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North Umpqua Hatchery Steelhead Disc.

15K views 101 replies 44 participants last post by  Pondrd 
#1 ·
For those interested in how the discontinuation of the hatchery steelhead in the Umpqua River went down this past week below is a link to the ODFW commission meeting, the presentations and testimony associated with it. Go to the 6:05:20 mark where the process begins. It lasts three to four hours so maybe tackle it in chunks.

No votes came from ( Thank you Commissioners )
  • Commissioner Bob Spelbrink
  • Commissioner Mark Labhart
  • Commissioner Becky Hatfield-Hyde
The yes votes to eliminate hatchery steelhead came from
  • Commission Chair Mary Whal
  • Commissioner Jill Zarnowitz
  • Commissioner Leslie King
  • Commissioner Kathayoon Khalil
This vote to eliminate came after ODFW recommended moving forward with the release of 30K smolts in 2022. A contradiction.
Take a minute and read the the professional attributes each yes vote brings to the table. ODFW Commission Members
I would like to know if each of the no votes even holds a state fishing or hunting license?
Remember that the ODFW Commissioners serve at the pleasure of the governor. With an election this fall one might ask their candidate of choice what their stance on our fishing and hunting issues are? Hopefully you find a candidate that doesn't give you the deer in the headlights look.

 
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#2 ·
I listened to the majority of the discussion, and missed any comments supporting the cessation of the hatchery. It is completely absurd to dispose of the coming smolts; somebody got to them, and not in a good way.

I too suspect that the yes (elimination) votes came from women who do not fish and hunt. We should never forget that license and tag fees used to carry the agency, and still provide the lion's share of their budget.

Simplistically, the yes votes were biting the hand that feeds the agency!
 
#28 ·
I listened to the majority of the discussion, and missed any comments supporting the cessation of the hatchery. I
John McMillan spoke for about 15 minutes in favor of halting hatchery plants. Like him or not, like his research or not, he is easily the most respected scientist/researcher on steelhead and does more field work and research than any ODFW or WDFW biologist. His opinion carries a ton of weight. If we want hatchery fish in every river and not reserve any for just wild fish, we need to convince him. Dean Finnerty also argued that direction and the first letter I read that was mailed in was from a 32 year Roseburg Biologist strongly recommending we temporarily halt hatchery steelhead, but I ran out of time to read the other letters.
 
#3 ·
What is the best way to go about finding which political candidates are pro-hunting/fishing? I'm planning on reading the candidate booklet this week, but don't ever remember seeing any of their campaign promises or agendas geared towards hunting/fishing. This year I want to vote for a candidate that will be the most beneficial to our outdoor lifestyles, regardless of party affiliation.

#politicssuck!
 
#4 ·
I think the first question we need to ask is how program elimination was even on the list of staff recommendations given ODFW's own analysis determined the hatchery program was not a driver in wild summer steelhead abundance. If the recommendation was embedded in the CMP framework( and regurgitated) as an option then I get it. If Dr. Clements (and other upper ODFW staff) included it as a professional recommendation despite the conclusions of the analysis then it just further displays the institutional bias within ODFW.
 
#25 ·
I agree, I have watched the recorded footage of the meeting but once. Some interesting information on the status of the North Umpqua Summer Steelhead population and theories of factors influencing it. I would like to know the primary factors used by each commissioner to influence there vote regarding the discontinuation of the program.
 
#6 ·
I too wonder how many of the ODFW Commissioners ACTUALLY fish and or hunt. I kind of feel that in order to serve, each one of them must be involved in the very sport they make the rules for. Would you leave your fate in the hands of a DA or Judge that doesn't practice law?
 
#14 ·
I too wonder how many of the ODFW Commissioners ACTUALLY fish and or hunt. I kind of feel that in order to serve, each one of them must be involved in the very sport they make the rules for. Would you leave your fate in the hands of a DA or Judge that doesn't practice law?
Its a Life Style Bubba...not just a Sport (y)
 
#7 ·
Reading their bios, it makes a lot more sense.... Here's one from the newest person that voted no...."Dr. King is a Master Hunter, Angler and Trapper but spends lots of time outdoors doing none of these things as she is also an avid hiker, mountain biker and snowboarder. She is also very passionate about diversity, equity and inclusion in the outdoors and hopes to serve as an ambassador to welcome traditionally under-represented groups afield. She currently lives in Portland with dreams of building and living in an off-the-grid treehouse."

How many red flags do you count in that paragraph?
 
