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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Got a call this morning from a friend who witnessed the annual egg massacre in the Nehalem River last week.

What is with this anyway? these guys hook fish after fish tossing the males over like so much garbage, keeping only the females so they can get more eggs so they can catch more fish. Does this make sense?

He told me he saw at least five males floating belly up downriver.

The perps had multiple rigs in their boats so they never lost a stroke. Grabbing another rig as soon as the fish hit the bottom of the boat and was "gently" unhooked and tossed overboard.

Maybe it's time to close the upper main fork of the Nehalem to bait also. After all what's the point? Here's one of the premier wild Chinook fisheries on the coast and fish hogs treat it like their personal egg factory.

Go ahead tell me why I'm wrong. I'd love to hear the reasoning on this one. :mad: :mad:
 

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Never fished the Nehalem, but sounds like a total lack of respect for not only the fish but other fishermen also!!
 

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that's pretty bad. These guys should be ashamed...those are wild fish. We cannot afford to have this happening in this day and age.


HC
 

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Go easy guys.

This is a topic that people should be passionate about, but not to the point of becoming criminals themselves. Ifishers have stood up before and brought about change. Here's another place where ideas can turn into actions. We can rail against what we see as wrong, or we can put our thinking caps on and become the catalyst for meaningful change.

Skein

[ 09-02-2003, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: skein ]
 

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I hope they don't ruin another good fishery.
I got my son into his first salmon on the upper, and I don't want it closed, unless it remains dangerous to do so.

How can we help?

Can we all keep the hotline on hand? Or is what they are doing legal, but not ethical? Sounds that way. If that is the case, how do you get through to these people?

Jen
 

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Those "egg suckers" SUCK! :wink:

No, really, this needs to be put to a stop. Total disrespect for the resource if this continues. :mad:

I'm not for over-regulating but when fish are dying needlessly by someone's actions then something needs to be done. Agree with Skein, we don't need to add to the situation with bloated floaters [the "perps"], but hopefully some timely reports to authorities can help in eliminating whatever illegal activities are witnessed.
 

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If this guy was able to see so much of the bad stuff, how come he did'nt get a boat # or something? Guaranteed, if I'm out fishing, and I see that going on, those guys would be reported and get a personal introduction to my "unfrosted side". If this is a regular occurence
someone out there knows who these guys are. I'm kinda new to fishing "do's and don'ts" but , it seems to me that Salmon are very fagile fish. These aren't sturgeon where two days after you filet them there still moving in the garbage can ( only an exaggerated example of how tough the sturg is, no fish were injured during the writing of this sentence). I'll be out on the prowl with those carrot milk characters and if I see these guys I'll offer them a free workshop on river politeness and such. Have fun fishin, but be nice to the earth... IT'S NOT NICE TO FOOL WITH MOTHER NATURE...or tcm
 

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Weeeellll,

Touchy subject. I have no problem with releasing whatever fish you do not want and keeping only fish that you do.

IF, however, the releasing of the fish is done properly to minimize the effect on the fish.

I've been yelled at for releasing fish in order to keep fishing where we were catching and releasing while others were not catching at all. Some people get steamed.

I've been on (especially) small rivers where I kept a smaller buck to eat and released the hens. And, I've released bucks,(the low impact way) and kept hens.

I'm not going to say that is always a wrong thing to do. But isn't there "wanton waste of game" laws that could come into effect if fish are being blatantly mistreated and killed?

Everyone take a deep breath.
 

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As much as I like bobber fishing, unfortunately I think eggs for bait is gonna have to come to an end. I know many people who keep only hens for the same reason as these people on the upper N. Eggs are like gold to many bobber fishermen and if you buy them they might as well be. I personally am going to quit using eggs. I wish people could be responsable and respect the resource but it has been my observation that for many it is not going to happen. I don't know what the ultimate answer is going to be but it isn't going to be pretty. As for me I have a few quarts of eggs left and when they are gone thats it. Mabey thats all we can do but at least its a start. Anyone else willing to bite the bullet? I'v done pretty well on just shrimp.
Randy
 

