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Troller. Explorer, Marlin curious.
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Read a story today about how electric cars will soon be phased out, sales are down, no one wants anything different than the same old, same old.

I'm still laughing.

Not quite a year ago I bought a Chevy Spark. It's not pretty or stylish but the wrapper is not what it is all about. It is practical and very useful. I was thinking about that today as I dropped it off at the dealership. They are going to fix the only problem I have had pretty much since day one.

The rear door rubs on the front door when you open it and the car is cold. It is a warranty issue and basically the door is not adjusted correctly. There is a quarter sized spot of paint missing and the door still rubs. The paint shop facilitator told me that these cars actually change size enough to affect the door fit when they warm up and cool down. We'll see if they get it right. The door only rubs when the car is cold so maybe that's why. They are going to touch up a couple of rock chips while they are at it, no charge.

But that's it! No other issues. 7,200 miles now. Never ran out of battery or got stranded. Never wasted more than 30 minutes in a trip for charging. Drove it anywhere from local commute to as far away as Tacoma or Silverton. There are free charging stations if you know how to find them. No electronics issues. And

Never bought fuel. Don't need it.
Never changed the oil. Car does not have any.
Never got out the tool set. No user serviceable parts and the warranty is 100% bumper to bumper, eight years, no deductible.

The dealership has done two service bulletins, one for fast charging outlet and today one for the airbag computer, a software upgrade. This takes about as long as it takes to drink a cup of coffee. The service tech told me today that he had doubts about the Spark when it first showed up on the lot but now has grudging respect for a car he does not work on very much.

I am looking at the Bolt now and may get on the list for a 2017. Next year we add solar to the roof and unplug the car(s) from the grid.

How much is gas now? What? the Saudis and Russians teaming up and wishing the price would go up?

Yawn ......
 

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awesome! now you just need that tech applied to a tuna boat and you'll be set! ;)
 

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Troller. Explorer, Marlin curious.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Gonna need a big boat for that. The Kreigsmarine almost won WWII with battery-electric propulsion, using U-boats.

The technology has been around at least a hundred years as some of the first cars were electric. Something kept it from being developed.

Hmmmm ..... wonder what business interest does not want electric cars around?
 

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I'm laughing, too. 7200 miles at only 20 mpg even $3 per gallon is $1080 for the past year. How much did that Volt cost you? :)
 

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Troller. Explorer, Marlin curious.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
$9,500. Yeah, that's right I got about 1/2 the purchase price back as a tax credit. Its not a Volt BTW. The Volt has training wheels (small engine) and the Spark is 100% electric. You can lease a Spark for ~$125 a month.

The now retired F250 has about 1200 miles on it for the same time period. Diesel was $2.29 today when I filled up. The price will be somewhere else in a few months when I fill it again.
 

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Nice Han!
I was almost able to sell my fleet of diesel trucks for electric ones a couple years ago. Not there yet. But hopefully in the next decade.
The biggest thing that I deal with, electric vehicles double tire life. Brakes life massively increased. Maintenance goes to near zero.
Battery life is just not there (for me) yet.

We are still subject to oil costs though. That isn't changing for a long time. Just because you don't buy gasoline or oil directly, most everything you consume is moved by or has it in it. Or both


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Next year when you put the panels up you'll be getting a check from the utility company for the excess. Looked at panels here but shake roof and I have shade on the south side from about 2pm on. So not ideal. Thought about the Honda Fit EV, still thinking about it.

Maybe next house and retirement which is not all that far away.:cool:
 

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I'm laughing, too. 7200 miles at only 20 mpg even $3 per gallon is $1080 for the past year. How much did that Volt cost you? :)
In fairness, you are trying to compare your fuel costs to his overall cost of ownership. Sort of like trying to compare your home heating cost to someone elses' mortgage, natural gas bill, and electricity bill combined.

Using your numbers, you paid about .15 cents a mile strictly in fuel. The numbers I have seen for a plug-in electric vehicle in Oregon are between .02 and .03 cents per mile for the cost of electricity. That probably doesn't cover the cost of a charging station, though, if you wanted a fast charge system.

I don't think economics are on your side, at least strictly from a cost per mile standpoint. I don't have a dog in the fight, both my vehicles are diesels (only thing I own that burns gasoline is the boat).

Speaking of electric vehicles and range, anyone see the news that Chevy is going to offer a "Bolt" small car with a 240 mile range next year? Around $30k price tag, after the tax credit. Pretty interesting for a commuter car. Will be interesting to see if Tesla can actually deliver their small car on time, and at $35k.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12899752/chevy-bolt-driving-impressions-review
 

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Hans, sorry that I called your Spark a Volt, or was that a compliment. ;) I knew you likely took the tax break. You're welcome. Of course, it's not worse than any other subsidy all of us pay.

Threeweight, I didn't actually compare anything or mention what I paid. Of course, there is more than a cost per mile in fuel.

I'm all for anyone buying what makes them happy, but let's not pretend like there is "one" answer or that EVs are the answer for everyone.
 

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I know a couple other people with EV's and they are all very happy with them. I'm a little over 3 months with mine and just love it.

I agree that they are not for everyone, but they have the potential to significantly reduce our dependence on oil. Here in the NW, we have an excess of electricity at night. I do most of my charging at night and therefore put almost no extra pressure on our grid. PGE only charges 4.4 cents per KW at night.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
The Bolt promises alot. Chevy really wants to beat Tesla. The price and range are there if the car is all it is said to be. You have to adapt to driving with less than a 1/4 of a tank of gas to use the Spark as it was intended. The Bolt will be almost like a conventional car. 200 mile trips no problem.

