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Old 10-09-2019, 03:07 PM   #1
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Default WHY I left Oregon (Long Read)

I have not been on here for MANY years, and only came to look at a couple deer posts I was told to check out.

I live(d) in Oregon my entire life, minus a few years in Louisiana for a start to my career many years ago. I was a typical kid, and did the typical things that a Eastern Oregon boy would do....hunting, fishing, dirt bikes, dabbled in trapping, ect. My dad introduced me to the outdoors before I can even remember, and we enjoyed many outdoor adventures with my family and friends.

Our years were pretty much scheduled out, outdoors wise, by the seasons of fish runs, deer/elk seasons, mushroom picking and firewood season....and we looked forward to ALL of it (firewood, not so much as a kid). The Smelt runs, The Morels, the Spring Chinook, Sturgeon, High mountain trout fishing, Catfish, Shad, Steelhead, Deer, Elk, Pheasant, Goose and Duck, and also the annual Iilwaco/Garibaldi trip.....It was pretty much year round outdoors.

This all was the norm for most of my youth.

But things started to change, Things other than a poor run here or there, or a "bad winter". Or poachers.

My first memory of a major change was when we went to hunt the large ranch up Butter Creek that we had hunted since I can remember. That year my uncle made the same phone call he had made a million times, making the small talk and then asking for the permission he already knew he had. But this time was different, This time he was informed that "the boy" had taken over the ranch....and in doing so had decided that a "lease" to a group of guys from Portland was a good idea....I believe his words were "it's like $500 bills just falling out of the sky". So we were now out, and soon we found ourselves with the masses on the public ground, which did not appeal to my dad and uncle...and they soon quit deer hunting because of the crowded public ground. Soon after this, the decline of the Mule deer population started, Some said it was poor habitat, some said it was a bad Winter, other said "Blue tongue", and later on, the predator issue came up.....everyone had their own opinion. But Mule Deer will never be what they once were...With the current management, the current seasons, the current Tribal rules, Ranching practices and the current Predator issues. THIS is a reason I left Oregon

The next thing I started to notice was the permission granted by land owners was falling dramatically. "Back in the day" you pretty much knew who was gonna give you permission, and who was not....I'm sure everyone on here has a famous "person" where they were from that WOULD NOT let you hunt (game farms we called them), but for the most part, a door knock, maybe some bucking bales, or fencing and you were in. It started to change, and not for the best. I started to run into the "pay to play" mentality, most likely brought by the guys out East (which I found out was very common). And to be honest, I could not afford to pay some guy a $100, and really didn't think it was a good idea anyways. Prior to this, I had places that would let me on with the understanding that you shoot the deer in the fields, the ones "damaging" the Alfalfa...."I'm in the cow raising business son, not the deer raising business, bring some friends" is what I was told a few times....and some didn't mind if you had tags...if you know what I'm saying. You now have people who ACTUALLY PAY to shoot sage rats!!! What do they say about a fool and his money... Some state that they are just doing what they like and if YOU don't like it, then maybe YOU should pay...well, what are THEY going to do when THEY get outbid....THIS is why I left Oregon

And then came the "damage control" hunts. I actually participated in these. I did the whole Master Hunter thing, and in the beginning it was a great deal. The rancher/farmer who had actually put some effort into keeping his crops protected would have ODFW pick from a "list" of people who were available to remove some of the problem animals and in part, keep the rest out of the fields by the hazing basically. Hunters got some meat, the farmer got the problem taken care of, for the most part.....but then THIS also changed. The tags were no longer issued through the ODFW, they were handed directly to the land owner (too may "buddy" handshakes in closed door meetings)....and the land owner was at discretion to do "what he pleased" with them. AND yes, the money game started with this aspect of the wildlife as well....suddenly there was a huge uptick in "damage" to crops, the ODFW Bios who would be investigated this damage would hand tags out for the animals simply "walking through and mudding up" a field. The protection of the fields were not required (to realistic standards) and plastic fencing that ODFW provided was a ridiculous offer at best. Now the unlimited amount of "damage" tags and the way they are handed out and handled has caused a major disruption to the animals who winter in the areas where these ranches are being grown and expanded.....the notion of the hazing to "keep them pushed up in the timber" is a dim witted idea...there is no feed there. All for the mighty dollar, but if you ask the rancher it's to "recoup" some losses. Protect your crops, do your job. THIS is why I left Oregon

