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Old 12-06-2019, 04:25 PM   #1
montucky
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Default PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

HI All,

I'm embarking on a build of a 22' ft PC Dory - and thought some of you might be interested - especially if you are thinking about doing a build some day. This design is from the Glen-L Hunky Dory plans that you can find here. If you are not familiar - Glen-L has a pretty large selection of boat designs....some are a bit dated, but they happen to have a sea dory design that is about as close to the real PC Dory style of construction and hull lines of any easily available plans out there.

Sides are 30 degree angle, transom mounted engine version has a 15 degree transom

Anyway, the frames are made out of reclaimed D-fir....very tight grained, clear, dry stuff, but was a pain to mill to specs.

Planking will be Oregon-made D-fir marine ply. Getting 3/8 marine D-fir ply was a pain! Mr. Plyood and other local places could only get 1/2 and 3/4. Most places I called are no longer able to source Roseburg's full line of marine plywood.

Epoxy is Raka from Duckworks - pretty good quality for a good price. Fiberglass is from Thayercraft

Some key changes are needed to make the boat more like a Learned-style boat for example:

1. the Hunky comes with options for well-mounted engine and a transom mount...but in both options - the transom is very low; flush with the sides. So raising the transom height and splashwell seemed sensible.

2. The sides and bow were raised slightly - just to make it a bit deeper.

3. The outside bottom strakes are removed to make beaching possible, but the bottom will have two layers of 3/8 ply vs. one layer of 1/2" listed in the plans. not to mention some heavier glass on the sole

4. the inside will be oiled not epoxied or painted.

5. oh also i laminated plywood to both sides of the bottom piece of most frames - to shore up the strength of the centerline where pounding forces are exerting the most pressure on the boat.

Right now I have the bowstem and transom on - and all frames are plumb and level and locked down. Next i have to mark and cut notches for chines and outer sheerclamps - then will be ready for plywood.

Here are a few pics - ill try to keep them coming.
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Last edited by montucky; 12-06-2019 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Looking good! I'm excited to watch it take shape. After seeing how well Bob's turned out a few years ago I'm interested in starting my own soon. Enjoy!

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Old 12-06-2019, 06:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Love build threads! Thanks for inviting us along.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:22 PM   #4
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Looking forward to this build. I used Raka epoxy on my Harvey good stuff you might consider getting some silica to thicken it up it will help with runs during the colder months
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Sounds like you already found planking but I ran across some 4'x20'x3/8" of plywood on Facebook market place the other day.



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Old 12-07-2019, 08:39 AM   #6
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Subscribed. Can’t wait to see the progress photos
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:56 AM   #7
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Sounds like you already found planking but I ran across some 4'x20'x3/8" of plywood on Facebook market place the other day.



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thanks I saw that - going to try and grab those if they are still available!
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:33 PM   #8
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RAKA is nice to work with. Their non blush hardener is my fave. The mix stays workable for a long time, and when it decides to harden, it happens quickly.

A good half hour working time, then sandable next morning.

I get all of my fillers at RAKA as well. Fumed silica, phenolic micro, glass bubbles, milled glass, wood flour, 1/4" chopped glass. Every mix unique.

Do yourself a big favor and always slather enough silica thickened epoxy into each wood to wood joint to achieve 100% squish out. This eliminates rot where wood meets wood, the main killer of dories. I have yet to see anything like 100% squish on a wooden PC dory.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Great to see a new 'wooden Dory' coming to town. Looking great!
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:28 AM   #10
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

You could always mix it up and go with plastic over wood.

I have a wood drift boat with an extra layer of UHMW on the bottom to help keep the wood from getting so tore up going over rocks.


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Old 12-13-2019, 11:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by gettin' fishy View Post
You could always mix it up and go with plastic over wood.

I have a wood drift boat with an extra layer of UHMW on the bottom to help keep the wood from getting so tore up going over rocks.


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yeah I was thinking about that - I heard the UHMW doesnt really work well with epoxy - so was wonder about attachment to the bottom. Maybe a system where you could bore over-sized holes in the bottom, fill with epoxy, then drill in to spec and wrench in brass threaded inserts and screw uhmw into that?

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Old 12-13-2019, 12:44 PM   #12
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yeah I was thinking about that - I heard the UHMW doesnt really work well with epoxy - so was wonder about attachment to the bottom. Maybe a system where you could bore over-sized holes in the bottom, fill with epoxy, then drill in to spec and wrench in brass threaded inserts and screw uhmw into that?
Not a good idea for a dory. UHMW expands and contracts too much with temp change. A couple layers of 1708 and epoxy, finished with an epoxy, graphite, cabosil slurry will be most excellent.
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Agree with Joe. Ask Mike on Beer Can what they coated his bottom with. It slides great for an aluminum hull
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:27 PM   #14
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Not a good idea for a dory. UHMW expands and contracts too much with temp change. A couple layers of 1708 and epoxy, finished with an epoxy, graphite, cabosil slurry will be most excellent.
thanks that was basically my plan - sides will have one layer of 10oz glass and bottom will have the 10oz layer plus a 22oz layer, then multiple graphite coats on the bottom
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Old 12-13-2019, 04:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

My advice to you is post often and include pictures on your progress. Build projects are some of the best content on Ifish. Thanks for the thread.

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Old 12-13-2019, 11:34 PM   #16
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I'm sold on using the bi/triaxial type reinforcement fabrics with the mat layer. 1708 is just one of many weights available. The axial fabrics are not woven, but stitched at 45/45 or other angles, making the finished layup much more structural. That said, most are familiar with this info.

What really sets the axial with mat products apart in terms of user friendliness is the layer of mat. The thin layer of mat, bonded to the axial cloth greatly stabilizes the material, virtually eliminating the problem of the fabric moving and changing shape as the resin is being applied and worked. This is a huge advantage. The mat is really there to provide something to sand smooth without getting into the structural part. The major increase in stability and handling quality is big advantage as well.

I love being able to cut a piece, any size, lay it up, wet it out, it is the same size and shape when finished.

