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Don't know but previous incidents have had debris from Ukrainian anti-missiles and/or Russian missiles debris. I'm sure you're aware when we went into Iraq with 'shock & awe' we took out all of their elect/water grid and civilian loses were like 100,000. The sooner we end this madness the better. Where is the 'peace movement' from previous wars like Iraq & Vietnam? There are N-O diplomatic communications between the U.S. and Russia going on and ALL wars end with a diplomatic resolution or they are fought to the conclusion like what took place on the deck of the battleship in Tokyo Bay after we dropped two atomic bombs on mostly civilian targets. I'm not speaking as a 'warrior' as I joined the Coast Guard and served '73 to '77.
Scott Ritter: We Are On The CUSP Of Thermonuclear War !!! Situation Is Out Of Control - YouTube
 

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Discussion Starter · #123 · (Edited)
Ruzzzia's only allies are Iran and N Korea. Maybe China slips a little in when they know they wont be caught. Kazakhstan, formerly a member of USSR, is now a main supplier of the world's energy needs and despises it's neighbor, Ruzzzia. No country wants to be their neighbor. Imagine the US invading CA or MX with such slaughter and destruction. The world is well positioned to live in peace and prosperity were it not for a few monstrous dictatorships. Subscribe to Kanal 13 to get their perspective. They don't want to be next. Expect1- 2m brainwashed Russians if necessary, to save one man's ego and life..
Instead of continuous nuclear sabre rattling, Ruzzzia will keep sending it's remaining (and their ranks are few) best and brightest young men like lambs to the slaughter.


 

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Don't know but previous incidents have had debris from Ukrainian anti-missiles and/or Russian missiles debris. I'm sure you're aware when we went into Iraq with 'shock & awe' we took out all of their elect/water grid and civilian loses were like 100,000. The sooner we end this madness the better. Where is the 'peace movement' from previous wars like Iraq & Vietnam? There are N-O diplomatic communications between the U.S. and Russia going on and ALL wars end with a diplomatic resolution or they are fought to the conclusion like what took place on the deck of the battleship in Tokyo Bay after we dropped two atomic bombs on mostly civilian targets. I'm not speaking as a 'warrior' as I joined the Coast Guard and served '73 to '77.
Scott Ritter: We Are On The CUSP Of Thermonuclear War !!! Situation Is Out Of Control - YouTube
Thanks.

I think we all want peace; I think Ukraine wants it most of all. The question is how that comes to pass.

I don’t think your WW2 analogy is the correct one. The correct one is the Battle of Britain. Britain was hanging by a thread, and we were supplying them with arms to try to hold off Hitler’s Germany. So it seems to me, the peace you are wishing for, is akin to if we hadn’t done that, and instead allowed Hitler to take Britain. The Brits might have a different idea about the desirability of that kind of “peace”, dunno.

There’s one person who could end this tomorrow. Putin. He’s showing no sign of doing so. My opinion remains that this ends when Putin is dead and/or out of power, or, when he says fuggit and pushes the big red button and we all die. Clearly, at least to me, Ukraine will not submit. If we didn’t send them another rifle bullet, they’d still fight. Don’t know how much you know about Poland, but Poland isn’t quitting their support of Ukraine, regardless. Or Finland. These countries “know” Russia. They hate Russia. They will not submit either. So, I think it’s not even true that American support or lack of support determines whether this war continues to be fought; it just tilts it towards a resolution more in line with traditional American values. Despite what some fringey (cringey?) Americans seem to believe, Russia does not share or represent American values.
 
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Not sure what Reagan would do, but........15,000 Soviets killed in almost ten years of fighting and it helped lead to the demise of the Soviet Union as we knew it.

Less than a year at war with Ukraine and (unverified) 100,000 + Russians killed (so far) is routinely mentioned. IF Putin launches a Spring offensive, many more will die. Especially with a whole lot more Western weapons at Ukraines disposal. I don't know how he or Russia can recover from that. I hope that he (Putin) doesn't recover from his mistake!
 

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Discussion Starter · #127 · (Edited)
And the problem with "negotiating" with this regime is they lie and break every promise they have ever made to Ukraine. Ukraine shouldn't have to give up large swaths of it's most resource rich land to allow Putin to save face.

Funny Luk mentions it, but when Bush was preparing to invade Iraq, Iraq II, I looked high and low for protests to join and I couldn't find any, even in Portland, lol. I had watched Powell's presentation justifying invasion to the UN and it was obvious he knew it was a lie. An honorable man and not a good liar.

The truth is nobody wanted to be seen as NOT supporting our troops, myself included, as some have interpreted the Viet Man protests. I think we have since then just about all of us come to differentiate supporting the troops from supporting US foreign policy.

US and UK oil and gas majors were mapping out the potential reserves held by Ukraine, and this too drove Putin nuts. You see, it was Exxon under the leadership of Rex Tillerson who assisted Russia with arctic exploration and extraction, turning Russia into the energy giant it is today. They had no clue what they were doing, and in the end Putin awarded Tillerson with it's highest medal for non- Russians, "Friend of the Motherland" or some such, And just by chance, look at where all of it is. No it's not chance. Putin knows that US petrol majors can get it done and Ukraine could easily become a key supplier of the EU's energy needs. First they need to kick Russia out.

Oil and Gas in Ukraine: Map. Then overlay the areas the occupiers want the most.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/u3s68n
 

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Discussion Starter · #128 ·
And I meant to add, every week it's like 9/11 in Ukraine. People calling out from the rubble in sub zero temps. Death tol from apartment blocks grows daily. Are we to sit and watch while we spent trillions in Iraq and Afg on fool's errands? These people show the will to fight for freedom, unlike the others, and desperately want out from the Russian boot.
 

