The biggest problem I see would be applying this to North Coast rivers. The Salmonberry would probably be ok...it's just a darn tough river to get into, although any physical dedicated fisherperson can do it. The Nestucca is just so darn easily fished, it would get one huge bunch of pressure, and the population would definitely suffer immediate impacts.

Fine for South Coast rivers, poor for North Coast, just too much population, IMHO.

TR
 

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I would say give the impending disaster on the South Coast a few more years to fully materialize before ruining additional drainages on the North Coast. TailChaser is absolutely correct. The scene last winter on the South Coast was a tragedy. It won't take many years like last year to completely destroy the Chetco, for example. I counted 42 native fish on the bank at Social Security one day in January after drifting the river--all but a few coming out of guides boats. And, very few of the locals were paying any attention whatsoever to the purported five fish a season limit. Fact of the matter is that it's just better to have possession of any native fish be illegal--no wiggle room that way. The thing that really killed me was the guys complaining about not seeing any spawners in March. Hello? McFly? :rolleyes: Dead fish don't spawn!

Guides on the South Coast got what they wanted; let's see how they feel about the results. Reminds me of the old adage: careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Whatever it takes to keep the "bubba-whackem" mentality from hurting the advances made on the North Coast too is the answer. As far as the eventually moving to self-sustaining fisheries and away from hatcheries argument, I didn't recall hearing anyone propose eliminating hatcheries--just adding killing natives to the menu. Just to be specific so as to avoid confusion, unless I'm wrong, nobody is proposing reducing hatchery stocks by so much as one smolt here in exchange for native harvest--just increasing total harvest by allowing wild steelhead to be taken IN ADDITION TO hatchery fish. Reducing total allowable harvest to one wild fish per day, five per season, and COMPLETELY eliminating hatchery fish in exchange would be a very different discussion. That's not what's being proposed or considered here.

[ 10-14-2003, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Bubzilla ]
 

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This is the wave of the future,less and less hatchery and more and more native retention. ODFW wants to put more emphasis on fish habitat and less on hatchies. Manage harvest on a system by system basis. The new program will be geared to the sportsmans needs,with commercials being a secondary consideration.
 

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Stew,

thanks for bringing this one up.

I have an opinion on this. Me and Shane agree here.

Politics are being played folks. Be careful.

Mark and the purebred spoiled fat dog.
 

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Tailchaser,

Just wanted to say thank's, you saved me a lot of typing.

I haven't killed a wild steelhead in many years, and am not about to any time soon. I can't believe that anyone think's that any of the north coast rivers could sustain much harvest of wild steelhead at this time. Look at the pressure they recieve, now let half of those people keep 1 to 5 wild steelhead a year. That thought should scare the pant's off you!!
 
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