Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them. - www.ifish.net

Go Back   www.ifish.net > Ifish Fishing and Hunting > Ifish Hunting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-27-2020, 09:29 PM   #1
BrianMaguire
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clackamas County
Posts: 6,211
Default Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Anyone got a good contact at ODFW that can do some transplants to my property? I got the pheasant release permits and leg bands but as expected, it is just not working. What I would like are some wild caught birds, released, especially hens to my property. If anyone has ideas, contacts, etc. I am all ears. I can solve the money issue - I just need the birds. Thank you in advance.

__________________
"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
BrianMaguire is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2020, 04:33 AM   #2
jimh
King Salmon
 
jimh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Area 8-1 to 13, WA
Posts: 8,120
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Just a thought ... If it is legal to release, I think you just need to find a source for the birds. Check with field trial clubs where they get theirs. They would want them in good enough shape to fly/run, for example. I don’t know if they are wild caught or why that would matter.
__________________
Wear a PFD if you want to live. CCA Life Member. NRA Life Member.
jimh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 05:28 AM   #3
Don Fischer
King Salmon
 
Don Fischer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Antelope, Ore
Posts: 6,752
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Field trial birds in trials where birds are shot are all pen raised birds. To have a trials on wild birds where some were shot, the trial would have to be when those birds re in hunting season

I have never heard of anyone planting pen raised birds and having much success with them living. Couple problems is predator's and reproduction. I talked with the guy's at fish and game years ago producing pheasant's at Camp Adair. They told me in the first week they estimated they lost 90% of the planted birds to predator's. Then reproduction. I've raised quail and chukar both in the past. They lay eggs well but they don't sit the nest's. As I recall some years ago Oregon tried to get Red Legg's going in central Ore. Planted birds that were pen raised and lost them all! If I remember right they were planted near Friend. No clue if predator's got them first or that they simply didn't reproduce. The original Pheasant's planted in Oregon near Lebanon were imported wild strain from China. Would not surprise me that Chukar were also imported wild birds. I was told they brought cheat grass with them.

There are some places in the south where pen raised birds seem to do pretty well. But in those places it seem's they are kept in Johnny House's where they get released from and recall back in at night. Lessons predator kill but they still don't reproduce much. I say much as many years ago on Sauvie Island there was a small population of wild Bob white quail. As it was told to me they were quail left over from trials that had survived and actually sat some nest's. Haven't heard anything about them in years though so no clue if any are still around.

I was at a preserve several ears ago that had a huge pheasant pen. They planted the bird's from the pen and some found their way back. I don't recall that any trapped back into the pen though. Seeing chukar at field trials near Condon and Madras, the chukar definitely call back but the trial clubs don't put out recall traps to recover them, don't know why Expendable commodity I guess. But at Madras I've seen then re-catch them and put them back into the pens some times. Guy I knew over in Irrigon used to raise Bob White for NSTRA trials. He had about the wildest pen raised birds I ever saw. They went from a building where they were raised to the flight pen by a tunnel between the two. I believe his secret was that every year before putting chick's in the flight pen he tilled it up and planed it with cover. They were the best trial birds I ever saw.

If you want to raise bird's on your property in the wild state I suspect you'll end up feeding predator's or watching them die of old age without hatching any egg's. I tried a brush pile here where I released some pen raised Bob White into with food and water in the pile. The birds got crazy wild but they did not reproduce!I think the major problem you'll have is reproduction! Years ago I had a game bird propagation license from the state. I was told by one of the guy's at fish and game that the license would allow me to trap wild bird's to raise. I did trap a few Valley Quail and a few Huns and put them into a flight pen with pen raised birds. The pen raise birds got really wild but still wouldn't reproduce. If you could still get the license to do that, you might try and trap some wild birds and release them but, make sure you have cover and food source on your property to hold them there.
__________________
I feel sorry for the guy that has never been loved by a dog!

There's a reason I like dogs better than people!

Last edited by Don Fischer; 06-28-2020 at 05:34 AM.
Don Fischer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2020, 06:23 AM   #4
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Acquiring “wild” birds for release isn’t done and is probably illegal with the exception being for research. There aren’t enough pheasants in Oregon to trap anyhow and have no idea how it could be done.

Releasing pheasants is unsuccessful for several reasons. The major one being is they are generally released at the wrong age. Once they acquire their adult plumage they are considered to be too domesticated to survive. If there is an ideal age, it is probably 5 weeks or there abouts, not over six. Four to six weeks is when they’re switching over to a vegetarian diet. The predator problem is mostly due to lack of protective cover. Avian predators are the worst with the Great Horned Owl being the most destructive. Pheasants are somewhat active during the dark hours and without overhead protection they simply don’t survive. Ground based predators can be controlled by shooting and trapping and the same cover that protects birds from avian predators makes good cover for ground based. It must be sparse enough for pheasants to run through but dense enough that fox can’t.

