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Old 12-23-2013, 06:52 PM   #61
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Default Re: Seeking Traditional Archery/Bow Hunting Tips!

Have 4 or 5 dozen arrows to get finished for other guys, then I'm going to build some new bullets for myself ...douglas fir shafts footed with Wenge.

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Old 12-23-2013, 09:44 PM   #62
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Ok... Ron, what does "footed" mean? And what is its purpose?
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:56 AM   #63
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Ok... Ron, what does "footed" mean? And what is its purpose?
"footed" is a process of splicing a piece of wood to the point end of the shaft, usually a hardwood. These days it's mostly done to add some weight to front of the arrow and just because they look totally awesome!.

Originally it added weight forward, but also was used to repair an arrow that had broke next to the point. Since most arrow shafts come as 32" from the manufacturer, and footing them makes them a couple inches longer, so somebody with a real long draw would benefit from having footed shafts.

Wenge, black walnut, purpleheart are some of the popular woods used for footing arrows.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:15 AM   #64
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Ok, got it! Thanks! It does look cool no doubt. Nice work sir!
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:49 AM   #65
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Be sure to feed your passion for stickbows cause your going to get frustrated, other peoples negative talk, and a hundred other things will interfere to get you depressed and discouraged. So make some good friends with other folks who are extreme stickbow hunters, get some hunting subscriptions, get involved with that gets you motivated and holds you accountable. This will help you pull through the dry spells.
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:19 AM   #66
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Did you foot the shaft yourself? This is something I've been wanting to learn to do.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:09 AM   #67
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To make a great footed shafts, like the ones Ron has posted, you really need the proper jigs. Also as you sand them down you have the two different densities of wood to deal with. If you aren't careful you will sand more wood off of the softwood than the hardwood footing. Done right it will allow you to get the darts to terminate at the same distance on the shafts.
Steve at Surewood Shafts and myself are setting up equipment in my shop to make these for sale.

Last edited by snag32; 12-26-2013 at 10:10 AM. Reason: more info.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:31 AM   #68
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Did you foot the shaft yourself? This is something I've been wanting to learn to do.
No, I went over to Hood River to get some arrow boxes from Ted Fry at Raptor Archery, while sitting around shooting the BS my eyes fell upon these shafts and I had to bring them home with me!

Years ago I made some footed shafts with two legs by hand, and used black walnut. I shot a buck with one of those arrows about 15 years ago.

Like snag says, you need the jig to really make them look tricked out. I used to have a photo of some arrows where the footing was in a spiral...that blew my mind out of the water!

I found it in my photobucket.....look at these arrows!

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Old 12-27-2013, 09:05 AM   #69
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This has been a great thread. Does anyone know what it would take to get a a Traditional site here on Ifish? Would there be enough interest?
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #70
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No, I went over to Hood River to get some arrow boxes from Ted Fry at Raptor Archery, while sitting around shooting the BS my eyes fell upon these shafts and I had to bring them home with me!

Years ago I made some footed shafts with two legs by hand, and used black walnut. I shot a buck with one of those arrows about 15 years ago.

Like snag says, you need the jig to really make them look tricked out. I used to have a photo of some arrows where the footing was in a spiral...that blew my mind out of the water!

I found it in my photobucket.....look at these arrows!

Those look cool. I think I remember Bob Burtton doing something like that. I think i'm going to have to try and make some footed shafts up. I got a video with all the jig dimensions. Might be a cure for the cabin fever.

