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Discussion Starter #1
Even though guides and charter boat fishermen take sports fishermen out for money, do you consider them sports or commercials?

Do you think they should come under sports rules and regs, or special commercial regs?

Please try and keep this subject matter civil.

[ 06-27-2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]
 

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DBD- they are not Commercial and they are not Sportfiserman either. That's why they called are guides and charters. I'm not being my usual Smart Halibut self, I'm serious. They do not go out and harvest fish for sale to a market. They do not go out and catch fish themselves for sport (well they do, but then they aren't guiding right?).
They provide a service to sportfisherman. Sometimes you can't take the red pill or the blue pill, you gotta take the yellow one!

PS- I'm not either supporting or slamming guides or charters, simply saying that they are not either one of the choices you gave.
 

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As long as every rod in the water has a sport-licensed fisherman behind it I will consider them sporties...
 

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IMO - Guides take sportsman fishing and should only have to follow the rules that all sportfisherman have to follow. Most of the complaints that I see are about guides fishing in "MY" water or about guides that treat fellow sportsman badly either directly or through bad manners. But I want to stress that GOOD guides don't act like that. I have fished the Sandy quite a bit and Jack Glass has always been more than polite about sharing the holes. He minimizes his wake, if possible when going by in his sled and is quick to share fishing reports.
I don't have any personal experience with Dave Johnson (except here on ifish) but he has an excellent reputation and has shared TONS of information here on Ifish. How many of you have benefitted from his posts. And ALL of their customers are sportsman, just like alot of you.

JMO,
D.

[ 06-27-2003, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: drhall99 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Pretty interesting input.

Dave I can tell by your response you are a pretty cool guide.

Maybe I shouldn't have started this poll?

I've just seen a little too much pressure on some fish by the charters, and a little too much crowded conditions on many rivers created by guides.

I guess it boils down to who has the right to share the room to catch the fish and it is hard for some of us locals to swallow that sometimes when we loose a spot to fish due to maybe some "rich" out-of-towner.

Dan

[ 06-28-2003, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]
 

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Can't be either one, and is both. We need another choice.
 

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Dan, this is sure to not only spark conversation here but during many a fishing trip in the near future. I don't consider guides commercial fisherman even though they charge a fee for the service. They take sporties out and teach them techniques and areas to look for when searching out fish. In that respect, I guess you could probably say they are 'teachers'. They also are under the sportfishing regulations while providing the service.

Now for charters, they also have to follow sportfishing regs and can take out larger parties like our company does every summer, 2 boats per trip out of Ilwaco. They might be closely regarded as commercials based on the sheer numbers of fishermen they take out each day.

Both these groups are sportfishing based and need to follow the procedures for catching and also releasing the wild stock. Charters handle fish a little more roughly than guides due to the fact that they net the fish and swing it onboard before they determine the origin. So, therefore, they may inadvertently kill more nates which is something the commercial guys do.

Like anything else, there are good and bad in every group. I think we can all say that we've experienced BAD guides and charters and also the very BEST of guides and charters. :cheers:
 

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DPD,

I would like to see the charter/guide industry put on a limited entry program. That will stop every Tom, Dick and Harry with a CPR card from becoming a guide (I know I oversimplified it). There are WAY too many unfit guides out there. I'm not saying that the majority of guides are misfits but there are enough bad ones to make it more difficult on the rest.

JMO,
D.
 

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DBD - I voted NO on both...guides and charter boat skippers (one and the same, actually) are not commercial fishermen...they're enablers. They enable the neophyte to fish like a pro...and collectively, this increases the harvest and unfortunately,in places, this translates to intense pressure on the fish. Guides & charters have to produce or they get no referrals...

I think it is time to consider a statutory limit on the number of guides...how many can the resource and other users tolerate? :whazzup:
 

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they are both commercial fisherman, they make money off the fish. deckhands on charters can sell the eggs out of a salmon to a fish house, why cant i if they are considered sportsman like me ? why in washington are charters and guides license`s sold under the commercial fishing license`s ?
 

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Interesting question, boater.
 

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Guides & charters have to produce or they get no referrals...
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">That may be truer for charters than it is for guides. The charters I've been on seemed to just want to get each person a fish and then get rid of them. There wasn't much personal interaction or service.

In the guiding world, catching fish is great but there are guides that catch a ton of fish but you wouldn't want to go fishing with them again, once would be enough.

The professional guides provide entertainment, a means to enjoy the outdoors, instruction, friendship, interaction, comfort, and usually fish.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hello Earl!

Charters handle fish a little more roughly than guides due to the fact that they net the fish and swing it onboard before they determine the origin. So, therefore, they may inadvertently kill more nates which is something the commercial guys do.
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Yea, it's a tough call. I just hate to see sports fishermen run off or deprived by a supposed sports fisherman (guide) that is making decisions based on the money he collected. Thus, the question if they are really a sports fisherman.

So, therefore, they may inadvertently kill more nates which is something the commercial guys do.
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I'm not so sure which commercial guys you are referring to but suspect the gill netters.

The commercial troll fleet handle coho a lot more responsible than the charter fleet.

Not sure about the sports fishermen, but I believe the guides in general handle the wild fish with care.

Dan

[ 06-28-2003, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]
 

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I believe they are both commercial, but by definition they are fishermen as are commercial fishers. If your vessel can legally kill 20+ fish/week for money I think you are commercial.
 

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fish_on,

If your vessel can legally kill 20+ fish/week for money I think you are commercial.
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Just to be accurate, the "vessel" can't, only a licensed sport fishermen with a sport fishing license can fish, 2 fish each or whatever the current sport fishing rules call for. (Yes...I know about the new "boat" rule on rods in the water but it's still an aspect of sport fishing based on sport license rules).

Both charter and guides are vehicles for sport fishermen to fish.

Charter and guides are an aspect of sport fishing, not commercial fishing.

Brion
 

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Commercial fisherman sells the fish. (goods) Guides/charters sell the trip (services).
 

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Anybodies boat can take 20+ fish a week. And anybody can sell the eggs from an ocean caught salmon.

Guides are a meshing of both worlds, but lost sailor has it, one sells a service and the other sells the product.
 

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Without the product the service is worthless, they are selling the product!
 
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