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I recently had this discussion with a neighbor in Nehalem who was the sheriff on the water until he retired this last spring. Although it is very unethical, techinically it is not against the laws as they are currently written. They are entitled to KEEP 2 fish per day. He said they had been watching "the perps" for a couple of years now they know who they are and how many fish they keep daily. If they mishandle fish they can take legal action but thats it for now. What usually happens with 'egg hogs' is they will eventually keep too many fish then they get pinched good. About the only thing we can do is maybe ask them politely to handle them gently. Alot you you may know who these people are talk to them about it. The Nehalem is drawing a lot of attention from ODFW in several ways now and there are lots of eyes watching. This type of harvest simply can not support their escapement goals so pretty soon something will need to be done if things don't change. If you see someone keep those dark hens let them know how you feel. If you see them mishandle fish report them. Thats all we can do as private citizens for now. Or we can release all HENS hoping they will make it upriver. :mad:
 

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When will people learn that its just a lot easier to buy eggs from someone who sells them locally and fresh. Say the eggs come from surplus hatchery fish that way there is no impact on the wild fish and the money isn't just going to support gill nets. Its going back to the ODFW to make more hatchery fish. If we only new someone who sold eggs like that :wink:

I mean if you look at this way a female fish has say $15-$30 worth of eggs. Keep a buck and buy some eggs if you need them that much. $15-$30 buck compared to hundreds ( if not thousands) of baby fish.

Now like GRB said I am not against selective harvest and I have been there catching lots of fish and letting them go to keep fishing and watched how mad people get. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If these people were killing fish that were released then the cops should have been called. Why in the world would anyone bring a fish into the boat that they would let go.

Before people get all fired up about closing the river, maybe we should look at all the laws already in place on this river. There is a 10 fish annual limit and a 4 fish in 7 days limit so that would limit the impact a lot these bad apples can have. Plus if they where releasing dead fish there are laws against that. So the problem may be enforcement. A bigger problem on this river is the fish trap at the head of tidewater that blocks these fish from going up river. Stacking them in a lot of these area's so harvest can take place, there is no place for these fish to go and without a doubt this trap is doing far more damage than people fishing. I was up there in recent weeks and saw fish dying below the trap.

These people sound like they were wrong and the cops should have been called. But how many of us have killed a wild chinook in the Fall? Capt. Hook as a guide like me I am sure you and your clients have killed a lot, probably more than a couple off the Nehalem. So are we upset that these people killed wild fish or are we upset about the way they did it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
First of all I do not target dark fish. We do keep what we catch but I encourage releasing the dark ones, hen or not. But the thrust of this is aimed at those who are targetting for the eggs, and the disrespect they have for the non eggbearing fish.

It isn't that easy to make a case on yahoos like these but peer pressure can certainly make a difference. I refuse to justify anything these people do by hiding behind the "well it's legal", argument.
 

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Hook,

I've fished that river for lots of years and have yet to see you there. If you had seen these perps. first hand I would say you have a case. But, taken the information second hand is heresay and is most likely derived from a jealous angler who wasn't on the receiving end of a good bite. Most of the fish that get released up there are tagger sized jacks(8-12lb) immature buck that bite good and will not succesfully spawn. Unless you have witnessed this first hand, leave it alone. By the way, Very few dark fish bite good in warm water. So keeping a buch of dark hens is a bunch of crap. I know first hand because we catch a lot of those fish and very seldome get dark fish unless you get a rain, which is far from the conditions we are having now.

4 fish in seven days is a small portion of a 20,000 fish run.

If everyone was catching fish like the chosen few, this would be a mute issue.
 

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Capt. Hook,

Don't get me wrong. I'm for stopping targetting of dark fish for eggs only. I DO NOT and HAVE NOT done or endorsed that.

I applaud calling attention to mistreatment of fish.

Mistreating fish you plan to release should be, AND IS illegal.

I don't have a problem with someone selecting two fish to keep. Big, small, bright, dark, whatever. I wouldn't dream of tagging some sambos that some folks think are trophies, and who wants loose eggs anyway? Their tag, their choice.

We've all seen pics of some dude holding a spawner steelhead on this site. You gonna flame him for keeping his first steelhead? That sort of thing.

If fish are being abused, drop a dime. If you think a fishery is being exploited and over fished, push for a limit like Scott recomended.

Be constructive.

Peace.
 

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Mr. Amerman makes a good point the laws should be enough to protect the fish. However, I wonder if these people tag fish or conviently lose their tag and get a duplicate without any punches? If they have so little regard for the fish they abuse do they have the same regard for the laws?
 

