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Old 05-20-2020, 01:38 PM   #1
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Default Anglers and netters agreed

It was reassuring to hear virtually everyone on a three-hour phone meeting agree they didn't want to fish at the expense of the resource.
The testimony overwhelmingly supported conservation.
Yes, there were a few anglers angry about the proposed net season, but the netters themselves didn't want to fish when the run was so low...and yes, some because too many shad would also hurt their chances to turn wild fish loose.
But both sides put the fish first.

https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/20...r-fishing.html

Faced with a downgraded Columbia spring chinook salmon run, poor recent catches and predicted shortages of fish at several upriver hatcheries, Oregon and Washington on Wednesday decided against proposed sport and commercial fishing seasons in the next week.

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Old 05-20-2020, 02:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

When will the Charters start crying for a Sturgeon season?
Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

Just had to drag the “kill them all” managers to that decision

Ask yourself why this was even proposed.

And don’t fool yourself. The staff recommendation for both seasons was supported by staff. Until someone’s mind got changed for them.

All this dust up to benefit 25 Gillnetters and anger 500,000 salmon tag buyers.

Why? Hmmm
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Originally Posted by Gun Rod Bow View Post
Just had to drag the “kill them all” managers to that decision

Ask yourself why this was even proposed.

And don’t fool yourself. The staff recommendation for both seasons was supported by staff. Until someone’s mind got changed for them.
Makes you wonder what is going thru the minds of these ODFW and WDFW "staff". Makes you wonder why they are even allowed to make decisions what alterior motives are there. They are both a complete failure to the fishermen of WA and OR.
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

Seems like a better opportunity to celebrate the ability of participants to change the course rather than continue the angst...More productive anyway...
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Monroe View Post
It was reassuring to hear virtually everyone on a three-hour phone meeting agree they didn't want to fish at the expense of the resource.
The testimony overwhelmingly supported conservation.
Yes, there were a few anglers angry about the proposed net season, but the netters themselves didn't want to fish when the run was so low...and yes, some because too many shad would also hurt their chances to turn wild fish loose.
But both sides put the fish first.
Lets talk and expose the 3rd side of the equation. The DFW from both states brought this possible commercial opener to the table. To who's benefit was this done? It wasn't for the fish.

We need to leverage and demand changes.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Originally Posted by pearl View Post
To who's benefit was this done?
According to odfw staff, 25 Gillnetters.

Asking deeper questions is a healthy activity. At least I’ve heard journalists say that.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Lets talk and expose the 3rd side of the equation. The DFW from both states brought this possible commercial opener to the table. To who's benefit was this done? It wasn't for the fish.

We need to leverage and demand changes.
Agree, that is the true question..
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:59 PM   #9
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The audacity and brazen actions of ODFW and WDFW is shocking. They almost seem like they are immune from any consequences for their idiotic actions. Almost seems like they feel like they can do whatever they want to us sportsmen. They duped us into dropping the ballot measure and then slowly but surely bring the gillnets back to the mainstem Columbia River, and to top it all off we are still fishing barbless! Talk about putting the screws to someone. Fire them all and clean house and start over with all new leadership and even fish hatchery workers who have failed in raising more fish!! Hire the tribes to do it.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

Interesting public testimony..... I didn't know that natives didn't like to have sex with hatchery fish because of their color, spots and fins!
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Seems like a better opportunity to celebrate the ability of participants to change the course rather than continue the angst...More productive anyway...
Please explain exactly what you think that'll produce.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

I still don't a license in 2020.

Might go the rest of the year without fishing. Stuff like this makes me think other hobbies are a better idea.

Tired of being the financial golden goose, but getting treated like rented mule.

Salmon for all can fund em.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:41 PM   #13
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Interesting public testimony..... I didn't know that natives didn't like to have sex with hatchery fish because of their color, spots and fins!
That was so weird. I wasn't sure if that guy was for real or what.

