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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just posed this question on Corkie Monster's thread on the Trask.

Thought I'd open up this question to the board. Here it is:

Question for you bobber guys (Kentucky Hog Hunter, others)I am seing a pattern with the Owner cutting points (6/0, 7/0, 8/0) of fish being hooked and coming off during the battle.

Bear in mind, Olympic class hooksets, tuff-line, 40# leaders, hard pullin. So I don't really think stickin them is an issue.

I have noticed alot of landed fish that had a real gash or rip line in their mouths where the cutting point kept cutting. Some of those just fall out in the net. Many bobber fish are stuck in the roof of the mouth. If it wraps around a bone, no problem, but many in the fleshy part of the roof of the mouth just keep cutting.

Is it the cutting points or the pressure??

I use Gami's in 5/0, or 6/0 when back bouncing. After a good chew I also give Olympic class hooksets. I have not noticed the ripping or coming off problems there. Im thinking about going back to Gammi's for bobbers.

Thoughts please.
 
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GRB,

If I have learned anything this fall, heavier liter is going to be used from this point forward.

I broke off the biggest salmon of my life a couple weeks ago because of teeth raking & 40# line. Hence 50# liter in the future.

As you may know, I have gone to the "Fishbait" school of Bobber Fishing and my drag is so tight I can't pull it off the reel with my hand but the fish did in this case. Hence, big hog struggle.

As for the comments on Owner Hooks. Again, I went to the "Fishbait" school of bobber fishing and I use a "2" hook set up. That stinger makes a big difference in my opinion. I use 6 & 7 ott's in the cutting points. Ya, the owners are more expensive but I use them on everything including quckies & URB Wobblers. My fishing partners "Danthefishman" & "Hogback" seem to enjoy them as well since the pack of 7 ott's I let them borrow came bake home with many less than when I gave it to them. I just don't know... Gammi's are good as well and like I said, I think the stinger hook makes a difference. Some may disagree however :shrug: .

I am a novice
when it comes to bobbering but I do know liter length is very important in regards to water clarity. As for cures...well you know everyone has their favorite there but just as I learned from the "Fishbait" school of bobber fishing, it is the little things that will make you successful.

I know I have posted some things on here regarding cures that has got me in some hot water :mad: with some folks but I think have really learned some valuble lessons this fall and the day I spent with "Fishbait" on the water really showed me how little I know and that it is the little things that make a difference. Like I said in a post earlier, I owe allot of people allot of thanks for making me the fisherman I am today.

As always, I will continue to be a student of the game and never get a big head about this stuff because I love fishing too much and I know there are going to be those days when humility is just a cast away.

By the way GRB...I would like to share some water with you someday.

I am heading to the John Day for a change of pace this weekend for a 3 day'r...

I hope this will be an interesting post.

Regards, KHH
 

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I know alot of guys that have had the same problems with the owner cutting points ripping out. As you said the fish that do get landed have long tears in their mouths. I use gammi or owner regular points. 7/O for just about everything. These aren't small fish we're going for. Bobber Down!!
 

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Bruce,

I too have had the same experience with the cutting points the edge on those hooks will difficulty saw its way out. That only happens when you hook a fish in the jaw bone or somewhere in an area where the hook is only buried and doesn't come through all the way, that's when the cutting edges has a chance to saw, that is if you have a crazy head shaker. If the hook is all the way through I don't think it matters cause he's in the circle of the hook, right? then all the head shaking won't matter as long as you have tension but why take that chance.

My point is why bother with cutting edges, it's not like you can't drive a needle point home.

I Won't ever use them again, I don't see the point in them.

I do know of one way how they can improve on the design but who am I to tell them what to do.


How do you like that 70+ lber? You know that wasn't a cutting edge hook.

Bobby
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yep KHH it is the little things.

Paying attention to leader length and diameter/color has helped me a bunch in clear conditions this fall. I also believe in making baits look good. (no further comment)

I've debated the Fishbait theory on singles and doubles. I have done it both on bobbers and on back bouncing. My opinion on those is technique is more important than equipment. If there is a hook sticking when you swing, all is good. Something I need to work on more when bobbering. I feel pretty good about my percentages on BBing. I would never debate FB on bobbering, he's the old salt in that game.

You don't get them all. WYBD, I also use 7/0 and even 8/0 and agree. Actually on fallies, never smaller than 6/0. I have used 6/0 and smaller lower vis leaders at times this fall and think it helped.