#8 ·
#16 ·
I was skeptical of Dr King on the commission at first. I listened to her speak during the game bird regs discussion. She sounded like a duck hunter to me and she knew what was going on with the snow geese populations on Sauvie Island east side. She was at least somewhat plugged in to that.

In the hatchery decision she was a big let down.

The other chick from the zoo needs to go back to the zoo. She looked like she was just ready to go home at the end of the day. This is the best we got??

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
 
#18 ·
She says in this podcast she hunts ducks on Sauvies.
This is an hour long interview with Commissioner King. It’s doesn’t cover much of her hunting and fishing but provides some insight to her past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the link Pearl. This was the first Commission meeting I have ever watched. Ok, I didn't watch the whole thing, but I did watch the entire session on the Rock Creek Hatchery. A few takeaways for me:

1. Where did that motion from Commissioner Zarnowitz come from? I didn't feel those advocating for that position gave a strong enough argument to eliminate the hatchery altogether. Director Melcher and staff were clear on the consequences of that motion passing. As somebody with a background at ODFW, I would have expected her to have more confidence in ODFW's preferred alternative.

2. It was interesting to hear arguments about adaptive management and which long-term trendline to pay attention to. Signals from adaptive management adjustments are weak and take a long time to show up. You have to either have enough faith to continue forward or you scrap the whole thing. They scrapped the whole thing.

3. If you testified on the pro-hatchery panel, I don't mean any offense. You made more of an effort in that one meeting than I ever have. Having said that, I thought the pro-hatchery panel was the weakest group of presenters. Though, I don't think the anti-hatchery panel swayed any votes either. I thought ODFW and the Tribes made strong enough arguments that the Commission would have followed the recommendation.
 
#21 ·
Disturbing public policy decision making. Not following the science. Not following the recommendations of professionals. Wasting tax payer dollars to produce the smolts and then not use them accordingly. Cater to a small but vocal group. Disregard the majority of anglers.

The fly water should be closed to all fishing to protect wild summer steelhead.
 
#23 ·
#99 ·
They did this to bow to catch and release fly fishing elitists. Fly fishing groups seem to have a lot of lobbying power, they are pushing the same garbage on the mckenzie wanting hatchery steelhead removed. Then you have them allowing the killing of wild steelhead on the upper willamette for some reason a self sustaining run that has been around for decades is not wild in odfw's eyes. I have caught several of those wild upper willamette fish and they look nothing like hatchery fish and in my opinion one of the most beautiful steelhead I have ever seen. I think odfw has simply lost its marbles.
 
#26 ·
I don't often agree with Commissioner Labhart, but his frank statement to the other commissioners was telling, he stated that there were 9 Phd professionals on staff that all agreed that the current proposed hatchery program would pose no threat to the native population on the Umpqua and you are going to go against that?
 
#27 ·
Another layer added to this:
LAWSUIT FILED TO BLOCK TERMINATION OF HATCHERY STEELHEAD PROGRAM
 
#30 ·
Why haven’t the local fish organizations getting behind this lawsuit. CCA, Steelheaders, Hatchery/Wild etc. Is it because it’s not affecting the Columbia River? Seemed like CCA rarely got involved unless it affected the Columbia, while Steelheaders branched out a bit. Not sure where Hatchery/Wild allegiances lie.
 
#33 ·
Remember that the ODFW Commissioners serve at the pleasure of the governor. With an election this fall one might ask their candidate of choice what their stance on our fishing and hunting issues are? Hopefully you find a candidate that doesn't give you the deer in the headlights look.
It would be more accurate to state that Commissioners are nominated by the governor BUT THEN have to be approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee (where through the years very many qualified candidates have been blocked by industry advocates).
IF approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee, and seated, ONLY THEN do they serve at the pleasure of the governor.
 
#37 ·
Behind the Fish: Steelhead/Salmon Biology with Scientist John McMillan - Flylords Mag

Here's a snippet from this article:
Flylords: What is your opinion on hatchery fish at this day and age? Are there river systems that you think it’s all right that hatchery programs are in place or do you think that hatchery programs are having a negative impact on rivers systems?
John McMillan: I think it is complex and I think over the past five years of working with steelhead and then my history as a scientist and an angler the science has become really clear. The overwhelming body of evidence for steelhead indicates that hatchery fish most of the time have a negative effect on wild steelhead.

I obviously have NO place to argue his point of view or try to prove him wrong. I'm just a dumb ol' fisherman. Just simply pointing out his opinion on hatchery steelhead and probably the biggest reason the commissioners voted to eliminate NU hatchery program.
 
