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Old 01-13-2020, 11:59 AM   #1
Finsalong
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Default Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Thought I would post this back up for those are interested in their own future. Last I heard on a closed thread the Gladstone City Council is well on their way to passing a fee usage at the park.


For those whom are in the know, word of mouth on the land deed transfer was the owner stated there shall never be a fee to the fisherman to use the park.


This has been shot down in the past. And why now, after all this time has it stood to be so??? Last go around with the city and folks who were involved the city had lost the original records.


Think about it, these are your rights going bye bye if you do not show up!

Here is the info for attending: The Parks Board meeting is held in the City Council Chambers, which is located upstairs at Gladstone City Hall, 525 Portland Avenue

Better yet call them: Please contact Gladstone Public Works at 503 656-7957

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Old 01-13-2020, 01:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Does not having a deed transferring the property mean that the heirs own the property?

Lost the paperwork restricting fees? How convenient.

Locally the Boy Scout organization looked to sell a day use property to include salt water beach and discovered that IAW the wording of the deed transfer their only way to dispose the property was to give it back to the heirs. Oops!!

Anyway, good luck on holding them to the terms of the gifting and their acceptance.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

To those who want to keep it free for general public, you can object to fee by sending email to-->

[email protected]

Just cut and paste this or compose your objection in your own words.

"I am submitting my objection to the proposed fee to use Meldrum Bar Park.Mr Meldrum donated the land for sport and outdoor community to have a place free of fee.
I believe Mr Meldrum knew long ago if he didn't write it into transferring deed, excuses to make it a fee park would undermine his wishes.
I strongly object for any kind of fee"




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Old 01-14-2020, 08:13 AM   #4
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

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Originally Posted by piscean View Post
To those who want to keep it free for general public, you can object to fee by sending email to-->

[email protected]

Just cut and paste this or compose your objection in your own words.

"I am submitting my objection to the proposed fee to use Meldrum Bar Park.Mr Meldrum donated the land for sport and outdoor community to have a place free of fee.
I believe Mr Meldrum knew long ago if he didn't write it into transferring deed, excuses to make it a fee park would undermine his wishes.
I strongly object for any kind of fee"




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I like that, thanks for attending it last night!

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Old 01-14-2020, 08:26 AM   #5
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I like that, thanks for attending it last night!

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Yep...and credit goes to one of my friend for the body of this email who is an Ifish member as well.

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Old 01-14-2020, 08:31 AM   #6
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Default Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

The land deed was a 99 year lease. And the lease is up.
Plus the city
The city of Gladstone does not fund their parks and rec. this is the only reason they are going to charge. That and they want to put in a no hook up RV park up near the entrance. Plus a couple more covered picnic areas.
At first they just wanted to charge boats to launch, but decided it would be more profitable to charge everyone, than just boaters. Plus they are not going to charge Gladstone residents, since we already pay taxes on the park.
80% of the park users, are Not Gladstone residents. That is the biggest factor, right there. We pay taxes on the park, but more people use the park, than we have residents of the city. How can you keep up maintenance on 17 parks, with no money from the people using the park. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see yet another fee, but the city can't handle the influx of use age, and not enough money to maintain it.
78% of the city of Gladstone are either retired or disabled, so getting volunteers is hard to do.
The RC track has volunteers to come in and take care of their tracks. The city doesn't do anything with them or the gardens

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Old 01-14-2020, 08:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

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Originally Posted by fishchaser View Post
The land deed was a 99 year lease. And the lease is up.
Plus the city
The city of Gladstone does not fund their parks and rec. this is the only reason they are going to charge. That and they want to put in a no hook up RV park up near the entrance. Plus a couple more covered picnic areas.
At first they just wanted to charge boats to launch, but decided it would be more profitable to charge everyone, than just boaters. Plus they are not going to charge Gladstone residents, since we already pay taxes on the park.
80% of the park users, are Not Gladstone residents

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What it has to do with city of gladstone resident. That was not uttered. They just tried to soften the deal so that they can take the city of gladstone residents on their side. Are you telling me citizens if United States are now divided by counties or cities to use certain park??
Seems like you work for them..the way you are advocating it??

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Old 01-14-2020, 08:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

If the deed transferred in roughly 1970 the lease is not up. There are multiple parcels over 15 with transfers.


It is my understanding that some of the parcels transferred back and forth from state to city. And some of the paperwork is lost.