Nesting cover is a whole other ball game. It must be a diverse plant base that produces a diverse bug supply for newly hatched chicks. No bugs, they simply starve to death shortly after hatching. It must be thin enough for them to move through easily in their search for food and yet provide protection from above. Ideally, it’s an alfalfa field that has a lot of volunteer grass and weeds mixed in. You will need to address the skunk population as well to protect nests.

The amount of acreage needed to be successful is huge, probably numbering in the hundreds as a minimum. Attempting to do it with less will probably be futile.

Food plots: This is probably the least of what birds need for survival. Heavy prolonged snow and lack of cover that prevents birds from feeding is rare in Oregon. It’s not like winter losses in the midwest where birds get trapped beneath the snow and sit there till they starve.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 07:43 AM   #5
CKthumper
Sturgeon
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cornelius, OR
Posts: 4,596
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

In the 70's and 80's my dad would get eggs from ODFW, up to fifty or so, and hatch them under Bantam chickens. He also, when destroying a nest with a hay mower, would salvage the eggs and do the same. Chicks were marked by clipping a toe. They were released as family units as soon as they could fly. The birds from DFW stock would wander around the yard like the chickens that raised them while the wild stock would zip into cover at the first sight of danger. By the end of summer they would all have gone missing. Only twice, out of the hundreds raised, did a marked pheasant make a later showing. One was shot during season, and one came back and wandered around the yard the next spring.


On a side note, one afternoon this spring I heard five or six roosters crowing on a neighbor's property, and actually saw one on our farm for the first time in several years.
__________________
It's a great day in the neighborhood
CKthumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 09:25 PM   #6
BrianMaguire
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clackamas County
Posts: 6,211
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

So a little more background, I have been hatching and releasing for 4 years with permits and leg bands. I have also purchased day old chicks. I have a silver Pheasant hen that went broody this year and I put 4 day olds underneath her at night. 3 of them made it and they are as wild as all get out (I also think all 3 are hens !!). I think they may actually make it. I have 15 others from the same group and some of them are so tame they fly up on your hand for food - they are not going to do well. What I would like are wild adults, trapped in the wild, and then released. I have perfect habitat so that won't be an issue. Like I said I can solve the money issue. What would be ideal is someone at ODFW with the authority, to work with the fish and game in some place that can trap them in the wild (Iowa,South Dakota, Nebraska, ....) and get them here and release them so we can once again get a huntable pop in the valley. When I was a kid we could hunt pheasants all over the valley, that is gone. I blame it on possums and feral cats, two non native predators - well they are all gone now so I think it is time to re-kindle valley pheasants.
__________________
"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
BrianMaguire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 06:10 AM   #7
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Brian: The decline of pheasants is more tied to farming than predators. Crops have changed and the correct habitat has disappeared. There is no way reintroducing pheasants will work till the crops that allowed them to prosper are brought back. The grass seed industry was the last nail in the coffin.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 06:39 AM   #8
444Marlin
Tuna!
 
444Marlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,584
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Somewhere in my archives of stuff, I had some literature on raising birds for release. It included 'wild' turkey, pheasant, quail and grouse. I can't find it now, but from what I remember there was some success with wild x domestic pheasant and grouse F1 crosses. There was some concern about diluting their genes similar to what folks worry about with hatchery fish...but I don't know how excited we should get when pheasants and chukars are not native to begin with. The material might have come from Pheasants Forever biologists.

DZ: yes, 'clean farming' has really hurt populations. I also have seen a lot of ditch burning/mowing in areas during early nesting season thinking, "...that can't be good for the birds!"
444Marlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 07:20 AM   #9
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Exactly. What once was, no longer exists. If it did, we wouldn’t need to supplement with plantings that don’t work for the same reasons that created the big decline. Habitat. Pheasants and fish would do it on their own if suitable habitat existed. Misdirected human intervention fixes nothing.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 07:23 AM   #10
StrawberryMTN
Chromer
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 757
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

So...what about nuisance birds like Turkeys? Would ODFW release them on my property? I wouldn't mind!
StrawberryMTN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 07:55 AM   #11
chukardave1
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bend
Posts: 2,838
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

May want to check out the surrogator (outfit out of Kansas I believe). They claim to have really helped them supplement the wild bird pops.
chukardave1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 09:09 AM   #12
ajfishfinder
Sturgeon
 
ajfishfinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Molalla
Posts: 3,923
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Ask ODFW what they do with the funds raised from the years of upland bird stamp sales. When they started this program it was supposed to be a "temporary project" to raise funds solely for raising and planting Szechuan (black) pheasants on the wet side of Oregon. Here we are now 20+ years later and I have never seen one of these pheasants, yet the ODFW continues to charge an extra fee for an upland bird stamp.


