Where the heck is that popcorn emoji....

 

What ever you do ... I mean what ever you do. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT get an open bow boat.
Just kidding ! I wouldn't hesitate if you need the deck space.
I can't answer all your questions but check out Raider Boats.. they are a workhorse no frill boat that will get the job done very well and are built tough. You will get a lot of opinions, but it won't cost to look unless of course you pull the trigger.
I run a 23x84 coastal hard top and love it. It will handle big water with the best of them. The builder is great to work with as well.

Good luck with your quest. Sorry about the generic answer to your question.
Randy

 

What ever you do ... I mean what ever you do. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT get an open bow boat.
Just kidding !

Haha, I love my less than 12" deep open bow with a big cooler mounted up there. I call it the halibut throne. I jig up there and the wife jigs in the back and we stay out of each other's way. The big cooler is also my poor man's fish box since the boat doesn't have a fish box. With a big enough fishing deck I would give up the throne for a closed bow.



Why are Raiders or any other brand of boats great offshore boats? What makes them handle the big water bigger than other brands?

 

Just because I’m sitting here watching football I’ll give my .02, but I’ve only owned the two boats in my .sig. the 16’ Sea Runner has been on the ocean maybe 15 times, and the 20’ ProV a half dozen. Ironically I’ve been in much rougher stuff in the smaller Sea Runner.

I think the very first thing folks will say is that the open bow on virtually all windshield style aluminum boats is a liability on the ocean. If one accepts that, then it’s a question of how much of a liability.... it would seem pretty undeniable that a smaller bow well is better, and the foreward-aft placement of the windshield pretty much defines how big it can be. So, I’d personally avoid the boats with the windshield way aft and a large bow well. The flipside is, the windshield placement also defines the helm position, and the further forward, the tougher the ride in the front seats.

The second consideration is how quickly can whatever size bow well a boat has drain a snootfull of water. Big scupper holes are best. They are easy to enlarge on single-wall bow wells but on most newer boats the bow well walls are boxed in with a drain tube arrangement. It should be a big tube.

And finally on the topic of bow wells, the well should be bulkheaded from the rest of the boat... water in the bow well should not have any way to ever reach the bilge pumps.

I’ve noticed that smaller, older Alumawelds are not good as far as all the above so you probably have a good example of what NOT to look for on hand. They have relatively big wells; tiny drain holes; and water flows easily from the well back into the hull.

I think an aluminum ocean boat should be at least 20’ long.

I don’t have an opinion on offshore brackets vs. splashwell other than if you have a splashwell it needs to be done right. The splashwell on my ProV works great and has a full-height bulkhead to keep water from a rear hit out of the hull. However, I’ve never pushed my luck with it. The two scenarios it can matter, I’m told, are getting caught from behind by a wave on a snotty bar crossing, or, back trolling into chop waves. I’ve done a little back trolling, it’s a strange feeling thing to do, but an offshore bracket would be superior if that’s a big part of the plan...

For what it’s worth the guys I bought my boat from replaced it with a 21’ Sea Runner hard top.

If I had $100k to spend I’d be looking really hard at used pilot house style boats in the 24’ range....

 

I’ve noticed that smaller, older Alumawelds are not good as far as all the above so you probably have a good example of what NOT to look for on hand. They have relatively big wells; tiny drain holes; and water flows easily from the well back into the hull.

I redid the front of the boat, the stupid canvas flap under the center window was replaced with a piece of sealed aluminum, I added 2 1 1/2" scupper flappers (might add 2 more), and a big cooler to the bow. We put a rigid box on wheels in between the dashes and it makes a great step, we don't need unrestricted walk through and if we go open bow on the next it will be a pretty shallow open bow with a cooler living up there full time.

Your best answer probably is to look around Juneau - Alaska and see which boats are around you.

50% of the new boats in the 18-22' range are Hewescraft and we don't even have a dealer in town. Then it's a little bit of everything else without a close second though I'm going to keep more of a tally. Hewescraft seems like a really easy proven option. Raiders do look nice and I like how the sides are a lot higher than most other brands.

Another vote here for a Tolman, especially since fuel economy is a concern. They were designed for Alaskan waters.