Early in the 2017 season, I finally had to fix some excessive wear areas on the bottom of my Harvey, roughly 50% of the bottom was worn into the roving from a thousand beach slides plus the 100 yard slide on Sandlake Road a few years earlier. Other areas of worn away gelcoat needed sealing. The bottom was largely grooved and scratched. thoroughly in some areas.

Anyone that has laid heavy fiberglass on the bottom of a boat while laying on their back will understand my concern and why I had put the work off so long. What could possibly go wrong? After unloading the boat and cribbing it up about 18"and after some quality time prepping and cleaning, then two weeks of nice warm weather, the bare fiberglass finally was dry.

Working solo and fully expecting to soon be wearing a heavy, resin saturated slab of 1708 draped across my body, it was time. Much to my surprise, in part due to the stability of the patches of 1708, the task went very well. Every patch went up, stayed up and sanded smooth easily.

The second patch was 5' X 6' and laid up there perfectly. In hindsight, I should have done the whole bottom. Three pieces and done. Didn't happen, It's still a patchwork.

Having done the several coats of epoxy/graphite on the TEXAN's bottom I wasn't thrilled with the prospect of coating my patches and other bare areas on the bottom of Wild Ride. To roll and tip epoxy/graphite for a smooth finish it goes on fairly thin and with gravity working against me I expected to be wearing some of the black goo and sanding drips and runs between coats. Epoxy/graphite is quite soft and totally miserable to sand. fine, black powder everywhere.

Hoping for improvement, I went way outside "the box" and tried something new. Something I've never seen or heard of. Dead simple and couldn't have worked better, especially considering laying on my back and working a foot over my face.

Simple mix. Mix graphite and fumed silica/cabosil half and half by volume. Thoroughly mix and set aside. Warm weather, so I used slow epoxy. Like 50 minute slow. First a very thin wet of the area with a more standard, 20 minute epoxy/hardener. allow to tack, then the slow stuff thickened with the graphite/silica mix. The mix is thick, thixotropic when applied. Somewhat thinner than mayonnaise? Applicator was a 6" drywall knife with rounded corners.

After mixing the goo and dumping in a paint tray, it was applied with the putty knife only. Still shiny black, it goes on amazingly well. Scoop a blob with the putty knife/spreader, spread on the prepped surface. Like a trowel. Close to 100% coverage with every stroke. The stuff laid on like glass. any ridges or tool marks easily troweled flat.

Scarcely believing my luck, shiny black in one step, no drips, runs or problems needing sandpaper. IPA time. Planning to scuff the gloss off with scotchbrite and recoat the next day, I didn't. Just some touchup on a couple thin areas I could see thru. I used the remainder to cover and fill some deep scratched areas/road rash. Didn't even wet it first. Just troweled it in with pressure. One stroke.

Bottom line. The coating is much harder than just graphite mix. 100 landings later, most of it is still there. It wears smooth and slick. Definitely got lucky with that experiment, and see no reason to look farther at this time.
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:24 AM   #17
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Looking forward to this build. I used Raka epoxy on my Harvey good stuff you might consider getting some silica to thicken it up it will help with runs during the colder months
Pecan Flour to thicken.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:27 AM   #18
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Joe, I wonder if that stuff would work on an aluminum drift boat?
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:13 PM   #19
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Joe, I wonder if that stuff would work on an aluminum drift boat?
No obvious reason why not. One way to find out. The properties seem right and the cost is negligible with the bulk materials on hand. So easy and forgiving to apply that some degree of success is assured. Several options on prep, but I think a 5-10 minute scrub with scotcbrite, rinse, and solvent wipe would be fine.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:42 PM   #20
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Well I got a little delayed as I had to re-level the frames...it looks like something got knocked moving plywood in and out of the space - or the ground settled under my temporary floor. After that was done I milled the longitudinals and scarfed pieces as needed.

I put a 30 angle of the both sides of the chine (the plans called for a 90 angle on the inside cut leaving a water catch issue between the chine and the plywood).

Next I dry fitted the chines and scribed the notch cuts and cut them out on one side and dry-fitted again. Then dry-fitted the sheerclamps and worked on scribing a nice sheerline before notching out.

I would have cut the sheerline right from the plans, but my only complaint about some of the PC Dories is the bathtub sheerline shape of the aft section of the boat which likely evolved as a practical part of the side boxes. Also the Hunky has a relatively lower bow and shallow sides than most PC boats. SO I want the sheerline to have a little more pleasing nature... be at its lowest point amidships (for crab pots etc) and rise to the stern and bow in a nice traditional arch. Not unnecessarily huge sweeps but a better line hopefully.

I should be able to post all the longitudinals installed tomorrow and a good bit of the faring done hopefully.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:53 AM   #21
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Wow, you're making fast progress. Looking at your pics, I can almost smell the timber. I notice a space heater in one of the pics. I used similar heaters on my wherry build, but it was difficult to get them to cover large areas, especially when doing epoxy. Some Salty Dogs (Joe Evens among them) suggested that radiant heaters would be better, which made a lot of sense.
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:50 PM   #22
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Love Real Boat Builds. Doesn't matter material type. They are all good. Quick progress.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Well I got a little delayed as I had to re-level the frames...it looks like something got knocked moving plywood in and out of the space - or the ground settled under my temporary floor. After that was done I milled the longitudinals and scarfed pieces as needed.

I put a 30 angle of the both sides of the chine (the plans called for a 90 angle on the inside cut leaving a water catch issue between the chine and the plywood).

Next I dry fitted the chines and scribed the notch cuts and cut them out on one side and dry-fitted again. Then dry-fitted the sheerclamps and worked on scribing a nice sheerline before notching out.

I would have cut the sheerline right from the plans, but my only complaint about some of the PC Dories is the bathtub sheerline shape of the aft section of the boat which likely evolved as a practical part of the side boxes. Also the Hunky has a relatively lower bow and shallow sides than most PC boats. SO I want the sheerline to have a little more pleasing nature... be at its lowest point amidships (for crab pots etc) and rise to the stern and bow in a nice traditional arch. Not unnecessarily huge sweeps but a better line hopefully.

