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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What’s wrong with going for C&R on the sturgeon?

It’s amazing how so many people are giving up on fishing sturgeon on the lower Columbia just because you can’t keep one.

The fun and reason for going after them is all the fish you catch. Keeping one sturgeon shouldn't make a difference. If a person was going just for the meat why not just buy some halibut at the store, it’s cheaper and probably better eating?

I only lost a few of my booked trips because most of my clients that booked for sturgeon booked in June but a lot of guides lost out on a chunk of income just because the clients couln't keep a fish.

One guide friend of mine told me about a group of six guys he had booked for this coming weekend. These guys admitted to even having sturgeon in the freezer from last year but since they couldn’t keep a fish they canceled.

Now I know some of you out there wished guides and charters weren’t even allowed to fish for “Your fish”.

I just think about all the money we bring into the local economy.

Yesterday, for instance, I spent $14 on food, 24 on bait, 25 on gas, and 3 to launch the boat. My clients rented two hotel rooms and went to a local bar and restaurant the night before, paid to park, bought coffee and food for the day, had their fish processed and then went to another local restaurant after fishing.

I would guess most guys that come down for a day trip with their own boat don’t drop that kind of change into the local economy.

And besides that I’d guess that before a few guides pioneered this fishery it was mainly a locals gig. If it wasn’t for guides most of you wouldn’t even be fishing down in the estuary for sturgeon.

What are your opinions?
 

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It's not like they're worth eating anyway :sick: :grin:

[ 06-27-2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]
 

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Dave, I agree with you 100%.Thats the reason late Feb/March is my favorite time of year to fish. I get the opportunity to fish for the greatest fish in the Northwest with less crowds and I don't generally have to worry about taking care of fish when I get home. :cheers:
 

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David- I think it's a Psychonotlogical reaction. Even though they could go to a restraunt and buy Sturgeon dinners and drinks for the family for less money, it's a matter of a)justifying spending the money and b)bragging rights about the kill.


Since I'm not a guide, I'm gunna miss all 2,000 of my best friends down there on "no Salmon days" and rough Ocean days. :depressed: NOT! :grin:

See Ya in the Salt? :cheers:
 

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I don't think there is anything wrong with C&R in fact I would encourage it for sturgeon. You should charge more for people who want to keep them.
 

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Originally posted by David Johnson:
.......Yesterday, for instance, I spent $14 on food, 24 on bait, 25 on gas, and 3 to launch the boat. My clients rented two hotel rooms and went to a local bar and restaurant the night before, paid to park, bought coffee and food for the day, had their fish processed and then went to another local restaurant after fishing.

I would guess most guys that come down for a day trip with their own boat don’t drop that kind of change into the local economy.

And besides that I’d guess that before a few guides pioneered this fishery it was mainly a locals gig. If it wasn’t for guides most of you wouldn’t even be fishing down in the estuary for sturgeon.

What are your opinions?
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">What? Non-guided anglers don't eat in restaurants, buy gas, sleep in motels, buy bait, etc?...my partners and I sure do. All we're missing out on is buying a guide's service for the day...and by supplying our own boats, we do a lot more for the boat construction industry than if there were no private boats, only a lot fewer guide-operated boats. And, at the end of the day, even if we could have caught more fish had we hired a guide, I think we feel a much greater sense of accomplishment having done it ourselves.

As far as the guide's role in popularizing the lower river fishery...How can we ever thank you enough? :hoboy: I grew up on the lower Columbia and lots of people I knew fished for sturgeon year round. And they had company from people from Seattle, Tacoma, Portland, etc., not just locals. Now, thanks to promoters and a subsequent geometric increase in fishing pressure, we have short seasons (closed in summer) and 5-fish/year bag limits...headed for???

Your original question about C&R is easily answered: Despite all the peer pressure, reasoning and logic behind C&R, many if not most people will not go fishing if they can't bring home fish to eat. :cool:
 

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That's "psycho-not-logical", because there's nothing logical about pshyco's. "Psychological" is an oxymoron if ya ask me! :grin: :hoboy:

GSA- Dave was not trying to say that guided people are the only ones spending money! He was asking why fisherman in general stop if they can't keep. :shrug:

[ 06-27-2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I started this thread for discussion and I made sure I added wording to my statements like "I just think","I would guess most guys" and "I’d guess that" to show this was opinion. I may be wrong on some of my assumptions, it wouldn't be the first time I did that.

