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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently had my rifle re-barreled in 7mm Remington mag. I want to start shooting all copper bullets and finally obtained some barnes TTSX bullets in 140 grain. Any advice on loading these? Especially cartridge length. I have heard to start at .050 off the lands.
 

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I hear the same thing but I've never used them. Something I don't get is that I've also heard that those type bullet's in factory ammo shoot very well. So how does a factory make ammo that will fit all chamber's .050 off the lands. Usually seating OLL is a way to tweek ammo a bit. Just guessing now as I said never used them, I measure length from bolt face to bullet tip then adjust as needed to get the bullet off the ogive. If you have the tools just measure to the ogive. When doing it my way, once I have the round where it will chamber I still measure from case base to bullet tip and what ever that length moves is what the ogive also moves. Were I you I'd start from there and figure out where the bullet shoot's best in my rifle. Much as I hear about that .050 thing less I think it's true. Reason being every gun is a law unto itself. If you start .050" off and need to tweek it a bit, which way do you go?
 

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Agree with Don. Every rifle has it’s own likes and dislikes so start with what you heard (.050) and fiddle. Don’t get too carried away with accuracy if your goal is simply having a nice hunting rifle. What’s good enough is really good enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I recently had my rifle re-barreled in 7mm Remington mag. I want to start shooting all copper bullets and finally obtained some barnes TTSX bullets in 140 grain. Any advice on loading these? Especially cartridge length. I have heard to start at .050 off the lands.
I think that you go either way as long as you watch for signs of over pressure. I have a friend that loads copper for a 25.06 and got the best accuracy at .080 off the lands. I think with factory ammo they just load them pretty short.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Agree with Don. Every rifle has it’s own likes and dislikes so start with what you heard (.050) and fiddle. Don’t get too carried away with accuracy if your goal is simply having a nice hunting rifle. What’s good enough is really good enough.
As far as accuracy I'm kind of a fanatic. That's my reason for going to all the work for hand loading. I also hunt an area in eastern Oregon where long shots are sometimes necessary. And it's something to do. I like to be able to hit reliably at 500yds.
 

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I have not had good luck with monolithic bullets. :( The only rifle I ever got to shoot them well was a SS Ruger .338 that would not shoot anything else well at all. It shot them ridiculously well, 5 shot groups around 3/8ths of an inch. In 25-30 other rifles, I've never gotten under 2 MOA reliably. I've jacked with OAL from contacting the lands to 0.3" of jump, changed brass, primers .. every trick known to handloaders. I'm jealous of people who can make them work. I can't.
 

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I use the 140 ttsx in my 7stw. I was given load specs for the tsx years ago and that worked out fine. I adjusted the oal for the tipped and that also works; 1/2 minute at 200.
3.695 oal and 81.5 rl-25. I've played a bit with seating depth but always come back. I'm about .110" off the lands.
 

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They shoot great in all my rifles. In my 7mm RM, I seat them right about at the top ring on the bullet. In my 25-06, I seat them deep enough that they are funny looking, but seating them out further does not improve accuracy. I think the main reason for a lot of jump is that you can get too much pressure if you're too close to the lands, but you need velocity for them to be accurate. I did a seating depth test with a charge well under max, and saw pressure signs if there wasn't at least .020" jump.

I'd say if you start with Barnes' recommended COAL, you won't have to move it more than. 010" either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks guys. This is all great info. My old barrel was a wildcat. 300 Win Mag necked down to 270. I shot Nosler partitions and got those great 3/8" groups at 100yds. Hope I can match that with the new barrel and all copper bullets. With a little less recoil.
 

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Keep them off the lands some. If you get too close to the lands, pressure spikes can happen. Even with below max book loads.

You may want to accept a little less than max potential velocity. 50-75fps under top listed load with best performing powder ( especially if you compare several manuals using cup and core slugs and select max velocity from that)

If your rifle is correct mechanically, I suspect accuracy will be good. Some rifles refuse to shoot them. But I also own a rifle that refuses to shoot Bal Tips, Bergers and Sierras that shoots great with TSX. My wife's 270 shoots groups so small with TTSX that I don't mention it because nobody believes me.

Pay attention to overall length of loaded rounds by measuring the ogive of each round. They vary more in this respect than match slugs. But if you keep the jump to the lands the same, accuracy seems to do well.

