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Old 09-04-2019, 01:11 PM   #1
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Default Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

Midnight Thursday:

https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/20...ose-early.html

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Old 09-04-2019, 01:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

When do the nets go in??
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:14 PM   #3
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When do the nets go in??

Sports went 50% over so commercial fishery isn't in the cards.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

Pro trolls to effective. I know nobody wants to hear that but they are. I’m guilty to as we hammered on them today. Never seen wobblers fish that well in the dead zone for sure


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Old 09-04-2019, 03:07 PM   #5
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Pro trolls to effective. I know nobody wants to hear that but they are. I’m guilty to as we hammered on them today. Never seen wobblers fish that well in the dead zone for sure


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On the other hand, maybe their projections are wrong, there are a lot of bright chinook in the Columbia. More fish, more hookups regardless of the method you use.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

Glad I made it out today in my buddies boat. First try for Fallies this year and picked up a little cookie cutter at Davis bar.
Saw many many (lost count) fish bonked today. Same guy has limited the last two days.
Figures they are closing it as the catch rate has been significant.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

My email from ODFW says 12:01 Thursday river is closed for chinook.
The Oregonian per Bill Monroe says 12:01 Friday.
So which is it?
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:18 PM   #8
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On the other hand, maybe their projections are wrong, there are a lot of bright chinook in the Columbia. More fish, more hookups regardless of the method you use.


Maybe but regardless since the pro troll scene started there have been way more wild Chinook killed by sport fisherman in the infamous dead zone. The wobbler bites up here of the past where never that great. I mean you would have some good days but not like the pro trolling of today’s world . Believe me I would rather troll any day as I dislike rotting on the hook.
Would trolling straight spinners work with out flashers. Heck yeah but would they be as effective as what is going on now??? I’d say NO

Also Cary I agree about the Run size. I think it will exceed expectations as far as Chinook goes. Not expecting a million Coho though. Time will tell.


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Old 09-04-2019, 04:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

I might bet that the return is as good or better than pre season estimates.

It's usually pretty simple- When there's fish around, folks catch em. If they caught fish, it's because they were there.

Time will tell.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:28 PM   #10
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Maybe but regardless since the pro troll scene started there have been way more wild Chinook killed by sport fisherman in the infamous dead zone. The wobbler bites up here of the past where never that great. I mean you would have some good days but not like the pro trolling of today’s world . Believe me I would rather troll any day as I dislike rotting on the hook.
Would trolling straight spinners work with out flashers. Heck yeah but would they be as effective as what is going on now??? I’d say NO

Also Cary I agree about the Run size. I think it will exceed expectations as far as Chinook goes. Not expecting a million Coho though. Time will tell.


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I believe dead zone impacts have increased 300-400% per NOF numbers last spring. The sport fleet has become incredibly efficient at catching fish throughout the lower river from B10 to Boneville.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

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Pro trolls to effective. I know nobody wants to hear that but they are. I’m guilty to as we hammered on them today. Never seen wobblers fish that well in the dead zone for sure


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Sure pro trolls are effective and thats why guys are catching fish with them. But thats also what the majority are using when they are trolling so no wonder they would catch fish. Before ProTrolls came along I used to fish flashers and herring and catch a ton of fish in the dead zone!! And it would still work today!!
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:01 PM   #12
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I believe dead zone impacts have increased 300-400% per NOF numbers last spring. The sport fleet has become incredibly efficient at catching fish throughout the lower river from B10 to Boneville.
Yeah, tough to tell but we have been catching steelhead, salmon and sea run cutthroats since 1958 and it’s the amount of fish that counts. Humans footprint, it affects everything. Fishing techniques come and go but it always ends up the same, less fish😢
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:05 PM   #13
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Yeah, tough to tell but we have been catching steelhead, salmon and sea run cutthroats since 1958 and it’s the amount of fish that counts. Humans footprint, it affects everything. Fishing techniques come and go but it always ends up the same, less fish😢
That's why I keep beating the "more fish for everyone" drum.

Habitat will never be restored to what wild fish need. We need a smart approach to hatchery and wild production.
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:26 PM   #14
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That's why I keep beating the "more fish for everyone" drum.