I know that when I drive to a fishing destination for a single day that I almost never spend much in the area.

RichH-I agree, I love fishing that time of year.

MissB-it is a Psycho...What you said. It's too bad it is too.

GSA-You're the kind of person I was thinking about when I said, "Now I know some of you out there wished guides and charters weren’t even allowed to fish for “Your fish”." :hoboy:
 

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Dave, only disagreement is with your last statement.

And besides that I’d guess that before a few guides pioneered this fishery it was mainly a locals gig. If it wasn’t for guides most of you wouldn’t even be fishing down in the estuary for sturgeon.

I started fishing down there 10+ years ago, I watched it go from maybe 30-40 boats on a weekend day to 200-300 boats on a weekend day. When we fished it there was a 2 fish limit and the upper end of the slot was 72 inches. What put the hammer down on that fishery was the cruddy salmon fishing and ocean salmon closures and restrictions. People used to zip right past hot sturgon fishing to go get their salmon, sturgon was a "2nd class" fish.

When they restricted the heck out of the salmon fishing in the early and middle 90's guides and charters were going broke, and turned their attention to the sturgon to try to keep their livelyhood. It was never a secret or a "local" thing, it was just not considered worth the bother with salmon around. Sturgon were the "inferior" fish... till they ran out of salmon... then sturgon were the greatest thing since sliced bread.
:hoboy:

But "poineered by a few guides"... not... It was a well known fishery - just not a lot of pressue - long before that.

UG

[ 06-27-2003, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]
 

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Catch and release fishing is still fishing!

You ask a question and than you go on a rant about how you are perceived. The sturgeon are owned by the people in the states of Oregon and Washington. They are my fish! They are also your fish. To imply you should have rights to them anymore or less than the guy next to you in that gas line is very short sighted. The current rules were formed to help the lower river charter boats even out their seasons. I for one believe this is wealth management. The state is placing a greater weight on that income than that of the owners of The Fishery boat ramp. I will ask you Dave if you think this is right?
The sturgeon seasons are in for major change if not next year than the year after. Catch and release may be the only fishing we have for them very soon, but remember, it's still fishing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No Monoman, it isn't right. And I never implied I nor anyone else should have special rights to them, but some people do....

I agree UG, you can totally see an increase with the sturgeon presure as the salmon fishing fell off. But now that we have great salmon fishing, why are there so many people after sturgeon? Maybe because they are a lot easier to catch?
 

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Originally posted by David Johnson:
GSA-You're the kind of person I was thinking about when I said, "Now I know some of you out there wished guides and charters weren’t even allowed to fish for “Your fish”." :hoboy:
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I could make a remark about what kind of person you are...except I don't know you...any more than you know me.

The fish belong to all citizens equally until reduced to possession...I do not think of them as "my fish"...heck...I don't even like sturgeon. I think a big carp puts up a better fight, pound for pound, than a sturgeon does...probably better eatin' too. I grew up thinking sturgeon are just one notch above the "trash fish" category...still don't understand their popularity...except, as was posted above, for salmon fishing being curtailed.

In my experience it is GUIDES, more than anyone, who think THEY own the fish. Ever been to Rogue River Bay in August? Makes Bouy 10 look like a friendly picnic...and most of the boats seem to have Rogue River guide Assn. stickers on them. Or go up the Rogue only to find guide boats camped out on the better holes...with flunkies sleeping aboard all night to hold the spot? Some of those boats sit in the same spot for weeks. Or wait 90 minutes to take out late on a sunday afternoon 200 miles from home... waiting while a rude guide and his "asst. guides" (after the clients had left) cleaned out five driftboats, sorted all the gear, packed it in the truck, etc. etc. and slowly stacked all 5 boats on a single trailer parked blocking the double ramp? Its encounters with guides like that that people remember and base opinions upon.