One sore subject that may upset people is the "youth" hunts, or the "disabled" hunts. I do know that they have curbed the disabled requirements and the animals they can take...but still allowing disabled hunters to participate. I understand the thought process of the youth programs, my sons have actually participated in a couple,( although I limited my boys to the youth hunts that only removed animals on a certain "tree farm" in the Irrigon area). There is no reason, or need to have a youth hunt on large wintering bucks in Southern Oregon...except to generate the revenue that is gained my over compensating fathers points building to hunt this...not to be condescending, but this not only puts a strain on Wintering animals, but also put unrealistic views i their kids heads. You WILL NOT kill bucks like this every year (unless you pay or have rare private property) and in the end, most will become disenchanted with the idea of a "regular" season and average at best results. I like the idea of the last weekend for youth on Western Oregon...my boys also participated in this. This part is my personal opinion, but the Wintering deer need to be left alone. And do you really think killing pregnant cows in the summer is good management? I also put this behavior on adults too...with the ridiculous cow hunts that take place....cow/bull ratios created by Bios that are ridiculous are only made to look as if they are properly maintaining a healthy herd balance, which is not the case. THIS is why I left Oregon

And then the Tribal hunting and new technology fad. Tribal hunters have existed for decades, they were there when I was a kid, and they hunted as they were allowed....we had one that camped next to us every year in our Elk camp. I fully support the idea that a tribal member should be able to hunt and harvest an animal for themselves and family. I also fully support the idea that they have that right to do so on the reservation, and use any means they feel appropriate. What I do not agree with is the move onto the forest service lands, and the basic "unlimited" killing that they are doing. With new technology, as well as social media, the ability to kill, and the notoriety that comes with that by posting online has driven the desire to kill every big bull and buck that is found....and then substantially posted on the forums to prove how "great" this hunter is, when in fact it was most likely shot out of a vehicle, or on off limits ground to other persons. Past tribes did not have rifles that could shoot 1000 yards, did not have unlimited visibility with spotting scopes, have range finders good to link to your scope....or spot lights. they took what was necessary and what was given to them...not every trophy ram in the area (I'm referring to the Idaho incident). This hunting practice is unsustainable and needs to be changed NOW. THIS is why I left Oregon

SO now here we are, people waiting 20 plus years to hunt a unit that is average at best compared to some other states that are OTC...people accepting this as the new "norm". If a family of 4 wants to hunt together, and bought the Sports Pac, and then draws...you will be spending over $500 just to try and get in the game. And what "game" is that", most likely hunting poorly managed units, with some 3000 hunters in some hunt units?? All you need to do is read the responses to many of the threads posted here....I do understand that hunting hard is where you earn the reward, and hunting isn't always about the kill, but getting the "opportunity" to hunt is not the same as hunting. This way of running the management of Oregon's wildlife can not continue on like this....because it is easy to see that it is not working. Something needs to change, and I only touched on a few subjects. There are the ones who will defend what ODFW is doing until the last animal is gone, stating that they "did their best", and I can tell you that they have NOT. I have PERSONALLY witnessed things that were absurd, the waste of fish smolts in particular that made me quit volunteering (and for the fan boys, YES I actually participated). THIS is why I left Oregon

So, I now live in a place that has a small population of people in comparison to land, Where the people actually take what they need and use, there is no "youth" hunts, because the youths go right along with the family and are hunting along side, where I can hunt year round...with no tags (a small hint). Although the species are not the same as Oregon, I enjoy myself...I don't have to worry about a "draw" because there is none...everyone hunts/fishes/gathers and is cool with each other....THIS is why I left Oregon

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Old 10-09-2019, 03:24 PM   #2
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Sounds like you found your Shangri-La


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Old 10-09-2019, 03:30 PM   #3
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I want to live in a place like that. It definitely isn't here.

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Old 10-09-2019, 03:32 PM   #4
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How is the weather in New Zealand this time of year?
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:35 PM   #5
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Mexico?
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:00 PM   #6
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Yes, welcome to New Zealand. Can you eat the boar? I heard not because of 1080.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:05 PM   #7
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Soooo.... you couldn’t hunt your good old boy, private land honey holes anymore and had to hunt public land like the rest of us commoners and that made you leave?
Children and people with disabilities get a little bit of an advantage and that made you leave?

Sounds like you like things handed to you on a silver platter.


Bye
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SImudBogger View Post
Soooo.... you couldn’t hunt your good old boy, private land honey holes anymore and had to hunt public land like the rest of us commoners and that made you leave?
Children and people with disabilities get a little bit of an advantage and that made you leave?

Sounds like you like things handed to you on a silver platter.