They do copper foul more than cup and core slugs. If your bore looks like alligator hide, they will require cleaning after XYZ rounds. Seeing how you have a rebarrel, I am going to assume your tube is better than some of the factory stuff. If this is the case, you may have no issues with fouling. My wifes 270 is over 100 without cleaning right now. Last group I shot (From prone. Not a benchrest) was in the .3moa range.....maybe it would do better if I cleaned it.
 

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Keep them off the lands some. If you get too close to the lands, pressure spikes can happen. Even with below max book loads.

You may want to accept a little less than max potential velocity. 50-75fps under top listed load with best performing powder ( especially if you compare several manuals using cup and core slugs and select max velocity from that)

If your rifle is correct mechanically, I suspect accuracy will be good. Some rifles refuse to shoot them. But I also own a rifle that refuses to shoot Bal Tips, Bergers and Sierras that shoots great with TSX. My wife's 270 shoots groups so small with TTSX that I don't mention it because nobody believes me.

Pay attention to overall length of loaded rounds by measuring the ogive of each round. They vary more in this respect than match slugs. But if you keep the jump to the lands the same, accuracy seems to do well.

They do copper foul more than cup and core slugs. If your bore looks like alligator hide, they will require cleaning after XYZ rounds. Seeing how you have a rebarrel, I am going to assume your tube is better than some of the factory stuff. If this is the case, you may have no issues with fouling. My wifes 270 is over 100 without cleaning right now. Last group I shot (From prone. Not a benchrest) was in the .3moa range.....maybe it would do better if I cleaned it.
that is because they are all copper where most all cup&core bullets have gilding metal of some mixture for the jacket - there aren't many lead core bullets that have all copper jackets, Swift do, there must be a few more - Has everyone switching to all copper not read or been told that it's wise to take the bore down to shiny clean steel before beginning ? it does make a difference in a lot of rifles, then again, in some it don't mean squat ....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
that is because they are all copper where most all cup&core bullets have gilding metal of some mixture for the jacket - there aren't many lead core bullets that have all copper jackets, Swift do, there must be a few more - Has everyone switching to all copper not read or been told that it's wise to take the bore down to shiny clean steel before beginning ? it does make a difference in a lot of rifles, then again, in some it don't mean squat ....
I think eventually we will all be copper. I believe California is. The problem with copper cased lead bullets is that particles of lead end up breaking off and ending up in the lungs and organs. Then when raptors and other carrion birds eat the parts that you leave behind they ingest the lead and can die. I'm a hunter but also an avid birder so I don't want to contribute to that. Also copper bullets retain all of their weight and are more deadly.
 

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Rough barrels foul in my experience. No matter the jacket material.

There's some old wives tales around now that were based on earliest versions of the X. I've heard these "facts" thrown around recently....even though it hasn't been an issue for 20+ years. Only seen it in early 90s production. Since the grooves were put in the side of the slug, it's never been much of an issue for the rifles I have worked with.

Rough bores foul with any bullet. Some folks over react to copper fouling. Treating it like the plague. It's copper. Not a big deal.
 
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that is because they are all copper where most all cup&core bullets have gilding metal of some mixture for the jacket - there aren't many lead core bullets that have all copper jackets, Swift do, there must be a few more - Has everyone switching to all copper not read or been told that it's wise to take the bore down to shiny clean steel before beginning ? it does make a difference in a lot of rifles, then again, in some it don't mean squat ....
I don't think it's ever a good idea to shoot multiple bullets in the same barrel. They never seem to shoot well when you do. A guy should chose a bullet that shoots well and stick with it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

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copper bullets retain all of their weight and are more deadly.
The first part of this I agree with, it’s science proven. The second part I absolutely do not. The only animals I’ve ever shot more than twice was back when I shot guilded bullets. Bullets that do damage kill better. Bullets that transfer energy kill better. Guilded bullets are great if you’re hitting meat and bone, far less messy. A good shot in the vitals they‘re not near the top of my list. I’ve put a couple dozen of them into animals and only recovered one 130gr from a .270 in a huge mule deer.

-Scott
 

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I recently had my rifle re-barreled in 7mm Remington mag. I want to start shooting all copper bullets and finally obtained some barnes TTSX bullets in 140 grain. Any advice on loading these? Especially cartridge length. I have heard to start at .050 off the lands.
I strongly advise you to simply make a list of your questions and call Barnes toll free number. Hit the extension for load data and either wait or leave you phone number for a call back. That usually happens in under an hour.

What you are going to get in terms of responses here on Ifish will be a mixture of good info, bad info, and old info.