Just another ODFW---FAIL, that we continue to pour our dollars into.
__________________
"No really--I swear, it Tastes Just Like Chicken"

Last edited by ajfishfinder; 06-29-2020 at 09:11 AM.
ajfishfinder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 09:26 AM   #13
444Marlin
Tuna!
 
444Marlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,584
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfishfinder View Post
Ask ODFW what they do with the funds raised from the years of upland bird stamp sales. When they started this program it was supposed to be a "temporary project" to raise funds solely for raising and planting Szechuan (black) pheasants on the wet side of Oregon. Here we are now 20+ years later and I have never seen one of these pheasants, yet the ODFW continues to charge an extra fee for an upland bird stamp.


Just another ODFW---FAIL, that we continue to pour our dollars into.
Upland bird stamps were sold 'solely' to raise and plant pheasants in western Oregon?! I doubt your claim.
444Marlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 09:53 AM   #14
garyk
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: On the BIG River, Columbia Co.
Posts: 16,293
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfishfinder View Post
... for raising and planting Szechuan (black) pheasants on the wet side of Oregon. Here we are now 20+ years later and I have never seen one of these pheasants, ...

You've never seen one because the Szechuan's survived no better than other pheasant stocks that have been tried.
__________________
Welcome, to the days you've made.
IFisher 234

"Truth Matters"
garyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 08:32 PM   #15
crawdad
Chromer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 773
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

I agree that predators are a problem. But clean farming and grass seed are the real culprits. There’s just nowhere for them to live, evade predators and the food supply ain’t there year round. There are still surprisingly good pockets of pheasant around on private ground that’s managed just right. But they are little islands scattered in a dessert of grass seed fields. We could import half the birds in North Dakota and they’re be gone in a few years. On the other hand we got cacklers...
crawdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 08:37 PM   #16
crawdad
Chromer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 773
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Follow up. I’ve got no idea if this works on valley quail, but with bobwhites on small/medium acreage in the south they have good luck using call back boxes. Do a google search for “Johnny box” or “call back box.”

In conjunction with feed, habitat, predator control they really do work.
crawdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2020, 08:13 PM   #17
Nq015a
Coho
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 54
Default

I have also seen those wild bobwhite quail on bachelor island while volunteering at the refuge.
Nq015a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 08:33 AM   #18
Jaydub
Chromer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 683
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

My mother was a 1st grade teacher and every year she would hatch out eggs an incubator in the classroom. Usually it was chickens, sometimes ducks, but one year it was pheasants. At the time the state would give you eggs if you promised to release the birds. She brought them home to raise. When they were ready we boxed them up, took them to a likely looking spot about 1/4 mile away and turned them loose. They almost beat us back to the house.
Jaydub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 08:43 PM   #19
ajfishfinder
Sturgeon
 
ajfishfinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Molalla
Posts: 3,923
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 444Marlin View Post
Upland bird stamps were sold 'solely' to raise and plant pheasants in western Oregon?! I doubt your claim.

What am I missing??? I said the bird stamp program was started to raise and release Szechuan pheasants, yet I have never seen one. The upland stamp program continues today years later yet where are all these pheasants they raise and release. If they are wasting the money on anything but raising and releasing pheasants, that would be fraud. Somehow I have a sneaking suspicion that this money just ends up in the general fund, which in turn ends up going to cover PERS.


ODFW---Pay more for less.


Look what I dug up for your reading pleasure. Seems we already went over this a few years back.



https://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=392933
__________________
"No really--I swear, it Tastes Just Like Chicken"

Last edited by ajfishfinder; 07-05-2020 at 08:54 PM.
ajfishfinder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2020, 11:42 AM   #20
Don Fischer
King Salmon
 
Don Fischer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Antelope, Ore
Posts: 6,752
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfishfinder View Post
What am I missing??? I said the bird stamp program was started to raise and release Szechuan pheasants, yet I have never seen one. The upland stamp program continues today years later yet where are all these pheasants they raise and release. If they are wasting the money on anything but raising and releasing pheasants, that would be fraud. Somehow I have a sneaking suspicion that this money just ends up in the general fund, which in turn ends up going to cover PERS.


ODFW---Pay more for less.


