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Old 10-08-2019, 07:21 AM   #1
squirrel4151
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Default paulina unit/fort rock unit

lets see those paulina and fort rock unit bucks. spent 8 days in the paulina unit and saw 0 bucks. only saw about 30 does. seems that these units are going down hill. would like some feedback of what others think of these two units this year.

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Old 10-08-2019, 07:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Hunted fort rock unit and saw two deer. One buck before season. Only one fork killed in camp with 6 tags.


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Old 10-08-2019, 07:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

No report for this year as I hunted the Metolious unit with the same results. I grew up hunting the Paulina unit starting in the late 70's going with my dad. It was the only unit we hunted up until a few years ago. Man, the early years good. We pulled some big bucks out of there. The last fifteen years or so, not much. Bucks that were shot were often forks. Still saw the occasional wall hanger but they were smart enough not to hang around long enough.

Last few hunts over there we noticed an obvious decline in the population. Some years we saw very few doe's, let alone bucks. Growing up over there and having hunted the area for over 30 years, I have a good historical perspective of what has happened. Makes me sad to think about what my kids have to look forward to.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

i feel you sir. i have hunted that unit for 25 years, and the decline is bad. trying to get my kids into hunting but when the last couple of years we havent seen much so its hard for them to get into. with all the good stories we have told them the last couple years havent justified it. we even tried fort rock unit one year and that was a disaster.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I commented on the Fort Rock unit in another thread it was terrible not just bucks but very few deer total. I really want to know how they justify 2500 tags.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:18 AM   #6
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Same for our group in the Fort Rock unit. Hunted all season and one very small forked horn. It's getting depressing to put miles a day on your boots and see 2 deer per season.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

My brother in laws group went 3-4 nothing big just forks and spikes


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Old 10-08-2019, 10:38 AM   #8
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I really want to know how they justify 2500 tags.
Because they know people will buy them. They will continue to do so as long as they sell. I doubt there are 2500 deer left in Paulina unit from what I saw last February in historic winter grounds. I spent a day east of Pune mountain last February before the big snow storm and saw a total of zero deer in an area I used to see hundreds. They should shut deer seasons down for at least three years IMO.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw View Post
My brother in laws group went 3-4 nothing big just forks and spikes


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All units in eastern oregon ahould be 3point or better.. let em grow. But thats my 2 cents. Also think they should go to draw for bow in eastern oregon too.. ODFW needs to help the animals out. As we do too!!!

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Old 10-08-2019, 10:50 AM   #10
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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Originally Posted by kaseyfield View Post
All units in eastern oregon ahould be 3point or better.. let em grow. But thats my 2 cents. Also think they should go to draw for bow in eastern oregon too.. ODFW needs to help the animals out. As we do too!!!

Kasey
Agreed. Everyone complains about lack of deer or small deer, but let the air out of first legal buck they see. I get it, that 60#s of meat is important.
I’d rather hunt 10 days and see small bucks and not shoot, than hunt 2 days and shoot first small buck. I’m crazy that way.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:51 AM   #11
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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Originally Posted by kaseyfield View Post
All units in eastern oregon ahould be 3point or better.. let em grow. But thats my 2 cents. Also think they should go to draw for bow in eastern oregon too.. ODFW needs to help the animals out. As we do too!!!

Kasey
Agreed. Everyone complains about lack of deer or small deer, but let the air out of first legal buck they see. I get it, that 60#s of meat is important.
I’d rather hunt 10 days and see small bucks and not shoot, than hunt 2 days and shoot first small buck. I’m crazy that way. Not saying either style is bad, just folks shouldn’t complain about lack of bucks when they shoot first buck they see.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I dont care about small bucks either but when cant even find any deer not even does that is saying something. They need to hear more from hunters.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I think that these days, hunting these units really becomes more of just a camping trip. Then as mentioned people readily shoot spikes and forks. What deer are seen never get a chance to grow.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

On my trail cameras in Fort Rock its crazy how few deer I see, and how consistently I get pictures of bears. Some cats also, but lots and lots of bears.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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Originally Posted by kaseyfield View Post
All units in eastern oregon ahould be 3point or better.. let em grow. But thats my 2 cents. Also think they should go to draw for bow in eastern oregon too.. ODFW needs to help the animals out. As we do too!!!