I've thought about building the next boat. I'm half way through the Tolman book right now and then an aluminum boat building book is the next read. I haven't ruled out building with wood but the idea of sanding epoxy for days doesn't sound fun and I own almost 0 wood tools. There are a lot of shallow rocks and junk everywhere in the water up here, you are constantly dodging trees floating in the middle of nowhere. The durability of aluminum is why it's so popular up here.



I have a lot more metal working tools and experience. Still on the fence of buildings vs. buying. Also buying an unrigged hull is an option after dealing with the cobble job on the current alumaweld. I've worked on enough industrial equipment and desert race cars to do a decent rigging job.

 

Your best answer probably is to look around Juneau - Alaska and see which boats are around you. In the PNW, when I was looking. I called every boat dealer and asked them what is the most common - sold boat for the PNW, than I described to them, what I wanted to do, and how often. They all said buy the boat that I have, find the brand that works for you. I fish the open ocean, Sound, lakes and rivers with a 21' Thunder Jet 21' OB OS with a 70 gal tank. My buddy, a die hard ocean tuna fan does it all in a 22' NR boat.

My boat, it is not perfect, and some of the offshore die hard folks say it won't work. (So far it has). Those in the Puget Sound region know it can get nasty in the straight and beyond, so it's a bit bigger for those bad winder days, and then there's the lakes - small rivers and every where else, and it's at times a bit too big, yet it works for for these tight situations. So that's how I determined what to buy.

 

Your best answer probably is to look around Juneau - Alaska and see which boats are around you. In the PNW, when I was looking. I called every boat dealer and asked them what is the most common - sold boat for the PNW, than I described to them, what I wanted to do, and how often. They all said buy the boat that I have, find the brand that works for you. I fish the open ocean, Sound, lakes and rivers with a 21' Thunder Jet 21' OB OS with a 70 gal tank. My buddy, a die hard ocean tuna fan does it all in a 22' NR boat.

My boat, it is not perfect, and some of the offshore die hard folks say it won't work. (So far it has). Those in the Puget Sound region know it can get nasty in the straight and beyond, so it's a bit bigger for those bad winder days, and then there's the lakes - small rivers and every where else, and it's at times a bit too big, yet it works for for these tight situations. So that's how I determined what to buy.

Pretty sure that Aaron/PharmDoc's old boat was a 21' TJ and holy crap, that boat is big water capable, open bow and all. I have no idea how it handles on decent days. I think he only calls me when no one else will go.:wink:

 

You are in Alaska what about a 22' tolman Jumbo. Custom built using alum. For PNW fishing in the ocean Pilot house all the way. Single/kicker vs. twins boy that ones tough. I chose single/kicker option.
My preference is splashwell. A 22' boat with bracket, go with a 24' boat with splashwell, you get then the full stability of a 24' boat. Full height splash well.
I built 27', if I would have went with bracket boat would have been about 25'.

 

What most of these aluminum boats mentioned lack is some sheer, and I don’t really get why. Take a look at seasports, C-dories, Baja bayrunner, and ospreys for examples of sheer. That said, Kingfisher sure makes a good looking aluminum boat with the qualities your looking for.

 

Another vote here for a Tolman, especially since fuel economy is a concern. They were designed for Alaskan waters.

 

Tolman probably a great choice but I’m assuming he wants Alum cause there are a lot of rocks up here. Specifically rocky beaches


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have owned 3 aluminum boats that meet your specs. First 2 were soft top boats, never again. Any time you get in sloppy seas they are going to leak to one degree or another and it isn't fun. Hard top boats are also a little heavier and that makes them ride better in significant chop.

Second priority for me is sufficient room in the cabin for comfort but a big deck for fishing. We fish A Lot, Halibut Salmon Tuna mostly, and I really want a good sized deck for fishing. This precludes many of the "smaller" boats (like I used to own). My current boat is a 24' NR Seahawk Hardtop and I like it a Lot!

Only time I was Ever concerned about water coming into my boat was fishing the Columbia River in the gorge by Boardman, heavy wind came up, taking water over the front and slopping over the back, then the bilge pump got clogged with a small chunk of monofilament. Never again for a splash well boat for me... Offshore brackets offer better handling, smoother ride, and (in my opinion) a much safer dryer ride.

I love the small open bow on my Seahawk Hardtop. Great if you ever want to anchor, I fish Tuna from up front A Lot. Never worry about filling it up with water and losing steerage; in my decades of fishing the salt this has never happened to me.

