Wow, this is great information...it will take some time to digest. It looks like a simple Bimini, without all the extra turns, is the best bet.

 

There is lot of "eye opening" data to digest. You are correct about the binimi and the optimal number of twist to obtain best % of breaking.
Isn't it counterintuitive? More twist can actually decrease the breaking strength.

 

All the Bimini's I've been tying and testing the line has always broke first and not the knot. I've been ising 22 turns. Mr Fisherman and Baitboy tested 30 turns and got the best results which is odd that this table shows different.

One of these days I'll get around to using my lockout racquet stringing machine to test them, but my string clamps are a bit large for 50# spectra. Works great for 16g racquet string though - which would be some BIG mono

 

Great info!

Thanks for the link, it has more info -- and CONCLUSIONS. Definitely worth reading and I've bookmarked it.
thanks
ron m

 

This data including some great charts and a ton of other info is in the August 2006 Sportfishing magazine. I have been using the 12-turn Bimini since reading the article and have had no failures.

It is easier to tie than the longer Bimini but you want to make sure that the part where you are using tension to make the line wrap over itself is perfect at the beginning. It is easy to roll the twelve turns back and forth until you get it the way you want it.

 

Crabbait, are you able to tie a Bimini at sea? It's easy enough on land, but I have not tried it in a seaway.

 

Animation of the Binimi Twist Knot... and more for the inquiring mind.

http://www.marinews.com/Bimini-Twist-391.php

 

I'd rather tie that knot on land... What about a Aussie plait?

 

"At sea" in my 23' Edwing on the northwest Pacific and "at sea" on a 38' Pacifica or 35' Bertram on the tropical Pacific are very different things!

Seriously, a Bimini is not a difficult knot to tie. It is big and you need both hands and feet but it is easier on a pitching boat than trying to thread small hooks.

 

Randy, at Harry's in Newport, and myself tested knots for about an hour and a half and came up with the following conclusions:

The Uni-Knot at exactly 8 wraps broke at 84 to 88% every time. 50 pound test Tuf line XP at 42 to 44 pounds. The eight wraps is critical. It performed as well or better than the Bimini and it is far easier to tie at sea. It also performed as well as the knot tied with Randy's slick tool.

The best knot in mono was the Crawford Eight knot. 8 pound line broke at 12 pounds consistantly.

Randy ties a lot of commercial gear and told me that his knot tying would change for the better.

 

That knot tying animation site is great but how do I slow it down? Maybe I will just watch it a dozen times?

 

It sounds like my results from a year ago were in the ballpark. It was quite frustrating to have the braid knot strength so low, and not have any explanation as to why. I'll continue using mono for tuna, and reserve the braids for deep, verticle presentations.

 

It sounds like my results from a year ago were in the ballpark. It was quite frustrating to have the braid knot strength so low, and not have any explanation as to why. I'll continue using mono for tuna, and reserve the braids for deep, verticle presentations.

I think 88% of 80lb spectra (that actually breaks at closer to 100lbs) is enough for albacore.

 

Or use the hollow core Jerry Brown and splice on a mono top shot. No knot required.

TT

 

One needs to read the complete report to determin true knot strength.

Example: Palomar Knot to terminal tackle (twice thru) Rated at 100% of tested strength - 20lb test.

Many manufactures are very conservative about lb test ratings to compesate for knot weakness. Long/short of it all, your are getting what you paid for even in the face of weakend riggings due to knots.

Read the entire report before you draw your conclusions.

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=43557


50lb Knot Strenght - Table
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=43573


Conclusions from Article:

[...Data shown in the charts leads me to several conclusions:

• If you don't need to tie your line directly to a mono leader, tie a simple twice-through palomar from a double line to tackle or (for a leader) to a swivel. When I tested this knot with 20-pound braid, the result was an average break of virtually 100 percent, the single strongest knot in this group.
• Other than that, the strongest knot was the venerable Bimini twist, either a 12- or 20-turn. (See "The Counterintuitive Bimini" for further information on this.) This creates a double line, which, versus a single main line, is by far the strongest way to connect directly to a mono or fluorocarbon leader. Other knots tested to tie directly to terminal gear just didn't cut it.
• The "90% Spectra Knot" (so named on various websites touting it) isn't — not even close. (But here's some pretty cool irony: One of these sites boasts of this knot, "When you are finished you should have ... a 70%-strength braided-line knot.")
• To tie a double line to a mono leader, the Yucatan (a.k.a. no-name or bristol) knot is the clear choice with 10 to 12 wraps offering a decided edge over fewer wraps (with somewhat stronger results in 50- versus 20-pound). A surgeon's knot tied with a double line can provide nearly as much strength, though the result is not as neat nor does it have a footprint as tiny as the Yucatan's. (Note: this knot can be tied by looping the the leader around the double line either going up away from the bottom of the double-line loop or starting up above the loop and wrapping down toward it. Per the illustration, I tie — and tested it — the latter.)
• To splice braid to braid: Just say no. I won't do it again except in the direst circumstances. When too little line remains on the spool for my taste, I'll simply spool up again. Even with a double-to-double-line splice, I couldn't get better than 59 percent with 20-pound and 63 percent with 50-pound. Unis and even more so blood knots tended to slip out before breaking.]