Kasey


I agree with you


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Old 10-08-2019, 01:33 PM   #16
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Unhappy Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

If if any of you have doubts about the populations in the Pauline and Fort rock units you're absolutely correct those populations have gone down drastically in the last 10 years with last year's winter kill being significant. If you want to see a very good and thought out plan Wayne Endicott from the bow rack and OHA came up with a pretty good sounding mule deer management plan Which include rotating seasons and rotating units with limited numbers of tags for the pilot project encompassing I think 3 or 4 units in central Oregon.
In my opinion and I'm sure others agree that Oregon does not manage wildlife but rather hundred opportunity. Oregon is an opportunity state and tag numbers reflect that but hunting quality is usually poor based on most hunters reports.
I asked Wayne about answer point restrictions and he was of the mindset that they don't necessarily work because most people would only shoot the larger bucks anyway when seen which Would result in a depletion of the more mature bucks gene pool and allowing inferior forks or 3 points to do a lot of the breeding. Planning simple it's a poor buck to doe Ratio problem, And there simply aren't enough mature bucks to breed (with success) the numbers of those out there.
The other problem is ODFW really has no idea how many deer are in particular units as the counting methods are fuzzy math at best. I came up with an idea of aerial infrared deer counts years back after seeing how states back East have Had great success and much more positive results versus traditional drive at my spotlight counts. It was very easy to tell bucks from those with infrared sensor because of the mass in the headgear region which will show up brightly and infrared scans.
The last problem is that hunters in general don't really want to have less opportunity by reduced tag numbers but really don't have a dang choice. ODFW budget comes largely from license and tag sales and with reduced tags you have less money in the budget which results in less management and poor management at that.
Last opinions that I think everyone at the ODFW should go to Wyoming or Colorado and actually learn how to manage fish and wildlife. It seems those 2 states do a tremendous job with managing those resources, Especially Wyoming! Which is where I plan to be hunting the next several years because oregon past its prime and has been since the early 80s with no change or result in sight. Once the state let largely uninformed voters decide on the cat and bear bait issue our dear and elk herds have started to suffer With no end of this in sight.
I've lived in this state 49 years and hunted 37 of that on Eastern and Western Oregon units and quality of hunting is getting worse every year.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I talked to the Bio and he is in agreement between road kills, cats, bears and snow he recommending to cut tags. But its not his call alone we will see what happens the decline is real and he agrees.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

The rotating unit moratorium on deer and elk hunting is a great idea. Unfortunately, people want to hunt every year so will complain.


But people complain anyway. People in most western states all complain about lack of hunting opportunity or the quality of the hunt. Idaho is raising it's non-resident prices. Colorado changed it's draw process, making it harder in future years. Wyoming probably isn't far behind in starting to put restrictions on non-residents. No state is perfect. Oregon has a reputation for managing for opportunity rather than quality of deer/elk. All states have some species struggling for some reason or another.


The majority of people that complain about predators don't go on intentional mountain lion or bear hunts. Most just would shoot one if they saw it on a deer or elk hunt.


It's not an easy problem to fix, as the winter kill also has an effect.


I'd like to see the state test out the rotating unit moratorium idea though. No hunting allowed in certain units every year, and keep it rotating. Also, give an extra deer or elk preference point to anybody that fills their mountain lion and/or bear tags. Incentivize hunters to prioritize predator hunting for a few years.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Some good ideas

OTE=backpackhunter;16136397]The rotating unit moratorium on deer and elk hunting is a great idea. Unfortunately, people want to hunt every year so will complain.


But people complain anyway. People in most western states all complain about lack of hunting opportunity or the quality of the hunt. Idaho is raising it's non-resident prices. Colorado changed it's draw process, making it harder in future years. Wyoming probably isn't far behind in starting to put restrictions on non-residents. No state is perfect. Oregon has a reputation for managing for opportunity rather than quality of deer/elk. All states have some species struggling for some reason or another.


The majority of people that complain about predators don't go on intentional mountain lion or bear hunts. Most just would shoot one if they saw it on a deer or elk hunt.


It's not an easy problem to fix, as the winter kill also has an effect.


