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Old 09-20-2020, 08:41 PM   #1
Hydrophilic
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Default Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

It is time to stop cooking our fish

Habitat Conservation Plan recently proposed and will be reviewed by board of forestry in the following weeks.

https://www.oregon.gov/odf/board/Doc...forest-hcp.pdf

Big change for salmon is riparian zones requirements for state forests. A riparian zone is the width of trees left next to a river. If you log the trees to the bank there is no shade for the river and it overheats which is lethal for salmon and other native fish.

Oregon has the worst riparian zone laws on the west coast by far.

Currently: 50-100 feet with harvest activity allowed within this to 25 feet, very little buffer on smaller feeder streams.

Proposed: 120 feet minimum (horizontal distance measurement), NO harvest activity within this zone.

Small perineal non fish bearing feeder streams will also have the 120 feet buffer zone for the first 500 feet upstream from confluence with fish bearing stream.



Some much needed protections for other endangered wildlife also included. An interesting document worth browsing for those interested


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Old 09-20-2020, 09:41 PM   #2
flatman
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

why do we have to go to the board of loggers. when there is a jail proposal they dont have to get the prisoners okay.
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Old 09-21-2020, 06:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Hydrophilic- Thanks for posting this. How do the proposed OR riparian zone buffers compare to WA or CA? I’m all for the change; it would be a major improvement.
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Old 09-21-2020, 08:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

ChateauL, here is the info I am using



In Oregon, you can have harvest activity within the buffer zone. Below picture illustrates the general idea - see riparian management zone and compare to riparian reserve zone.



So even though Oregon has a 50-100 foot buffer zone, there can be harvest activity within this buffer zone to the 20-25 foot width. I have seen the logging companies give the 50-100 foot buffer when its along a highway or road and then drop down to the 20 foot buffer in areas not visible from the road.

https://www.oregon.gov/ODF/Documents...nFactsheet.pdf

Here is California’s, or at least the data I have been using.






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Old 09-21-2020, 09:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

It would be nice to go look at a creek in a clearcut, and NOT see all the trees near it blown down after the first wind event.

Buffers only work if the trees can stand. If the ground becomes unstable due to saturation, and the trees that were left standing fall over, something needs to change.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

"Society as a whole isn't willing to what's necessary to protect wild fish habitat."
And that is why America invented the judicial branch of government.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

It doesn't protect human habitat either.
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:25 AM   #8
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Default Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

I wasn’t aware of this, glad the state wasnt able to sell it off a few years ago. OSU’s HJ Andrews experimental forest is awesome, wonder what their plans are here, and hopefully access is still allowed for hunters and anglers.

From the link in my first post, referring to Elliot state forest:

“DSL is developing the HCP in close collaboration with Oregon State University, which currently intends to acquire the forest and transform it into a research forest.”


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Old 09-21-2020, 10:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

I hope this goes through. I'm a logging supporter but I've always been blown away by the lack of reasonable buffer zones around our important watersheds.

I happen to be in NE Oregon archery hunting right now. I've been in a number of big draws with late season running creeks that are incredibly important habitat. The temperature in those draws is always 20 degrees cooler because of the trees.

I've noticed signs posted on trees that read "Old Growth Trees for habitat management, do not cut beyond here".

That's great except the signs are less than 50 yards from the creek. Seems to me they need to be more like 150.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Hydrophilic- Thanks for the comparative riparian zone harvest specs. I hope they approve at least the proposed changes. I looked at the link in the original post. That’s a big file! 384 pages. I’ll read more of it when I have a chance. One thought came to mind. The streamside buffers are critical for water quality including temperatures. I’d like to see ODF include a water temp metric in their assessments of compliance. If, because of sloppy buffer management the water temp goes above the habitat requirements, then the contractors would have to perform timely mitigation measures to get the streams back in compliance. Bonds would be necessary for the costs. Just a thought, and not a snowflake’s chance, but more specific accountability is needed.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

If this new proposal doesn't include protecting non fish bearing streams, then it's just lipstick.
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Old 09-21-2020, 12:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Various posts in this thread have mixed-up private, state, and federal lands. The riparian regs differ among all of these ownerships. Important to get the ownership correct for discussing virtually all points of comparison and possible change.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Thanks, are you referring to the California pic I posted? Just noticed it says private land, not state land. I could not find my old source but remembered it was right around that.