Look what I dug up for your reading pleasure. Seems we already went over this a few years back.



https://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=392933
That sounds pretty normal to me. Impose a fee for our betterment and it never goes away!
__________________
I feel sorry for the guy that has never been loved by a dog!

There's a reason I like dogs better than people!
Don Fischer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2020, 11:22 PM   #21
BrianMaguire
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clackamas County
Posts: 6,211
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Fischer View Post
That sounds pretty normal to me. Impose a fee for our betterment and it never goes away!
Just like a tax - Seems like if we had a Gov. or a commission that was accountable we may get what we paid for - nah just a lark.
__________________
"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
BrianMaguire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 08:24 PM   #22
JerryM
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,073
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

I’ve put pheasant eggs under a Silkie hen and she had a 100% hatch rate. Those little buggers went wild in just a few days. Once they had adult feathers, there was only one that was remotely domestic and she turned in a couple months. We let them free range though. They were very afraid of people.
__________________
18' Hewes Sportsman "MaryNater"
24' Hewes OP "MaryNater II"
Working to regain traditional free forest access for all.
JerryM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 08:48 PM   #23
444Marlin
Tuna!
 
444Marlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,584
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajfishfinder View Post
What am I missing??? I said the bird stamp program was started to raise and release Szechuan pheasants, yet I have never seen one.

https://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=392933
I doubt your claim that the sale of stamps was solely for Szechuan pheasants.

Here's from the ODFW website on Upland Bird Stamps that includes a broad range of management activities and objectives:

The sale of upland game bird validations (stamps) generate much of the revenue for the upland game bird management activities conducted by ODFW. Upland game bird stamp dollars are used for a wide array of activities such as: conducting harvest surveys, promoting hunter access, gathering population information through field surveys, and supporting basic research to learn more about the distribution and life-history requirements of individual species. These dollars also promote upland bird habitat enhancement and restoration which provide benefits for many other species of fish and wildlife.

The Oregon Legislature during the 1989 session created the upland game bird “stamp” which is required of all hunters pursuing pheasants, quail, grouse, or partridge. The money generated from the sale of stamps and associated artwork are deposited in separate account that can only be used for the promoting and conservation of “...upland birds and the acquisition, development, management, enhancement, sale or exchange of upland bird habitat...”.
444Marlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 09:02 PM   #24
444Marlin
Tuna!
 
444Marlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,584
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

BTW: I never looked at the upland stamps before, and the past few years are really nice. I really like the 2019 stamp with the ruffed grouse.
I think I'm going to order a few of the sage grouse stamps.
444Marlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 10:32 PM   #25
Ol' KL
Tuna!
 
Ol' KL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,473
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

If it makes you feel any better I saw a Sichuan this spring (Douglas County).
__________________
"...you ride into the grip that you got" -Guy Martin
"Everyone does their own stunts"
Ol' KL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 11:59 PM   #26
danielboone
Chromer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 503
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMaguire View Post
So a little more background, I have been hatching and releasing for 4 years with permits and leg bands. I have also purchased day old chicks. I have a silver Pheasant hen that went broody this year and I put 4 day olds underneath her at night. 3 of them made it and they are as wild as all get out (I also think all 3 are hens !!). I think they may actually make it. I have 15 others from the same group and some of them are so tame they fly up on your hand for food - they are not going to do well. What I would like are wild adults, trapped in the wild, and then released. I have perfect habitat so that won't be an issue. Like I said I can solve the money issue. What would be ideal is someone at ODFW with the authority, to work with the fish and game in some place that can trap them in the wild (Iowa,South Dakota, Nebraska, ....) and get them here and release them so we can once again get a huntable pop in the valley. When I was a kid we could hunt pheasants all over the valley, that is gone. I blame it on possums and feral cats, two non native predators - well they are all gone now so I think it is time to re-kindle valley pheasants.
When we started planting hazelnuts I had to start extensively trapping coons, squirrels and other vermin to prevent damage to trees and crop loss. Over the last 6 year's and hundreds of critters caught, our quail population has been exploding. We haven't created more brush rows or patches, but squirrels, chipmunks, and coons will all eat quail eggs. There isn't a lack of predatory birds around the orchards, a few cats, but the biggest change is three critters I mentioned. I would recommend you start a trap line to cut down the numbers of other critters, and you'll have much more success with bird survival.
danielboone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 05:14 AM   #27
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