I'd like to see the state test out the rotating unit moratorium idea though. No hunting allowed in certain units every year, and keep it rotating. Also, give an extra deer or elk preference point to anybody that fills their mountain lion and/or bear tags. Incentivize hunters to prioritize predator hunting for a few years.[/QUOTE]
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:25 PM   #20
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I commented on the Fort Rock unit in another thread it was terrible not just bucks but very few deer total. I really want to know how they justify 2500 tags.
$$$$$

The ideology is unreal in the managment sector. Apparently they dont get out much ...
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:27 PM   #21
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I was told today that wolves are a problem in the Fort Rock area. I was told that today from 2 seperate hunters that hunted the Fork Rock unit.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

It’s refreshing to see so many people in tune to wildlife issues instead of just repeating the same rhetoric of “blame ODFW for all of our problems”.

There’s a lot of good ideas on how we might be able to turn things around. With enough involvement and action maybe we can make a difference.


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Old 10-08-2019, 03:54 PM   #23
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We need to figure out how to control predators so we can at least have that share of the alotment back....

rotation of units is a good idea but I think it will just show more predation do to less hunter activities.. just a thought

winter range problems with cold and feed issues seems like that could be some what managed if need be with license and tag revenue! Oops there's none left !
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I had friends that hunted fort rock this year, 9 guys they killed 4 bears no deer. they did see a 4x4 but didn't get a shot off.
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:57 PM   #25
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I talked to the Bio and he is in agreement between road kills, cats, bears and snow he recommending to cut tags. But its not his call alone we will see what happens the decline is real and he agrees.
BS!! Let us use dogs again to put the real problem to rest... isn’t it ironic a decade after the dog ban took effect, cats took over the timber. Who da thunk?
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:01 PM   #26
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I had friends that hunted fort rock this year, 9 guys they killed 4 bears no deer. they did see a 4x4 but didn't get a shot off.


Lot of bears out there. Looked at the stats for upper deschutes last year only 11 reported bears killed. I could about cover that on one trail cam.


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Old 10-08-2019, 05:31 PM   #27
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Because they know people will buy them. They will continue to do so as long as they sell. I doubt there are 2500 deer left in Paulina unit from what I saw last February in historic winter grounds. I spent a day east of Pune mountain last February before the big snow storm and saw a total of zero deer in an area I used to see hundreds. They should shut deer seasons down for at least three years IMO.

Yes this exactly. Also sick of hearing about biologist's opinions on it but their "hands are tied".
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:37 PM   #28
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

More bears in fort rock than any other unit I have been in..have yet to get a cougar on the trail cam..i had 9 different bears on camera this year alone.

I think odfw should have 5 units that get selected a year for no deer hunting and just rotate to 5 different units each year. This of course would lead to a decrease in tag sales and overall revenue. We've got to get the deer numbers up somehow.

What are people's thoughts on a money reward system for cougar kills? The money would be funded by hunters for hunters. I for one do not actively go out hunting cougar specifically, but I would be willing to help contribute to those who do and are successful. Maybe this is just a crazy idea??
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Used to hunt Paulina. The camp we were in had literally hunted there since the 1950s. 20+ folks in that camp. Lotta eyes in the woods. Everyone seen deer every day.

Lived in Bend in mid 90s. Spent a lotta days in those woods back then. It was normal to see 30 deer a day just driving roads during season. More if you got off the road, and found a travel lane. Plenty of bucks from a wide variety of age classes.

By the early 2000s, we noted a steep decline in numbers. We blames it on a lot of things. Hard winters. Mt lions. Poaching (Lot of this takes place according to DFW). Traffic impacts. Development.

Eventually, tag numbers were reduced. But it never seemed to keep up with the ever decreasing herd numbers.

Quit going there in 2008. Seen the same 8-10 does every day. Seen one little spike (That years brood) in 5 days. Seen more cougar tracks that season than ever before. Had a couple folks in camp actually see cougar(s). Plus two more heard a cat cry/howl (I dunno how to describe the sound. Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I heard it).

DFW still sells a lotta tags for the unit. They publicly admitted that more deer are poached than legally hunted. Yet they still sell tags.

Hunting private land now. Pay for admission. See lotsa critters every day of season. It's nifty to see that the land can still provide quality opportunity.....if it's managed properly. Even in the day and age of wolves and cougars. Buying points for other states now.