I should be able to post all the longitudinals installed tomorrow and a good bit of the faring done hopefully.
Nice job on beveling the top of the chine log. Often not seen on PC dories. I don't understand why.

My TEXAN II, the earliest known example of the PC square stern dory, has the top beveled chine log, considered standard best practice when it was built, winter of 1957/58. Fully bonded, no rot.

I am curious about your aft sheerline plan. Sweeping it up aft will give the boat an hourglass effect viewed from either end, less beam in the waist. This would also complicate the gear trays.

The gear trays are the best feature to ever evolve for the dory, even more so for the 30 degree side boats like the Texan and the Hunky. The storage is nice, but the huge benefit is in working the rail, radically helping security and general fishability of dories by bringing the inwales towards vertical.

Having recently built gear trays for the TEXAN II, which tumbles in a bit at the stern because it was originally built with two inches of aft rocker, then modified to flat, I know all too well how tricky building trays into a curved side can be.

Then again, I may be visualizing your plan wrongly.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:43 PM   #24
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Not to mention the increased rigidity to the gunwales. Of course, unless I am visualizing your plan wrongly, also.

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Old 12-15-2019, 07:42 PM   #25
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Nice job on beveling the top of the chine log. Often not seen on PC dories. I don't understand why.

My TEXAN II, the earliest known example of the PC square stern dory, has the top beveled chine log, considered standard best practice when it was built, winter of 1957/58. Fully bonded, no rot.

I am curious about your aft sheerline plan. Sweeping it up aft will give the boat an hourglass effect viewed from either end, less beam in the waist. This would also complicate the gear trays.

The gear trays are the best feature to ever evolve for the dory, even more so for the 30 degree side boats like the Texan and the Hunky. The storage is nice, but the huge benefit is in working the rail, radically helping security and general fishability of dories by bringing the inwales towards vertical.

Having recently built gear trays for the TEXAN II, which tumbles in a bit at the stern because it was originally built with two inches of aft rocker, then modified to flat, I know all too well how tricky building trays into a curved side can be.

Then again, I may be visualizing your plan wrongly.
JE
Yeah I know what you mean - the reason I did this is that I had room to play. I ran all my side frame pieces longer than the hunky plans (the hunky calls for only about 37 inches side height in the first 7 frame stations). Thus my lowest frame amidships is still a bit higher than the hunky side specs.

Also I plan to add the boxes but, what can I say, I just wanted the boat to have a subtle curve to her sheerline! Not to mentions since many PC Dories have a high transom - it makes sense to me that a sheerline would rise a bit to meet that high transom.... mostly aesthetics maybe....Sort of like a Tolman which is not a flat sheerline aft.

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Old 12-15-2019, 07:43 PM   #26
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Wow, you're making fast progress. Looking at your pics, I can almost smell the timber. I notice a space heater in one of the pics. I used similar heaters on my wherry build, but it was difficult to get them to cover large areas, especially when doing epoxy. Some Salty Dogs (Joe Evens among them) suggested that radiant heaters would be better, which made a lot of sense.
Yeah the heat issue is a real issue! I gotta go buy a couple more. The other issue is space. the 22ft boat is bigger than it looks in a small shop. I realize now that its really important to be able to step back and look at how the lines on frame look...saves a lot of fairing.

If anyone has a 2000 sq ft shop they would like to give up - I would take it off their hands

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Old 12-15-2019, 07:48 PM   #27
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Ok well I almost got to my goal - everything short of installing the stringers. Chines and sheerclamps are glued and screwed.

I was thinking about doing three 1x5 stringers vs. the four 1x4 called for in the plans. thoughts?

There was a fair amount of muscle involved in turning the chines and sheerclamps around the turns...while trying to clamp, glue, pilot drill, and driving screws.

Sorry I have had issues trying to get my pics oriented right - so you have to click on the image again to see it normally.
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Last edited by montucky; 12-15-2019 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:23 PM   #28
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WOW Montuck. That's gonna to be beautimus.
Wish I'd learned that kinda wood working when I was in high school.
But I didn't take any kind of metal, electrical or wood shop while there for those 10 years.
Just took band and a coupla years of photography.
Shoulda tossed that trombone when I was in the 5th grade.
Now too old to learn that kinda constructive stuff.
Tinman's wherry is another example. I'm envious.
But sure like to follow along with the pictorial.
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Old 12-15-2019, 09:23 PM   #29
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For smaller areas the simple, old school "chicken light" from the local feed store is perfect for curing epoxy. 300 watts and it will warm several sq ft of wood. Once the sides are hung, 3 or 4 lights under the boat should keep the entire hull nice and warm, regardless of air temp.
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Old 12-16-2019, 06:38 AM   #30
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For smaller areas the simple, old school "chicken light" from the local feed store is perfect for curing epoxy. 300 watts and it will warm several sq ft of wood. Once the sides are hung, 3 or 4 lights under the boat should keep the entire hull nice and warm, regardless of air temp.
Be real careful with those chicken lights and the spring clamp.

Many a barn has burned down as a result of the light falling from where it was clamped into something combustible. Last one I know of was a friend in Idaho that used some to keep newborn kid goats warm. Not only did it burn down the kidding room but the barn as well. Needless to say all the kid goats were burned to death.

We use a different type for our barns, they are very sturdy and are hung from overhead with chain and metal harness snaps. As backup the cord is tied above, so even if the chain fails the tied off cord will suspend the light and keep it from falling into the straw below.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:04 AM   #31
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WOW Montuck. That's gonna to be beautimus.
Wish I'd learned that kinda wood working when I was in high school.
But I didn't take any kind of metal, electrical or wood shop while there for those 10 years.
Just took band and a coupla years of photography.
Shoulda tossed that trombone when I was in the 5th grade.
Now too old to learn that kinda constructive stuff.
Tinman's wherry is another example. I'm envious.
But sure like to follow along with the pictorial.
THanks! I will say however that the carpentry skills required are really no more than competency measuring and cutting reasonably accurately. Since this boat has no deadrise or other complex rounded shapes (that one sheet of plywood wont mate to), it is a very simple and attainable design.