Habitat will never be restored to what wild fish need. We need a smart approach to hatchery and wild production.
Absolutely agree, the trouble is , we always seem to be behind the 8 ball and the people in the know are unsure where to set the cue up😥
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:38 PM   #15
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Going out tomorrow hoping for the best, we’ve been lighting it up. Got skunked today, it was pretty slow up at Reed island. Lots of fish in the river.
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:45 PM   #16
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It's time to move to selective fishing!
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:53 PM   #17
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It's time to move to selective fishing!
Yeah, we’ve always done that for 50 years. You have to go with the flow. It’s a zen thing, become one with the flow. Live in the moment😎
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:54 PM   #18
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It's time to move to selective fishing!


Clip rate would be horrible especially on the URB’s and we would be releasing a lot of fish that probably wouldn’t make it. I’m not saying I’m against selective fishing in the fall I just don’t think it’s a good move to handle all those wild fish during warm river temps. It’s bad enough dealing with all the wild Coho


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Old 09-04-2019, 05:58 PM   #19
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I might bet that the return is as good or better than pre season estimates.



It's usually pretty simple- When there's fish around, folks catch em. If they caught fish, it's because they were there.



Time will tell.




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Old 09-04-2019, 06:08 PM   #20
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Clip rate would be horrible especially on the URB’s and we would be releasing a lot of fish that probably wouldn’t make it. I’m not saying I’m against selective fishing in the fall I just don’t think it’s a good move to handle all those wild fish during warm river temps. It’s bad enough dealing with all the wild Coho


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I agree to a certain extent because a lot of boats play fish way to long for various reasons. We don’t do that, if you can’t land it fairly quickly your sh## out of luck. We use direct drive mooching reels, it separates the men or women from the boys.😎
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:43 PM   #21
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It's time to move to selective fishing!
The clip rate in my boat This year is running right about 35%. You better start marking fish if that's your plan.

Otherwise, the math doesn't work.

Roughly 600k Coho expected inside the CR mouth this year. Of those, I believe 70k are true natural origin?

If thats the case, the mark select fishery is harming more true natural fish than its helping. If I have to handle 30 fish to kill 10, there's a good chance I handled at least 2 true naturals. If I kill the first 10 fish to the boat and just 3 are clipped, pretty good chance I never encountered a true natural and now my gear is off the water.

The clip rate needs to be much better for Chinook and Coho before we go full mark select.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:19 PM   #22
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Welp, if the Fall jack count is any indication of what's to come, it's gonna be one hell of a run next Fall.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:05 AM   #23
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Welp, if the Fall jack count is any indication of what's to come, it's gonna be one hell of a run next Fall.
I keep hearing people say this, but the jack count is currently half of the 10 year average. Why do people seem to think the jack numbers are great, when they are only average at best.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:16 AM   #24
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I keep hearing people say this, but the jack count is currently half of the 10 year average. Why do people seem to think the jack numbers are great, when they are only average at best.
The operative word is "if."
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:17 AM   #25
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It's time to move to selective fishing!
Unless there's a re-opener, I missed the boat. I was going on my shake down trip trip Monday. I never thought retirement was so time consuming, See you in the spring, be safe have fun Grant.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:37 AM   #26
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My email from ODFW says 12:01 Thursday river is closed for chinook.
The Oregonian per Bill Monroe says 12:01 Friday.
So which is it?
The recommendation was to close as of today, but managers said that wasn't enough notice...

https://www.dfw.state.or.us/news/201...ep/090419c.asp
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:58 AM   #27
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Gonna be the first time in a long time I didn't wobble one up.

Maybe they will reopen if dam counts are good enough.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:02 AM   #28
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The operative word is "if."
Ok. You lost me. Jack counts are average at best, and somehow that’s going to lead to a great fishery next year? What am I missing?
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:12 PM   #29
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I posted this on another thread, but this thread is probably more appropriate. Personally, I still think the numbers are flawed. I'd like to see the math. What is the equation(s) used for for their impact data? Maybe there has been a link posted in the past with this report and I've missed it. I think a LOT of us have empirical data based on what we see or observe at the ramp and on the river. There are natural ebbs and flows in fish schools and just because yesterday it was a blood bath of fish caught...the next few days can be a significant dry spell.


Where is the math and the data? I'm really sick and tired of the smoke and mirrors that fish and game departments are using. Show me the proof; show me the data; show me the equation. If this is indeed a public department, that data should be publicly available. Maybe it is, but it sure is not listed or linked in the press releases.



*stepping down from soap box now...*


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Old 09-06-2019, 07:47 AM   #30
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Not happy they were in a position that they had to close it.