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Old 01-14-2020, 08:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Personally this is what I see. If you drive from the entrance to the right turn to the boat ramp there are over 30 signs, newly erected in recent years.


That is approx a quarter mile of road, where else do you see 30 free standing road signs and at what cost?


I do not think it is being managed right, or in accordance with Oregon Law. Tax and spend, Tax and spend.


Every time there is a new fee, tax, user dues, no governing body here in Oregon manages the money properly, the spend it from their projections before they even have it. Just look at your fishing license, at first all the funds obtained for that privilege was to go directly to DFW. Now only 10% makes it out of the general fund back to the fishery.


I believe my statements are fairly true, try if you will....
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Supposedly Pete Tracy knows the info on the land deed.


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Old 01-14-2020, 09:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

I'm uncertain of the legalities involved, but have asked ODFW.
Seems I do recall something about not being able to charge fees if they've accepted money and/or work on boating facilities from either ODFW or the Marine Board...
But I could be wrong (again)...
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:02 AM   #12
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

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Personally this is what I see. If you drive from the entrance to the right turn to the boat ramp there are over 30 signs, newly erected in recent years.


That is approx a quarter mile of road, where else do you see 30 free standing road signs and at what cost?


I do not think it is being managed right, or in accordance with Oregon Law. Tax and spend, Tax and spend.


Every time there is a new fee, tax, user dues, no governing body here in Oregon manages the money properly, the spend it from their projections before they even have it. Just look at your fishing license, at first all the funds obtained for that privilege was to go directly to DFW. Now only 10% makes it out of the general fund back to the fishery.


I believe my statements are fairly true, try if you will....
It has nothing to do with this huge paragraph you uttered. If the lease stands, all the arguements in support are NULL & VOID. What part is so hard to understand. City decided to put the signs at their own cost. Nobody asked or went to them. They simply 'acted' like an owner.

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Old 01-14-2020, 09:03 AM   #13
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Bill, according to you son, he told them that they can't charge over $5.00, or they loose their state marine board funding. So they said they only charge $3-5 dollars


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Old 01-14-2020, 09:08 AM   #14
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Default Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

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Originally Posted by piscean View Post
What it has to do with city of gladstone resident. That was not uttered. They just tried to soften the deal so that they can take the city of gladstone residents on their side. Are you telling me citizens if United States are now divided by counties or cities to use certain park??
Seems like you work for them..the way you are advocating it??

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I agree with you, I'm against the fee a 100%, but the city doesn't fund their parks and rec. how else do you pay for repairs and maintenance? The parks and rec only has the general fund to pull from. If the city uses the money for "other things" like their new civic center, new library, new trolley bridge. There is no money left for the parks and rec. at least this money would stay in the parks, (They claim)
Last month I was the one who went off on them! I couldn't make this months. Tonight's meeting is the meeting you want to go to. Tonight is the city counsel meeting. Here you can find out how much money the city IS spending out of the general fund that is NOT going to the parks.


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Old 01-14-2020, 10:03 AM   #15
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Bill, according to you son, he told them that they can't charge over $5.00, or they loose their state marine board funding. So they said they only charge $3-5 dollars


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Thanks...
This from Jeff Boechler, ODFW watershed manager:

I checked on this in early December when I first heard about the parking fee proposal.

The response I received from Oregon Marine Board (Janine Belleque) is that if a fee is implemented it could affect any maintenance funding Gladstone receives from OMB. She also stated that OMB would need to approve that the fee is reasonable.

There are apparently no restrictions relative to ODFW. The only open grant the City of Gladstone currently has with ODFW at Meldrum is for dredging and that grant isn’t affected if they charge a parking fee.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

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Just look at your fishing license, at first all the funds obtained for that privilege was to go directly to DFW. Now only 10% makes it out of the general fund back to the fishery.
...
Here's the good news....you are mistaken about 90% of our license money being diverted away from ODFW.

That 10% figure you cite is the amount of ADDITIONAL funding ODFW currently receives from the state's General Fund. That is in addition to license monies.

Oregon hunting and angling licenses monies go into segregated accounts required by statute. From the ODFW Budget:

" Hunter and Angler License Sales –This is the primary source of Other Fund revenue and comes from the sale of fishing and hunting licenses, tags and permits to recreational anglers and hunters. Federal and state law prohibits diversion of license funds for purposes other than fish and wildlife management. "
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Well then I stand corrected on that one. What we are doing though is trying to prevent a change that may be illegal.