You could do the whole thing with a protractor, skillsaw, jigsaw, drill-driver set, hand saw, carpenter's square, hammer, chisel, plane, and masonry line. Maybe a table saw would help. Mostly it is just a long series of simple steps that are very simple individually...but a lot of them. Honestly if you build a bird box to spec, you can do this...you just have to embrace the pace of countless small steps.

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Old 12-17-2019, 01:39 PM   #32
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Be real careful with those chicken lights and the spring clamp.

Many a barn has burned down as a result of the light falling from where it was clamped into something combustible. Last one I know of was a friend in Idaho that used some to keep newborn kid goats warm. Not only did it burn down the kidding room but the barn as well. Needless to say all the kid goats were burned to death.

We use a different type for our barns, they are very sturdy and are hung from overhead with chain and metal harness snaps. As backup the cord is tied above, so even if the chain fails the tied off cord will suspend the light and keep it from falling into the straw below.
That’s a fact.. Had a pet store with a little fire earlier this year from just this issue.


Interesting build M, I wish I would have caught it earlier on than now. Looks like you’re committed to the new sheer line (which can be a challenge to get right upside down). Hope she’s what you shot for.


Your jig looks great. I’d highly recommend grabbing a copy of Drift Boats and River Dories, as that book has a great step by step of how PC dories were typically built, and it’s still how the Learned girls do it under Terry’s watch. No jigs, just the sides shaped and a good number of pencil lines. Screw the sides to the stem, attach them to the transom, then slip the frames in from back to front and she magically turns into a boat. There’s more potential for a bit of drift, so you know with your jig you’ll be square.


Keep it up, looking forward to a splash.


E
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Old 12-17-2019, 02:14 PM   #33
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The problem with radiant heat is that it might get focused, air circulation seems safer not only for the fire hazard but keeping all the pieces warm enough to cure the epoxy.
If you were to hang a plastic screen around the boat, not touching but close, I think you could maintain temps that are in the range needed to cure. Take it down after the epoxy sets up and you move onto to the next step. I have done that successfully with similar projects to cure epoxy and to keep dirt and bugs out, but a number of bugs have gone to sea with me
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:29 PM   #34
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The problem with radiant heat is that it might get focused, air circulation seems safer not only for the fire hazard but keeping all the pieces warm enough to cure the epoxy.
If you were to hang a plastic screen around the boat, not touching but close, I think you could maintain temps that are in the range needed to cure. Take it down after the epoxy sets up and you move onto to the next step. I have done that successfully with similar projects to cure epoxy and to keep dirt and bugs out, but a number of bugs have gone to sea with me
Thanks Edsr - you read my mind! I installed the stringers today and covered the boat with plastic. I bought a second, larger "Vortex" space heater. They have been really good at running for long hours without failure.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:40 PM   #35
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That’s a fact.. Had a pet store with a little fire earlier this year from just this issue.


Interesting build M, I wish I would have caught it earlier on than now. Looks like you’re committed to the new sheer line (which can be a challenge to get right upside down). Hope she’s what you shot for.


Your jig looks great. I’d highly recommend grabbing a copy of Drift Boats and River Dories, as that book has a great step by step of how PC dories were typically built, and it’s still how the Learned girls do it under Terry’s watch. No jigs, just the sides shaped and a good number of pencil lines. Screw the sides to the stem, attach them to the transom, then slip the frames in from back to front and she magically turns into a boat. There’s more potential for a bit of drift, so you know with your jig you’ll be square.


Keep it up, looking forward to a splash.


E
Thanks! - the sheerline is really a minor adjustment in my opinion. The total curve in the back 7 frame stations is only about an 1 1/2 inch rise from frame 6 or 7 to frame 1. Going forward from frame 7, I added quite a bit more height...yes this was a bit complex as I had to add length to the bowstem etc but I feel it was worth it. If you look at the original lines of the Hunky unmodified - it is really a much lower side and bow than what say a Learned boat is currently.

The Glen-L designs are largely circa 1960's or so give or take and I imagine that when designing for garage builders - companies like Glen-L avoided steeper lines and curves to aide the beginner who also may not have great wood selection.

Yeah I watched a video of a Learned boat being assembled on the floor. I can imagine that is a natural evolution once you build more than one. These boats have extremely simple measurements which I dont think I fully appreciated until now. Having build boats like canoes and one v-forward skiff...I realize one could almost write the plans for a PC dory on one notebook page. THe frames are simple as can be, but the key, thing I think, is the plywood side and bottom shape. If you can loft that or trace it off your first boat on a jig - then you are good to go and can abandon the jig forever after. Makes sense and what a relief it would be if you were in a production pace.

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Old 12-17-2019, 03:43 PM   #36
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Here are a couple of pics after permanently installing the stringers. Not sure if I want to add a couple smaller ones.......any opinions on stringers? Keep in mind this boat will have 2 layers of 3/8" plywood. These stringers are 1x5 D-Fir
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Old 12-17-2019, 07:18 PM   #37
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I do have one chicken light that I use occasionally for small stuff, but my current warm room works very well. My shop is too big and drafty to maintain consistent, warm temps. The solution was to knock up a light framework, just 2 x 2" frames and stringers. just 4 frames. It frames up about 28 ft long, 7 ft high. just wide enough to work around the boat. the frames are about 10 or 11 ft wide at top and 13 wide at bottom. pretty snug. Basically, I pull 6 miil visqeen over it and secure with lathe.

I heat the inside with one of those 220 volt garage heaters. the heater just sits on the floor. The boat lives on a sturdy frame on casters, so I can easily move it about inside the warm room for adequate room to work.

This works very well. I can maintain 70 degrees with 60% humidity easily. Any weather. The wood stove in my 28' x36' shop keeps the chill off.

That 220 V heater uses some juice, but it is so nice to be ready to do quality epoxy work at all times. No worries, increased efficiency, consistent results.

Yes, most earlier dories had constant height sides. Beginning with the Texan series, A successful design is always a great place to work from. The Salem Boats, the Hunky's, several others. The constant chord sides worked well, and still do. The Salem Boats stayed with these sides throughout production. It works well and the cut off plywood is more useful. Aluminum dories are typically built this way as well.