Your criteria:

-Minimum length vs. preferred length? 24' is a very handy length in terms of ride, capacity and fishing deck if it fits your garage and your budget. My Seahawk HT is registered at 26'2" which (legally) includes the offshore bracket, reason being I can return over a 26' bar restriction if it feels safe to me.

-Splash well vs. Extended transom vs. Bracket Already answered this one. The only 2 items I would absolutely not compromise on are it Needs an Offshore Bracket and it Needs a Hard Top
-Beam
-Bottom Width
-Deadrise
-Reverse Chine vs. Single Chine
-Side Height All these items are lumped together for me, sure they make a difference around the edges, most of the quality boats that come with a Hard Top and an Offshore Bracket will suffice. Pay attention to Deadrise if you plan to run in much choppy water. Not on your list, but Any boat you purchase should have Trim Tabs, they allow you to run faster in rougher water by keeping the bow down a bit eliminating heavy pounding.

-Fuel Capacity Depends on how far you want to safely run between fill ups. My 24' Seahawk has 108 gallon tank, really like that although I have never pushed that much usage yet.
-Minimum/ Maximum Horse Power My Seahawk has a 300 HP Suzuki, more than necessary but not bad. For a boat in the range you are looking at I would recommend somewhere between 225 and 300 HP
-Single with kicker Vs. Twins I am partial to Single with kicker, better cost, better fuel efficiency, less weight. The twins are easier to maneuver if docking is tricky.
-Shallow open bow vs. flat bow vs. cuddy cabin
-Windshield vs. Hard Top vs. Enclosed cabin Pretty much covered these already.

-Bottom, transom, and side thicknesses No strong opinions here, any quality boat you look at that meets above requirements is going to be sufficient here.

Good Luck Enjoy your search!

 

Only one aluminum boat for me, it has scuppers and if I were to ever get another boat, It having scuppers will be an absolute requirement.
ron m

 

I've thought about building the next boat. I'm half way through the Tolman book right now and then an aluminum boat building book is the next read. I haven't ruled out building with wood but the idea of sanding epoxy for days doesn't sound fun and I own almost 0 wood tools. There are a lot of shallow rocks and junk everywhere in the water up here, you are constantly dodging trees floating in the middle of nowhere. The durability of aluminum is why it's so popular up here.

I'm with you on the sanding part. It was the toughest part of the build for me to get through. Beaching on gravel isn't a concern but dodging submerged rocks would definitely give me a high level of anxiety.

If you haven't found it yet, Stephen F Pollard's "Boatbuilding With Aluminum" is an excellent resource. Check out Glen-L for plans. They have the late Ken Hankinson's aluminum plans available. I have a set of his blueprints for an 18' aluminum that I never got around to building. I could have built with aluminum as easily as with wood but ended up going with the Tolman for the combination of fuel economy and seaworthiness.

 

We have the boat below and really like it. Perfect all around boat for us. We had a Boulton 20' previously and we are very glad we upgraded.


We push it with a single Yamaha 200. Max speed around 36 mph. Cruising RPM 4000 at approximately 22-26 mph. Great fuel burn. We love the 84 gallon fuel cap. Makes multiple day halibut trips at 30 + miles without refueling.



I would forgo twin engines on "smaller" aluminum boats. The old argument is that if one engine fails at least I have the second engine to come home on. The truth of the matter is that if you have engine problems at sea, it is more than likely the fuel and both engines will draw from the same tank anyway.



Duckworth Pacific Pro


Length: 7.7 m / 25'3"
Beam: 2.6 m / 102"
Side: 99.06 cm x 3.175 mm / 39" x .125"
Btm Width: 228.6 cm x 4.83 mm / 90" x .190" w/ Reverse Chine
Dry Weight: 1597 kg / 3520 lbs
Deadrise: Bow: 32° Forward: 28° Transom: 18°
Fuel Cap: 382 L / 84 USG diurnal fuel system
Max HP: 224kw / 300 HP
Max Cap: 8 person or 1320lb, (600kg)
3000lb (1360kg) motor, persons, gear

 

"Good small aluminum ocean boat". I'd say these words do not belong together, period. Aluminum boats under 22' do not handle the ocean as well as fiberglass and are better left in lakes and rivers. In my experience, I would not even consider an aluminum boat under 22' with offshore bracket for ocean fishing, unless you only plan to run on 1 on 4 @ 12 days.... Now if you get in the 24' range, now you're talking about a good ocean aluminum boat that can handle some unforeseen wx.

