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Discussion Starter #1
A good freind stopped by last night who is a guide, he took three dudes out fishing, fished em all day and got em fish but seems they where undercover feds, he did nothing to break the law, this is how he makes his living, but in fine print you cant guide or charter people below Astoria bridge, without a CHARTER LICENSE, WHICH YOU CANT BUY, 15 guides from washington got nailed, my freinds boat is locked up till this tuesday...People listen to me, the charter industry started this sting opertion, along with the netters, they are tied together,,, my freind would have never been there if he would have known,the last thing you do is break the law when you are a guide. He also said the feds are a bunch of (unmentionables), hard to deal with, very proud of themselves, people you live in a great nation, but dont trust our government to much, i dont...this is a quote from one of the feds upon my buudy getting arrested, " we rule the roost, here and everywhere, we can make this really, really hard on you".......Heres my quote " you will bleed just like me."---- you cant beleive how much this ticks me off, maybe a warning for these guys, they didnt know.....

[ 08-26-2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: [email protected] ]
 

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Is it because his lic is only good in freshwater and below the bridge is considered salt??

Interested to see how this plays out.

Mark and the dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Flatfish that might be, he doing some research
 

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I spoke w/ a guide from Washington who told me that he had to have an Oregon guide license so he could guide bouy 10. He said the two states had differen't rules. :shrug: I do not know for sure but that is what I was told.
 

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With a Washington guide license you can't guide for salmon below the Longview/Kelso bridge.
For that you need a Salmon charter license, which the state of Washington have not issued scense 1977. To get one you need to buy one from someone who is selling their old charter license..... which sell for between $15,000 and $25,000 and then you pay the state like $450.00 a year to keep current........ for said reasons many Washington guides buy an outa state Oregon guide license to guide the lower river.
 

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Licensed Washington guides are not allowed to work the CR below the Longview Bridge without a charter license. Washington charter licenses are not easy to come by. If you are licensed in Oregon, you can work this area, but only if you pick up and drop off your customers on the Oregon shore. It's a bad law, based on greed and should be changed in my opinion. This law was pushed by the Washington charters to try and keep the small operators from competing. Evidently, I had an agent on my boat this week but I launch from Oregon and didn't have a problem. How do we get this law changed?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
thanks for the info, dont you guys think a warning should have been in place first? To be honest i dont keep up on all the laws, its hard, there are too many and they change yearly. Washington State is the worst state for game management.....
 

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If its a Washington State law, why are the Feds enforcing it? Isn't the guide responsible for knowing what the law is? I've read that the Columbia River ends at B-8. You'd think they should be able to guide down to that piont.
 

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Like I said in another post, Oregon is getting short shafted on this one. Every guide knows he has to have a Charter license to fish salt or if a Washington guide they should know the rules of their own state. Charter licenses are available in Oregon to anyone with a guides license and the proper coast guard license. Insurance is also an issue. If you are not licensed to fish an area how can you be covered by insurance? Seems to me these guys were taking an awful chance with their clients. Oregon needs to get in step with Washington on the Charter license issue.
 

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found this on the coast guard website,

Coast Guard cites, seizes three Washington charter vessels


A Coast Guard boarding team from Station Cape Disappointment cited and terminated three Chinook, Wash., charter-fishing vessels Aug. 19, 2003, after safety inspections revealed multiple violations.

All of the charter services involved, Steve’s Guide Service’s, Erik’s Fishing Service and Tightline Guide Service, were cited for their failure to carry type I personal floatation devices or documentation of their participation in a random drug testing program. Two of the three vessels also had improperly mounted fire extinguishers as well as lack of proper distress signal devices.

The safety inspection was carried out in conjunction with an Aug. 19 Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife case. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife investigation charged the three vessels involved with illegal charter guide services from the Port of Chinook, Wash., where they were operating without a Washington State Limited Entry Salmon Charter License.