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Old 01-14-2020, 12:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

The “lost” deeds would be of record at the county courthouse.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:46 PM   #19
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Why does a town so small have so many parks if the population cannot support the upkeep? The city must get a significant monetary benefit out of it or they would not have been able to maintain the parks to this point. I know 10 or 15 years ago Gladstone cops would hide in the bushes waiting to hand out revenue generating citations for everything from adults enjoying a beer by the river, littering, smoking, you name it.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:42 PM   #20
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They still do. Believe it or not just couple days back the cop escorted a long time meldrum bar fisherman..a retired army vet...and a very respected gentleman in his community..have a very nice house in Sellwood...because he was 15 minutes early....hour before sunrise...thats when the gate opens now. How dubious of statement it is to write on a board right outside that park opens an hour before sunrise. So thats that for Gladstone cops.

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Old 01-14-2020, 06:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

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The “lost” deeds would be of record at the county courthouse.


Would that fall under The Freedom of Information act. I don't think you can go to the court house and ask for the deed to something you don't own or are not purchasing, can you?


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Old 01-15-2020, 07:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

This type of situation is always a difficult balance.

I would like to see a simple data. How much is spent on the park now from local taxes? What is the planned support form local taxes going forward? What is the desired budget moving forward (in excess of the local moneys) for the improvements? How many users does the park see in a given year (number of non-resident users who would be paying the fee)?

If you divide the anticipated budget shortage by the number of users you get a ballpark figure for a reasonable fee. If the plan is to completely support the park with fees then local residents should not be excluded from paying a fee.

I don't have a problem paying a fee but I would like to have accountability in advance for the spending of the money.

I don't know for sure that all my fee money at Roger's landing or at Hagg go to the respective parks but I don't mind paying those fees because those areas are nicely maintained. I see a return on the money that I pay into the kitty.

A fee can be a useful way to bring about improvements, but it can also be abused if there is not enough visibility into the amount collected and how it is used. As long as Gladstone is going open kimono on the revenue and how it is spent then I would be OK with the fee.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:58 AM   #23
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Any word on what happened at the meeting?
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:25 AM   #24
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I think $12.50(min wage) to enter the park per head with out a floating device and a $10 dollar surcharge on any water craft sounds reasonable. This will also help cover all the revenue from taxes that could be collected on the land if it were developed by Gladtobestoned. Seems completely fair . As far as the residents free ride -You only get a free pass if your name is on the property tax bill check- your kids need to pay full bore. It would also be cool to add gated full service rv spaces with a nice view of the river with a private launch, swim/fish beach, dock and play ground. I think $65 per day non resident or $55 if you pay Gladstone taxes. This should discourage the troublesome while providing a well deserved respite for high tax contributors. $12.50(min wage) entry fee is a great price if you think about it. That park can get a little creepy with all the free riders who walk in from Gladstone

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Old 01-15-2020, 08:50 AM   #25
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

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Would that fall under The Freedom of Information act. I don't think you can go to the court house and ask for the deed to something you don't own or are not purchasing, can you?


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It is all public records. Here in Central Oregon I can look up any deeds online. From my experience most of the valley cities and counties charge though.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:51 AM   #26
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Default Re: Meldrums Bar Fee Meeting Tonight

Stoned, for sure.


Nothing has moved forward yet. City Manager has over 15 deed transfers and is looking into it. I do not like it. Word I got from friend whom attended the meeting states: City Manager says there is more than enough money for maintenance for the park as is sits now.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:54 AM   #27
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Wow, that seems a little high. Carver park day use per vehicle/parking is $6 and an additional $2 if towing a boat.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:57 AM   #28
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Would that fall under The Freedom of Information act. I don't think you can go to the court house and ask for the deed to something you don't own or are not purchasing, can you?


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Records should be at Clackamas County Records. You can do a title search and go from there. You can do a title search for any property to see deed restrictions and covenants. You just have to pay for the copies.
They never have asked me what connection I have with a property. They just need an address or book and page number to look it up.