Don't get me started on guides. :wink:
 

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Back up the truck folks...
David was posting his opinion--most of which I agree with. Y'all have to remember, he's just a pup, so his memory aint that long :tongue:
I have only fished for sturgeon on the Columbia since 1985--so I'm no old timer myself. I was however mentored by a man who had been fishin' her since the 1950's--Wayne "Let's Play Hookie" Graf.
In the 80's, we still had some salmon fishing, and sturgeon fishing WAS the the lil' sister of salmon. There were a few guides who fished for sturgeon quite regularly (myself included when I lived on the Wind River 2 months a year). There were even a few lodges on the lower river that catered to salmon/sturgeon fishermen that my clients would visit for the lower river fishery.
The only place I would disagree with David's assertations would be in his statement that guides pioneered the fishery. It DID look like that for a while. When salmon was still king, and we had a lower river springer fishery (I fished Longview area, with seasons that usually ran until around April 1st), it was a mere sideline for the average guide. Locals however (and a select few sportfishermen from out of town), had been focusing on them for many, many years for the same reasons we now all fish for them--they're damn tasty :dance: .
The guides however, did open the eyes of sport fishermen through their advertisments and stories of great eating fish. Anyhow...the public is certainly more aware of the fishery today than it was 10 years ago (the "Golden Age"), but I feel it has more to do with restricted salmon fisheries than guide pressure or "awareness" of an overlooked resource based on guided fishing.
Good points David, but I will say that while a catch and release policy does not deter me from fishing--it is nice to be able to BBQ a little fish once in a while. I don't think 5 fish a year is excessive, and would hope that the fishery would be able to sustain such pressures.
Heck, you're the one with the fisheries diploma, however, for some people, the reward is not so much in the actual value of the meat per se, rather it is the ancient desire that many of us possess that drives us to attempt to procure, then eat our own foods. It is truly one of the most satisfying earthly feelings in the world--to be blessed with game to bring home to the fire.
A world in which catch and release was the only allowable method of fishing would be a sad place indeed.
Sorry for the diatribe :grin:
 

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Originally posted by monoman:

You ask a question and than you go on a rant about how you are perceived. To imply you should have rights to them anymore or less than the guy next to you in that gas line is very short sighted.
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">monoman- I think you read the wrong post. Nothing that Dave stated eve came close to implying anything like that. He simply ask why people would cancel out and not pay for catch and release.
 

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I catch and release quite a bit during catch and keep season. Last week down at Astoria we caught and released a 41.5", 38", 39", 60.5", 64", 70+, plus many, many more subleagals. If someone wants to fish knowing that he's gonna have to throw back that 56" than that's just alright with me!
I always thought that there are 2 groups of fisherman out there, the group that pays $ to enjoy his pastime and those who make $ off of the natural resources(even targeting broodstock sturgeon).
That's my 2 cents!
 

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Originally posted by David Johnson:
But now that we have great salmon fishing, why are there so many people after sturgeon? Maybe because they are a lot easier to catch?
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Careful Dave, some people get their grundies in a bunch when they hear that! :hoboy: :grin: :sleep:

Like I've said before, I like to think that all fish are fished for with the intent to be eaten. I don't like to hear someone preach catch and release especially when it's for the almighty dollar. There is a reason for the catch and release of some species and OBVIOUSLY not catching in the first place would better serve these fish. Now if the DFW says the fishery can take a targeted C&R then so be it, everybody's take on this is different and you can't argue and win. You can just state your opinion.

As far as buying sturgeon cheaper than going out on your own, in many cases (like sturgeon and halibut) the price for fresh in a shop justifies the purchase of a boat and the costs associated with the chase. For instance if halibut goes fresh for 7.99/lb for fillet (on sale mind you) and my kid and I bring home 40lbs of meat then I can be happy with my investment. That doesn't even take into consideration the caveman-like pleasure that flopping two or three BFB's (big flat behemoths) :blush: on a dock brings a guy. And you can't buy that at Safeway... :wink:

[ 06-27-2003, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Salmonator ]
 

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Salmonator: Short of the comments on the lack of product at Safeway :wink: , you are correct. You can just state your opinion and hope those that supposedly know better are correct. :shrug:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
"It is truly one of the most satisfying earthly feelings in the world--to be blessed with game to bring home to the fire"-Well said WildHog, I have to agree, that is a strong desire :grin:

GSA-I have seen you get started on guides....
 
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