Interestingly, Salem dories also stayed with the inside and outside, doubled chine log of the original, the Texan dory.

Vic Ferrington was the first to taper the sides ASFAIK.

The Texan line, Vic Ferrington/PC Boatworks dories, and I presume Salem Boat's were all jig built.

Jigs are the way to go for real production. A proper production jig will build hundreds of dories, each the same shape, very efficiently. This was one reason builders like Vic/PC Boatworks and Salem Boat Specialties built a thousand dories and others built a hundred.

A simple jig for a home built dory doesn't even need to be extremely accurate, so long as the ribs can be shimmed and clamped to accuracy.
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:12 PM   #38
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Here are a couple of pics after permanently installing the stringers. Not sure if I want to add a couple smaller ones.......any opinions on stringers? Keep in mind this boat will have 2 layers of 3/8" plywood. These stringers are 1x5 D-Fir
It looks a bit sketchy in terms of fasteners that actually attach the bottom to the frames. The fasteners that anchor the stringers to the frames are the only thing attaching the bottom to the boat, in the middle.

Fastener spacing/pitch across each frame contributes to torsional rigidity. Nothing is more important. Consider that the basic, standard dory design has a fastener every 4 or 6 inches across each frame, plus glue, if used, and torsional issues are not uncommon, especially after a few decades of use..

Personally, I would add two more stringers and make certain the stringers are attached to the frames as well as humanly possible.
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:14 PM   #39
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I do have one chicken light that I use occasionally for small stuff, but my current warm room works very well. My shop is too big and drafty to maintain consistent, warm temps. The solution was to knock up a light framework, just 2 x 2" frames and stringers. just 4 frames. It frames up about 28 ft long, 7 ft high. just wide enough to work around the boat. the frames are about 10 or 11 ft wide at top and 13 wide at bottom. pretty snug. Basically, I pull 6 miil visqeen over it and secure with lathe.

I heat the inside with one of those 220 volt garage heaters. the heater just sits on the floor. The boat lives on a sturdy frame on casters, so I can easily move it about inside the warm room for adequate room to work.

This works very well. I can maintain 70 degrees with 60% humidity easily. Any weather. The wood stove in my 28' x36' shop keeps the chill off.

That 220 V heater uses some juice, but it is so nice to be ready to do quality epoxy work at all times. No worries, increased efficiency, consistent results.

Yes, most earlier dories had constant height sides. Beginning with the Texan series, A successful design is always a great place to work from. The Salem Boats, the Hunky's, several others. The constant chord sides worked well, and still do. The Salem Boats stayed with these sides throughout production. It works well and the cut off plywood is more useful. Aluminum dories are typically built this way as well.

Interestingly, Salem dories stayed with the inside and outside, doubled chine log of the original, the Texan dory.

Vic Ferrington was the first to taper the sides ASFAIK.

The Texan line, Vic Ferrington/PC Boatworks dories, and I presume Salem Boat's were all jig built.

Jigs are the way to go for real production. A proper production jig will build hundreds of dories, each the same shape, very efficiently. This was one reason builders like Vic and Salem Boat specialties built a thousand dories and others built a hundred.

A simple jig for a home built dory doesn't even need to be extremely accurate, so long as the ribs can be shimmed and clamped to accuracy.

Good points. I assumed, maybe wrongly, that the since the jig in this case doesnt involve a mold (the frames go with the boat) that it would just be added work to mount, center, plumb and level and brace the frames when you could just drop frames into pre-cut plywood sides on the floor - and be done.?

That makes sense that the side was straight for cut-off reasons, its easier, a bit faster to build and works with sideboxes. (and not be argumentative) but the side height of a hunky when you are standing on a ply floor over the framing - is about 33 inches. its not bad at all, but obviously local builders made them deeper over time. Since i wanted a deeper boat, I thought it would be nice to give the boat some kind of modest curve to a high transom, ....maybe just a nod to the original dory form. I grew up in coastal Maine and Mass - so some shapes are right and others not right
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:33 PM   #40
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It looks a bit sketchy in terms of fasteners that actually attach the bottom to the frames. The fasteners that anchor the stringers to the frames are the only thing attaching the bottom to the boat, in the middle.

Fastener spacing/pitch across each frame contributes to torsional rigidity. Nothing is more important. Consider that the basic, standard dory design has a fastener every 4 or 6 inches across each frame, plus glue, if used, and torsional issues are not uncommon, especially after a few decades of use..

Personally, I would add two more stringers and make certain the stringers are attached to the frames as well as humanly possible.
thanks! I will prob add two. I just happened to have the 3 1x5's

I didnt realize that was the deal ....- I though it was generally advised NOT to use tight fastener schedule on the planking
to frames since it can accentuate hard spots and cause a kind of lateral perforation line. That the heavier fastener schedule should be on longitudinals and avoid the framing when possible? But stringers are obviously different....DO most PC dories have more than two fasteners per stringer/frame connection? The three stringer pictured have over 60 fasteners to the frames total.

Are most stringers thru-bolted to frames vs screwed? I noticed one such boat where frame rot seems to have been caused by these bolt holes. but it makes sense for strength.

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Old 12-17-2019, 08:48 PM   #41
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Good points. I assumed, maybe wrongly, that the since the jig in this case doesnt involve a mold (the frames go with the boat) that it would just be added work to mount, center, plumb and level and brace the frames when you could just drop frames into pre-cut plywood sides on the floor - and be done.?

That makes sense that the side was straight for cut-off reasons, its easier, a bit faster to build and works with sideboxes. (and not be argumentative) but the side height of a hunky when you are standing on a ply floor over the framing - is about 33 inches. its not bad at all, but obviously local builders made them deeper over time. Since i wanted a deeper boat, I thought it would be nice to give the boat some kind of modest curve to a high transom, ....maybe just a nod to the original dory form. I grew up in coastal Maine and Mass - so some shapes are right and others not right
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Old 12-17-2019, 11:07 PM   #42
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thanks! I will prob add two. I just happened to have the 3 1x5's

I didnt realize that was the deal ....- I though it was generally advised NOT to use tight fastener schedule on the planking
to frames since it can accentuate hard spots and cause a kind of lateral perforation line. That the heavier fastener schedule should be on longitudinals and avoid the framing when possible? But stringers are obviously different....DO most PC dories have more than two fasteners per stringer/frame connection? The three stringer pictured have a total of about 58 fasteners to the frames total.