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Old 05-20-2020, 10:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Originally Posted by apelily View Post
Makes you wonder what is going thru the minds of these ODFW and WDFW "staff". Makes you wonder why they are even allowed to make decisions what alterior motives are there. They are both a complete failure to the fishermen of WA and OR.
North of the river the question is where is the Commission and how can they degrade their conservation oriented CR policy to this point without shame?
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:46 AM   #16
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Originally Posted by Bill Monroe View Post
Seems like a better opportunity to celebrate the ability of participants to change the course rather than continue the angst...More productive anyway...
Certainly a time to celebrate

Considering the angst is coupled with smaller runs and opportunity one would hope that those who make the choice to follow the way of angst will see the error of their ways before it is too late for the fish.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:14 AM   #17
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There shouldn’t be any “netters” in the first place.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Originally Posted by AnnaDraMoss View Post
When will the Charters start crying for a Sturgeon season?
Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.



I do not agree that sturgeon are anywhere close to what salmon degradation is. Please don't put all endangered fish in the same pond in respect to what is seriously in danger and which fish are not. Talk to guides, fishermen, anyone who has fished the river for sturgeon. They are plentiful.

Charters are no different than any other businesses that want to make a few bucks to stay afloat in this economic debacle.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:58 AM   #19
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I do not agree that sturgeon are anywhere close to what salmon degradation is. Please don't put all endangered fish in the same pond in respect to what is seriously in danger and which fish are not. Talk to guides, fishermen, anyone who has fished the river for sturgeon. They are plentiful.

Charters are no different than any other businesses that want to make a few bucks to stay afloat in this economic debacle.
Locally abundant does not always translate to an abundant overall population.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:59 AM   #20
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I do not agree that sturgeon are anywhere close to what salmon degradation is. Please don't put all endangered fish in the same pond in respect to what is seriously in danger and which fish are not. Talk to guides, fishermen, anyone who has fished the river for sturgeon. They are plentiful.

Charters are no different than any other businesses that want to make a few bucks to stay afloat in this economic debacle.
There’s lots of them for sure.
Now if you could catch one that’s within the ridiculous slot limit.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by apelily View Post
Makes you wonder what is going thru the minds of these ODFW and WDFW "staff". Makes you wonder why they are even allowed to make decisions what alterior motives are there. They are both a complete failure to the fishermen of WA and OR.
No worries , they still get paid no matter what .
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:44 AM   #22
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When it comes to speaking for our fisheries resources I lump the guides, charters, tackle companies, processors and gillnetters all into the same bucket.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:48 AM   #23
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Doormats comes to mind.

Sad

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Old 05-21-2020, 04:35 PM   #24
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Locally abundant does not always translate to an abundant overall population.

There’s lots of them for sure.
Now if you could catch one that’s within the ridiculous slot limit.



Gentlemen, what I am saying is it is unfair to bundle salmon with sturgeon. There are many similarities in the endangerment and specificity of the two species however they are not even in the same "fruit bowl" when it comes to population and propagation.



As to "locally abundant" I would concur abundance is territorial because of their relationship with transient v. resident fish. Spawn is not detrimental to life as is salmonoids however sturgeon and salmon smolts are similarly plagued with habitat and predation issues. I bet you know where to find resident fish as you do transient. Resident fish are very much the larger however, there are some smaller ones simply because their spawn base is growing.



As to finding "the right size" to keep I would suggest timing as to "allowed dates to retain" have a lot to do with success. Sturgeon come into the river when the forage is there thus... the size of transient fish v resident will indeed be the challenge.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:39 PM   #25
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Certainly a time to celebrate
Celebrate? Serious ?
I still cant get over the fact and absurdity that fisheries "managers"(sic) from DFW brought this to the table based on low returns and hatchery's that might not realize annual egg take this year with in the Columbia basin.
The departments recommendation per fact sheet ( made public an hour before the call) was to allow commercial net fishing beginning today for 11 hours in zones 4 & 5. How can they come to the table with that kind of crap? Had we not been in the middle of the shad run this commercial opener would have moved forward at the desire of DFW's. Consideration for the health of the fishery was a second thought. Your probably asking shad? The commercial fleet could not fish tangle/gill nets due to the abundance of shad in the river and meet soak times restrictions and fouled nets. There was also some commercial theater by the commercial interests that were on the call that they didn't want to fish because of low returns to date. I say bunk. Had the shad not been in the river and they could have effectively harvested they would have fought tooth and nail to take the tarps off the spools. Past history tells me that.