I thinks a traditional site on ifish would be great. There is an Oregon specific forum on Trad Gang. Its not getting used as much as it should.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:54 AM   #71
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Those arrows are drop dead gorgeous!!! I'd feel bad if I shot and lost an arrow...Its a good thing I never miss...
Is Dave Doran of Archery Past of Bend Oregon still shooting, selling, and promoting traditional archery? That man is the hardest working person and a legend in my book.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:36 PM   #72
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As far as I know he is. He and Nancy were at most of the shoots last year with the trailer. I'd expect to see them at the TAO banquet unless they are at another show.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:19 PM   #73
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:36 PM   #74
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:26 AM   #75
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Now we're talkin! I listened to guy on youtube talk about how he's this extreme elk bowhunter while he proceeded to shoot out to 180 yards with his 80% letoff, seven sight pin, camo coordinated, sponsored, guided elk hunt and wanted me to believe that he's the man. Really? Actually I'd be more sympathetic if he and others would refered to themselves as compounders, why be ashamed? If they prefer that type of equipment, go for it. I understand how hard it is to learn traditional archery gear, thats why it has its own record books and organizations. Its an entirely different piece of equipment. But when you get paid and idiolized, ideals sometimes go right out the window. Awhile back I learned of another celebrity compounder getting caught fudging the regulations. The day is coming when estate hunting is going to be more the norm, I'm afraid. But what really blew my mind is when I have heard some of these individuals bad mouth traditional archery, the original bows and the folks that use them. Why? I was even told that I should be afraid of getting beat up by the compounder hunters while in the woods!!! What has bowhunting become and worse, where is it going? I support OBH and TAO but does OBH support TAO? I know TAO supports OBH. So much more is involved with stickbows, its so exciting and adventureous, the opportunity is unlimited and I can hardly contain myself. Is there something wrong me being "old school."
Anyway what do I know, I have no sponsores, make no killing dvds, do no seminars, no books and can't afford a guided hunt. But I'm going hunting anyway with my stickbow and in my favorite blue jeans. Happy New Years
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:43 AM   #76
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"I understand how hard it is to learn traditional archery gear"....have to respectfully disagree with this. If you love something all the effort you put into it is not difficult, it is just part of the journey. But if you don't like it and want to take an easier path that's the other option. If guys are up to real challenge then trad archery is the way.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:28 PM   #77
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Ok! Things I have learned about my new (to me) Wes Wallace Mentor.

1) It shoots way better when I really bare down on the "spot"..

2) It's sweet BH (Brace Height) spot is 7" 15/16. I worked the BH down to 7" and up to 8" 1/8. 7"15/16 seems to be the sweet spot?

3) The nock height seems a little high too me?? But it seems to like it @ 11/16.

The below group is from 12 yards, with the settings listed above.



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Old 01-01-2014, 05:05 PM   #78
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Good grouping. How's the arrow flight? I like to start at 1/4" above center. If you can see the arrow porpoising, nock goes up and down, then the nock pt. is too low. Raise it a little at a time until it disappears. If the nock end drops low your nock pt. is too high. So raise it a little at a time until disappears. 11/16" is not terribly high. I get great arrow flight out of a couple of recurves with one liking 10/16" (5/8") and the other 12/16 (3/4"). But I shoot 3 under and that does make a difference too.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:40 PM   #79
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Thanks! Arrow flight is good for the most part.. every once in awhile, I will get a flyer, probably as a result of bad form or an erratic release???
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:47 PM   #80
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Looking good for only having it for a few days!

Like I said, my Blacktail prefers a high brace height.

I got out and shot today as well, but didn't take any pics.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:03 PM   #81
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Looks like you are well on your way...I would stay at that distance awhile before you move out...It is tempting to step back and see what you can do at distance,but that leads to bad habits as you are always changing things trying to compensate...

Get 12 down pat, then move out to, say, 15..

Take your time...

Good luck
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:12 PM   #82
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Thanks Ron & Bill.... Yeah, I can see how moving back is tempting. I try suppress my confidence a little, and stay close, to work on conditioning and form. I am excited for my 2014 journey...
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:16 AM   #83
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I looked back through the thread, and didn't see where I had asked this yet. What broadhead does everyone shoot? I see oldoregon shoots 125 grain Magnus 2 blade... Also, what size of BH?
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:52 AM   #84
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I looked back through the thread, and didn't see where I had asked this yet. What broadhead does everyone shoot? I see oldoregon shoots 125 grain Magnus 2 blade... Also, what size of BH?
125 gr. 3-blade Wensel Woodsman ... long and slender, fly extremely straight, and the 3-blade opens up a hole for wicked blood trailing a blind man can follow. Easy to sharpen, or resharpen.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:00 AM   #85
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All sorts of options with bh's. I like the Eclipse 2 blade and STOS. They have proven to work really well. Recently I forked over more money then usually for bh's and bought some Tuffheads. They are a 3:1 length to width ratio that provides great penetration. They also are the sharpest heads out of the box that I have seen. Hope to put them to the test this year.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:54 AM   #86
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125 gr. 3-blade Wensel Woodsman ... long and slender, fly extremely straight, and the 3-blade opens up a hole for wicked blood trailing a blind man can follow. Easy to sharpen, or resharpen.
Ron- Have you ever had a Woodsman whistle? I went to the website, watched them shoot BH's into a block... Cool!