Are most stringers thru-bolted to frames vs screwed? I noticed one such boat where frame rot seems to have been caused by these bolt holes. but it makes sense for strength.
Most PC dories have the bottom attached directly to the frames, no stringers. Hanneman was the only builder I'm aware of that used stringers.

Bolts cause more problems than they solve, with rare exceptions. I wouldn't use them there.

Vic got rid of the sheer clamp bolts way back, a great tweak. Very few to be found in evolved dories.

Re stringer to frame, Eric S may have some thoughts. Eric knows stuff.

It may be fine with typical inside the box solutions, glue and screws.

I tend to think outside "the box" on "belt and suspenders" type reinforcements, which often are needed when modifying engineered structures. A common solution, like adding a bolt, is not my favorite. It invites more of a cascade type failure, mostly coming into play after the primary, glue and screws failed. I would lean toward strengthening the primary, which can be tricky.

A number of fine gauge, skinny, bronze ringshank nails, would help, and even in failure would only yield slowly, resisting and splintering all the way. very resilient.

Flat, carbon fiber or S-Glass tows could be epoxied across the stringer and onto the frame, adding a useful belt to the primary bond. A small bottle of one of RAKA's high strength epoxies would help.

Six of the bottom frames in my TEXAN II project are not mechanically fastened to the bottom. bonded only. I can't see them failing. Each frame has a half inch of wood bonded to both side, making them 2" wide. High quality wood instead of the plywood doubler that has evolved in dories. Much stronger than ply and similar weight. Each of the new bottom frames had broken twice before.

If we can ensure that movement/working never begins, the boat has no expiration date. This is my opinion, and some traditional dorymen say that a wooden dory needs to flex. I see flex as relative movement/working between the parts of the hull, the beginning of the end. (But I'm a crazy old hermit who lives in a swamp.)
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Old 12-17-2019, 11:53 PM   #43
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thanks! I will prob add two. I just happened to have the 3 1x5's

I didnt realize that was the deal ....- I though it was generally advised NOT to use tight fastener schedule on the planking
to frames since it can accentuate hard spots and cause a kind of lateral perforation line. That the heavier fastener schedule should be on longitudinals and avoid the framing when possible? But stringers are obviously different....DO most PC dories have more than two fasteners per stringer/frame connection? The three stringer pictured have over 60 fasteners to the frames total.

Are most stringers thru-bolted to frames vs screwed? I noticed one such boat where frame rot seems to have been caused by these bolt holes. but it makes sense for strength.
A recent failure on a close friend's pristine PC Boatworks dory popped the plywood off of the frame far enough that he discovered it when his gas line hose got pinched between, killing the motor.

Nailed, no bonding, normal for most of dory history. Fasteners were si bronze ringshanks, in excellent condition. Some pulled from the frame, others pulled thru the mahogany plywood. They looked pretty close spaced, 5-6" I think.

With quality bonding most fasteners can be eliminated. The answer lays somewhere between.
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Old 12-18-2019, 11:21 AM   #44
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A recent failure on a close friend's pristine PC Boatworks dory popped the plywood off of the frame far enough that he discovered it when his gas line hose got pinched between, killing the motor.

Nailed, no bonding, normal for most of dory history. Fasteners were si bronze ringshanks, in excellent condition. Some pulled from the frame, others pulled thru the mahogany plywood. They looked pretty close spaced, 5-6" I think.

With quality bonding most fasteners can be eliminated. The answer lays somewhere between.
Why not stitch and glue?

I'd love to build a boat in my back yard, but here in SLC the extremes of weather are significant. I'd need to build a shelter first. Moderate V hull, like a Tolman, but with the sheer line similar to the NR O/S.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:34 PM   #45
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The thing that you can forget is that 1/2 in or 3/4 in plywood has only half the strength of solid wood for many applications. The hard part is finding the right solid wood to do the job at a reasonable cost and weight for the job.
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Old 12-19-2019, 04:49 PM   #46
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Planed, sanded, planed again, sanded again.....ready for plywood and the dreaded scarfing. But a lot less scarfing with 20' pieces (craigslist score! mentioned by Gettin Fishy). They were in the garage of a fisherman/builder who passed away - apparently they were circa 1960- or 70's. INcredible looking faces with very nice looking plys. Only one plug on one side of all four 20' pieces!

So I have make one scarf joint on each side (just 2ft short) and some small ones for the bottom. Although 20ft pieces cover the bottom with some to spare length-wise... one piece cannot cover the all of the bottom width, I have to piece some barrow scarfed 8 ft pieces on one side, then add the second piece of 3/8" and piece in the opposite side for strength)

Wish me luck.
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Old 12-19-2019, 06:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Why aren't those stringers notched into the frames? Seems like that would be stronger, and allow the bottom planks to be fastened to the stringers and the frames.
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Old 12-19-2019, 06:23 PM   #48
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Why not stitch and glue?

I'd love to build a boat in my back yard, but here in SLC the extremes of weather are significant. I'd need to build a shelter first. Moderate V hull, like a Tolman, but with the sheer line similar to the NR O/S.
Why not one of the Tolman variants? Many have been built with modified sheer lines. The Tolman builders have evolved the techniques and fiberglass work to address about any potential problem. The builder network and information sharing is priceless and free. This makes it very possible to build a boat with no expiration date the first time.

Nothing matches the Tolmans for efficiency and the builder network puts the boats in a class alone. How many home built boats are counted by the thousand?? With good reason......Most designs can be counted on fingers and toes.



I still plan to design a S&G dory if I live long enough, and I expect to be around another decade or two.