Bye

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Old 10-09-2019, 04:45 PM   #9
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Soooo.... you couldn’t hunt your good old boy, private land honey holes anymore and had to hunt public land like the rest of us commoners and that made you leave?

Children and people with disabilities get a little bit of an advantage and that made you leave?



Sounds like you like things handed to you on a silver platter.





Bye
Deer numbers and fishing opportunities are through the roof currently?

Oregon public is in the toilet. We're leaving as well, but the politics are driving us out.. no first grader needs to learn about gender dysphoria at school by state law.

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Old 10-09-2019, 04:46 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by SImudBogger View Post
Soooo.... you couldn’t hunt your good old boy, private land honey holes anymore and had to hunt public land like the rest of us commoners and that made you leave?
Children and people with disabilities get a little bit of an advantage and that made you leave?

Sounds like you like things handed to you on a silver platter.


Bye


Now that's a bait.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:09 PM   #11
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Tell California how great your place is.


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Old 10-09-2019, 05:13 PM   #12
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Deer numbers and fishing opportunities are through the roof currently?

Oregon public is in the toilet. We're leaving as well, but the politics are driving us out.. no first grader needs to learn about gender dysphoria at school by state law.

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I agree with you on all of that. I agree with him on tribal hunting being out of control.

I just have a hard time having any type of sympathy for someone who’s first two gripes are about losing his private land access and giving kids and disabled folks a slight edge.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:16 PM   #13
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I agree with him, giving youth an easy hunt and then jerking the rug out from under them is short sighted. Harvesting mature bucks on the breeding grounds is partly of what got us to where we are at. We keep fooling ourselves that it is only a few.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:35 PM   #14
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I agree with you on all of that. I agree with him on tribal hunting being out of control.



I just have a hard time having any type of sympathy for someone who’s first two gripes are about losing his private land access and giving kids and disabled folks a slight edge.
I understand his frustration, the general public ruined private opportunities..

I like youth hunts and disability hunts, but our populations can't handle too much more pressure. I don't know the answer, hence why we're leaving my home state of 20 years for greener pastures.

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Old 10-09-2019, 06:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SImudBogger View Post
Soooo.... you couldn’t hunt your good old boy, private land honey holes anymore and had to hunt public land like the rest of us commoners and that made you leave?
Children and people with disabilities get a little bit of an advantage and that made you leave?

Sounds like you like things handed to you on a silver platter.


Bye
Not necessarily.
I remember a pickup or two being repaired for nothing. And a farmhouse and a barn re-roofed by volunteer friends, a couple of which just happened to be by folks with kids in the roofing business.
And a radio being repaired, and a farmer's wife getting a flat tire changed because her hubby was busy in the fields on a tractor.
I ride or two to school in the kiddie carpool on those really cold or snowy mornings.


'Cuz that's the way things were done

And not once did I EVER see a silver platter.
Not a single time.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:46 PM   #16
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Default WHY I left Oregon (Long Read)

On second though. Never mind.

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Old 10-09-2019, 06:54 PM   #17
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Not necessarily.
I remember a pickup or two being repaired for nothing. And a farmhouse and a barn re-roofed by volunteer friends, a couple of which just happened to be by folks with kids in the roofing business.
And a radio being repaired, and a farmer's wife getting a flat tire changed because her hubby was busy in the fields on a tractor.
I ride or two to school in the kiddie carpool on those really cold or snowy mornings.


'Cuz that's the way things were done

And not once did I EVER see a silver platter.
Not a single time.


My best friend and myself moved irrigation pipe and bucked hay during the summer months for a certain farmer because he had timberland and it backed up to a nice chunk of landlocked BLM land. We were offered more money from other farmers but we had our reasons to stay loyal to this family.

Even after 30 plus years I can still go up and knock on their door and gain access to their land.


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Old 10-09-2019, 07:18 PM   #18
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Short story. I'm still here. Because it's home.
Sonova native born Orygunion.
All my g-parents and immediate fambly are planted here.
I'm oldest in the immediate fambly now for 4 years.
Guess I'm next.
Feed me to the fishy's when the time comes.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:24 PM   #19
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I'm still here cause I'm married. If I were single, I'd be in Montana (or somewhere) so quick I'd not leave a shadow.



Good for you Fishin'. We agree on many of your issues.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:38 PM   #20
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Oregon is home. The fact that guys who own private land have figured out they can cash in by having out of towners hunt instead of nice local kids isn’t an Oregon thing. More variety here than almost anywhere. Lots of elk on the coast, great trout fishing, salmon at times to catch. Sure a guy can move to Wyoming or Alaska to get away from people but landowners in those places want to make a buck just the same.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:49 PM   #21
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I left Illinois years ago because there were no public lands, and the few areas that weren't private were littered with diapers, beer cans and tires. Folks asked me, "...there's some monster whitetail out there?" Good luck hunting them if you don't have family land or can't afford a high end lease. Almost nobody allowed access if you weren't family.

