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Every time you get exposed, your resistance should go up. Call it your booster shot(s). Problem is not knowing when/if you got exposed. Being in the same room with a carrier does not guarantee exposure (pretty unlikely if person is asymptomatic) unlike the shot you know you got.
And doesn't that also depend on what strain you had and what strain you are subsequently exposed too? Winterkill, how close to the original strain infection is natural infection going to protect you?
 

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I’ve heard of people contracting Covid more than once. Is it possible that you indeed had Covid the first time?

Possible?
I was far sicker on the second go around so very unlikely. I have read about second infections but from my understanding they are rare and usually very mild. A person's immune system would already have the antibody blueprint and would react very quickly to a new infection.

-E-
 

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And doesn't that also depend on what strain you had and what strain you are subsequently exposed too? Winterkill, how close to the original strain infection is natural infection going to protect you?
I won't answer for Winterkill, but when I took the test, I tested at 96%+ antibody neutralization against both Alpha and Delta variants 127 days post infection. My test also showed that I had been infected with the Alpha variant. At least in my case, the combination of the J&J vaccine and later natural infection seems to have left me largely immune to other variants.

This is why I am wanting to re-test; to see where I now sit. I have been re-exposed at work at least twice that I am aware of from co-workers who tested positive. It will be interesting to see if my immune system is still cranking out high antibody levels or if it has shifted into neutral.

-E-
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 · (Edited)
There are so many good questions in this thread. So far published data shows strong long-term protection with natural immunity. This includes protection against Delta if you've had the original variant (Wild Type).

When reinfection occurs, it is rarely severe. In fact, a reinfection study published in the New England Journal of Medicine this week showed zero critical cases and no deaths in a group of reinfected individuals. Other data has shown the overall rate of reinfection is lower than breakthrough infections.

But breakthrough infections are almost always less severe than a first infection in an unvaccinated individual. This is why it is smart to get a vaccine if you are in a high-risk demographic. Either way it is a bad, bad, bad idea to purposefully expose yourself to COVID to gain natural immunity, or just assume you've had the virus.

I wrote the about the difference between vaccine and natural immunity. You can read at the link below. This should help you understand how antibody binding is affected by new variants. The article includes data from my study.

SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines, Breakthrough Infections and Lasting Natural Immunity (cure-hub.com)
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Gee whiz!! Now there's another new variant.
And it's supposed to be even more virulent.
And vaccine resistant.

Who would ever have guessed, eh?
Considering the nature of RNA virus evolution, we should expect variants to emerge on a regular basis. It is also unlikely vaccine design, testing and production can keep up with that evolution.

That's why in the report I just linked to I wrote,
"Rapid and unpredictable mutation of RNA viruses means it will be difficult to keep vaccine design and production on pace with viral evolution. This raises questions about a vaccine's ability to offer full, long-term protection against SARS-CoV-2 variants, even with booster shots."

Also, at risk of being political, it is worth noting this: People should disentangle their opposition to authoritarian government actions from the reality of SARS-CoV-2 viral evolution and effects on infection dynamics. The virus is deadly, RNA viruses do mutate rather quick and governments are corrupt and/or incompetent. People deserve individual liberty to make their own decisions.

Those things can all be true.
 

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Considering the nature of RNA virus evolution, we should expect variants to emerge on a regular basis. It is also unlikely vaccine design, testing and production can keep up with that evolution.

That's why in the report I just linked to I wrote,

Also, at risk of being political, it is worth noting this: People should disentangle their opposition to authoritarian government actions from the reality of SARS-CoV-2 viral evolution and effects on infection dynamics. The virus is deadly, RNA viruses do mutate rather quick and governments are corrupt and/or incompetent. People deserve individual liberty to make their own decisions.

Those things can all be true.
That's why this insane vaccine/booster strategy needs to stop.
Put the cash and research into therapeutics and accept that people are going to get sick. Just like we have for the common cold, for decades.
Find a way(s) to keep people from dying with (a) therapeutic(s), supplements etc, and let people get on with their lives.
Stop the lockdowns and the isolation and the forced vaccinations.
 

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That's why this insane vaccine/booster strategy needs to stop.
Put the cash and research into therapeutics and accept that people are going to get sick. Just like we have for the common cold, for decades.
Find a way(s) to keep people from dying with (a) therapeutic(s), supplements etc, and let people get on with their lives.
Stop the lockdowns and the isolation and the forced vaccinations.
And the new pill
 

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That's why this insane vaccine/booster strategy needs to stop.
Put the cash and research into therapeutics and accept that people are going to get sick. Just like we have for the common cold, for decades.
Find a way(s) to keep people from dying with (a) therapeutic(s), supplements etc, and let people get on with their lives.
Stop the lockdowns and the isolation and the forced vaccinations.
Ling, that does nothing for the very real issue of our hospitals not being able to keep up with the traffic. We can’t wish this away or tell scientists to hurry up. Talk to people who work in hospitals. I have several in my family and circle of friends. It is fantasy land to just “let people get on with their lives.” I sure wish it was that easy. Lots of good info and discussions on this thread. I have appreciated reading it and the tone everyone has taken. The sooner this is behind us the better and we can all agree on that.
 