There is however, for a S&G PC dory, some new ground to break. Although a very few S&G dories have been built, how to deal with the flat expanse of the flat bottom of the standard dory remains unresolved.

The basic dory that has evolved and what people want is 20-22' long with a 5' to 6' wide bottom. The bottom needs to be extremely rigid torsionally, but keep thickness/depth to a minimum. The framed dory is 4"-4 1/2" deep leaving just enough side height for comfort with 36" sides.

Any open areas sealed or buried below a deck are not acceptable. A recipe for disaster by rot.

Stringers, per the Renn Tolman original flat bottom design, are unsuitable. Way too thick when fully decked for rigidity and open below deck.

The solution is a sandwich bottom, imho. Simple and not difficult, it has not been done that I'm aware of. A great, extremely stiff bottom could be only 3" thick total for a 5 1/2 ft wide bottom. 36" sides would allow a very secure 32"+ high sided deck area. Easy to modify to suit.

The boat is designed, but not yet built. The design would be perfect for a kit option for homebuilders

I'm seriously considering bumping the S&G dory to the front of the line behind the Texan, which will be out of the shop by spring, so next winter.

My plan is still to copy the shape of the Salem dory, which has the constant chord sides. To my eye they look right, can be strong and light, and the handling and payload capacity is legendary. The 22' x 5' Salem dories with the cabin was a great boat.
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Old 12-19-2019, 07:40 PM   #49
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Why aren't those stringers notched into the frames? Seems like that would be stronger, and allow the bottom planks to be fastened to the stringers and the frames.
Long story....
This is per the Glen-L plans and has some well thought out design behind it. In general bottom stringers cannot be truly mortised into the frame due to drainage. So the notch is more like an over-cut notch with a drainage gap on each side. So there is no benefit to rigidity by loosing bottom frame thickness/strength (where hydrodynamic forces are the highest). Glen-L solved this by running the side frame member 3/4 inch past the floor frame member - with a reverse bevel. then the frame joint is gusseted on both sides.

This way you attached your stringers to frame - but you retain the full dimensional strength of the floor frame member. It is my understanding that the floor frame members just forward of amidships do break in some boats and so builders started doing full-length gussets on the whole bottom frame member to boost strength.

Then frame strength is a concern..I have been told by many plywood builders that nailing ply to frames is generally not always benefit and should be avoided if a longitudinal is an option.A longitudinal will better distribute forces evenly on the frames and a tight schedule of fasteners on longitudinals can help rigidity. But fastening ply directly on a frame creates more of a "hard spot" and the perforation schedule can create a tear spot.

So since the bottom has the biggest forces working on it, I think the Glen-L version of the Hunky, to get the ply off the frames and only onto stringers, and chines etc would be a strength improvement....beyond the obvious drainage improvement.
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:15 PM   #50
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

The Glen-L design solves the Achilles Heel common to 90+% of wooden dories, Drainage.
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:12 PM   #51
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

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Long story....
This is per the Glen-L plans and has some well thought out design behind it. In general bottom frames cannot be truly mortised into the frame due to drainage. So the notch is more like an over-cut notch with a drainage gap on each side. So there is no benefit to rigidity by loosing bottom frame thickness/strength (where hydrodynamic forces are the highest). Glen-L solved this buy running the side frame member 3/4 inch past the floor frame member - with a reverse bevel. then the frame joint is gusseted on both sides.

This way you attached your stringers to frame - but you retain the full dimensional strength of the floor frame member. It is my understanding that the floor frame members just forward of amidships do break in some boats and so builders started doing full-length gussets on the whole bottom frame member to boost strength.

Then frame strength is a concern..I have been told by many plywood builders that nailing ply to frames is generally not always benefit and should be avoided if a longitudinal is an option.A longitudinal will better distribute forces evenly on the frames and a tight schedule of fasteners on longitudinals can help rigidity. But fastening ply directly on a frame creates more of a "hard spot" and the perforation schedule can create a tear spot.

So since the bottom has the biggest forces working on it, I think the Glen-L version of the Hunky, to get the ply off the frames and only onto stringers, and chines etc would be a strength improvement.
I'm assuming that the as designed exterior bottom boards went directly over the inside stringers, sandwiching the bottom ply? That would enhance rigidity, no doubt. When it was designed I don't think axial fiberglass was available

Using heavy biax at 45/45 on the bottom should make up any torsional stiffness lost by eliminating the exterior boards. Triax is also wortb considering, giving the additional longitudinal layer of unidirectional fiberglass. The two layer bottom will help as well.

I always try to keep an eye on RAKA for their overstock and special bargain deals. What is available changes often and remarkable deals are common. Checking weekly is worth considering if you still need fiberglass. I need to get back in the habit.

RAKA also has epoxy options not available elsewhere. Their cold weather hardener can be very useful. Not the best for wetting out major layups, but great for smaller work and anything structural. Their cold weather hardener makes a stronger epoxy.

Their non blush 350 hardener is a bit more expensive and worth every penny. It is simply the best stuff I've used for laminating. It will spoil you.
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:58 PM   #52
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

Also consider getting your additives, Phenolic micro, silica, glass bubbles, and wood flour, the stuff you use every day, in most mixes, and the milled glass, chopped glass and graphite powder, used less often but important, at RAKA. Fworks doubles to triples the price and has a minimal selection .
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:35 AM   #53
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

z
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The Glen-L design solves the Achilles Heel common to 90+% of wooden dories, Drainage.
As Joe has already mentioned, the older Hannaman dories had a similar bottom framing design. Very stiff and great drainage. Even with subpar fasteners and glue, the Hannaman dories stood the test of time.......at least mine did.
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Old 12-20-2019, 08:58 AM   #54
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Also consider getting your additives, Phenolic micro, silica, glass bubbles, and wood flour, the stuff you use every day, in most mixes, and the milled glass, chopped glass and graphite powder, used less often but important, at RAKA. Fworks doubles to triples the price and has a minimal selection .
Thanks, yes I have a good selection of fillers on hand. I found the RAKA pricing to be the same at Duckworks ($318 for the non-blush 6 gallon kit)...and Duckworks was pretty comparable for some other stuff like fillers, i ordered from them since they also had a nice selection of fasteners. I checked out RAKA's glass and ended up buying from Thayercraft. They were definitely cheaper and had a much bigger selection - it seemed like a good find! And dang - does the owner know his fiberglass! https://thayercraft.com/
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:22 AM   #55
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