Opposed to the insulting suggestion of celebration I think this brings additional exposure as to how bad our fish are being managed and elevates the need for departmental change moving forward. Throw the commissions in here as well as needed.

Im also convinced that Curt Melcher ( he is the Dept Director and is like the CEO so its his head first )will always give the jump balls to the commercial fleet based on the fact he was a gill net participant up north in his early years. A zebra cant change its stripes.

At the end of the day the fish dodged a bullet this time but there are many more bullets in the clip. Stay diligent.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:11 PM   #26
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"...Im also convinced that Curt Melcher ( he is the Dept Director and is like the CEO so its his head first )will always give the jump balls to the commercial fleet based on the fact he was a gill net participant up north in his early years. A zebra cant change its stripes."

We like to be factual on Ifish. What is your source for "gill net participant up north in his early years"? Do you mean he was a commercial gill netter in his early years? He has been with ODFW at least 28 years.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:50 AM   #27
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Celebrate? Serious ?
I still cant get over the fact and absurdity that fisheries "managers"(sic) from DFW brought this to the table based on low returns and hatchery's that might not realize annual egg take this year with in the Columbia basin.
The departments recommendation per fact sheet ( made public an hour before the call) was to allow commercial net fishing beginning today for 11 hours in zones 4 & 5. How can they come to the table with that kind of crap? Had we not been in the middle of the shad run this commercial opener would have moved forward at the desire of DFW's. Consideration for the health of the fishery was a second thought. Your probably asking shad? The commercial fleet could not fish tangle/gill nets due to the abundance of shad in the river and meet soak times restrictions and fouled nets. There was also some commercial theater by the commercial interests that were on the call that they didn't want to fish because of low returns to date. I say bunk. Had the shad not been in the river and they could have effectively harvested they would have fought tooth and nail to take the tarps off the spools. Past history tells me that.

Opposed to the insulting suggestion of celebration I think this brings additional exposure as to how bad our fish are being managed and elevates the need for departmental change moving forward. Throw the commissions in here as well as needed.

Im also convinced that Curt Melcher ( he is the Dept Director and is like the CEO so its his head first )will always give the jump balls to the commercial fleet based on the fact he was a gill net participant up north in his early years. A zebra cant change its stripes.

At the end of the day the fish dodged a bullet this time but there are many more bullets in the clip. Stay diligent.
Yes celebrate!

Given suitable run size predictions and available impacts fisheries managers are mandated to propose seasons - they have no choice.

Fortunately harvesters have a choice to speak up for the resource and "let them swim".

Too bad for all those fish who so desperately needed help did not "dodge the bullets" from the earlier Columbia Mainstem openers. We anglers were not using the mantra of "let them swim" back then.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:54 PM   #28
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

That’s a ridiculous statement.

There’s a 30% conservation buffer in place to prevent over harvest.

Sports had been shut out of fishing the Columbia at all for 6 Weeks. Not even a scratch into the buffered allocation.

So we fished after the peak of the run and fishing was very very slow.

Meanwhile commercial fishers never missed a day of fishing the terminal fisheries for Spring Chinook paid for by others

After the run was updated. And downgraded. Sport fishers said let them swim.

Why should sport fishers say no to any harvest on the hatchery run on the mainstem when they hadn’t scratched the allocation.

Especially when the mainstem is supposed to be prioritized for selective recreational angling?
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Old 05-23-2020, 08:03 AM   #29
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Why?

Conservation.

Scratching allocation means killing wild threatened and endangered salmon - buffered or not.

We knew it was going to be a low run and should have waited for the run update (which was downgraded) to say yes or no to a mainstem fishery.

We anglers had greater opportunity to fish the terminal areas (that BPA paid for) than the commercials did. But we collectively as anglers did not bother to wet a line in that fishery that would have continued to not put a scratch in allocation.

We had all of the Willamette to fish, the terminal areas to fish, drano, the wind without putting a scratch on the allocation (which equals dead ESA listed salmon). Conservation would have said error on the side of caution - not fish on the peak of the lowest run of the millennium .
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Old 05-23-2020, 03:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Anglers and netters agreed

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Why?