I miss those days in Paulina. It's a shame how it's played out.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:32 AM   #30
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

This problem began back in the late 90’s. I grew up archery hunting the Fort Rock and in a three day weekend, you could count 250-300 deer. That began declining quickly to the point around 2000-2002, in the same weekend you could count maybe 2 dozen deer. There are many problems in this unit and everyone is to blame. They use to issue 5500 rifle tags in Fort Rock! Tack on predators, roadkill, poaching, tribal hunters, bad winters, excessive doe permits, etc... it’s no wonder there’s any deer left!

Party hunting in that area was really bad. We new of people that bragged about it. Everyone hunted till all the tags were filled.

Everyone wants to blame predators, but the problem is much much bigger than that.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:09 AM   #31
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I spoke a few years ago with the biologist for the Fort Rock unit and the information she gave me was pretty shocking but followed exactly what we were seeing. There are so few deer to start out with in the unit, then between winterkill, predators, poaching and the highways, it seems they don't stand a chance to even make it to hunting season. My family hunted in the same spot since the 50's and stopped seeing deer in the mid-2000's and we finally moved a little west to even start seeing deer again. But these are mostly does and fawns with a few forked-horns and spikes. I'm not saying that there aren't any respectable bucks in the unit, but they are the exception rather than the rule.
I value my opportunity to hunt, especially in a spot that has so much history with my family. But I think I value having a successful hunt more. I would trade hunting for a camping trip(camping trips are much more relaxing when I don't put 50+ miles on the ground in a week). I also hate the idea of just giving up on the unit and finding something else, I've never been good at giving up, but I think that is what is going to happen. I think we will see hunters start avoiding these areas where deer numbers are severely low and focusing on the units that still show promise.
There is a lot to be said about hunting for an animal that you know is there and having an opportunity at an animal bigger that a forked-horn. I don't want to just be a parrot on here but maybe I have to start looking for units that provide opportunity to shoot nice bucks consistently for 1-2 preference points instead of hunting the same unit every year.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:03 AM   #32
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ODFW has uses units like Upper Deschutes, Paulina and fort rock as opportunity units. They know there are very few deer left but they are trying to keep hunters happy by giving them a place to hunt annually or at least every other year. In doing so they have sacrificed the deer population to keep hunters happy and gain revenue at the same time.
I have never deer hunted any of these sacrificial units for that very reason.
Nothing will change until more hunters voice concern about the declined deer population more than they do opportunity to hunt what’s left.
It amazes me that people are actually surprised at the lack of deer they are seeing when they go mule deer hunting in Oregon. That sad thing is even the units that are managed more for quality than opportunity are in the same boat. There is no great mule deer hunting anymore in Oregon. Don’t be fooled by thinking your getting a great deer hunt by cashing in more points or waiting longer, those days are over people.

On the success thread there are a few nice bucks people have shared. A 170 class buck should not be a rarity in Oregon, 140-150 should be common. We have good genetics here, few bucks get the chance to show it before they are killed by something or someone.

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Old 10-09-2019, 08:27 AM   #33
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Drove back from a friends house after spending the night at Terrebonne on Fri
9/27. Hwy 97-58-I-5. Never have seen so many rigs with ATV's and UTV's headed east.
Looked like dunefest but the wrong direction.
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:05 AM   #34
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ODFW has uses units like Upper Deschutes, Paulina and fort rock as opportunity units. They know there are very few deer left but they are trying to keep hunters happy by giving them a place to hunt annually or at least every other year. In doing so they have sacrificed the deer population to keep hunters happy and gain revenue at the same time.
This is spot on!
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Hunted Upper Deschutes this year. 6 days hunting and saw less than 10 deer, no bucks. I am a back country hunter, 3+ miles in. Consensus was the same among most hunters, very few deer. The bucks I saw that were harvested were small 3 points. I heard of two large bucks that were seen but not shot. Only 1 forky shot that I know of. The March snow killed the bulk of last years fawns. Couple that with the bad winter from 2 years leave only a remnant heard. Friend who has hunted Wickup area for last 20 years and kills a buck every year said their group saw a hand full of does and zero bucks.

Cut tracks from 2 different cougars and 4 bears in the snow.

Keeping tags numbers the same with this few deer puts a lot of pressure on the remaining bucks. Don't know how they can justify that.