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My plan is still to copy the shape of the Salem dory, which has the constant chord sides. To my eye they look right, can be strong and light, and the handling and payload capacity is legendary. The 22' x 5' Salem dories with the cabin was a great boat.
I owned two 'Salem Boat Specialties' Dories. A brand new 1964, and later, a used 1967. I tried my best to talk Dick Yates out of the plans, but for some reason, he would not let his design continue?! With all of the new materials and technology, this design would be a dandy.
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:45 AM   #56
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HI All,

I'm embarking on a build of a 22' ft PC Dory - and thought some of you might be interested - especially if you are thinking about doing a build some day. This design is from the Glen-L Hunky Dory plans that you can find here. If you are not familiar - Glen-L has a pretty large selection of boat designs....some are a bit dated, but they happen to have a sea dory design that is about as close to the real PC Dory style of construction and hull lines of any easily available plans out there.

Sides are 30 degree angle, transom mounted engine version has a 15 degree transom

Anyway, the frames are made out of reclaimed D-fir....very tight grained, clear, dry stuff, but was a pain to mill to specs.

Planking will be Oregon-made D-fir marine ply. Getting 3/8 marine D-fir ply was a pain! Mr. Plyood and other local places could only get 1/2 and 3/4. Most places I called are no longer able to source Roseburg's full line of marine plywood.

Epoxy is Raka from Duckworks - pretty good quality for a good price. Fiberglass is from Thayercraft

Some key changes are needed to make the boat more like a Learned-style boat for example:

1. the Hunky comes with options for well-mounted engine and a transom mount...but in both options - the transom is very low; flush with the sides. So raising the transom height and splashwell seemed sensible.

2. The sides and bow were raised slightly - just to make it a bit deeper.

3. The outside bottom strakes are removed to make beaching possible, but the bottom will have two layers of 3/8 ply vs. one layer of 1/2" listed in the plans. not to mention some heavier glass on the sole

4. the inside will be oiled not epoxied or painted.

5. oh also i laminated plywood to both sides of the bottom piece of most frames - to shore up the strength of the centerline where pounding forces are exerting the most pressure on the boat.

Right now I have the bowstem and transom on - and all frames are plumb and level and locked down. Next i have to mark and cut notches for chines and outer sheerclamps - then will be ready for plywood.

Here are a few pics - ill try to keep them coming.
marine Fir Plywood... really? Why not true Marine Grade (Mahogany) 3/8" has seven layers of plywood. Mr. Plywood in SE Portland stocks it!
What the H... it's your build... best of luck!
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:08 AM   #57
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Well that is f...... rude!

Montucky THANK YOU for showing how you are doing this and taking us along on you boat build. Really cool to see the progress!

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What the H... it's your build... best of luck!
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:11 AM   #58
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marine Fir Plywood... really? Why not true Marine Grade (Mahogany) 3/8" has seven layers of plywood. Mr. Plywood in SE Portland stocks it!
What the H... it's your build... best of luck!
Hey bud - im doing my homework on this build and am going to shut this thread down if it turns into a keyboard advisory board

1) This is true marine grade ply, and 2) using fir ply is recommended in the plans; 3) fir is what almost all dories are planked with, 4) Terry Learned himself uses high quality fir ply for reason beyond just cost. My understanding is that good marine fir stuff is a bit more flexible in hard compression-type shocks one might get in surf, where the stiffer, hardwood plys are slightly more vulnerable to cracking . The price difference is a lot, and 4) i am supporting an Oregon mill. in this case I have 14 sheets of the Roseburg mill's 3/8 panels but lucked out on these 20' oldies. THey are incredible.

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Old 12-20-2019, 12:40 PM   #59
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

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Hey bud - im doing my homework on this build and am going to shut this thread down if it turns into a keyboard advisory board

1) This is true marine grade ply, and 2) using fir ply is recommended in the plans; 3) fir is what almost all dories are planked with, 4) Terry Learned himself uses high quality fir ply for reason beyond just cost. My understanding is that good marine fir stuff is a bit more flexible in hard compression-type shocks one might get in surf, where the stiffer, hardwood plys are slightly more vulnerable to cracking . The price difference is a lot, and 4) i am supporting an Oregon mill. in this case I have 14 sheets of the Roseburg mill's 3/8 panels but lucked out on these 20' oldies. THey are incredible.

*Mic drop*

Montucky - Don't be deterred by the haters (the internet is full of them). Thanks so much for taking us along! I'm not a dory guy myself, but builds like these are inspiring and are (BY FAR!) the best content on ifish. Keep it up!
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:10 PM   #60
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Default Re: PC Dory Build Glen-L Hunky Dory Design

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Hey bud - im doing my homework on this build and am going to shut this thread down if it turns into a keyboard advisory board

1) This is true marine grade ply, and 2) using fir ply is recommended in the plans; 3) fir is what almost all dories are planked with, 4) Terry Learned himself uses high quality fir ply for reason beyond just cost. My understanding is that good marine fir stuff is a bit more flexible in hard compression-type shocks one might get in surf, where the stiffer, hardwood plys are slightly more vulnerable to cracking . The price difference is a lot, and 4) i am supporting an Oregon mill. in this case I have 14 sheets of the Roseburg mill's 3/8 panels but lucked out on these 20' oldies. THey are incredible.
So... it's your build. Do as you please. I just don't understand why someone would spend all the time & effort to build a dory, or boat, and use a product that will give you a half life; and not as stable or durable. Yes... it's a few dollars more, but you'll get a dozen years out of it... Probley more!
Not micro managing... sorry if you are offended... IT IS YOUR BUILD!
I noticed that others have noticed that you stringers were not dado in the frames...? All this does, is adds structural integrity to the frame work.
Again... it's your BUILD....?
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