I also recently (very, very recently) lost a big chromer to teeth on the leader. I personally think Ultra green 40# is less likely to break on teeth/knicks than other lines. The line I was using was Trilene Big Game 40#(someone elses pre tied leader). Again, you don't get them all, but I'll take UG over anything else I've tried.

My theory on Owner Cutting Points have been, great hook as long as they never touch a rock. Gami's are sharp and tough.

If you lock your thumb on the spool with Tuff, it really doesn't need to be as sharp as say...my whit.

I'd enjoy a day out with you KHH, I've heard some good things.
 

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Gun Rod Bow,
Here are my thoughts on Owner cutting edge hooks. I've quit using them acct. a loss of to many fish with them. I really don't know if it's the set of the hook or the play and tearing effect while the fish is on that accounts for the loss. I have found the regular Owner point hooks to do very well, haven't had any trouble with them yet. I usually fish a 6/0 size hook. I use the Gammi's too and have good success with them. GRB what ever you decide I hope you catch big ones and lots of them.
God Bless

fearsnofish
 

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Looks like a short man I would say 54-56lbs. I have used Owner cutting points all season and have been very happy with them I also used Mustad Stainless. I lost a few fish were You could feel that destinctive thud coming out of the fish's mouth but I'am not sure if I was ripp'in lips or just had a bad hook set on it. I'am true believer in letting that fish really grab the bait so I have had great success in my hook set. I was dissapointed in my ability to sharpen the stainless mustad but was very happy with the cutting edge mustad hooks. I took a gami,mustad,owner in a 6 and tried to bend them with my bare hands to feel the differance. I was not happy when the gami bent very easly. I budged the owner slightly and couldn't even move the mustad and put a few nudges in my finger too :smile:

I'am going to stick with owner hooks until I'am proven that there is a better sharper stronger hook. I think the only thing that comes close is a Mustad. IMHO :smile:

Good luck all have a great winter steelie season and the rest of the late fall.
 

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Hey UG,

When I used the accronym UG, I was refering to something with a tough outer shell, exceptional strenth, that really holds onto big fish...Not You
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">


UG
 

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I believe in the " Easy in , Easy Out Theory" . My hook of choice is Gamakatsu . I have Tried them all and by far have been most successful with the Gami's. I buy hooks by the 500/1000 quantities and dont worry so much about price. If I hook a fish and land it, the hook stays in the fish and I tie on a new leader, If I hook a fish and dont want to keep it I generally cut the leader and not net the fish. Either way I burn thru hundreds of hooks each season between Astoria and the Fall season. It is a personal preference. If you are cost conscious then a more affordably hook is a VMC cone cut. They are about a 1/3 less than Gamakatsu and do work well. Good Luck!

John
 

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I use Owners for some stuff.

I don't know diddly about bobber fishing. But hear me out.

I do know diddly about diver and bait. I have tried just about every hook on the market. With Owners( In several sizes. Fished for several days.Under different conditions.), and while I cannot explain it, they do not stick. This is steelhead fishing where they should EAT it. The rod is buried before we get it out of the holder. I missed more than 50%. I went back to gammies for this application. A guide friend had exactly the same experience as I did. He went back to gammies too.

I love their trebles on plugs. And drift fishing rags, they get the nod.

Just goes to show you, sometimes most aint always best. But sometimes it is.

Knowledge is power....or fish in the box. :smile:

Mark and the it kinda depends on what I am doing dog.
 

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Let's throw something different at you guy's to think about here.

During my vacation a couple of week's ago, I had a good bobber bight going in the morning. The first two day's we had several bobber down's that just didnt stick using a 6/0 hook. We also had a few bobbers go under and start swimming away, when we went to set the hook, nothing but air.

I had seen this years ago in my guiding day's. So we downsized!!!!!! We started using a 5/0 hook and a smaller bait, no bigger than a quarter. 10 more bobbers down, 10 more fish to the boat. Try this the next time you are having trouble.

By the way, I use Eagle Claw Alaskan hooks. I personaly feel they do as good as job or better as any other hook on the market under a bobber.
 