To me Oregon and Washington both have their share of problems, but it's better than many places. I think the special tags for youth, disabled and Hunters 65 and over are a good thing...and I doubt those folks are putting much of a dent in herd. Not as much as some of the serial poachers out there.

And how many of you good folks would let people hunt on your private land if you had it?...without financial gain.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:55 PM   #22
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Take me back to Appalachia, please.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:28 PM   #23
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There is another elephant in the room that will get this thread shut down and we all know what that is. You can't start with low populations and then allow essentially unregulated harvest (slaughter) of big bucks on their wintering grounds during the breeding season and expect populations to increase. Throw in poor managment, tons of predators, and allowing boneheads to vote on issues that effect fish and Wildlife populations and it's no surprise we have arrived at this point.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:30 PM   #24
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People being critical of the private land aspect have most likely never lived in rural Oregon or rural anywhere. There used to be, and still is in extremely limited quantity, access to hunting granted on good neighbors and shared chores. That has changed and I will admit to resorting to paying for access often times. However I recently obtained private access for my kid by offering to help with yearly chores for no fee.
I relate to this post and it's main points are quite legitimate.
I'm probably more optimistic on the future, but possibly to a fault.
I love Oregon, but if it were not for family and friends that are impossible to leave, I would move immediately for better hunting...be it fur or feathers...
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:49 PM   #25
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yes there is better hunting in many other states. although each of those have their drawbacks as well. life is more than just hunting and what you can kill. and life is short so everyone should live where they want to be.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:24 AM   #26
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There is another elephant in the room that will get this thread shut down and we all know what that is. You can't start with low populations and then allow essentially unregulated harvest (slaughter) of big bucks on their wintering grounds during the breeding season and expect populations to increase. Throw in poor managment, tons of predators, and allowing boneheads to vote on issues that effect fish and Wildlife populations and it's no surprise we have arrived at this point.


Winner winner chicken dinner. Everyone points to ODFW’s management of wildlife as the sole reason, it’s more complex than that.

As hunters we even share in the blame. The OP even admits “bring some friends... some didn’t mind that you didn’t always have a tag...if you know what I mean” in their post and then goes on to lament Oregon hunting and access.


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Old 10-10-2019, 06:35 AM   #27
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I can't see ever leaving Oregon. It has taken most of my 50+ years but I understand the ground rules here. I'm too old to start over from zero knowledge and build up again. If you are willing to make the effort, there is still much amazing hunting and fishing to be found here. It could get screwed up but it hasn't happened yet.

I think the big enemy is publicity. Too many people having too much access to too much info without having to do the work to learn for themselves. Sharing info sells videos and sells magazine ads. It sells out the thing that was special ruining it long term for short term gain.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:00 AM   #28
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Oregon is a beautiful place with many great hunting and fishing opportunities.

The world changes and if you are butt hurt about that, then you made the right choice. Leave.

I don't know how old the OP is but Oregons population was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 million in 1950. It's now almost 4 million. There is your problem. That's it. There is nothing else.

Every single major world problem is because of overpopulation. There is your elephant. If you don't think human population is the issue, you've got your head in the ground.

OP left Oregon because things change and he didn't like it. Until we admit that we, as a species, need to slow down our reproduction, this will continue to happen . . . everywhere.

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Old 10-10-2019, 08:12 AM   #29
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yes there is better hunting in many other states. although each of those have their drawbacks as well. life is more than just hunting and what you can kill. and life is short so everyone should live where they want to be.

In Oregon have found a wonderfully diversified market with a perfect location for servicing the large economic hubs up and down the west coast. I have also found a place to hunt with a bow on public land in which I see elk almost every day I hunt. The bass fishing is off the hook in my front yard and I have some desert high lakes that I visit with my fly rod that still pump out monster fish. The great thing about living in Oregon is having the ability to make lots of $ so you can leave and go on exotic trips then come home and start the process over again. When you mentioned not being able to hunt private land that got me thinking about making some extra $ and getting me some of my own private land on the outskirts of town where the real monster bucks lurk..
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:26 AM   #30
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Oregon is a beautiful place with many great hunting and fishing opportunities.

The world changes and if you are butt hurt about that, then you made the right choice. Leave.

I don't know how old the OP is but Oregons population was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 million in 1950. It's now almost 4 million. There is your problem. That's it. There is nothing else.