#39 ·
Seems if ODFW had taken steps to keep Rock Creek pHOS below the CMP thresholds for the past 5-7 years, then this entire issue would have been a non-issue. They claimed their ability to do better was limited by insufficient staffing, yet how much have they spent dealing with the fallout? Paying for hatchery programs should also mean paying to operate them within guidelines.

My takeaway is that anglers wanting hatchery programs should encourage ODFW to keep pHOS low.

Problems with pHOS are common in Oregon, in some cases more severe than the Umpqua. They’re a ticking time bomb for more conflict and litigation.
 
#41 ·
Seems if ODFW had taken steps to keep Rock Creek pHOS below the CMP thresholds for the past 5-7 years, then this entire issue would have been a non-issue. They claimed their ability to do better was limited by insufficient staffing, yet how much have they spent dealing with the fallout? Paying for hatchery programs should also mean paying to operate them within guidelines.

My takeaway is that anglers wanting hatchery programs should encourage ODFW to keep pHOS low.

Problems with pHOS are common in Oregon, in some cases more severe than the Umpqua. They’re a ticking time bomb for more conflict and litigation.
pHOS is actually a fairly subjective measurement based on stream surveys which have been proven to be very inaccurate.

In this case we have an actual fish ladder to count the wild and hatchery returns. And the wild returns INCREASED after the start of the hatchery over 60 years ago.

According to the data provided by ODFW the vast majority of hatchery steelhead that were in the river were very near the hatchery. Why not encourage selective recreational angling in this area to remove hatchery fish? Why isnt that a first choice of managers???

Another data point ODFW presented was that the mortality assigned to catch and released angling was 2% or less. Recreational angling as a management tool that is going usused.

Remember, ODFW was REQUIRED by the CMP to operate the trap at Rock Creek. They chose not to. And suggested reducing plants. Mostly due to their lack of action in my opinion.

This isn't over, but those 78,000 smolts whose parents were rescued from the burnt hatchery by heroic ODFW employees need to be released into the river in the next few weeks.
 
#43 ·
Generalizations like hatchery steelhead have a negative effect don't apply when the wild fish spawn in Steamboat Creek Where hatchery pHOS is near zero. The trap is ineffective on Rock Creek so some hatchery fish spawn above the trap. These fish are counted in the total pHOS. The purpose of pHOS is to count hatchery fish potentially spawning with wild fish. Hatchery fish spawning with hatchery fish does not matter. Repair the trap or open the Rock creek to sport angling. There are effective alternatives to shutting down the fishery.
Studies have also shown that some hatchery fish move upstream looking for colder water but return to the hatchery when Rock Creek cools. Depending on when a survey takes place, these fish may be counted incorrectly in the pHOS.
 
#47 · (Edited)
The 78,000 smolts in the hatchery now are progeny of fish rescued by heroic ODFW employees. After the fire went through the hatchery manager got permission to go in. He found the smolts in the hatchery dead. But the adult brood fish were alive so the got trucks and help and moved them to another hatchery.

When those fish were spawned these are the descendants. One year class died in the fire. This is the next one. If we lose this year class we lose to possibility of ever having a hatchery run of in basin fish again.y

This video of the hatchery manager and footage of the rescue and fire aftermath are heart breaking. But for the 4 commissioners to kill this program after these efforts is really unimaginable.

Chapter V: The Hatchery - YouTube

Please respond to the action alert that Pearl posted and ask your friends to as well.

The Governor can step in and fix this, if she wants to.

Thank you
 
#49 ·
You missed the part where the Umpqua decline was in sync with declines in other rivers. Originally pHOS was for salmon and based heavily on carcass counts and less on visuals or Redd counts. Steelhead don’t workout well for pHOS. They don’t die, they often arrive spawn and leave totally unseen in one night or two. And Coho Redds look no different from Steelhead Redds. Not uncommon for Coho and Steelhead to be spawning at the same time. Biased science papers often leave out these facts.
 
#50 ·
No, didn’t miss that. No thanks for telling me what I know.
All those rivers trending have hatcheries …
Slope Font Line Pattern Parallel


… but I don’t know anyone who argues that hatcheries directly and solely cause the current declines.

That Doesn’t change the need to preserve wild genes, especially in a time of decline. They’re the last line of defense before populations blip out. And please, I’m busting a gut over the idea of hatchery fish as “lifeboats” … hatchery fish are there for harvest. save the lipstick.
 
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