 

Thanks for the input. After reading what's posted here and talking with the finance department if we go new it will be a 20-22' (22-24' OAL w/ bracket) boat with a bracket and full hardtop/ bulkhead. If we go used/ don't plan on keeping it as long a soft top/ windshield boat is an option depending on what's on the market. We are working on getting a list together of off the shelf turn key boats that look like they will fit our needs. We are also getting together a list of custom builders to talk with and a pretty specific list of what we want. I'm wondering if rigging it my self and skipping some of the options like exterior paint and flashy diamond plate everywhere will get us a better boat at the same price as an off the shelf boat.



Feel free to make suggestions of other boats to look at/ builders to talk with or tell me why some of the boats on the list are great or horrible boats for my needs.



Here's the off the shelf boats we've found so far that look like possibilities, some will be off the list if the builder can't increase the fuel tank size or a full bulkhead isn't avilable:
-Raider 220 Profish
-Raider 210 Explorer
-Wooldridge Super Sport Offshore 21
-Hewescraft 210 Searunner ET HT
-Hewescraft 220 Oceanpro ET HT
-Kingfisher Escape 2025 HT
-Kingfisher Escape 2225 HT
-Weldcraft 220 Ocean King
-Northriver Seahawk 22 HT
-Thunderjet Kenai
-Thunderjet Alexis OS
-Duckworth Navigator Sport HT
-Duckworth Pacific Pro 22
-Boulton Voyager 22
-Allied Mustang P21 HT
-Allied Corsair 22
-Koffler Crusader 20
-Katanacraft Hurricane 21
-Spartan Maximus 220
-Spartan Athens 215
-Pacific V2325





Custom builders we plan on talking with, some of the builders above should probably be in this list

-RB Boats
-Svendensen Marine
-Edwing
-Seawolf
-Motion Marine
-Silverback Marine

 

Pick what you like best and can get the best deal in. Go 22'... you will be kicking your own butt if you dont.

 

Lived in Kake for four years. Bought a Hewescraft 200 pro v ht et. 150 hp Yamaha. It was cheaper than the ocean pro and sea runner. It did almost everything really well, trap, fish, hunt. Open bow was essential for getting on the beach. We scooped it full of water one time when we were overloaded. The only big deal was the anchor rope washing out the bow scupper and almost fowling the prop. We had heater and would keeps us warm in cold winter conditions. The only thing I wished it had sometimes was a bigger fuel tank. We just packed an extra fuel can on long runs. 95% if the time it was enough boat for inside waters. Bought it from Rockys marine in Petersburg. They treated me right. Brough it to Washington used it a few times here then sold it to a friend in Southwest Alaska who makes his living on a boat who thinks it’s perfect too. Depends on your use.

 

The wooldridge and the pacific are the most interesting of all those options to me. Seems like the walk around ability of the pacific would be great for fishing and crabing up there. Those things are built like tanks.

 

A used Ironwood 22 is inside your budget.

 

FWIW - I'd add these to the custom list in no particular order if you haven't made up your mind...

Rogue Jet
Boulton Powerboats
Riddle Marine
Bean Marine Fabrication
Custom Weld
Edge Marine
Norvelle (if they are still around)
Crozier Craft

The last 2 are 100% custom ocean rigs.

:twocents:

There are tons of builders out there. Search the net on AluminumAlloyBoats dot com and you find more. :twocents::twocents:

 

22' NR Seahawk hardtop would be my top choice, but I'm partial to NR, & Oregon made products, Edge Marine 22', & Rogue Jet costal 22' also top choices for the same reasons. Not trying to discourage you from aluminum boats, cause I'm certainly a fan, but in the cold waters of Alaska, you might want to consider a glass boat for comfort, as aluminum transfers energy quickly, so basically the temp of the aluminum, will be what ever the water temp is, anybody that has drifted rivers for winter steelhead in an aluminum boat knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

This is the first time that I've heard of Spartan boats. Took a quick look at their website. Are they just rebadged TJs?

Might as well add Stabicraft to your list. Seeing more and more of these on the central/south coast and owners love them. Y-marina sells them in Coos Bay.