Every single major world problem is because of overpopulation. There is your elephant. If you don't think human population is the issue, you've got your head in the ground.

OP left Oregon because things change and he didn't like it. Until we admit that we, as a species, need to slow down our reproduction, this will continue to happen . . . everywhere.

Chass

Ding, Ding Ding...!!! We have a winner.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:40 AM   #31
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It's a sad thing to say, but most of his points are very valid. I am not planning on leaving anytime soon because the positives outweigh the negatives for me, but in my opinion ODFW manages for money now instead of for wildlife. I would gladly give up hunting for a few years in order to help recover some of the damage done, but I have a feeling that very few in Oregon would do the same.

Another factor that I think many overlook is that the economy is really good right now, which means more people have expendable income to hunt and fish and travel, meaning more pressure on the wildlife than during harder economic times.

And lastly, I love to watch the YouTube shows as much as the next guy, and the Born and Raised crew have done many great things, but the amount of people that have been attracted to hunting, archery elk hunting specifically, has helped to erode the experience for many people. I admire the fact the Born and Raised, Elk101, the Hushin crew, etc., have helped to get many people interested in hunting and the outdoors, but there is a point where the pressure outweighs the benefits. The last two years, the number of guys I have heard driving around and bugling from the roads has become almost laughable. Drive 1/2 mile and bugle, rinse and repeat, seems to be the mantra for a lot of new hunters. I guess they see the success that some of these YouTube shows portray and think that it comes that easy.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:18 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chass View Post
Oregon is a beautiful place with many great hunting and fishing opportunities.

The world changes and if you are butt hurt about that, then you made the right choice. Leave.

I don't know how old the OP is but Oregons population was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 million in 1950. It's now almost 4 million. There is your problem. That's it. There is nothing else.

Every single major world problem is because of overpopulation. There is your elephant. If you don't think human population is the issue, you've got your head in the ground.

OP left Oregon because things change and he didn't like it. Until we admit that we, as a species, need to slow down our reproduction, this will continue to happen . . . everywhere.

Chass
I agree with this person's overpopulation opinion 100%. This goes way beyond the intended thread topic, but the world is becoming heavily overpopulated, and destroyed by it. Eventually, Mother Earth will need to cleanse itself and getting rid of 95% of the human population is what's needed to rebuild what we as a species have devastated. Scary to think but it's going to happen.

Now back to Oregon's hunting issues....
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:19 AM   #33
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I still love Oregon, but I'm glad you found happiness. To each his own.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:10 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by dcopher View Post
It's a sad thing to say, but most of his points are very valid. I am not planning on leaving anytime soon because the positives outweigh the negatives for me, but in my opinion ODFW manages for money now instead of for wildlife. I would gladly give up hunting for a few years in order to help recover some of the damage done, but I have a feeling that very few in Oregon would do the same.

Another factor that I think many overlook is that the economy is really good right now, which means more people have expendable income to hunt and fish and travel, meaning more pressure on the wildlife than during harder economic times.

And lastly, I love to watch the YouTube shows as much as the next guy, and the Born and Raised crew have done many great things, but the amount of people that have been attracted to hunting, archery elk hunting specifically, has helped to erode the experience for many people. I admire the fact the Born and Raised, Elk101, the Hushin crew, etc., have helped to get many people interested in hunting and the outdoors, but there is a point where the pressure outweighs the benefits. The last two years, the number of guys I have heard driving around and bugling from the roads has become almost laughable. Drive 1/2 mile and bugle, rinse and repeat, seems to be the mantra for a lot of new hunters. I guess they see the success that some of these YouTube shows portray and think that it comes that easy.


I’m going to play devils advocate here.

Instead of “in my opinion ODFW manages for money now instead of for wildlife”

You could try... ODFW continues to offer more and more tag opportunities because hunters can’t decide if they want better herd health or the ability to hunt every year.

Instead of “I love to watch YouTube videos... but the amount of people that have been attracted to hunting, archery elk hunting specifically, has helped erode the experience for many people”.

You could try... I like viewing all of the free online hunting content that the above mentioned groups provide, and I understand that a caveat of getting that free content is the amount of people that will become interested in what those groups are doing.


Do you see what I’m doing? Hunters seem to lack accountability when it comes to our own decisions playing a role in the condition of wildlife in Oregon. We don’t have to shoot spikes, we don’t have to shoot does, or late season cows, or hunt areas where herds are under management objectives. The fact is that a group of people choose to hunt these tags. Hunters can’t even agree on the right approach for deer and elk in Oregon -some say give units a break while others say kill every predator on the landscape- imagine being ODFW and trying to figure out how to make hunters happy and manage wildlife.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:21 AM   #35
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I’m going to play devils advocate here.