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And I meant to add, every week it's like 9/11 in Ukraine. People calling out from the rubble in sub zero temps. Death tol from apartment blocks grows daily. Are we to sit and watch while we spent trillions in Iraq and Afg on fool's errands? These people show the will to fight for freedom, unlike the others, and desperately want out from the Russian boot.
Someone somewhere is always fighting for freedom. Are we to get involved in all of them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #130 · (Edited)
Maybe this one, where we promised them we would protect them, as did Russia. Using missiles intended for our aircraft carriers on civilian apartment blocks? Most of the stuff NATO countries are sending is either outdated or will be in ten years, when it will go to the scrap heap. Again, they aren't even asking for our troops. If we sent our best in there it would be over in a couple of weeks, max. However..................

 

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Laughable that Peskyof denies (as he always does) that Russia did not strike and cut in half the large appartment building, that is was Ukrainian air defense missile debris. The missile that Russia hit it with caries up to two thousand pounds of high explosives. No anti air missile carries anything close to that payload.
Russians if they dare should ask Peskyof how his son is doing fighting on the front lines to defend "Mother Russia"
 

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Laughable that Peskyof denies (as he always does) that Russia did not strike and cut in half the large appartment building, that is was Ukrainian air defense missile debris. The missile that Russia hit it with caries up to two thousand pounds of high explosives. No anti air missile carries anything close to that payload.
Russians if they dare should ask Peskyof how his son is doing fighting on the front lines to defend "Mother Russia"
They lie to the Russian people as well, to keep them in a patriotic state.
The body bags won't lie, though.
Hopefully the good Russians will rise up soon and put a stop to this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #134 · (Edited)
Between cell phone confiscation and long conscription periods, there's gonna be a loooong lag between battlefield dead and reporting to families, when at best, they will be reported as MIA. It will catch up with them, but not exactly real time.
The missile that Ruzzia used on the apartments were of the same type Ruzzzia took from Ukraine in 91 in exchange for "security guarantees."
 

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Discussion Starter · #135 ·
More waves of immigration out of Russia as conscription continues and the trench warfare is akin to WWI. In fact, over 700k have entered Georgia, and although many have passed through to other countries like Serbia, real estate and cost of living prices have sky rocketed in Georgina cities and leaving the locals resentful, broke and driving them to poor areas.
In fact a Wagner commander risked his life crossing "the bridge" from Russia into Norway seeking asylum in exchange for spilling the beans on Wagner's corruption and inhumane handling of it's own troops and prisoners released from jail to kill, ****, torture and steal from Ukrainians. They should give him asylum for 10 years in prison, imo, even if he does testify to what we already know about these thugs. In an interview he gave last night it seemed his only concerns were for his own welfare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #136 ·
Just about all of NATO is stepping up big time. Germany still hung up on Leopards, but Poland and others are threatening to ignore Germany. Abrams are too hard to maintain and train on, but Germany, knowing that, is saying it will release Leopards when we relase Abram's.
 

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I could see a scenario where Abrams are held in reserve north of Kiev to deter another attack from that direction. Short supply lines for the jet fuel. A potent defensive and counterattacking force. In that sense, they could have real utility and if giving Ukraine some Abrams breaks the logjam, so be it.

But Ukraine cannot run a whole seperate jet fuel supply line system to the eastern front. Everyone knows this. It’ll be Leopards. They’ll be coming in bunches- lots of them in Europe.
 

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I could see a scenario where Abrams are held in reserve north of Kiev to deter another attack from that direction. Short supply lines for the jet fuel. A potent defensive and counterattacking force. In that sense, they could have real utility and if giving Ukraine some Abrams breaks the logjam, so be it.

But Ukraine cannot run a whole seperate jet fuel supply line system to the eastern front. Everyone knows this. It’ll be Leopards. They’ll be coming in bunches- lots of them in Europe.
I thought that it was announced that the UK is going to send 12 Challenger 2's to start with after crew training is done ?
 

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They are, but that’s largely symbolic. The UK only has a few hundred Challengers to begin with.

Supposedly Germany wants the US to go first with Abrams before authorizing the Leopard for release (export) from various other countries to Ukraine. It seems that it’s largely agreed that the Abrams is a poor fit for Ukraine. Running on gasoline is a huge reason why (what were we thinking?!)... But if giving them 50 Abrams (or whatever) breaks the LEOPARD 2 logjam, it’s worth it. Ukraine can position the Abrams in the western part of the country where jet fuel supply lines will be manageable (plus they won’t need to move around much anyway) as a defensive/reactive force to deter Russia from attacking towards Kiev again from the north.

The vehicles that appear to be in largest supply, and would be the best fit for the frontline war, are the US Bradley and the Leopard 2. We have Bradley’s coming out our ears. Western Europe has a lot of Leopards- thousands. Both run on diesel.

Bradleys are gonna be plenty potent against the T62’s, T72’s, and T90’s Russia is fielding. The TOW missile is a tank killer. It’s mounted up high along with the excellent Bradley suite of sensors/sights, so a Bradley can be largely behind cover, yet be fully on offense against tanks. Their small bore high velocity cannon, paired with excellent sights, will tear up the Russian infantry fighting vehicles- the various BMP’s. They’re going to make a huge difference. I don’t know much about the Leopards, other than that they thoroughly outclass everything Russia has available in quantity. They’ll be destroying Russian armor that never even knew the Leopard was there.

Get a few hundred Leopards, a few hundred Bradley’s, delivered and in service and Ukraine wins this war going away. Unless Putin goes nuclear, which he might.
 
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