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All sorts of options with bh's. I like the Eclipse 2 blade and STOS. They have proven to work really well. Recently I forked over more money then usually for bh's and bought some Tuffheads. They are a 3:1 length to width ratio that provides great penetration. They also are the sharpest heads out of the box that I have seen. Hope to put them to the test this year.
snag32- Those Tuffheads look nasty... but spendy...
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:20 PM   #87
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Ron- Have you ever had a Woodsman whistle?:
No, but I ran a chainsaw for almost 40 years.

Never had a buck or bull jump the string when a Woodsman is whistling their direction! I need to take more blood photos...

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Old 01-02-2014, 12:49 PM   #88
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Wow! I do believe that is the 1st elk pic I have seen you post??? Seen a ton of bucks.... Thanks for sharing!
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:01 PM   #89
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Thanks Ron & Bill.... Yeah, I can see how moving back is tempting. I try suppress my confidence a little, and stay close, to work on conditioning and form. I am excited for my 2014 journey...
VERY IMPORTANT!!!

Have fun....it's fun to rely on YOU, not gadgets to get you proficient!!

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Old 01-02-2014, 01:12 PM   #90
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Sliverpicker,

Wasn't one of the reasons for footing was that when making arrows it was actually easier to replace the heads than it was the shaft and feathers and that by having the front break off an archer would be able to make a new arrow from the back end?
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:31 PM   #91
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Sliverpicker,

Wasn't one of the reasons for footing was that when making arrows it was actually easier to replace the heads than it was the shaft and feathers and that by having the front break off an archer would be able to make a new arrow from the back end?
Yes sir! I tried to explain that in post #63, but I have a way blubbering over myself. "Originally it added weight forward, but also was used to repair an arrow that had broke next to the point."
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:37 PM   #92
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I looked back through the thread, and didn't see where I had asked this yet. What broadhead does everyone shoot? I see oldoregon shoots 125 grain Magnus 2 blade... Also, what size of BH?
I use the 125 grain Wenzel Elite and the Woodsman. Never a problem with noise as Ron mentioned. I find it easier to sharpen the 3 blade heads over 2 blade. A file and then a flat stone with heavy and fine grit with a little oil.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:49 PM   #93
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What files and stones, sharpeners do you guys use on the woodsman?
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:45 PM   #94
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I called in this bull in some heavy reprod and made a 16 yard shot with a Wensel...He went down so fast I couldn't find him for a while...He went about 20 feet and died in a hole...Several loops around and no blood found I started getting nervous..

Wensels kill almost to good...LOL

A file works best with Wensels...I like a horse shoe file...The aggressive teeth put a wicked edge on a Wensel..


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Old 01-03-2014, 06:05 AM   #95
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Wow! I do believe that is the 1st elk pic I have seen you post??? Seen a ton of bucks.... Thanks for sharing!
Haven't killed a bull in several years, lots of close encounters...but not my recurve close!

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I called in this bull in some heavy reprod and made a 16 yard shot with a Wensel...He went down so fast I couldn't find him for a while...He went about 20 feet and died in a hole...Several loops around and no blood found I started getting nervous..

Wensels kill almost to good...LOL

A file works best with Wensels...I like a horse shoe file...The aggressive teeth put a wicked edge on a Wensel..


Take notice of the facepaint and designer camo britches Bill is sporting.

Been meaning to ask how the shoulder is feeling Bill? Stay off those oars, make BroKen do the paddlin!
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:11 AM   #96
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What files and stones, sharpeners do you guys use on the woodsman?
I use a flat file with fairly fine teeth. Had some left over from taking the rakers down on the saw chains, they work perfectly!

I initially clamp the Wensel Woodsman in my vise and go across two blades, then rotate. They're easy to touch up in the field during a break in the action.

I bought a pack of the Woodsman Elites last summer, but didn't get any blood on them in 2013. They look and fly just as good as the original WW's.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:30 AM   #97
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Cool pic Bill... Do you not have any string silencers on the string? I have quite the shopping list compiled from this thread, and other e-mails, pm's.... I love it that you guys are helping me get started.. My wife? Not so much.......
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:40 AM   #98
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Zwickey Eskimos


But if you hit where you're supposed to, any sharp broadhead will work.