Instead of “in my opinion ODFW manages for money now instead of for wildlife”

.
They can't even do that right. They "lost" millions of Columbia River endorsement money.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:22 AM   #36
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While I agree most states have gone this route. Some of it in part is the movement against guns and hunting in general.

I remember growing up in Colorado. My dad used to know the land owners and they would allow us to hunt on the farms and ranches. The rule was to stay off the fields, we could walk but better not drive on them. Then we started hunting up north a ways. There was a rancher who moved to California but would come back for the fall and reminiscence of growing up on the ranch. His payment was come out for a few weekends and build blinds for him and his friends that where to old to walk the trails.

We did that for years. The guy was great, friendly and more often cooked and ate dinner with us. We camped out side of his single wide trailer and he allowed us use of the ATVs and his barn to hang the animals in. That was some of the best Mule deer I have ever had. Then he got sick, started staying in California more and more. One year he called my dad up and asked him to build the blinds and where to get the hay from. We went out and built the blinds in the spots he wanted. His son the next day tore them down. That was the last year we where allowed to hunt.

His son took over the land and started charging 500 a gun. There was no way we could pay that and his dad couldn't do anything about it. His son leased the land to an outfitter for Mule hunts.

Another reason the populations suffer is the Buck only policy. I have always hunted for meat and only really hunted Does. One buck to 14 does was average in Colorado. If everyone is shooting bucks then the Does go without a mate for the year and the population can tumble. My wife got her first deer outside of Grand Junction. Probably the last year we will get to hunt deer due to cost. An out of state tag is now 400 dollars...I can buy an yearling elk for 500 there.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:09 AM   #37
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You could try... ODFW continues to offer more and more tag opportunities because hunters can’t decide if they want better herd health or the ability to hunt every year.
Hunters rifle hunting 137 (the Ochoco meat hunt):
In 2003 the number was 4484
In 2008 the number was 2853
In 2013 the number was 2603
In 2018 the number was 2154

Hunters rifle hunting 148 (Heppner):
In 2003 the number was 3295
In 2008 the number was 2600
In 2013 the number was 2884
In 2018 the number was 2744

Hunters rifle hunting 177 (Fort Rock):
In 2003 the number was 3530
In 2008 the number was 2956
In 2013 the number was 2603
In 2018 the number was 2166

All trending downward over the 15 year period and combined 4245 hunters not hunting those units anymore on a yearly basis.

One can argue that those tag numbers aren't low enough in those units.

But they have been lowered over time and rifle hunter displacement has occurred.

It should surprise noone why OTC archery tags have become so popular over the years; lots of people (resident and non-resident) want to hunt mule deer every year they are on planet earth.


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Old 10-10-2019, 11:24 AM   #38
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Somehow these stats never seem to correlate to what the hunters are seeing in the field on their hunts. There seems to be a perception that there are more hunters than ever before and there is no room to hunt in these units.

Can someone get to the bottom of this please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by loper View Post
Hunters rifle hunting 137 (the Ochoco meat hunt):
In 2003 the number was 4484
In 2008 the number was 2853
In 2013 the number was 2603
In 2018 the number was 2154

Hunters rifle hunting 148 (Heppner):
In 2003 the number was 3295
In 2008 the number was 2600
In 2013 the number was 2884
In 2018 the number was 2744

Hunters rifle hunting 177 (Fort Rock):
In 2003 the number was 3530
In 2008 the number was 2956
In 2013 the number was 2603
In 2018 the number was 2166

All trending downward over the 15 year period and combined 4245 hunters not hunting those units anymore on a yearly basis.

One can argue that those tag numbers aren't low enough in those units.

But they have been lowered over time and rifle hunter displacement has occurred.

It should surprise noone why OTC archery tags have become so popular over the years; lots of people (resident and non-resident) want to hunt mule deer every year they are on planet earth.


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Old 10-10-2019, 12:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: WHY I left Oregon (Long Read)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loper View Post
Hunters rifle hunting 137 (the Ochoco meat hunt):
In 2003 the number was 4484
In 2008 the number was 2853
In 2013 the number was 2603
In 2018 the number was 2154

Hunters rifle hunting 148 (Heppner):
In 2003 the number was 3295
In 2008 the number was 2600
In 2013 the number was 2884
In 2018 the number was 2744

Hunters rifle hunting 177 (Fort Rock):
In 2003 the number was 3530
In 2008 the number was 2956
In 2013 the number was 2603
In 2018 the number was 2166

All trending downward over the 15 year period and combined 4245 hunters not hunting those units anymore on a yearly basis.