Conservation.

Scratching allocation means killing wild threatened and endangered salmon - buffered or not.

We knew it was going to be a low run and should have waited for the run update (which was downgraded) to say yes or no to a mainstem fishery.

We anglers had greater opportunity to fish the terminal areas (that BPA paid for) than the commercials did. But we collectively as anglers did not bother to wet a line in that fishery that would have continued to not put a scratch in allocation.

We had all of the Willamette to fish, the terminal areas to fish, drano, the wind without putting a scratch on the allocation (which equals dead ESA listed salmon). Conservation would have said error on the side of caution - not fish on the peak of the lowest run of the millennium .
Terminal areas have mainstem impacts too Joe. That's why the netters threw a fit when they saw me fishing in there.

Even the locals rarely sport fish the terminal areas from boats. There's some bank fishing, but that would get real entertaining if crowds showed up I think.

1422 fish caught over 5 months of netting in all the SAFE areas.

Empty opportunity.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:14 AM   #31
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Conservation and nets are at the opposite end of the fishing universe.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:49 AM   #32
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As for conservation, dead fish are dead fish, and it matters not to that dead fish how it died. Biologists did what they are paid to do: Look at the numbers and decide whether those numbers support some further level of harvest. The compact did what they are supposed to do: Consider the options and weigh opinions then make a decision. They did their jobs, and it looks like most agree with the decision. Why are people so upset?
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:49 AM   #33
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And the plan is working perfectly, 50% of the historic spawning habitat blocked by dams with no fish passage, four lower Snake River dams choking wild fish recovery, summer water temps in the lethal range.
Yet here we see user groups blaming each other, predators, Native Americans, Northern commercials, everything under the sun except the real problems.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:34 AM   #34
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And the plan is working perfectly, 50% of the historic spawning habitat blocked by dams with no fish passage, four lower Snake River dams choking wild fish recovery, summer water temps in the lethal range.
Yet here we see user groups blaming each other, predators, Native Americans, Northern commercials, everything under the sun except the real problems.
You need to acknowledge predators as a real problem.

We can't get hatchery fish back to the Cowlitz or Lewis suddenly. That's not habitat, that's the daily slaughter of smolts in the estuary. Drive over the Astoria-Megler bridge and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I think that predation is having a much bigger impact than any of the "officials" realize or acknowledge. Hundreds of birds and pinnipeds feasting daily. Not good.
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Old 05-24-2020, 05:55 PM   #35
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You need to acknowledge predators as a real problem.

We can't get hatchery fish back to the Cowlitz or Lewis suddenly. That's not habitat, that's the daily slaughter of smolts in the estuary. Drive over the Astoria-Megler bridge and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I think that predation is having a much bigger impact than any of the "officials" realize or acknowledge. Hundreds of birds and pinnipeds feasting daily. Not good.
We agree that predation is a big problem. IMO ODFW is also aware of the magnitude of the problem, but what they can do is severely limited by federal regulations/acts/laws.
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Old 05-24-2020, 07:06 PM   #36
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As for conservation, dead fish are dead fish, and it matters not to that dead fish how it died. Biologists did what they are paid to do: Look at the numbers and decide whether those numbers support some further level of harvest. The compact did what they are supposed to do: Consider the options and weigh opinions then make a decision. They did their jobs, and it looks like most agree with the decision. Why are people so upset?
Because they realize 12 years have been wasted.

Also, they are finding it more and more difficult to prop up the bill of goods they sold as conservation - inventing wins and scandal where none exist.

The runs get smaller and smaller, T&E salmonids fail to recover.

In the mean time putting nets on the back burner and focus on predators for a distraction from the real problem.
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:14 PM   #37
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We agree that predation is a big problem. IMO ODFW is also aware of the magnitude of the problem, but what they can do is severely limited by federal regulations/acts/laws.
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That’s why we supported the section 120 authority to keep California sea lions from wiping out endangered Steelhead at Willamette Falls.

And helped to pass a federal bill to remove more sea lions from the Columbia. And worked in the legislature last session to fund those removals.

To think predators aren’t a major factor in salmon abundance is simply ignoring facts and science
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Bundìn er bàtlaus mađur
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