Am happy they left coho open.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:51 PM   #31
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I'm starting to believe Chinook will exceed expectations. Lots of Chinook still running upriver right now. I think dam counts should surge soon, hopefully before the run update.
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Old 09-06-2019, 08:57 PM   #32
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:59 PM   #33
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Yeah that! Great to meet you this last week CCW! Hope all had some good fishing and maybe some catching this season.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:38 PM   #34
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Is it just me? I feel like if the boundary was up around the tip of bachelor instead of warrior rock we would still be fishing ? Its apparent to me one fishery is crushing our quota!
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:39 PM   #35
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Hard to say Mike. The fleet would just shift up river and crush away near the areas close to some of our less pressured Honey Holes...Also just think, a lot of folks stayed in the Estuary based on the low expectations for Chinook. It could of even been worse as far as boat traffic and even more fish caught....I’m not sure there is something special about the deadline except maybe it’s the fish’s first exposure to lures/spinners since the Estuary....also maybe on the flood the cooler Lewis river water pushes up and helps spark a bite.
?????
I think the Bonny fishery takes its fair share of fish to...I believe the guide fleet pretty much works the deadline or Bonny with mainly private guys in the in between areas


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Old 09-09-2019, 09:48 PM   #36
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We could all put our pro trolls away and just troll spinners. ?????make it more of a challenge ... I prefer naked but hard to compete with the skateboards. They work good

Like I said before and some disagree the pro trolls have definitely turned the Deadzone into the HOT zone....Hot bites equal more boats, more positive posts, more social media, more boats equal more dead wild kings

I think other methods would work like they have in the past but not like skateboards.


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Old 09-09-2019, 09:55 PM   #37
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I believe and Mr Bill Monroe may have to correct me but I believe there was a group that wanted them banned from the Columbia River. (Pro trolls)


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Old 09-10-2019, 04:54 AM   #38
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Lots of comment about it, but nothing has any traction.
Not likely to happen anyway.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:57 AM   #39
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I believe and Mr Bill Monroe may have to correct me but I believe there was a group that wanted them banned from the Columbia River. (Pro trolls)


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Yeah, I heard that too. One thing for sure. I've seen salmon pulled out of some of the Dead Zone holes that I've never seen any fish being pulled from. It's not that the fish were never there. It's just that we've learned how to catch them.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:10 AM   #40
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I believe and Mr Bill Monroe may have to correct me but I believe there was a group that wanted them banned from the Columbia River. (Pro trolls)


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A year or two before the PT thing took off, a dear and departed ifisher was whacking them in the dead zone, well into October, trolling Pole Dancers and herring. Maybe we just needed to start trolling, PT or not.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:29 PM   #41
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Hard to say Mike. The fleet would just shift up river and crush away near the areas close to some of our less pressured Honey Holes...Also just think, a lot of folks stayed in the Estuary based on the low expectations for Chinook. It could of even been worse as far as boat traffic and even more fish caught....I’m not sure there is something special about the deadline except maybe it’s the fish’s first exposure to lures/spinners since the Estuary....also maybe on the flood the cooler Lewis river water pushes up and helps spark a bite.
?????
I think the Bonny fishery takes its fair share of fish to...I believe the guide fleet pretty much works the deadline or Bonny with mainly private guys in the in between areas


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I think the cool water from the lewis has a lot to do with it. Plus those are a lot of lewis river fish that stack in there. Ive easily seen over 50 fish caught in t in a 30min span. It does not seem fair to the folks that fish upriver. Davis, camas, bonny, ect. The guides are crushing fish every single day. Last year we got till the 12th. This year the 5th. Whats next? No time at all in sept? Of coarse it could all be solved by getting k-nets off the river. We do pay all the bills. But...once again we get the shaft! But theres another thread for that. . Still very frustrating.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:54 PM   #42
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I think the cool water from the lewis has a lot to do with it. Plus those are a lot of lewis river fish that stack in there. Ive easily seen over 50 fish caught in t in a 30min span. It does not seem fair to the folks that fish upriver. Davis, camas, bonny, ect. The guides are crushing fish every single day. Last year we got till the 12th. This year the 5th. Whats next? No time at all in sept? Of coarse it could all be solved by getting k-nets off the river. We do pay all the bills. But...once again we get the shaft! But theres another thread for that. . Still very frustrating.
It's a lack of fish. You can't blame guides or pro trolls, it's a lack of fish. You can't even blame gillnets anymore. It's a lack of fish for everyone.