One can argue that those tag numbers aren't low enough in those units.

But they have been lowered over time and rifle hunter displacement has occurred.

It should surprise noone why OTC archery tags have become so popular over the years; lots of people (resident and non-resident) want to hunt mule deer every year they are on planet earth.




In those units, yes. I realize that with the simplification initiative that hunts are being canceled (certain 600 series and others). I was speaking in reference to the hunt opportunities Oregon provides to hunters every year. Doe, cow, bull/buck hunts, OTC, early season, late season, etc. people have the opportunity to hunt in Oregon (deer and elk) from August until March.

My comment was in response to hunters complaint about herd health but not wanting to make some of the necessary sacrifice that may assist in their recovery.


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Old 10-10-2019, 12:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by JacobOutdoors View Post
My comment was in response to hunters complaint about herd health but not wanting to make some of the necessary sacrifice that may assist in their recovery.
It is why it would have been nice for questions regarding their top hunting priority to have been couched with deer numbers in mind; perhaps opportunity would still have come out #1 but we won't know this time around because that question wasn't asked in the survey.

It's unfortunate that the survey information as presented by Mark Duda of Responsive Management isn't on the video; he indirectly insulted all of us who give input by stating to the commission that the collective "we" who give input "aren't your average hunters" and aren't representative of the agency's customers as a whole.

Then again; he's from Virginia. May a hurricane find his place of residence.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:46 PM   #41
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"necessary sacrifice." Like hunting from "August till March."
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: WHY I left Oregon (Long Read)

OP - wish we had a like button on here for your post...
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:59 PM   #43
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politics are driving us out.. no first grader needs to learn about gender dysphoria at school by state law.
This [email protected] is far worse than animal populations decreasing...crazy world we live in. My wife homeschools at this point...much because of this stuff.

Last edited by in 'em; 10-10-2019 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:15 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by fishin' is livin' View Post

There is no reason, or need to have a youth hunt on large wintering bucks in Southern Oregon...except to generate the revenue that is gained my over compensating fathers points building to hunt this...not to be condescending, but this not only puts a strain on Wintering animals, but also put unrealistic views i their kids heads. You WILL NOT kill bucks like this every year (unless you pay or have rare private property) and in the end, most will become disenchanted with the idea of a "regular" season and average at best results.
Lots of valid (and depressing) points you make.

I mostly don't agree with your take on youth hunts. One scenario where I would agree is if it is the kids first hunt and the father hadn't bothered to take them hunting until they are 16-17 and have a trophy tag. For us it is something my daughter has progressed towards and will absolutely appreciate every minute of the opportunity she has next month. We've both looked forward to it for years.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by in 'em View Post
This [email protected] is far worse than animal populations decreasing...crazy world we live in. My wife homeschools at this point...much because of this stuff.


We homeschool as well. This current world we live in was in imaginable to me 10 years ago


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Old 10-10-2019, 03:08 PM   #46
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Tightlip: Tough to grasp. Makes me wonder why bringing kids into this world is a good thing. We teach one way to fit our world now not realizing the changes that will occur they’ll need to face down the road. Those changes controlled by those not raised as they were. Not pretty. Won’t be long, the stuff is going to hit the fan with such force the planet won’t recover for a long time.

If anyone would like to read an introspect into todays society, Bill Maher is interviewed in New York Times Magazine and he gives a very clear perspective on why we’re in the sorry state of affairs we live in today. If it doesn’t change, it’ll be worse tomorrow and the saddest part is, it won’t change.

You don’t have to like Bill Maher but you’ve got to take his message seriously. It will surprise you.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:11 PM   #47
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Let’s be honest.
Oregon is far from perfect. Our big game numbers flat out suck! West and East. Granted, we have pockets of honey holes and I currently have a honey hole East for mule deer. 20-30 bucks seen during the season, 3-4 darn good ones.
Public.
Upland hunting is phenomenal. Waterfowl some of the best in the country. Public.
Fishing, well, we have it. Saltwater is good. Nothing like the gulf or Atlantic, but still good.
Our salmon/steelhead is nothing like it should be.

Coast deer and elk. Absolutely nothing like it was 30 years ago. Nothing! We have opportunity, but that’s about the word to describe it.

It is very very very hard to have been hunting this state for 30-40 years or longer and be happy. Absolutely impossible.
Younger generation can’t really gauge it on anything but the present. But, honestly the present sucks if you grew up years ago.