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Old 01-15-2020, 09:00 AM   #29
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I think $12.50(min wage) to enter the park per head with out a floating device and a $10 dollar surcharge on any water craft sounds reasonable.
This is unreasonable. $12.50 per head? Sometimes I just drive in, park, and watch the fishermen for 10 minutes and leave. You think it's reasonable for two of us to pay $25 to do that?


Who's passing out that koolaid?
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:05 AM   #30
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I think $12.50(min wage) to enter the park per head with out a floating device and a $10 dollar surcharge on any water craft sounds reasonable. This will also help cover all the revenue from taxes that could be collected on the land if it were developed by Gladtobestoned. Seems completely fair . As far as the residents free ride -You only get a free pass if your name is on the property tax bill check- your kids need to pay full bore. It would also be cool to add gated full service rv spaces with a nice view of the river with a private launch, swim/fish beach, dock and play ground. I think $65 per day non resident or $55 if you pay Gladstone taxes. This should discourage the troublesome while providing a well deserved respite for high tax contributors. $12.50(min wage) entry fee is a great price if you think about it. That park can get a little creepy with all the free riders who walk in from Gladstone
I guess it would make it a great place for the VERY FEW! Because I doubt any normal person is going to pay this to go to Meldrum Bar. Specially just to launch their boat.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:41 AM   #31
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This is unreasonable. $12.50 per head? Sometimes I just drive in, park, and watch the fishermen for 10 minutes and leave. You think it's reasonable for two of us to pay $25 to do that?


Who's passing out that koolaid?
One word comes to mind..................factitious.

....however, just link of the revenue that could be generated during springer season, soccer or softball tournaments, etc.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:52 AM   #32
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It'll be like $5 and I'll gladly pay it. All the fussing over fees when there's so many people deteriorating the infrastructure seems odd to me; fees will go to improvements and new structures to make it nicer; it's got to be paid for somehow.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:18 PM   #33
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I guess it would make it a great place for the VERY FEW! Because I doubt any normal person is going to pay this to go to Meldrum Bar. Specially just to launch their boat.
Exactly. The ones who pay can enjoy the park in a much less crowded manner with like minded fellows. There would be much less people in the park creating messes. Maintenance and up keep costs could be kept to a minimum while at the same time the physical hardware in the park would receive less wear thus reducing the city's obligations to fix or update stuff while at the same time charging more money for less its freaking brilliant. But most importantly it would reduce our carbon footprint in the area by curtailing usage

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Old 01-15-2020, 12:22 PM   #34
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It'll be like $5 and I'll gladly pay it. All the fussing over fees when there's so many people deteriorating the infrastructure seems odd to me; fees will go to improvements and new structures to make it nicer; it's got to be paid for somehow.
But how many times over do you have to pay for it? 1,2,5? I say a reasonable fee for putting motorized vehicles into the river and a voluntary donation for all others. As an American citizen and taxpayer I already own it so why should I have to pay to walk down and look at the river during lunch?
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:55 PM   #35
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But how many times over do you have to pay for it? 1,2,5? I say a reasonable fee for putting motorized vehicles into the river and a voluntary donation for all others. As an American citizen and taxpayer I already own it so why should I have to pay to walk down and look at the river during lunch?
I think the point is that a large % of American citizen's don't individually pay much in taxes. They rely on the few who work hard to generate the bulk of the $. So as a tax payer you might own a lot less of the park than you think you deserve.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:01 PM   #36
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What it has to do with city of gladstone resident. That was not uttered. They just tried to soften the deal so that they can take the city of gladstone residents on their side. Are you telling me citizens if United States are now divided by counties or cities to use certain park??
Seems like you work for them..the way you are advocating it??

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Yeah!! Cuz being able to launch your boat at a nicely maintained boat ramp, at other people's expense, is obviously another basic human right!....

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Old 01-15-2020, 01:10 PM   #37
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I was wondering when oh-so-self righteous gonna come up with full on sarcasm. I can afford boat ramp and probably can donate to that boat ramp. God has given me way more than enough where I have stomped the globe and still goin on full bloom. If you do not get the gist of subject, its better not to speak.

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Old 01-15-2020, 08:05 PM   #38
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UPDATE! This is a grassroots campaign.


The money for the new boat dock I believe came from federal sources. Please correct me if I am wrong.


This is what alarms me. Today, we know something like 78 percent of Gladstone is retired or disabled, correct???


Today, I met a man, elderly, lived in Gladstone since the 70's, did not even have a clue this was happening. I encouraged him to attend the city hall meeting, regardless of his stance.