D. Boone:


Reminds me of a friend in Laurel, Montana. He has a small place just outside town where he raises Alfalfa and some other stuff including some really good Griffons. He thought he'd trap skunks to see if he could get more pheasants. In a month and a half he got 72 so he gave up. Figured he wasn't making the slightest dent in the population. Two or three years ago, ODFW started encouraging folks to eliminate as many Ravens as they could because of how destructive they are to Chukars, Huns, quail and various other things. Dunno if it has made a difference. Quite a few years ago there was this farmer in Richland who started his own reward program for eliminating Magpies. He would pay a bounty on whatever the local school kids would bring him that was proof of a kill. ODFW has also encouraged the removal of Russian Olive which is where Magpies nest and quail hang out a lot.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 05:24 AM   #28
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 23,579
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Raven and Magpie are protected birds. Show us where in statute it legal to kill them.
__________________
I have been wrong once before. Just once mind you. It was for several years, Ok A decade or more. But just the once.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 05:42 AM   #29
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Baltz... Yea, that's true. The farmer took things into his own hands, was well aware of the legality and just didn't give a damn. We need more people like him. Got the Raven info from more than one source, dunno whatever happened with that. Probably got pulled off the table because the folks in charge didn't have the same spine the farmer had. We need fewer people like them, especially the ones running things.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 06:15 AM   #30
Umpquanuts
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: outside of Roseburg
Posts: 1,112
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Apparently the ground squirrel will rob nests and on my place the poor quail nesting success would seem doomed to the prolific numbers I have on my place. Other nest robbers are probably taking a toll too. I have not seen any young quail on my place yet this year, just pairs of adults. The spring rains extending through nesting season may have played a role too. All the various squirrel predators need to do a better job of balancing things out. Maybe I need more gopher snakes....I try to avoid running over any of them on our farm roads. God I would need to raise a lot of snakes eh? The neighbor released some pheasants I few years ago and I would see the hawks pick then off once in a while even though I have sufficient "nice" stands of black berries, poison oak and so on for cover.
Changing land management practices, human population dynamics and introduction of stuff that should not be here....difficult to return to what use to be I suppose. Guess we all have to eat and have some fiber from the lands.
Umpquanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 11:48 AM   #31
danielboone
Chromer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 503
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umpquanuts View Post
Apparently the ground squirrel will rob nests and on my place the poor quail nesting success would seem doomed to the prolific numbers I have on my place. Other nest robbers are probably taking a toll too. I have not seen any young quail on my place yet this year, just pairs of adults. The spring rains extending through nesting season may have played a role too. All the various squirrel predators need to do a better job of balancing things out. Maybe I need more gopher snakes....I try to avoid running over any of them on our farm roads. God I would need to raise a lot of snakes eh? The neighbor released some pheasants I few years ago and I would see the hawks pick then off once in a while even though I have sufficient "nice" stands of black berries, poison oak and so on for cover.
Changing land management practices, human population dynamics and introduction of stuff that should not be here....difficult to return to what use to be I suppose. Guess we all have to eat and have some fiber from the lands.
A shocker to me was we have flying squirrels in western Oregon, have pics on my tc, and read they prey on bird nests and steal the chicks.
danielboone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 11:50 AM   #32
danielboone
Chromer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 503
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
D. Boone:


Reminds me of a friend in Laurel, Montana. He has a small place just outside town where he raises Alfalfa and some other stuff including some really good Griffons. He thought he'd trap skunks to see if he could get more pheasants. In a month and a half he got 72 so he gave up. Figured he wasn't making the slightest dent in the population. Two or three years ago, ODFW started encouraging folks to eliminate as many Ravens as they could because of how destructive they are to Chukars, Huns, quail and various other things. Dunno if it has made a difference. Quite a few years ago there was this farmer in Richland who started his own reward program for eliminating Magpies. He would pay a bounty on whatever the local school kids would bring him that was proof of a kill. ODFW has also encouraged the removal of Russian Olive which is where Magpies nest and quail hang out a lot.
I've noticed a lot more raven here in the valley the last few years, hopefully we don't get too many, it's nice seeing the quail population rebound.
danielboone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 01:44 PM   #33
chukardave1
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bend
Posts: 2,838
Default Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Shoot all ravens. #1 threat for sage grouse behind mother nature