The Upper Deschutes population is at a point where it cannot with stand another harsh winter. I want to keep hunting but not sure that can be justified.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:29 AM   #36
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I have bowhunted Fort rock/Paulina off and on since I was 12. Spent a lot of time in the last 3 year running trail cameras. 2017 was pretty good, 2018 less deer for sure, 2019 was BAD. I've got a couple of the same big bucks that are smart enough to make it through, but the lack of does fawns, and small bucks this year is scary. I know friends in upper Deschutes that didn't even have deer on camera. I feel if something isn't done these deer will be gone in 10 years. Pretty sad, I would love to see/help something change for the better in these units. If managed right they could be incredible. Best genetics in the state. Even with the minimal deer there are still a few 200" bucks lurking the pole patches.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Man what happened to the good ol' days when you could get one tag and it was good anywhere in the state.
No special units until the last week of the season. Then it had to be confined to agricultural area's.
But it was good for a hair tag.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Fishfeet View Post
Man what happened to the good ol' days when you could get one tag and it was good anywhere in the state.
No special units until the last week of the season. Then it had to be confined to agricultural area's.
But it was good for a hair tag.
That is what happened to the state (the above), excessive harvest, especially on older bucks, this probably started us down the road of lower fawn recruitment, at the same time predation was swinging back up from all time lows. Managers should have cut us back, but they were too busy selling more tags.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

I hunted the Paulina unit. Put over 25 miles on my boots. Saw one doe with a fawn. Never heard one shot opening weekend.
Hunted the Sand Spring area. Saw at least 50 camps and saw one deer hanging on Monday. 15 years ago I would see at least 50 deer a day.
Last few days hunted out of home between horse butte and Swampy wells. Never saw an animal. Cut cats tracks two different occasions. Different animals. One was a female with one cub the other was a single animal.
Deer tracks in the snow on the first weekend.NOT never cut a track.
My buddy hunted fort rock unit same results no deer. Draw every two to three years and it is worse then the last time you hunted.
I guess the predators will move into the city limits very soon when the last deer is consumed in these units. There are plenty of deer in town. Looking at twenty does and fawns in my pasture as I write this.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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Originally Posted by squirrel4151 View Post
lets see those paulina and fort rock unit bucks. spent 8 days in the paulina unit and saw 0 bucks. only saw about 30 does. seems that these units are going down hill. would like some feedback of what others think of these two units this year.
hunted 7 days maybe 35 does no bucks bad weather ,,boot time and 500 miles on the side by side mostly due to travel mgmt area restictions tons of hunters saying the same thing no bucks..
wast of time b,s unit poor mgmt
wont be back..
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:22 AM   #41
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I commented on the Fort Rock unit in another thread it was terrible not just bucks but very few deer total. I really want to know how they justify 2500 tags.

2500 x $$$ = ODFW's reason?
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:27 AM   #42
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

It's not the tags they need to focus on reducing. Predator control..
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:54 PM   #43
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Just got back. I had no problem finding mature bucks to hunt. They live in stuff so thick you just have to be supper lucky to see them. Very low doe/fawn numbers in the area. In about 1 month these mature deer will be out of hiding. Fighting over the very few doe to breed. No fresh bear sign in my area, unusual. No fresh Cougar tracks, unusual. A lot more Coyote than I have ever seen working the Snow Shoe Hare population. Deer food was in exceptional condition. The deer that are left should enter winter fat. Saw 2 sets of boot tracks all season. 2 guys hunting near the road by camp. Mushroom pickers are a problem in the prime doe/fawn habitat. Hope this tag soup tastes better than last years.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:44 PM   #44
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

We were on the Walker side saw 2 different cougar tracks saw fresh bear sign. 1 dead deer along 97 from Chemult to Klathama. Baltz i am moving over to your neck of the woods next spring. Maybe you can teach me how to cougar hunt 👍


E=baltz526;16138551]Just got back. I had no problem finding mature bucks to hunt. They live in stuff so thick you just have to be supper lucky to see them. Very low doe/fawn numbers in the area. In about 1 month these mature deer will be out of hiding. Fighting over the very few doe to breed. No fresh bear sign in my area, unusual. No fresh Cougar tracks, unusual. A lot more Coyote than I have ever seen working the Snow Shoe Hare population. Deer food was in exceptional condition. The deer that are left should enter winter fat. Saw 2 sets of boot tracks all season. 2 guys hunting near the road by camp. Mushroom pickers are a problem in the prime doe/fawn habitat. Hope this tag soup tastes better than last years.[/QUOTE]
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

