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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bumped into Dave from Siletz Moorage yesterday in Depoe Bay and we were comparing notes. He is rather concerned along with me about a lack of nooks in the Siletz. The Salmon River is very slow also for this time of year.

Are they late or is it going to be a dissapointing year on the Silet and Salmon rivers?

If you were to factor in the Thanksgiving flood of 1999 that would effect the 4 year old class of wild chinooks this year and 4 and 5 year old chinook make up the majority of any given chinook run on the north coast.

When I asked Dave about the size of the chinooks on the Siletz, he said the 20# class seemed to be missing. That would be 4 year old chinook.

Sure tides make a difference but the chinook are late and will come in regardless of rain that we usually don't get until October anyway if we are lucky.

The Salmon River is about 50/50 hatchery/wild where as the Siletz is 100% wild chinook.

The Salmon River has been real sporadic also with it being real slow for the most part.

Makes you kind of wonder. The Thansgiving flood of '99 was a big one and I hope we are not seeing the results. You can't compare the awesome ocean chinook fishery we had this year with what might take place in the ocean because most of those stocks harvested out there were from southern Oregon and northern California.

Guess we'll know pretty soon.

:shrug:

Dan
 

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I too have noticed the decline in fish for the Siletz river. I remember I could count on one bite per weekend, but now that would be a good day. It seems less fish are caught, with the increased effort...
 

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Dan, I have to agree with you so far on the Salmon. From what i have heard and seen the fishing is real slow for this time of the year. There has not been many fish over 20 lbs either. I think the tides also could be part of it.
 

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James,
let me be the first to say congrats on making the Hog Pen in STS. That was a nice fish. Won't be long and FNF will be posting more of those B runs.
Bill
 

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I would lay blame on Boise Cascade when they took the dam out of Valsetz. odfw should have not let them do it.
I agree. :hoboy: :whazzup:
:hoboy: :whazzup: :hoboy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What does the Valsetz dam have to do with anything. That thing has been gone for many years now. What am I missing???
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I am wondering what I am missing also? :shrug:

I admittedly don’t know anything about the Valsetz dam. When was it removed?
The Siletz has had great runs every year for many years now and might be at historical numbers. Might even be a good one this year also but isn’t looking very good at this stage of the game. Hopefully they are just running late.

What is your reasoning regarding the dam removal? Would that have possibly prevented some of the massive flooding that occurred and made for more successful spawning? Inquisitive minds want to know. Usually the lack of dams help but as I said I don’t know anything about the Valsetz dam.

The Salmon River has seen improvement the last several days but don't think it is up to par either.

Dan
 

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Valsetz Dam? Guys, I don't think that had anything to do with the run this year. Actually over the years I have noticed that the Siletz has become so much more croweded than in years past. Used to be a trolling show. Now your lucky enough to troll anyplace from before Duck Point up river to Windy Bend. Some days the hog lines are so thick and spread out you fight to get through. Also have noticed an increase of bigger and more powerful jet sleds on the river. I don't think the ODFW plants any fall chinook in the Siletz. Most of the chinook are native. We simply can't continue to harvest this little river year after year without some kind of restrictions for fall chinook harvest on the lower river. The whole bay is silted in almost up to the bridge at 101. In low tide you have to really watch your position in the channels below the bridge. Couple that with the increase of seals at the mouth of the Siletz and all the fishing pressure is upriver starting at the Boat Works. Even the boat ramp below the bridge is useless at low tide. I am by no means an expert on the Siletz but I have seen many changes on that river over the years. Again, removal of the Valsetz Dam is not the problem here. Floods of 96 and 99 hurt and we are seeing the effects of them (99) this year.
 

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I have fished the river for a long time and have seen the runs improve just about every year. This year is no exception. The fish have better ocean conditions than they've had for years and appear to be staying out longer than normal. When they came in last year they were late sept. before big numbers came in. This year the tides are a little later in the year and I think after this weekend of good tides it will be good next week. If no fish show by early next week then maybe reason to worry a little. As for now the run in the Siletz is as strong or stronger than it has ever been. The system has fish all the way through it to the town already. And the run has just started to enter the river. In a month there will be fish throughout its 15+ miles of tidewater with lots of holes holding hundresds of fish. Last year I was told that the upper river looked like a picture of an Alaska river full of spawning salmon , literally thousands of them doing their job.

" no fishery will ever be damaged with a rod and reel. Only 10% of all fish that enter a system will bite. Predators will get a few, but at least 75% that enter a system will successfuly spawn.

look at the columbia river chinooks. how many of those made it past all those nets and fishermen. We can't even come close to having an impact on this fishery.

Last year over twenty thousand chinook made it up the nehalem to spawn and it gets as much if not more pressure from anglers than the Siletz.

One more example would be the Tillamook rivers that get lots more pressure in a lot smaller rivers with only a few miles of shallow tidewater to protect them. And those rivers manage good numbers every year.
 