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last edited by chukardave1; 07-08-2020 at 01:48 PM.
chukardave1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 02:37 PM   #34
big foot
Chromer
 
big foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: medford or
Posts: 675
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Back in 1955 Elmer Balsiger who owned the Ford dealership in Klamath Falls was a member of the Oregon State game co . He would pay us young lads $.25 cents out of his own pocket for every Magpie head brought to him to help with the nesting birds like quail and pheasants . Seems like that is not the same thought today ??
big foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 06:34 PM   #35
BrianMaguire
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clackamas County
Posts: 6,211
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
Baltz... Yea, that's true. The farmer took things into his own hands, was well aware of the legality and just didn't give a damn. We need more people like him. Got the Raven info from more than one source, dunno whatever happened with that. Probably got pulled off the table because the folks in charge didn't have the same spine the farmer had. We need fewer people like them, especially the ones running things.
interesting you say this, Sage grouse's #1 predator is the Raven. So here we are on the edge of an ESL for sage grouse, and raven's are protected yet you can hunt sage grouse.
__________________
"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
BrianMaguire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 06:20 AM   #36
James in Idaho
Sturgeon
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 4,655
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMaguire View Post
interesting you say this, Sage grouse's #1 predator is the Raven. So here we are on the edge of an ESL for sage grouse, and raven's are protected yet you can hunt sage grouse.

We've created a smorgasbord for ravens, and watched sage grouse habitat disappear. We've created a smorgasbord for sea lions, but we still fish for salmon...really no difference. Simple man made imbalance, but predator control is really not well received by the public or by wildlife agencies.
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 06:47 AM   #37
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Wildlife agencies are run by non-sportsman public opinion which eliminates any form of common sense. Need something done, do it yourself. No public opinion involved.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 07:10 AM   #38
CKthumper
Sturgeon
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cornelius, OR
Posts: 4,596
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

My cousin, retired after 35 yrs with ODFW, called it management by postage stamp. The agency could spend years researching an issue, develop a plan, and for the price of a stamp an opposing organization could file a challenge and stop the procedure.
__________________
It's a great day in the neighborhood
CKthumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 07:29 AM   #39
Bonecrusher 0.338
Ifish Nate
 
Bonecrusher 0.338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Troutdale
Posts: 2,488
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

MY TURN, Speaking of Pheasant populations, when ODFW started the upland bird stamp they advertised they would enhance habitat and do bird releases statewide to improve populations and hunting opportunity. (Not talking about canned hunts on management areas) It never happened. Kind of like the Columbia river endorsement and the SI parking permit they give to everybody and they don't even put gravel in the parking lots. The money is wasted. As far as bird survival, with the massive amount of people and pet cats, loss of habitat, and cattle everywhere, over East that used to be prime habitat, the future for Pheasant looks dim. Lot's of things wrong that weren't 30 years ago.
__________________
Forget the past the past is gone forever, right now is where it's happening..
Bonecrusher 0.338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 07:58 AM   #40
joe_camo
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,159
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
Baltz... Yea, that's true. The farmer took things into his own hands, was well aware of the legality and just didn't give a damn. We need more people like him. Got the Raven info from more than one source, dunno whatever happened with that. Probably got pulled off the table because the folks in charge didn't have the same spine the farmer had. We need fewer people like them, especially the ones running things.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wild...ing-2-of-them/

you may or may not be able to get preference points when you do the right thing and turn in this rancher for shooting a species that is protected by both State and Federal laws in Oregon.

It will be interesting to compare this case (once prosecuted) to the one in Fairbanks.
__________________

"You're a winner as long as you squeeze every drop out of the opportunity"
joe_camo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 08:49 AM   #41
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Why would I want preference points for something I don't hunt in Oregon?


Why would I turn in anyone for doing the right thing?
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 11:34 AM   #42
joe_camo
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,159
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Making a deliberate choice of cherry picking what is a valid wildlife crime and what can be overlooked (or in this case supported) is not the way of a responsible citizen or sportsperson. It displays the truth of ones charterer.

Some think that filling anothers tag, shooting from the road or spotlighting is the "right thing" to do but all are illegal and show the proof of ones charterer. In truth these are all illegal show just like shooting ravens - no difference. Poachers will poach and those who support their illegal activity will be enabling the poaching.
__________________

"You're a winner as long as you squeeze every drop out of the opportunity"
joe_camo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 12:01 PM   #43
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

JC.... Your responses are so predictable. Some illegal activities benefit huntable/fishable wildlife, some don't. Can't lump everything together.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 12:14 PM   #44
StrawberryMTN
Chromer
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 757
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

What the heck is a "Charterer" anyway?
StrawberryMTN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 12:17 PM   #45
StrawberryMTN
Chromer
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 757
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

No limit on crow 10/1/2020-1/31/2021

I know quite a few ranchers that shoot black birds...
StrawberryMTN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 12:26 PM   #46
H_histrionicus
Chromer
 