The big secret to Cougar hunting. Find the higher concentration places. Then hunt it. Repeatedly. Eventually you will cross path with Cougar. When you are deer/elk/bear/coyote hunting and cut fresh Cougar tracks, Start looking for Cougar. Track it. We will be in Cougar camp in February. This area gets Cougar from Upper Deschutes, Paulina, Fort Rock, Silver Lake, Wagon tire and other units. All converging on winter range, eating Deer and Elk.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:15 AM   #46
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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2500 x $$$ = ODFW's reason?


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Old 10-12-2019, 07:42 AM   #47
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Let me know I may be able to make it this year.

OTE=baltz526;16139833]The big secret to Cougar hunting. Find the higher concentration places. Then hunt it. Repeatedly. Eventually you will cross path with Cougar. When you are deer/elk/bear/coyote hunting and cut fresh Cougar tracks, Start looking for Cougar. Track it. We will be in Cougar camp in February. This area gets Cougar from Upper Deschutes, Paulina, Fort Rock, Silver Lake, Wagon tire and other units. All converging on winter range, eating Deer and Elk.[/QUOTE]
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:11 AM   #48
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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Originally Posted by baltz526 View Post
The big secret to Cougar hunting. Find the higher concentration places. Then hunt it. Repeatedly. Eventually you will cross path with Cougar. When you are deer/elk/bear/coyote hunting and cut fresh Cougar tracks, Start looking for Cougar. Track it. We will be in Cougar camp in February. This area gets Cougar from Upper Deschutes, Paulina, Fort Rock, Silver Lake, Wagon tire and other units. All converging on winter range, eating Deer and Elk.


I’ve been waiting for you to mention cougar camp in this thread. With all of solutions being offered here cougar camp should see a record attendance.


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Old 10-12-2019, 10:24 AM   #49
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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I’ve been waiting for you to mention cougar camp in this thread. With all of solutions being offered here cougar camp should see a record attendance.


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You have to think a little harder than that, even if we filled the quota's we can't bring the cat population down. The potential growth rate is higher than what can be removed within the quota frame work.

Doesn't mean though that I wouldn't like to take a cat or two!
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:13 PM   #50
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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You have to think a little harder than that, even if we filled the quota's we can't bring the cat population down. The potential growth rate is higher than what can be removed within the quota frame work.

Doesn't mean though that I wouldn't like to take a cat or two!
I add the deer saved by killing a cougar. If I kill a 5 year old female. (like my last tag report) and the average age a female cat gets to. Say 12 years. It has 2 kittens every other year. That removes 7 cats and all their off spring. So 7 times 40 deer a year=280 deer saved by killing cat A. Then the 7 years cat A did not live to eat. Another 280 deer. The rate of deer kills, the kittens not born would escalate each year. 80-80-160-160-320-320. Starts make a difference. 1680 deer not killed is a big savings. For 7 years of not eating deer. Then if cat A lived a full life and every kitten lived that average 12 years. It may very well save 10,000 plus deer in 2 decades.
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:55 PM   #51
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I am curious how many Cougars were harvested in cougar camp last season? I am interested in attending what is the average harvest at each year?
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:13 PM   #52
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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Originally Posted by baltz526 View Post
I add the deer saved by killing a cougar. If I kill a 5 year old female. (like my last tag report) and the average age a female cat gets to. Say 12 years. It has 2 kittens every other year. That removes 7 cats and all their off spring. So 7 times 40 deer a year=280 deer saved by killing cat A. Then the 7 years cat A did not live to eat. Another 280 deer. The rate of deer kills, the kittens not born would escalate each year. 80-80-160-160-320-320. Starts make a difference. 1680 deer not killed is a big savings. For 7 years of not eating deer. Then if cat A lived a full life and every kitten lived that average 12 years. It may very well save 10,000 plus deer in 2 decades.
The only trouble Richard is that cat A will soon be replaced by another cat. Cougars have a 12% reproductive growth capability recent research has shown. Currently Oregons cats have appeared to have peaked out in population, probably because of rapidly declining game. If a void is filled they will fill it.