 

These knot strength numbers were a big concern to me last year when buying reels and line to gear up for tuna. I went the same way as paddler and went with straight mono. I like braid for vertical fishing but really shy away from that stuff when trolling. It cuts thru everything! I rigged up several 4/0 reels with 40lb and 50 lb straight mono. I may get spooled but I will have a story to tell. Mono is cheep!

 

Exactly, Pijon, and I doubt you'll get spooled. A variety of approaches will work, braid, mono, braid with topshots, etc. The albacore aren't big, so even coffee grinders with 20# test will work. Just personal preference. I'm a bit of a traditionalist, so 6/0 Senators and heavy mono appeal to me. It's a simple approach, and mono is very cheap.

I may be a bit reactionary, also. When my own testing showed braid tied to mono broke at 60% of spool strength, I called Western Filament. The guy was a bit evasive on the knot strength issue, so I decide to can it, and use braid only when it's advantages outweighed it's cost and trouble disadvantages. I simply tie a swivel onto the end of my line, clip on a bait (or chain, or bar) and go fishing. The Senators are ~$130 spooled and ready to fish, and will answer any questions put to them.

Avets and braid are new and sexy, no doubt. I even have an MXL for swimbaits. I just watched "Tribute To Tuna" again. Those guys were landing cow tuna with cane poles and heavy line. No reel, braid, etc. It was cool to see them slapping the water with their poles when putting the lures back in to excite the fish.

Excellent article, by the way. Thanks for sharing it.

 

There has been mention of a mono to braid splice using hollow braid and super gluing the ends. Never tried it but can see the advantages when a fish draws that splice thru the guides. Braid cuts on my fingers are always in the joints and so take forever to heal and they always hurt.

I have given up wrapping it around a cleat when I snag the south jetty. The fish club is much faster and time is of the essence with the current out there.

For tuna I bought a couple penn 113hl's (lefty's), and a newell 4/0 and a daiwa 450. The daiwa probly has similar line capacity to a 113wide. I did a number of searches of trolling line size on a couple boards and a lot of the guys south of us use 30lb. Seems like most of the guys here use 50 so I have some with 40 and some with 50. Izorline as I have been using it for a number of years and have gained a lot of confidence in it.

I stumbled onto your post on Batc on your LaPush trip report with the pics.
Great post! Rigging your boat in the snow is some sort of sign though.

 

To splice braid to braid: Just say no. I won't do it again except in the direst circumstances. When too little line remains on the spool for my taste, I'll simply spool up again. Even with a double-to-double-line splice, I couldn't get better than 59 percent with 20-pound and 63 percent with 50-pound. Unis and even more so blood knots tended to slip out before breaking.]

No super glue fans out there? Had the same problem with blood knots until someone on the site posted the super glue blood knot. My limited testing had the line breaking before the knot every time.

Be interesting to see how this would work on other knots

stevej

 

Good stuff. I would love to see the statistics behind their testing. Line is mass produced, and I am sure there are accepted limits of variability with respect to overall roughness of the braid, diameter, and break strength. How many lots did they test? How far apart in time were they manufactured? What was the wear state on the tooling when the lots were manufactured?

With the number of lines and knots available, I am not sure that seeing one rated within 10% of the next (or maybe even 50%) is statistically meaningful. The number of tests you would have to run would be HUGE.

I am not going to do a DOE on it, but my gut says that if you took into account different hardness, roughness, diameter, etc. of all the lines involved (mono and spectra), AND their manufacturing tolerances, and the knots, and their assembly tolerances (every how many wraps, how many times you twisted the line as you wrapped, how much lubricant used when snugging it up), you would find your mileage would vary considerably.

I take it all with a grain of salt. Learn a few knots, one for each purpose, learn them well, tie them repeatably, and if you aren't pulling them out on fish, you win.