H_histrionicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Molalla
Posts: 794
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_camo View Post
Making a deliberate choice of cherry picking what is a valid wildlife crime and what can be overlooked (or in this case supported) is not the way of a responsible citizen or sportsperson. It displays the truth of ones charterer.
There was this guy last duck season who admitted on here to not immediately retrieving a bird that he knew was down and continued hunting. Called it a judgement call, I believe.
I offered to report him so that I could get the points since the infraction already occurred and someone should.
He said he was going to self report. Wonder what ever came of that....
__________________
.
H_histrionicus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 01:12 PM   #47
James in Idaho
Sturgeon
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 4,655
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Here's a link to a recent study (since I know some members have to have peer reviewed material) concerning the links between ravens, cattle and sage grouse depredation:


https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wi...1002/ecs2.1203


If you do a goo foo search for "sage grouse and ravens", there's lots of information pointing to how hard on nesting success ravens are on sage hens, I would assume that they have an impact on any ground nesting birds like pheasants and quail. What I did not know is that the raven population TRIPLED between 1980 and 2010. We (humans) have set the raven up for success but at a significant cost to other wildlife.
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 06:43 PM   #48
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Dunno if I could bring myself to shoot a Raven. One of the coolest birds there ever was if a person can ignore some of the damage they do. Like a lot of stuff....
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 07:06 PM   #49
chukardave1
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bend
Posts: 2,838
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James in Idaho View Post
Here's a link to a recent study (since I know some members have to have peer reviewed material) concerning the links between ravens, cattle and sage grouse depredation:


https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wi...1002/ecs2.1203


If you do a goo foo search for "sage grouse and ravens", there's lots of information pointing to how hard on nesting success ravens are on sage hens, I would assume that they have an impact on any ground nesting birds like pheasants and quail. What I did not know is that the raven population TRIPLED between 1980 and 2010. We (humans) have set the raven up for success but at a significant cost to other wildlife.

Exactly. Created a buffet for them. Sage grouse habitat hasn't changed much in the areas I hunt. Yes some fires throughout the years but no development to speak of. But ravens are everywhere. They will follow a sage hen back to their nest then go and raid the nest the next time the hen leaves. And I can't believe everyone hasn't blocked one particular JA on this board. It makes the threads a bit more palatable.
chukardave1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 07:38 AM   #50
motoxaaron03
Tuna!
 
motoxaaron03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Springfield
Posts: 1,504
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
JC.... Your responses are so predictable. Some illegal activities benefit huntable/fishable wildlife, some don't. Can't lump everything together.

__________________
"Life's a garden. Dig it." "You gotta keep on Keepin' on."
motoxaaron03 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 07:51 AM   #51
duke1122
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,181
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_camo View Post
Making a deliberate choice of cherry picking what is a valid wildlife crime and what can be overlooked (or in this case supported) is not the way of a responsible citizen or sportsperson. It displays the truth of ones charterer.

Some think that filling anothers tag, shooting from the road or spotlighting is the "right thing" to do but all are illegal and show the proof of ones charterer. In truth these are all illegal show just like shooting ravens - no difference. Poachers will poach and those who support their illegal activity will be enabling the poaching.
If there isn't a difference between spotlighting deer and elk and shooting a raven, then there isn't a difference between slapping a unknown woman on the rear and ****** her, right?
duke1122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 12:50 PM   #52
BrianMaguire
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clackamas County
Posts: 6,211
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chukardave1 View Post
Exactly. Created a buffet for them. Sage grouse habitat hasn't changed much in the areas I hunt. .
Juniper encroachment is a big factor in the Raven's success in picking off Sage grouse nests. The other big thing is fence strikes near Leks. Wyoming has done a great job in mitigating fence strikes with simple plastic flags, which they are doing around this state as well. I have personally helped put them up on Hart and I saw them on fences near Fort Rock. Besides the illegality of whacking a raven, I could not do it, way too cool a bird for me but they are thriving. I saw my first 3 ravens on Pete's Mtn in West Linn last week. I grew up here and I have never seen one before. I heard them before I saw them.
__________________
"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
BrianMaguire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 01:11 PM   #53
joe_camo
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,159
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
JC.... Your responses are so predictable. Some illegal activities benefit huntable/fishable wildlife, some don't. Can't lump everything together.
My responses are predictable because they are based in reality and backed by science.

Habitat is the key for all species to thrive. With proper habitat game birds such as pheasants will thrive.