We can blame population increase(but but...everyone tells us hunter numbers are declining)??

Loper just proved tag numbers have decreased.

Routinely, I hunt multiple states, not just in the west. I can assure you, Oregon sucks.
Our leadership and their policies are too blame. Proper leadership, wouldn’t put up with our current issues. We’d de-list wolves and run cougars up trees.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:17 PM   #48
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Im surprised how nobody has quoted the % increase in "handicap" tags over the last 10 years....


I dont have too much of a problem with the youth tags...but the disabled tag numbers are ridiculous....
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:28 PM   #49
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Im surprised how nobody has quoted the % increase in "handicap" tags over the last 10 years....


I dont have too much of a problem with the youth tags...but the disabled tag numbers are ridiculous....
I was so happy that a lot of units got rid of the hair tags for handicap.
I know a ton of “disabled “ folks that would shoot their cow out the truck window.
Sleep apnea and a sore knee shouldn’t meet the requirements. Very easy to fool the system, which in turn hurt the folks that truly were in need of assistance
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:20 PM   #50
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Sorry but shangi la dosent exist. For every pro there is a con, unless you are a fanatic and just focus on one aspect of life and call it good. There isnt a country in the globe that has ‘no tag’ uncontrolled hunting and ample game. Unless noone lives there!
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:23 PM   #51
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I left Illinois years ago because there were no public lands, and the few areas that weren't private were littered with diapers, beer cans and tires. Folks asked me, "...there's some monster whitetail out there?" Good luck hunting them if you don't have family land or can't afford a high end lease. Almost nobody allowed access if you weren't family.

To me Oregon and Washington both have their share of problems, but it's better than many places. I think the special tags for youth, disabled and Hunters 65 and over are a good thing...and I doubt those folks are putting much of a dent in herd. Not as much as some of the serial poachers out there.

And how many of you good folks would let people hunt on your private land if you had it?...without financial gain.
The grass is greener, despite the downer politicians.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:19 PM   #52
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I left 16 months ago and have hated every day i've been gone.
2 years in california where there is no hunting, is almost to much to bear.
Can't wait to get back to my homeland. 8 more months down here in LA LA land. You never know how good you have it, until you can no longer enjoy it.

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Old 10-10-2019, 07:46 PM   #53
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I love Oregon but I know that the clock is ticking and I will be leaving at some point. Sad but a reality. When our kids are out of school we will probably be leaving. If not at that point, then we will need to leave before we retire.
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:33 AM   #54
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The next thing I started to notice was the permission granted by land owners was falling dramatically. "Back in the day" you pretty much knew who was gonna give you permission, and who was not....I'm sure everyone
So, I now live in a place that has a small population of people in comparison to land, Where the people actually take what they need and use, there is no "youth" hunts, because the youths go right along with the family and are hunting along side, where I can hunt year round...with no tags (a small hint). Although the species are not the same as Oregon, I enjoy myself...I don't have to worry about a "draw" because there is none...everyone hunts/fishes/gathers and is cool with each other....THIS is why I left Oregon
There will be locals who will be writing the same story as yours in 30-40 years, talking about how things were different when they were younger.

"when I was a kid hunting was open year round and there were no tag draws, then the Oregonians started moving in and it all changed"

I wonder where these disillusioned locals will move to find their childhood?

Oh, the viscous cycle.
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:10 AM   #55
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Take a look at page 11 of this document.

Welcome to minority status.
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:35 AM   #56
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I really really really really really REALLY wished I could talk my wife into moving.

I'm not even quite 40 yet, and even the 'Oregon' I remember is a pipe dream compared to what we have today, on so many levels.
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:39 AM   #57
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Take a look at page 11 of this document.

Welcome to minority status.
From earlier in that link:
Quote:
• Embraces wildlife as part of a
person’s extended social network.
• See animals as family or
companions and deserving of
caring and rights, like humans.
• Human and wildlife living side by
side without fear.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:29 AM   #58
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From earlier in that link:


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Old 10-11-2019, 11:59 AM   #59
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Default Re: WHY I left Oregon (Long Read)

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Originally Posted by loper View Post
Take a look at page 11 of this document.

Welcome to minority status.
Oh boy.......

Where was this presented and who want the target audience?
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:09 PM   #60
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Default Re: WHY I left Oregon (Long Read)

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Originally Posted by Stonefly1 View Post
Oh boy.......

Where was this presented and who want the target audience?
It's on the schedule for presentation earlier this morning.

The ODFW Commission.
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