There are tax incentives still available for the 220 volt charging stations and the cars. I paid $400 for my 220v charger and then paid for installation of an electric clothes dryer outlet to plug it into.

The lease deal is unbeatable. Three years and almost no risk. You just have to limit your miles driven. This is actually easy to do if you use the car as a commuter.

Jimh ... no there is no one answer. But we should have some of the 'Answers' tried out before we actually need them. The way that is done is getting the technology out into the real world. Build it, sell it and find out what happens. Learn and refine till you either decide it is crap or you decide that you are onto something worth using.

Imagine what would happen if the area where most of the worlds oil comes from ... became radioactively contaminated. I'll let your imagination do the math for you.

Having developed, deployed and commissioned many control systems .... I can say that it rarely goes as predicted. With serial number 001, especially there is always lots of learning going on with the use of the system.

I adopted this technology knowing full well that it may not go as planned. But I feel like I am contributing by testing it out and allowing (Chevy in this case) the manufacturer to figure it out with the benefit of real world use.

Markets are based in part on competition. Alternatives to fossil fueled cars are something the fuel suppliers don't want. We (consumers) need to push the development of those alternatives and introduce some competition to this monopoly energy market. No alternatives means they call the shots, they decide how much we pay for energy and they spin some BS story with every price hike.
 
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Imagine ... if people would live near where they work. Eliminate traffic jams to save fuel. Stop rebuilding the same sections of road over and over that both wastes fuel and creates traffic jams.

And then, there's the lack of focus on biodiesel. But let's not forget the pipelines from Canada and AK, and people against fracking to produce oil from this country.

As far as testing goes, we are all participating in the testing since we are all subsidizing it. Well, those of us who pay taxes which is just about everyone.
 

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My son has one and has liked it - particularly all the rebates.
He is coming to the end of a lease and they wanted to sell it to him.
But then he learned it has been come to end of life ( After 3-4 years)

So I was curious are the electric cars going through a technology change? That is driving the end o flife.
 

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Good on you Han, & thanks for the update, will eventually do the same(car, & solar panels), as much of my driving is back & forth to work...by myself, will need to re-roof our Garage soon, & it's also a perfect place for solar panels on the south side of our house. For all you laughing clowns, it's not all about $money$. :flowered:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Almost everyone here where I work that drive an EV also keep the car that was replaced.

I kept my F250 and I still use it for hauling stuff. Once the range of the EV cars you can buy is more like a normal car and the cars are affordable there is no reason to keep the old car.
 

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My son has one and has liked it - particularly all the rebates.
He is coming to the end of a lease and they wanted to sell it to him.
But then he learned it has been come to end of life ( After 3-4 years)

So I was curious are the electric cars going through a technology change? That is driving the end o flife.
I am dubious about that battery claim, unless the Chevy's are not as durable and the Nissan Leaf's. Nissan warranties their batteries for 8 years/80,000 miles. Are they trying to sell him a new battery pack? Or a different car?

That said, as batteries age they do lose capacity. I think the the current generation of EV's are still using NiCad's. If they are like NiCad power tool batteries, you will have cells go bad over time and reduce the total capacity. It is possible to rebuild power tool packs by replacing the bad cells.

The new 200+ mile range EV's like the Teslas and the new Chevy Bolt are using lithium ion battery packs (giant versions of what powers your phone or laptop), which have a lot more power capacity and are supposed to last longer.

I would consider one a a second car. We have two rigs right now (my Duramax and my wife's Jetta TDI). The Jetta is the daily driver, the truck is only used if I need to tow or haul something, and driven a few miles on the weekends otherwise just to keep it in decent condition. 75% of our trips in the Jetta are 50 miles or less, and 95% are 200 miles or less. Something like a Tesla 3 or the Bolt would make a lot of sense in a household like ours, especially if the price is $35k or less before tax credits. That's puts it in the same range as pretty much any decent new car.
 

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I think his is a Nissan Leaf.

Actually he is coming to end of lease.
The end of life had nothing to do battery that I am aware of.
It is that version of the Leaf was not going to be sold anymore? So I have to assume there is some technology change happening? Yes they would like to sell him the car. Price did not make sense - particularly since it would not be made anymore and it is old

I am dubious about that battery claim, unless the Chevy's are not as durable and the Nissan Leaf's. Nissan warranties their batteries for 8 years/80,000 miles. Are they trying to sell him a new battery pack? Or a different car?

.
 

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I think his is a Nissan Leaf.

It is that version of the Leaf was not going to be sold anymore? So I have to assume there is some technology change happening?
I just did some Googling and it looks like Nissan is doing a major design change on the battery pack for 2017 that will extend the range to 140 miles. The 2018 is supposed to be a full re-design of the car that will extend the range to over 200.

Sounds like the 2017 battery pack is not compatible with the 2016 and older cars. I agree, with this big of an upgrade coming I'd wait for the new and improved cars, rather than buying the leased vehicle w/ the older NiCad batteries and 80-90 mile range.

Can read more about it here: http://www.hybridcars.com/2017-nissan-leaf-could-get-140-mile-range/
 

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Would you have bought it if the taxpayers hadn't kicked in for half?




P
 
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