Upon returning to port with Salmon on board, officers from the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife detained the operators, loaded the charter vessels on trailers and moved them to a secure area of the marina to be inventoried by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife and inspected for safety by the Coast Guard.

The vessels have been seized and are being stored by the Coast Guard. The cases are pending prosecution.

For information on Coast Guard involvement, contact Public Affairs Specialist 3rd class Kurt Fredrickon at (206) 220-7237. For information on the Department of Fish and Wildlife case contact Craig Bartlett, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife public information officer at (360) 902-2259.
 

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I believe you can be insured without being properly licensed yet. You need the proof of insurance to even get the license.
 

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Give me a break! Ignorance is NO excuse. When your friend entered into the business, he took upon himself to know the rules, all of them, not just the ones that seemed convenient to read. Now that he's been caught breaking the law, crying he didn't know doesn't cut it.

Now, was the punishment a little steep and are the Feds abusing their power some? Possibly, but that's a whole seperate issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
blackdog, give me a break, breaking the rule that was broken, isnt the issue here, they didnt read the rules, ignorance of the law is no excuse.. that i agree,,, but a simple warning would have been prompt here.. there is a ton of guides out there that didnt get it,,,,, the feds and gammies dont watch the gill netters or Indians that close, I KNOW BECOUSE I LIVE HERE AND LIVE ON THE WATER and see it every year.....have you ever seen a netter unload from netting the river from bonneville dam to I-205?

[ 08-25-2003, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]
 

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All guides need to know the rules and abide by them, no question.

However, if Oregon gets in step with Washington on the Charter license issue, does that mean that the Columbia River below the Longview Bridge and Tillamook Bay (and most other estuaries) downstream from 101 bridges would be off limits to all guides (Oregon and Washington),unless you carry a limited entry charter license, last issued in 1977?
 

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I don't see how you can state

"... he did nothing to break the law, this is how he makes his living, ..."

as it appears from what you wrote that he was a washington guide that does not have a charter license

the behaviour of the feds, the discrepency between Or. and Wa. is irrelevant.

I don't see why handing out a warning is gonna stop this kind of illegal behavior, almost sends a green light for any "guide" to come and break the law.

[ 08-25-2003, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: El-Kabong ]
 

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Fishstik,
You might want to edit your posts a little. Personal attacks will get this thread closed and possibly get you booted. Stick with the facts, and present your case. Just a friendly heads-up.
 

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Believe me when I say anybody with a 30,000 dollar boat licensed to guide in Washington is well aware of the regulations of the lower Columbia!!! So these guides were breaking the law and will recieve the punishment they are do. I know of alot of guides in washington that occasionally perform the same services with out proper documentation and its only a matter of time before the bell tolls, so I think WDF is right on trying to bust the ones that are constantly abusing the resource! I don't think their is any ajenda of the commercial or charter association trying to curve this practice more than just a tip from some one that new these individuals were just breaking the rules!PEACE
 

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fishstix you say a warning? Well tell me this ,was this the first time he preformed this act and was he totally ignorant of the law (no excuse)? How long had he been making money doing this?
 

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I think it is really funny the feds had this "guide" take them out "all day and get em fish" and then busted him. :laugh:

It would seem they would have enough evidence once the bridge was crossed and the first fish was caught.

No sympathy from me. :hoboy:

Joe
 

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To all;
Heads up, anyway. OUR tax dollars at work against us again, or is it in our favor??!! If you are in the buisness, know the rules for your state, or expect this kind of punishment. Fishing locally, guides allow everyone the pleasure of the catch, teach newbee's, BUT.... why, when everyone else is trolling around in a nice circle, do the guides then decide to spot an anchor, or go against the grain trolling????? I understand makeing a buck off people that can't, but haven't you cussed at least once for the line snag of a guide going the wrong way??? Every trip. Let it be known; I'll cut the line out of my prop before it makes me angry, anymore. Sorry guys, just my opinion, grain of salt. XSive
 
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