The sport fleet has become much better at catching fish. Move the deadlines wherever you want, without more fish we are all gonna see shorter and shorter seasons.

We need to end the mindset of stealing and moving quotas between users and areas, and promote the idea of more fish for everyone.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:23 PM   #43
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It's a lack of fish. You can't blame guides or pro trolls, it's a lack of fish. You can't even blame gillnets anymore. It's a lack of fish for everyone.

The sport fleet has become much better at catching fish. Move the deadlines wherever you want, without more fish we are all gonna see shorter and shorter seasons.

We need to end the mindset of stealing and moving quotas between users and areas, and promote the idea of more fish for everyone.
Well now your talking politics of the fishing industry.Of coarse we need more fish. Our licence money and some of our tax we pay needs to be thrown at creating better habitat, better hatchery facility's. But with our current leadership its never going to happen. It was like pulling teeth to get kate brown to hold up to her end of the bargain with net reform. And we still have them in the fall! So..... with all that said, there's going to have to be some subtle changes to give us, that pay ALL the bills some sort of a decent season.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:35 AM   #44
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Default Re: Columbia closes to chinook below Bonneville

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Well now your talking politics of the fishing industry.Of coarse we need more fish. Our licence money and some of our tax we pay needs to be thrown at creating better habitat, better hatchery facility's. But with our current leadership its never going to happen. It was like pulling teeth to get kate brown to hold up to her end of the bargain with net reform. And we still have them in the fall! So..... with all that said, there's going to have to be some subtle changes to give us, that pay ALL the bills some sort of a decent season.
Come to a NOF meeting next March. Sit around the table with us, listen to the numbers, and throw out your ideas for "subtle changes" to lengthen seasons.

There are only so many impacts to go around.

The "subtle changes" this year were that we actually asked for FEWER Chinook days at B10 to protect impacts, and moved the Chinook harvest line from jyst above Tongue point, to Puget Island. That was all discussed last spring at NOF.

You can see how much those changes helped when we are fishing on smaller exploitation rates and fewer impacts.

You can make all the subtle changes you want. Without more fish it doesn't really matter.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:19 AM   #45
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Come to a NOF meeting next March. Sit around the table with us, listen to the numbers, and throw out your ideas for "subtle changes" to lengthen seasons.

There are only so many impacts to go around.

The "subtle changes" this year were that we actually asked for FEWER Chinook days at B10 to protect impacts, and moved the Chinook harvest line from jyst above Tongue point, to Puget Island. That was all discussed last spring at NOF.

You can see how much those changes helped when we are fishing on smaller exploitation rates and fewer impacts.

You can make all the subtle changes you want. Without more fish it doesn't really matter.
Pretty much spot on!! BTW the mouth of the Lewis fishery is somewhat of a bust as the area is too small and the flow from Merwin way low, then combine that with the Algae flow from Lake river, not good conditions! Dave
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:45 PM   #46
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Yeah more fish needed but that also means More fish intercepted by the northern fleet. They had cutbacks up there but a small percentage.

It Definitely would be nice to see more clippers in the URB department. SAB’s to.
Seemed to be plenty of clipped Tules around the Estuary although!!!!



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Old 09-11-2019, 07:02 PM   #47
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Unfortunately our fall chinook seasons are starting to follow along the lines of springer fishing. Next year we could be shut down even earlier. We can count on the lower river being closed during the best parts of the run. Similar to CR Springers right????? Just a lot pressure on Chinook. Every one wants a piece of .
I do NOT disagree with these closures either. We need to make escapement....Yes it’s up setting (early closures) but let’s just hope plenty get by the upper nets, dams, eastern pro trollers, eastern lions and hit the gravel


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Old 09-11-2019, 07:08 PM   #48
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SABs are done. They are going away from the Rogue stock and don't have a replacement stock last I heard. I only caught a couple of those fish this year. Pretty sad, that was a great strain that provided opportunity for sports and quality for commercials.

We need more fish, period.

I'd rather divide up a few million with the various commercial fleets, than fight over impacts on a few hundred thousand.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:23 PM   #49
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SABs are done. They are going away from the Rogue stock and don't have a replacement stock last I heard. I only caught a couple of those fish this year. Pretty sad, that was a great strain that provided opportunity for sports and quality for commercials.