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Old 01-03-2014, 09:37 AM   #99
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Raghorn,

Do you notice the difference in sound between your parabolic cut feathers and your Raptor cut ones?

If you do, then you might hear and worry about the sound of a woodsman. If you don't, then you probably wont even notice.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:51 AM   #100
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I don't think I can give up the oars and bro Ken would drown us..

The shoulder has its good days and bad..But overall it is better.

I started my trad journey with a Wes Wallace Mentor..Killed my first trad elk (cow) and buck (fork) with it...

I sold it to help finance a custom bow built just for me, a Brackenbury Quest...A fine bow by all accounts,but I have always regretted selling that Wallace...I spent a lot of money and don't think I improved any over what I had, except my name is on the bow....

Even now my favorite bow is a Letalis Tellum,60 pound at 29 inches ,64 inch bow...

A what you say?? Letalis Tellum???

Neco Tellums and Letalis Tellums are a little known ,long gone bow maker from Walla Walla...Great bows...

Letalis Telum is latin for "Death Arrow".

Pretty cool Huh???

Pic of me and my Wallace..

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Old 01-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #101
RAGHORN!
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Cool Bill. I have read several posts from other guys,wishing they never got rid of their WW bows...... I like this one, can see me falling in love with it! I got it from the original owner, it was custom made for him. His name, and a message from Wes. .... Maybe i should go by the OO's name..... Then it will be custom made for me.....
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:32 PM   #102
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Yes sir! I tried to explain that in post #63, but I have a way blubbering over myself. "Originally it added weight forward, but also was used to repair an arrow that had broke next to the point."
Well, geeze, it is there. I think I'll spend the off-seaosn learning how to read.
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:56 AM   #103
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Cool Bill. I have read several posts from other guys,wishing they never got rid of their WW bows...... I like this one, can see me falling in love with it! I got it from the original owner, it was custom made for him. His name, and a message from Wes. .... Maybe i should go by the OO's name..... Then it will be custom made for me.....

I bet Wes can take that off and put your name on it

I got a Worksharp for Christmas...Ran out of knives to sharpen,so started on broadheads...

It made short work of getting these Wensels shaving sharp...This is now my "new" best way to sharpen Wensels or Snuffers...

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Old 01-04-2014, 03:23 PM   #104
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I'll need to try that on my Wenzel heads rather than a file and stone. The Work Sharp has been great on everything else I needed sharpened.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:20 PM   #105
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Very cool Bill.. Every time I see a work sharp.. I kick myself! I seen one at a garage sale a couple summers a go, brand new. 15 bucks!

I put in a order with Ron for 2 dz. practice arrows.

Wes probably could re do the name on the bow... Maybe I will ask him next time I talk to him... No big deal right now!
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:03 PM   #106
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I used a worksharp on my Zwickey Eskimos last season. Its scary how sharp they get, and its I fast and easy to use. Used them on a bear and a 4x3 muley. The head I shot the buck with was a pass thru angling shot that broke two ribs. When I pullex the broadhead out of the dirt I could still shave hair off my arm!! I was impressed
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:59 AM   #107
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Thats great info, I'm always looking for ways to improve the sharpening process. What grit of paper do you like and where do you think I should shop for that sharpener? What do you smear on the heads to keep from rusting? I've used vasiline for years.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:56 AM   #108
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Question for you guys- What is the preferred method for aiming a re curve? I hear talk of shooting instinctively, but have no experience. Do any of you or have any of you ever used a sight on your re curve like the one i use on my compound? Seems like this should be easy- was hoping for some pointers before i experiment.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:12 PM   #109
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I was probably one of the first to put a sight on a recurve. The bow was a Kodiak Hunter, don't remember what the sight was, this was back in the stoneage. Simple colored pin setup. It did improve my shooting. I eventually succumbed to a compound and used a two pin setup, no peep, for a while, I shot pretty good. Now all I use is a bare compound, fingers, just like the traditional shooters. With plenty of practice, groups will have four out of five shafts touching at over 30 yards. It is my opinion that sights only help beyond 40 yards. Not many traditional shooters shooting much if any farther than that.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:32 PM   #110
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I was probably one of the first to put a sight on a recurve. The bow was a Kodiak Hunter, don't remember what the sight was, this was back in the stoneage. Simple colored pin setup. It did improve my shooting. I eventually succumbed to a compound and used a two pin setup, no peep, for a while, I shot pretty good. Now all I use is a bare compound, fingers, just like the traditional shooters. With plenty of practice, groups will have four out of five shafts touching at over 30 yards. It is my opinion that sights only help beyond 40 yards. Not many traditional shooters shooting much if any farther than that.
I have attached a tru glo 3 pin to my sage. Not sure how to aim... Did you have a peep on the string?
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:54 AM   #111
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If you don't rely on sights you will develop the ability to look at the intended target and you will often times hit it. Of course coming to a consistant anchor point is very important. Be patient and shoot like this for many days and your grouping will improve.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:04 AM   #112
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Just finished dying some turkey feathers and making these Surewood Shafts into arrows. Surewood made some shafts from Tamarack a few years ago. Finally made them into arrows for my quiver.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:21 AM   #113
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Get your reservations in! Or, just spend a great day listening to some great speakers: Larry D. Jones, Jamie Hutchinson, and Shawn Woods!