I not saying that your efforts don't make a short term gain in a small geographic area, but the end result will not be changed from the trajectory we are on.

We have to get to the point that we are actually reducing the overall population of cougars to get the the example you showed to work.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:43 PM   #53
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

Kill the Females and Cougar populations will decline. They taste better also.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:58 PM   #54
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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The only trouble Richard is that cat A will soon be replaced by another cat. Cougars have a 12% reproductive growth capability recent research has shown. Currently Oregons cats have appeared to have peaked out in population, probably because of rapidly declining game. If a void is filled they will fill it.



I not saying that your efforts don't make a short term gain in a small geographic area, but the end result will not be changed from the trajectory we are on.



We have to get to the point that we are actually reducing the overall population of cougars to get the the example you showed to work.


By this response -and the response to my post- what do you suggest we do, nothing? Keep complaining about not being able to hunt with hounds?

Here’s what I can control in this moment, I can go out and attempt to fill a cougar tag that I have. This could potentially save deer and elk. I will make that attempt while I work on other options of helping out deer and elk herds, options including the capital, habitat, etc.

Here’s what I won’t do, tell people their efforts to harvest cougars and other predators don’t make that much of a difference while discussing the decline of our deer and elk herds.


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Old 10-12-2019, 03:46 PM   #55
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By this response -and the response to my post- what do you suggest we do, nothing? Keep complaining about not being able to hunt with hounds?

Here’s what I can control in this moment, I can go out and attempt to fill a cougar tag that I have. This could potentially save deer and elk. I will make that attempt while I work on other options of helping out deer and elk herds, options including the capital, habitat, etc.

Here’s what I won’t do, tell people their efforts to harvest cougars and other predators don’t make that much of a difference while discussing the decline of our deer and elk herds.


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Have at it, I hunt them too, but I don't buy into the false narrative. See we can get caught up in chasing false hopes and being distracted from what really needs to happen on the landscape. The bio's and the department just laugh at us when we come up with these biologically unsubstantiated claims and we loose all credibility.

Frankly we need to over turn the hound ban, but we all know that is not going to happen. To Richards point, if the ban was overturned, harvesting females would be the goal, that is the quickest way to reduce the cougar population and is exactly opposite of what the guides were doing when we could run the hounds.

I have a sneaking suspicion that our primary premise of big game management of harvesting males before the breeding seasons may be flawed. I'm pretty sure the current model of allowing harvest on older males by everybody participating is flawed too.

We need leaders that can embrace new ideas, force change in the department, the status quo is not cutting it.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:27 PM   #56
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I am curious how many Cougars were harvested in cougar camp last season? I am interested in attending what is the average harvest at each year?
Search for last years thread
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:20 PM   #57
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Wow! after reading all this, it sure has changed. I use to hunt the pine mountain area and if the deer had started their migration we would go hunt fort rock.

we would have a dozen people in our party and would easily fill most of the tags, easily seeing 50 deer per day, lots of bucks picking and choosing. that was in the late 70's and early 80's before I quit hunting. sad to see this.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:11 AM   #58
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Wow! after reading all this, it sure has changed. I use to hunt the pine mountain area and if the deer had started their migration we would go hunt fort rock.

we would have a dozen people in our party and would easily fill most of the tags, easily seeing 50 deer per day, lots of bucks picking and choosing. that was in the late 70's and early 80's before I quit hunting. sad to see this.
I grew up hunting Pine Mountain as a kid with my dad, similar time frame. I remember a ton of camps just up the mountain on the left side of the road. I went back there about ten years ago and no one was hunting it. The lack of any deer sign I saw was probably why. Pretty sad, I have some great memories learning to hunt that mountain.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:35 AM   #59
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Default Re: paulina unit/fort rock unit

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...harvesting females would be the goal, that is the quickest way to reduce the cougar population and is exactly opposite of what the guides were doing when we could run the hounds.
Not sure how many clients would pay $4400 each for a 5-day 1-on-2 hunt in Oregon to take a female cougar.

It is an issue even in this state in a couple of the target areas; at the right time of year, it is far more lucrative to guide for bobcat.
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