We need more fish, period.

I'd rather divide up a few million with the various commercial fleets, than fight over impacts on a few hundred thousand.
Please don’t forget that 2015-2017 were some of the most unproductive ocean years seen. Raise all the fish you want but the ocean was a desert and could not and would not support that biomass. 2018 and 2019 were/are better but we are still in an unproductive ocean cycle. The fact that we have some coho (I hope the 600k+ to the CR) shows that ocean conditions is the major factor. Chinook are 2 years behind and I believe the jack count could show an increase for next year. BUT...we are not out of the El Niño and a blob 2.0 has been observed. The ocean is changing and it looks like not for the best.


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Old 09-11-2019, 07:50 PM   #50
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Please don’t forget that 2015-2017 were some of the most unproductive ocean years seen. Raise all the fish you want but the ocean was a desert and could not and would not support that biomass. 2018 and 2019 were/are better but we are still in an unproductive ocean cycle. The fact that we have some coho (I hope the 600k+ to the CR) shows that ocean conditions is the major factor. Chinook are 2 years behind and I believe the jack count could show an increase for next year. BUT...we are not out of the El Niño and a blob 2.0 has been observed. The ocean is changing and it looks like not for the best.


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I get all that.

But if we don't put SOMETHING into the ocean and at least give it a chance, then nothing is what we'll get back.

I say we give as many a chance as possible.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:48 AM   #51
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I get all that.

But if we don't put SOMETHING into the ocean and at least give it a chance, then nothing is what we'll get back.

I say we give as many a chance as possible.
Dumping more smolts with poor survival genetics into an inhospitable habitat is akin to tossing money out the window. I would much rather have my tax money used to upgrade hatcheries to produce more effective smolts with better fitness potential and better in-stream and estuarine habitat for natural and hatchery smolts. Regardless, there is still a carrying capacity in the big blue so maximizing survival fitness in the releases is far more important than dumping more unfit fish into the system.


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Old 09-12-2019, 09:18 AM   #52
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Before Wrestlemania 729 comes to blows over methods vs hatch fish vs more fish, lets go to 8th grade biology.

Populations are as good as the weakest link. No matter if they die in freshwater due to a zillion possible factors, or the estuary, or the ocean, or harvest gets more and more efficient in using allocation. Dead is dead. You are only as good as the weakest link.

What we need is better habitat, less harvest, more smolts, better ocean conditions.

Until we see another solar burst from the sun to hammer earth with radiation (My favorite excuse of why fish populations were so strong for a while), things will cycle. Maybe we should dump a MOAB in the sun every year or two to get the returns we all want.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:03 PM   #53
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Dumping more smolts with poor survival genetics into an inhospitable habitat is akin to tossing money out the window. I would much rather have my tax money used to upgrade hatcheries to produce more effective smolts with better fitness potential and better in-stream and estuarine habitat for natural and hatchery smolts. Regardless, there is still a carrying capacity in the big blue so maximizing survival fitness in the releases is far more important than dumping more unfit fish into the system.


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Hasn't our hatchery system been improving and refining for decades? When will those fish be deemed acceptable or fit?

Sorry, but with the garbage that government spends our money on, I'll never consider more hatchery smiles a waste of my tax dollars. They can blow all my tax money on fish as far as I'm concerned.

I get everything your saying. But reducing hatchery plants and allegedly improving the product has been the plan the last 30 years, and where is that taking us?

Opportunity is drying up.

As different fisheries evaporate, more pressure is focused on the fisheries that are left. We then pound those fisheries into oblivion.

We need all the fish we can get, so I'm sick of hearing excuses of why we can't make anymore.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:58 PM   #54
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Seems California hatchery Kings are surviving or is it just dumb luck with migration habits in better conditions??
I don’t really follow the Sac or Klamath but isn’t it good down there this year. ??? I believe Cali has an aggressive hatchery program in place?????

Losing SABs is horrible as far as back home goes. Terrible terrible
What’s next?!!!