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Old 09-21-2020, 02:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

As a surveyor who marks a lot of logging job boundaries I would say it would be importiant to say if it was horizontal distance(how maps are made) or slope distance because most of our rivers have trees hundreds of feet off the river but only 50 ft from the river if you know what I'm saying.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

From what I have read and heard, it is horizontal


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Old 09-21-2020, 06:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Reading and hearing is a long way off from going and seeing. I make my living in the timber industry but I know we can do better when it comes to buffers but I also think it will only come with replanting. They are going to take what they can today these forests and the endless reprod are multi generational but if this generation plants back a little further it might fix a problem the money won't? Maybe legislation on replanting buffers would be an easier GET? Just typing on the couch here...
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

replanting .. that leaves a long period of ruined streams. loggers dont get it. its all take and take some more. why on earth do you have to go right to the stream bank. only for gluttonous, thats the only reason.


what really gets me is it is allowed on public land. only because the graft is in place in some form.


if fishermen and sportspeople protested as much as one tenth as much as they do in portland it would change quickly.
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Old 09-23-2020, 06:35 AM   #18
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Thumbs down Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrophilic View Post
From what I have read and heard, it is horizontal


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Currently, Oregon typically measures slope distance

Quote:
OAR 629-635-0310
Riparian Management Area Widths for Streams

(1)(a) The riparian management area widths for streams are designated for each stream type as shown in Table 1.

(b) Except as indicated in section (2), operators shall measure the riparian management area width as a slope distance from the high water level of main channels.

(c) Notwithstanding the distances designated in subsection(1)(a), where wetlands or side channels extend beyond the designated riparian management area widths, operators shall expand the riparian management area as necessary to entirely include any stream-associated wetland or side channel plus at least 25 additional feet. This provision does not apply to small Type N streams.

(2) In situations where the slope immediately adjacent to the stream channel is steep exposed soil, a rock bluff or talus slope, operators shall measure the riparian management area as a horizontal distance until the top of the exposed bank, bluff or talus slope is reached. From that point, the remaining portion of the riparian management area shall be measured as a slope distance.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:07 AM   #19
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Default Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Yeah it’s pretty terrible. If the HCP, as it currently stands, actually gets implemented it will switch to horizontal...on paper at least




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Old 09-23-2020, 07:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Loggers aren't cutting anything the forester(timber company) doesn't tell them to. If the forester layed out bigger buffers that's what would be cut. The loggers don't care, they are just hired to do a service. It's like saying that kid at McDonald's made me fat.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:59 PM   #21
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Anything would be an improvement over the 25' buffer. Its a joke if you ever drive by streams you see the entire buffer blown down anyway in a few years after cutting, essentially the current rules = cut to stream & no buffer.

Did not read 373 page doc to get all the details but wonder how they came up with 120 feet? Hopefully that would be enough and definitely better but will it prevent wind from blowing every remaining tree down after cutting...seems like 200 feet would be more realistic.
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Old 10-06-2020, 03:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Supposedly the board voted 6-0 to move forward with the habitat conservation plan for state forests. 300,000 acres will be designated for long term conservation if the plan is ultimately approved.

Not perfect but a step in the right direction.


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Old 10-06-2020, 06:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrophilic View Post
Supposedly the board voted 6-0 to move forward with the habitat conservation plan for state forests. 300,000 acres will be designated for long term conservation if the plan is ultimately approved.
Not perfect but a step in the right direction.

^ THIS is a very big deal for Oregon North Coast salmon (and other species including humans.)
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:13 PM   #24
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Default Better riparian buffer zones for Oregon could be on the way: HCP



I was out on a north coast stream last month and an acquaintance familiar with the inner workings of the plan was showing me whole slopes (steep) that would be placed in habitat conservation status - well beyond the new 120 feet buffer zone. The reasoning was multi factorial and included steep slope status and older trees.


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