He commented to me, that he walks his dog everyday down there. You can see how much of the actual community is involved. Gladstone or otherwise.


I do not see the gregarious fees actually being instituted.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:08 PM   #39
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*Egregious fees?
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:36 PM   #40
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UPDATE! This is a grassroots campaign.


The money for the new boat dock I believe came from federal sources. Please correct me if I am wrong.


This is what alarms me. Today, we know something like 78 percent of Gladstone is retired or disabled, correct???


Today, I met a man, elderly, lived in Gladstone since the 70's, did not even have a clue this was happening. I encouraged him to attend the city hall meeting, regardless of his stance.


He commented to me, that he walks his dog everyday down there. You can see how much of the actual community is involved. Gladstone or otherwise.


I do not see the gregarious fees actually being instituted.
Thank you Fins! I was not able to attend tonite since my kid had Dr's appt.

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Old 01-15-2020, 08:50 PM   #41
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What’s going to happen when river road becomes a parking lot from people who don’t want to pay and walk in? I would bet a pretty penny those car dealerships that line that main drag in front of the entrance are the ones who are going to put the kibosh on this whole idea of paying to park in meldrum bar park. + the soccer,baseball,softball fields would get no activity as teams would schedule around it.
If the city wants to make some revenue off it, charge the trailered boats 7$. I’d gladly pay that.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:00 AM   #42
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Point is today, you do not have to pay that additional fee due in part to the good thoughts of landowners whom wanted people in future generations to be able to participate and contribute to the future of the fisheries without the massive undertaking that good does.


Think about it, it has been this way for decades, even before then. I have heard stories of how groups of guys would have large WILD parties, lighting massive piles of logs on fire and cooking fish they caught right there!


I am sure certain residents of West Linn, would look on in jealousy.


Seriously, attend the meetings. Oregon law, and land deed trusts have been around for decades.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:30 PM   #43
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This just in, read it and weep:


https://katu.com/news/local/new-bill...to-state-parks


All due in part to lower attendance, in the millions.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:13 PM   #44
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It is saddening to me ( a mear taxpayer) lifelong local, not necessarily LOCAL but grew up here and grew up on the "Meldrum pond property" before it was deemed a proposed boat ramp.
What a shame for local Cistasnzes who grew up here with a lifelong destination
of free places to drive, park, eat lunch and enjoy!!!!!
Think what I might want to do next????
YEAH listen to METRO ----City Of GLADSTONE---- IT IS WAY TOOO BAD, MAYBE AS BAD AS THE GREED OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKIE!!!!!
GARRY YOUNG







..... about how much money you
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:21 PM   #45
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I think $12.50(min wage) to enter the park per head with out a floating device and a $10 dollar surcharge on any water craft sounds reasonable. This will also help cover all the revenue from taxes that could be collected on the land if it were developed by Gladtobestoned. Seems completely fair . As far as the residents free ride -You only get a free pass if your name is on the property tax bill check- your kids need to pay full bore. It would also be cool to add gated full service rv spaces with a nice view of the river with a private launch, swim/fish beach, dock and play ground. I think $65 per day non resident or $55 if you pay Gladstone taxes. This should discourage the troublesome while providing a well deserved respite for high tax contributors. $12.50(min wage) entry fee is a great price if you think about it. That park can get a little creepy with all the free riders who walk in from Gladstone
Great idea. It could be renamed Meldrum a Largo. Complete w valet parking, a wine bar and spa for the ladies when the menfolk are fishing. The entry fee would keep the riff-raff with the F150's and SmokerCrafts out of there. Loomis rods and Shimano Calcuttas and Stella reels only.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:31 AM   #46
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I read it and wept... not because of the top story though. When I scrolled down, I saw that the Tippy Canoe restaurant on the Sandy burned down.


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Old 01-17-2020, 08:42 AM   #47
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Great idea. It could be renamed Meldrum a Largo. Complete w valet parking, a wine bar and spa for the ladies when the menfolk are fishing. The entry fee would keep the riff-raff with the F150's and SmokerCrafts out of there. Loomis rods and Shimano Calcuttas and Stella reels only.
Ahhh yes DILLY, DILLY - Nothing launches smaller than 3/4 ton diesel and 200 hp out boards . All kayaks can walk in from river road.
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