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Mr. Lund has some good points. Lets all hope the fish are a bit late. I DO get a bit nervous when a run show up late...seems like a small run size and "lateness" can go hand in hand sometimes.

It's obvious that ocean condition have been good lately, so I think it's too early to give up hope.

I did check my records from last year and I noted that I already had made a successful trip or two with Grant Scheele by this time in tidewater.


think positive!


HC
 

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Insofaras crowds are concerned, we had a similar trend on one of our local rivers up here in Grays Harbor......the Humptulips. The "hump" is similar in size, length and geology.
It has long been locally famous for quality chinook fishing.........big bright fish; not unlike the siletz. Then, In the early 90's it really got discovered by the masses and especially guides. There were guides from OREGON coming all the way up here to fish this little river. Nothing against oregon guides.......my point is that it's popularity was becoming interstate. Sadly, it was WAY overcrowded and overharvested. Pathetic actually.

Now, we are approaching a decade with no king retention. The snaggers still prevail, the harvestable batch goes to the tribes and the honest sportsmen watches on the sidelines as the run still teeters on the brink. We even have a hatchery to help but the trend is not good.

Maybe you all can learn from our wildlife dept's mistake of acting too little, too late (the norm for them)
 

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I know of several people who did well three weeks ago and it is a low time in the run right now. As for Eric's comparison to the Hump., You could not be farther from the truth. The Siletz has never in the last 30 years had a legal set or gillnet it it's waters for commercial harvest. Now there have likely been the occasional ignorant to have his trial at night time netting, but nothing as far back as I am alive that was legal. So as for comaring the rivers , not a comarison at all. The hump is netted in tidewater by natives. In the late 80's and early 90's we all remember the el nino or indian summers. Those 4-6 years of droubt didn't stop natives from netting the tidewater portions of the hump to extinction or close. That is why you have no fish in the Hump for a 4 year cycle. The Siletz however had very light to non existant presure for all but the last 6-8 years. We have seen 2-4 cycles of fish that have made it through the 96-99 floods, moderate to heavy fish ing pressures, and all of these things working against the fish they did well. Throw in a gillnet and you have a major problem in a small river that holds all its run in tidewater.

I wrote it b4 and will again...

"A river of this size could never be damaged by a rod and reel"
 

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I don't respond or use this board much, but Lund knows what he is talkin' about. If anyone can catch fish more effectively than anyone else it is he. He knows what he is talkin' about, concerning this matter.
 

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Has anyone talked to ODFW about the Siletz or Salmon rivers.? I'd be interested in thier take if it were more than just a simple report of angler hearsay.

I dont think anyone can pinpoint a "cause" of the poor numbers that reach the inquiring minds on the bank, but I will agree that the numbers are not as significant as years past.

More boats doesnt exactly mean more fish in the water, nor does it mean more will bite. if 50 boaters report 100 fish a day we all say its as good as it can get, but if 200 boats record 100 fish its a poor fishery?

Theres no doubt every mentioned possible cause of the reduced numbers compounds the concern.
Great ocean conditions, no rain, warm river temps, ample food supply in the ocean, weak tides...
Someone mentioned "3 weeks ago" was good...the moon was full three weeks ago too, and I believe the moon has a significant effect on more than just the tides.

The floods of 99 is a good question too, but wouldnt this have an effect on fish spawned 4 years ago rather than three year olds? Theres no doubt the more the headland water area continues to be logged and excavated, the more silting over of reds is going to occur and I cant help but think there needs to be equal condsideration given to a LACK of rain 3 and 4 years ago and if when the rains finally came, they came in a way that flooded the rivers with silt and suffocated reds/killed juvies. Thanksgiving flood of 99, how much rain did we have prior to it?

96 seemed like a far more violent rise in the water, I lived on the 12 mile marker and had to swim home to a house that had never flooded in 15 years. (nor since)
But 2000 the fall nook season was not notably poor compared to previous years.. :shrug:
 

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Boise Cascade not unlike other Lumber companies(weyerhaeuser)(who filled in most of their mill ponds) quickly filled or drained watersheds(Valsetz Lake was actually a Mill Pond which was known for its Bass fishery) before they became responsible for wildlife enhancement. As far as the siletz goes I have fished the upper gorge since I was a small boy and without the dam the water levels have lessened to the point of a trickle in places in the summer time this never happened when the lake was in place. the lake was there for many years and fish spawned in the lake as well as the north fork. When they drained the lake they just pulled the plug and all the bark and crap came down the river with it changing the river bottom forever. I hardly even recognize it any more. We used to drift the upper river down to the ladder try that now days Grant.

[ 09-25-2003, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Gary Wolfer ]
 

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I like it better now. Rivers are better than fake lakes and I am sure that adronamous fish feel the same. The upper Siltetz was never meant to be floated by man. Sorry about you loss Gary.
 
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