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Old 09-12-2019, 06:02 PM   #55
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I know the ocean in Northern Cali is probably cooler and there should be plenty of upwelling!!!! That wind down there doesn’t quit. Always blowing. Tough area to work and transit thru


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Old 09-12-2019, 08:32 PM   #56
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Hasn't our hatchery system been improving and refining for decades? When will those fish be deemed acceptable or fit?
Hatcheries are for the most part using antiquated technology from the 1950’s and 60’s. Deferred maintenance is the norm and facilities are deteriorating annually. You want more fish released and returned improve the hatchery systems. The tribes have been the only ones to improve their hatcheries and the evidence of its success is quite impressive. But again and I repeat what I’m positive you have been told by ODFW , without a healthy productive ocean along with a healthy riparian and estuarine system it is all for naught. The carrying capacity of the ocean has been at all time lows since 2015. The fact that we have any fishing is remarkable. Honestly, with as dismal as the summer steelhead run is there should be no fishing at all. Still not sure how that passed the federal filter.

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Old 09-13-2019, 07:55 AM   #57
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[QUOTE=Clamman;16112241]Dumping more smolts with poor survival genetics into an inhospitable habitat is akin to tossing money out the window. I would much rather have my tax money used to upgrade hatcheries to produce more effective smolts with better fitness potential and better in-stream and estuarine habitat for natural and hatchery smolts. Regardless, there is still a carrying capacity in the big blue so maximizing survival fitness in the releases is far more important than dumping more unfit fish into the system.



I agree the hatcheries could be cleaned up and kept up to provide more effective smolts. The purpose being... more viable fish. I know the holy kings are the favorite choice for many but we have to see the total picture IMO. That being that there are too many predators (cormorants, sea lions, whales to mention a few) taking precedence over the fish released. Then, the ocean blob had an affect and effect on forage fish and therefore on the product (fish) we cherish. Of course the northern fishermen love to consume our releases too. The point being, managers have to think and make decisions on the total life cycle.

It's a cycle we are not new to dealing with and as far as I know unpredictable to a point. However dealing with predictables like the increase of predators have been essentially ignored. Until there is a hand on predation more fish only feeds them, not us.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:27 AM   #58
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[quote=fishin"G"man;16113161]
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Dumping more smolts with poor survival genetics into an inhospitable habitat is akin to tossing money out the window. I would much rather have my tax money used to upgrade hatcheries to produce more effective smolts with better fitness potential and better in-stream and estuarine habitat for natural and hatchery smolts. Regardless, there is still a carrying capacity in the big blue so maximizing survival fitness in the releases is far more important than dumping more unfit fish into the system.



I agree the hatcheries could be cleaned up and kept up to provide more effective smolts. The purpose being... more viable fish. I know the holy kings are the favorite choice for many but we have to see the total picture IMO. That being that there are too many predators (cormorants, sea lions, whales to mention a few) taking precedence over the fish released. Then, the ocean blob had an affect and effect on forage fish and therefore on the product (fish) we cherish. Of course the northern fishermen love to consume our releases too. The point being, managers have to think and make decisions on the total life cycle.

It's a cycle we are not new to dealing with and as far as I know unpredictable to a point. However dealing with predictables like the increase of predators have been essentially ignored. Until there is a hand on predation more fish only feeds them, not us.
Exactly My point. Actually very accurate Points in this thread. Our hatcheries are not in good shape at all. Very poor filtration systems which cannot keep smolts alive long enough to mature to be released. Without some kind of broodstock system the fish will never get passed the birds. we all know wild fish have a much better survival rate. As they dont swim so close to the surface . More hatchery smolts, more food for the birds! Its gonna take some serious $$ to get things back to where we once were. But our current governments do not seem to be concerned. we seem to be very low in the budget. We all got spoiled in the 2000-2014 era. Those were some good days ! How do we get it back ? I know there are groups that work very hard. Cca, Nws, Nof, ect. Need more participation for sure.
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:51 PM   #59
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Hasn't our hatchery system been improving and refining for decades? When will those fish be deemed acceptable or fit?

Sorry, but with the garbage that government spends our money on, I'll never consider more hatchery smiles a waste of my tax dollars. They can blow all my tax money on fish as far as I'm concerned.

I get everything your saying. But reducing hatchery plants and allegedly improving the product has been the plan the last 30 years, and where is that taking us?

Opportunity is drying up.

As different fisheries evaporate, more pressure is focused on the fisheries that are left. We then pound those fisheries into oblivion.

We need all the fish we can get, so I'm sick of hearing excuses of why we can't make anymore.
The Tribes have this take also, lets try!! my opine also Dave
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Old 09-14-2019, 02:02 PM   #60
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With the latest counts maybe they’ll open it back up. 🤑🤑🤑🤑😉&#x1f 943;🇺🇸
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