Please take the time to read what pheasants forever has to say on the issue:

https://www.pheasantsforever.org/Hab...Predators.aspx

Now would you please provide the data that supports your claim that some illegal activities benefit huntable/fishable numbers of wildlife?
__________________

"You're a winner as long as you squeeze every drop out of the opportunity"
joe_camo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 01:24 PM   #54
joe_camo
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,159
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Also, here is what ducks unlimited has to say on the issue of predator control.

https://www.ducks.org/conservation/w...onservationfaq

But, I'm trying and trying to find study that says focused illegal activity can boost wildlife populations - can someone please provide a link?
__________________

"You're a winner as long as you squeeze every drop out of the opportunity"
joe_camo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 01:50 PM   #55
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

The fact such activities are illegal is the reason they can't be implemented and measure actual results. Until then, we'll need to rely on anecdotal evidence. Also, if it weren't true, ODFW probably wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. They are paid to know this stuff.... or are they?
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 02:06 PM   #56
joe_camo
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,159
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
The fact such activities are illegal is the reason they can't be implemented and measure actual results. Until then, we'll need to rely on anecdotal evidence. Also, if it weren't true, ODFW probably wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. They are paid to know this stuff.... or are they?
So you read the links showing that predator control does nothing to boost pheasant and duck numbers?

If focused legal attempts to control predators do not increase huntable/fihable populations of wildlife than how could illegal predator control boost game numbers?

Me I'm going to stick with facts and science and not draw any conclusions from anecdotal evidence or speculation.
__________________

"You're a winner as long as you squeeze every drop out of the opportunity"

Last edited by joe_camo; 07-10-2020 at 02:20 PM.
joe_camo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 08:27 PM   #57
James in Idaho
Sturgeon
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 4,655
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_camo View Post
Me I'm going to stick with facts and science and not draw any conclusions from anecdotal evidence or speculation.
Here's a little science for you:


https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9mm5x4c3


Again, finding peer reviewed studies linking sage grouse nesting success is directly tied to predation by ravens is NOT very hard to find. I'm not advocating the illegal killing of anything, but I strongly feel that ravens, crows and magpies should not be protected species. Sage grouse have been decimated by loss of habitat due to wildfire, West Nile and excessive prediton from by mostly ravens. They are on the brink of being listed as an ESA species, and the raven population has exploded in the last 40 years due to what we have built for them. They do not need any protection. We not talking about ducks, very few are pushing listing on the ESA. I'm biased, I think sage hens are a very cool bird, and yes, I've hunted them for the last 25 or more years. Where I hunt, I've seen the limit go from 4 a day to 1 per day. This is in excellent habitat, but there are plenty of ravens. With the late spring snowstorms this year, we'll be lucky to have a season on my side of the state. Most of the sage grouse recovery plans purposely avoid predator control, it just too much of a political hot potato. So "science" isn't the driving factor in sage grouse recovery...if you think it is you are sadly mistaken.
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 09:51 PM   #58
joe_camo
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,159
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

There is also no shortage of peer reviewed studies proving predator control programs do not work.

No matter the predator prey relationship habitat is always the key. Without proper habitat prey species will not thrive.

Better habitat = more prey. If the habitat in the Willamette valley was suitable for quail and pheasants then there would be lots of quail and pheasant.

Changes in sage grouse habitat is the driver for lower abundance.

Once good habitat is in place environmental factors are the driver of abundance - not predation. Every successful conservation group has learned this reality focuses on habitat. There have been record fall flights of ducks and geese with no predator control.

Habitat is the key
__________________

"You're a winner as long as you squeeze every drop out of the opportunity"

Last edited by joe_camo; 07-10-2020 at 09:54 PM.
joe_camo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 10:05 PM   #59
BrianMaguire
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clackamas County
Posts: 6,211
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_camo View Post
So you read the links showing that predator control does nothing to boost pheasant and duck numbers?
\\

That is utter nonsense, predator control is the *exact* reason why mule deer did so well in the 70's and 80's. It is a proven positive on populations.
__________________
"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
BrianMaguire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2020, 05:12 AM   #60
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
DogZilla15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 35,087
Default Re: Quail and Pheasant transplants- I would like them and pay for them.

Ravens kill cattle as well, or so I've been told by those who should know. Newborn/young calves are the preferred prey.



I used to shoot Crows when I was young (just for "sport") but wouldn't think of it now. I feed them every morning in my driveway. Right now they're picking up chicken scraps from yesterday's BBQ. We used to have a few Band Tail Pigeons in the neighborhood but not any more. They would attempt nesting in the tree outside my window but were never successful. I'm pretty sure the Crows/bluejays are a factor.



We all know what a failure the Marine Mammal Protection Act was/is.


We can't say predators don't have an effect on wildlife populations across the board when in some instances they do. Can't lump everything together. It's easy to say they don't affect pheasant populations when it's obvious it's more of a habitat problem but that doesn't mean another species in another location isn't in trouble due to predation.
DogZilla15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Cast to



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:59 AM.

Terms of Service
 
Page generated in 1.07731 seconds with 74 queries