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Ling, that does nothing for the very real issue of our hospitals not being able to keep up with the traffic. We can’t wish this away or tell scientists to hurry up. Talk to people who work in hospitals. I have several in my family and circle of friends. It is fantasy land to just “let people get on with their lives.” I sure wish it was that easy. Lots of good info and discussions on this thread. I have appreciated reading it and the tone everyone has taken. The sooner this is behind us the better and we can all agree on that.
People need to realize there are governments and ideologies that don't want it behind us.
Trying to develop a cure-all vaccine for an RNA virus capable of mutating every 90 days is futile, and any HONEST bioscientist will tell you that.

I've talked to a number of people who work in a few hospitals.
Curiously enough, most of them aren't vaccinated and won't be. They're the ones who explained to me why therapeutics are the way to get past this mess the bureaucrats have made.
 
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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
Ling, that does nothing for the very real issue of our hospitals not being able to keep up with the traffic. We can’t wish this away or tell scientists to hurry up. Talk to people who work in hospitals. I have several in my family and circle of friends. It is fantasy land to just “let people get on with their lives.” I sure wish it was that easy. Lots of good info and discussions on this thread. I have appreciated reading it and the tone everyone has taken. The sooner this is behind us the better and we can all agree on that.
The "hospitals overflowing" argument for heavy handed public policy is misleading, or naive in my opinion. Because that argument prevents people from asking why our medical system is so fragile? It also ignores risk stratification for severe COVID-19.

Our current medical system is insanely bureaucratic. Drug and medical device approvals take far too long and our credential-based system for training medical professionals prevents care from being delivered at an economy of scale. Not to mention the weaker product (trained medical professionals) being produced by centralized medical education systems.
 

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The "hospitals overflowing" argument for heavy handed public policy is misleading, or naive in my opinion. Because that argument prevents people from asking why our medical system is so fragile? It also ignores risk stratification for severe COVID-19.

Our current medical system is insanely bureaucratic. Drug and medical device approvals take far too long and our credential-based system for training medical professionals prevents care from being delivered at an economy of scale. Not to mention the weaker product (trained medical professionals) being produced by centralized medical education systems.
You cover quite a few pieces in this response, much of it I agree with. But as much as you or I or anyone would like to talk about the medical system we SHOULD have, in my mind we have to stay rooted in reality and talk about the system we DO have. A system that like you say is overly bureaucratic, is also too costly and increasingly prioritizes and directs money to non providers- administrators and drug industry bigwigs.

I don't think this is an "either/or" issue. There are more options that either "heavy handed public policy" or "let people get on with their lives." The current US hospital system is broken (agree) but pretending it is something it is not, to my mind, won't get us very far towards putting this behind us.

Sidenote and not as relevant to this thread but interesting to me... I don't know if I agree with your argument about a "weak product." Do you mean to say the doctors and nurses are poorly trained or that our system produces too few of them?
 

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Been wunderin' the same thing????

Hot off the press.... although it never made the press.

Friend high up in nursing at a well known establishment reports, several member of staff attended a party last weekend, dunno what day specifically. Come Monday AM, one vaccinated individual with symptoms came to work, got tested which ultimately produced positive results. Several more (don't know how many total) who attended the party got tested and eight, (co-workers) vaccinated but asymptomatic persons, tested positive. Limited information I know. The question is, how much time has to elapse for an actual exposure to produce a positive test? It certainly isn't instantaneous and not the same for every individual based on level of exposure and body's natural defenses.
 

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Lots of good information here about variants, ability of vaccines to address them and how basic precautions limit spread, thereby limiting variants


And this one covers efforts to develop a universal vaccine ($200m invested) and challenges (no universal flu vaccine, though SARS is less complex).


Been enjoying this discussion and have appreciated focus has stayed on Winterkill's research, but seems to be taking a bit of a turn to include more opinions and even conspiracies.

This is worthwhile information to have. Optimism bias can help explain why we want to believe we had covid and gained natural immunity, independent of data to the contrary. Learned about optimism bias years ago and it has really changed the way I look at my own beliefs and decision-making processes.

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Something I didn’t see discussed here (maybe I missed it) is rate of false negative antibody tests which, per this article, can range from 0-30%. I tested negative in both Winterkill's and Quest Diagnostic's antibody tests, but still believe there is a chance I had covid. Of course, maybe that's just my optimism bias at work. ;)
 

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These ideas, beliefs or whatever some of you want to call it with statistics and numbers are just whatever you want to think. I have 3 daughters working in hospitals right now and they have been since this covid crap started. What I can tell you is all 3 girls will tell you-- 9 out of 10 people in the ICU are UNVACCINATED. Get the vaccine if you want or dont get the vaccine. Sure, there has been and will be variants but you have to fight this covid crap not just throw your hands up in the air and blame the medical people who are there to take care of your sick a+s when you end up in the ICU.
 
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