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Hook........although I applaud the effort, I would also caution the spreading of second hand information. If in fact this info is true, its kinda like most scenarios......its a few that make the rest of the people look bad. I can go to the salmon river and catch 2 fish on a bobber and the first thing people will say is those were snagged fish. I feel that second hand info (Rumors) are speculative at best. Unless I saw it first hand, I would most likley conclude that someone got bent because they werent getting fish and someone else was. To be an angler who has it "dialed in" comes with its costs. You get harrassed by the game officials more, you get stereotyped by other anglers,and on and on. I agree with what Lund says.......its heresay until I see it myself. Last year as a matter of fact, on the nehalem I was fishing in a boat with 4 other people and we were catching quite a few fish. we were releasing the smaller fish as well as dark fish. after about the 20th fish we were accused of "Hen Hunting"......blah blah blah.....as the story concluded we rolled up next to that boat and showed them that we in fact had 8 bucks and 2 hens......all mint bright. A couple of people here might get their noses bent hearing this because they are ifish members . In short they only got I think 1 or 2 fish all day, and were assuming something that was completley incorrect, therefore were jealous because they couldn't figure out how and why we were getting bit. If they were to have gone home and talked to their friends they would have probably said that we were "Hen Hunters" , if we hadn't shown them the truth. then there might have been a post on ifish much similar to this one.
Please consider the facts here and understand that the few dont make up the majority. This is one of my favorite rivers to fish and would hate to see it closed due to a few stupid people. 95 out of 100 fish that I intend to release never see a net. If they are hooked in the lip , I reach over the boat and remove it with pliars or cut the leader therefor lessening the likleyhood of damage to the fish. Use common sense and most of the time you will be fine.

Also : I buy 100 or so lbs of eggs a year for fishing. It costs me 600.00 - 800.00. I think that it is a great way to have eggs on hand to fish with. Scott Amerman has great fresh eggs for sale and if you dont want the hassle of curing them, buy the cured pruduct. you know they catch fish.

John

[ 09-02-2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Fishin Magician ]
 

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Lund or 'team chosen few' glad to hear you have been doing well as have I. Harvest any nice bucks lately? Part of the problem is its not just 4 fish its 4 fish X 3 buddys X 4 other buddys X ???. If all they are killing is hens its a problem. You could not be more off base with your assumption that if all were doing so well as 'the chosen few' no one would be complaining. Most ifish members are very concerned with the rescource. This is a very fragile strain of fish that has a lot of obsticles to overcome. Bring your roe back from Alaska and let your Nehalem fish go. You have the right to harvest as you see fit no one is questioning that but how long do you think the Nehalem will be able to sustain the current harvest levels? My guess is since they have been doing surveys for 3 years now it will not be long until something is done. Maybe artificial lures only??????

[ 09-02-2003, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: First Light Bite ]
 

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I guess that guys that catch a lot of fish cant possibly care about the survival of the species..... :shrug:

Originally posted by lund:
I have fished these fish for 15-20 years and there is no other run like it in the NW. They come in chrome and go right up the river to vernonia & tributaries beyond. What make these fish so hardy is they size and shape of these fish is purportioned to the water they have to travel in. Basically none. A 30 lb fish is huge one for this run 12-18 is average. They have done well for years and numbers seem to be consistent if not improving. These summer fish enter the river in late July and continue through September. Most fsih will travel so fast that the average angler never even gets a shot at them. This is why they've done so well, they will evolve so long as man has little interference with it.

This is my reason for posting this thread. Now all of you have a little idea of how the run works.

We have a huge problem. ODFW has a fish trap located at the head oif tidewater & It is absolutely having a negative impact on the fish. These fish Come in fast and need to go up fast to get where they need to go. This fish trap only has small capabilities and is holding-up the run in one hole where death and disease is eminent. Almost all of these fish that are stacked in the hole should of gone through already and every day they get held back is another day their physical capabilities fade. These salmon are a one of a kind.

THEY ARE ALL NATIVE AND SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE.

Contact person for this is .........

Hall Weaks 541-867-4741
He is the person at ODFW in Newport who is in charge if the program to tag and release fish
It is all part of A Canadian Fisheries Treaty.
They want to know how many fish go up river. In a few years there will be none if it is not stopped.

Jim Erickson knows lots about this program and he could help to resolve this quickly. C'mon Jim help out your home river. Get this trap out of the river.
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