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GRB

Interesting Topic :wink: :grin:

Rusty how you been long time no see. Glad to hear you are still doing good. I laugh every time I read you signature " Yes Jim......."
:laugh: :bowdown:
 

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Bobber fishing to me is the most fun king fishing god invented! This fall I have landed a couple hundred Kings easy putting on a clinic most days and open to answer questions from people around me when ever asked. I guided for years when I was a youth in Alaska,Wash., and Oregon and what I found was no matter what the # test of the leader material is if the fish is toothy they are going to chew 60# test as quick as 20# test believe me I know! So what is my go to now 15# test and 2/0 vision hooks its a sport[salmon fishing] and I get way more hookups with the light # test and usually they stay buttoned Probably landed at least one fish over 40# daily and it is break the leaders off before I usually can de-plier them after landing them, sure I miss a few bites but most days I get plenty anyway. Just for point today I fished with timberman and had him down 5 fish to 0 before he took off the 25# test leader and switched over to lighter gear and instantly started hooking up say what you want but a tip from me is gear down and fish-on!!!PEACE
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Scott,

You using Mustads? Care to comment on size? Any response to the observation of Owner Cutting Points cutting a trough?

Price and sponsorships aside, your preference please.
 

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Ive always used Gammies for almost everything, Steelhead, Coho, Chinook, rivers, bays and salt. Nice sharp point, strong hook, and non-rusting.

When a Gammie looses its point, don't even bother trying to sharpen, just throw it away. I have every respect for Owners (most of the guides use them) and mustads (great stainless steel for salt)but I started using Gammies about 10 or 12 years ago and they have not disappointed at all.

I agree with the Ultra Green for the leader, 40 or 50 is just fine. Those are the things that have worked best over the years for me and my fishing group. Anyway these thoughts are not worth more than what you have paid for them.

[ 11-11-2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: captn ]
 
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You don't get them all. WYBD, I also use 7/0 and even 8/0 and agree. Actually on fallies, never smaller than 6/0. I have used 6/0 and smaller lower vis leaders at times this fall and think it helped.
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">See there...Here goes that learning process again... I always debated about 6 otts in the lower tide water because the water is typically merkier down in the lower reaches... I think I am going to use 7's from this point forward...

As for that upper Wilson tide water, all I knowe is that it is a lot clearer so point well taken regaring 6 otts and long liters...

BTW...don't believe what you hear about me...I am definately not that good. I am just fortunate enough to know people who have taught me allot... This probably tells me why I still am going to school working on that graduate degree thing...Not smart enough to figure it out on my own so I took some advice a long time ago: Mamma always said listen & pay attention...That is why I value Fishbait and all you others who have done the hard work. I have made a vow to myself to keep it as simple as possible and make it fun. So being humble and taking advice is a good thing..
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Bobbi,

It was truly a big fish. Was it 70#? I really avoid those games because there's no way to tell from a pic, often it is decieving even when you are there in person. It's a no winner.

It was a big, big salmon. Congrats.

I am gravitating back toward Gami's. Interesting to hear others with the same experience.

So Bobbi, what do you guess this one weighed?


Hard to say huh?

Hey UG,

When I used the accronym UG, I was refering to something with a tough outer shell, exceptional strenth, that really holds onto big fish...Not You :laugh: :dance: :laugh:
 

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I'm not a good fisherman so take this with a grain of salt, but I've told this story once or twice already.

I fished the Wind river for Chinook in the Spring of 2002 one weekend and had 7 takedowns in one afternoon and the next morning. I was using owner cutting hooks in the 1/0 size and was only hooking the fish for maybe 5 seconds on the hookset before they would come off. It was fun to feel the headshake and the fish run before coming off, but it would've been nice to catch one.

Anyway after asking around some of the other fisherman suggested I start using Gamis. I switched and landed the next 4 fish I hooked over the next 2 days. I noticed that the first fish I landed had the hook squarely in the tounge, not in the jaw.

I maintain that the cutting point owners were cutting their way out of the fish's soft tissue in it's mouth. If you get a fish in the jawbone the owners are going to grab great, but I personally can't think of a good reason to use owner cutting points. Needle points might be a different story, but I can't afford to lose another 7 fish to find out...
 
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Hmmm...

Hearing allot of bad stories here regarding Owners...This is frustrating me because this goes to prove the theory more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better. Allot of good fishermen are coming out here in favor of Gammi's over Owners. This is very interesting food for thought.

Better have both brands tied up and really pay close attention to this in the future.

This is turning into a great topic.
 
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