The tech staff at Barnes is very patient and fully versed. Last week I called and they spent almost a half hour looking for alternative powders to match what I had, seeing as I could not buy their recommended powders due to shortages.

Welcome to going no-lead. I have long ago shot my last lead bullet at any game animal. My first year going no-lead my blood lead level dropped from 5.5 micro grams of lead/decileter of blood down to under 3 micrograms.

Also you are not leaving behind gutpiles filled with 100's of tiny pieces of invisible and easily digested pieces of lead which are poisoning anything that scavenges on your gutpiles.

Go straight to Barnes with your questions.

DB
 

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Regarding the Barnes bullets, I would start with the COAL that Barnes specs for the 7RM. I agree with other comments that they do like a jump and close to the lands are either not necessary, or can cause pressure issues. I have load data for other cartridges but not that one. Maybe someone here can send a pic of that page for you.
One thing to try if you have issues with the TTSX’s is to try the TSX. I had one rifle that had much better groups with the TSX. Don’t know why and dont really care.
Another copper bullet option that you may want to try is the Hammer bullets. Very easy to get accurate fast loads, and so far with two animals taken, I like their performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I strongly advise you to simply make a list of your questions and call Barnes toll free number. Hit the extension for load data and either wait or leave you phone number for a call back. That usually happens in under an hour.

What you are going to get in terms of responses here on Ifish will be a mixture of good info, bad info, and old info.

The tech staff at Barnes is very patient and fully versed. Last week I called and they spent almost a half hour looking for alternative powders to match what I had, seeing as I could not buy their recommended powders due to shortages.

Welcome to going no-lead. I have long ago shot my last lead bullet at any game animal. My first year going no-lead my blood lead level dropped from 5.5 micro grams of lead/decileter of blood down to under 3 micrograms.

Also you are not leaving behind gutpiles filled with 100's of tiny pieces of invisible and easily digested pieces of lead which are poisoning anything that scavenges on your gutpiles.

Go straight to Barnes with your questions.

DB
Thanks DB I did call Barnes because they didn't show a load in their online tables for the components that I was able to obtain. They were very helpful and gave me a range of loads to start with. Their recommendation was .050 off the lands. This is important to measure since all rifles have a different head space so I always measure mine before I start loading. Once I figure out the max. length I measure everything from the ogive since that is where the bullet first hits the bore.
 

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I’m on Radke’s side on this one. Shooting through large muscle groups and big bones just because we can with the monolith bullets, is a poor excuse to do so. I want a bullet that puts a large animal down quickly because the bullet developed a large frontal mass upon striking when the velocity and energy is the highest and produces maximum lung damage. And produce large (large) entrance and exit holes. Hitting large bones and muscles reduces a bullets effectiveness on the vital organs beneath and those large muscles tend to block entrance and exit wounds. The fact the monolith bullets have a tendency to exit animals when velocity has dropped off well below the point where the remaining bullet energy isn’t sufficient to produce extensive tissue damage is a testament to the bullets inability to expand quickly. There are many who will argue this but can’t produce the logic behind their argument. Any of us who’ve shot a few elk or witnessed it, have seen animals do strange things after bullet impact. Some fall over as planned or hoped while others remain on their feet much longer. Every animal is different and every shooting situation is different and if we Shoot a good bullet and have enough impact velocity to make it perform as designed, we get more consistent result. One shot kills should be everyone’s goal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I’m on Radke’s side on this one. Shooting through large muscle groups and big bones just because we can with the monolith bullets, is a poor excuse to do so. I want a bullet that puts a large animal down quickly because the bullet developed a large frontal mass upon striking when the velocity and energy is the highest and produces maximum lung damage. And produce large (large) entrance and exit holes. Hitting large bones and muscles reduces a bullets effectiveness on the vital organs beneath and those large muscles tend to block entrance and exit wounds. The fact the monolith bullets have a tendency to exit animals when velocity has dropped off well below the point where the remaining bullet energy isn’t sufficient to produce extensive tissue damage is a testament to the bullets inability to expand quickly. There are many who will argue this but can’t produce the logic behind their argument. Any of us who’ve shot a few elk or witnessed it, have seen animals do strange things after bullet impact. Some fall over as planned or hoped while others remain on their feet much longer. Every animal is different and every shooting situation is different and if we Shoot a good bullet and have enough impact velocity to make it perform as designed, we get more consistent result. One shot kills should be everyone’s goal.
I agree with you. I always strive for a lung shot. It's the quickest kill and does the least damage to the meat. Right behind the front shoulder is the spot.
 
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