BU
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:14 AM   #114
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Question for you guys- What is the preferred method for aiming a re curve? I hear talk of shooting instinctively, but have no experience.
Have you ever thrown a baseball to a friend? You look at the other guy and just throw the ball, you don't stop to calculate the distance, your eyes see the target and the brain automatically adjusts and tells you how hard to throw to cover the distance and hit the the glove in his hand with the ball.

You use the same fundamentals when you shoot an arrow from a bow without sights. Look at your target, point your bow hand at the target and it automatically adjusts for the distance as you draw the arrow.

It sounds more confusing then it is, but in reality it's the most simple and fastest way to shoot a bow. There's no need to pack a rangefinder and dick around with a release mechanism...just look, point, and release. Man has been using this same basic concept for thousands of years. Before the bow and arrow it was an atlatl with a long dart.

Stay simple my friends!
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:19 AM   #115
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I truly admire you guys. You are "hunters" in the true sense of the word and you know that you have to practice and I'm sure all of you do. I don't know if'n I'll ever be man enough...
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:38 AM   #116
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Salmon Mike: No peep.

Here's a good way to practice if you've got the room. When walking back from the target, I start throwing arrows, one at a time and where they land, is where I shoot from. Sometimes I'll shoot from the closest arrow first, sometimes the farthest. Gives a person a bit of a rest between shots so you feel fresh for each one.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:52 AM   #117
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Thanks for the feed back guys! I decided to experiment with the sight. Got my first kill on the second shot. A bottle of pautzkes red rock fish attractant on the shelf from behind my shooting block. What a mess! This was my first time shooting a broad head as well. Put 2 arrows right in the wall. The sight puts my aim high. I adjusted it down about as far as i'm comfortable with. Seems like a bit of a hassle to try to figure it out, so tonight i will remove the site, and try to shoot instinctively as best i can. At least i know how far the sight puts my shot off. Now if i can figure out how to stabilize my shots from left-right. Arrows are not sticking in straight. Is this due to my "newbee" release technique? A mechanical release is a must for me.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:54 AM   #118
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Where you located? Some times shooting with someone that can show you the ropes can be a big help.
I gave up my compound, sights and release in 2000. It's been the best thing I've done.
I'm in Salem, if your in the area PM me.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:30 PM   #119
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practice, practice.....practice! im good out to 23 yrds as of now and i hope to take my first traditional kill this year, starting with turkey. I do have a question... if im a left hand shooter and would like to fletch my own arrows with feathers for a left spin, what wing for feathers right or left would i use?
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:11 AM   #120
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I will say what I think.. but you better defer to the more experienced...

If you want a left spin? I would think you want left wing feathers..???

I don't think it matters that your left or right handed and what wing feather you shoot? The important thing is to make sure you have all the same wing feather... don't want to mix left/right wing feathers...

I didn't stay in Holiday inn last night...... but I did go to Raptor Archery on Friday....... Ted and I talked(well, he talked and I listened) about arrow building....


Oh BTW! Good shooting, thanks for sharing...
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