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Old 11-20-2015, 07:59 AM   #61
bllelk
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Default Re: Spinner Tips - Share Them Here!

There are a lot of good tackle suppliers, fly shops and Mom and Pop little stores along the road. Doesn't hurt to spread your dollars around. We are all part of the same community.
Here in Elkton, I buy my beer at the UR market, owned by Singh, and my breakfast sandwiches at the Elkton Cash Market, owned by Carl.
Haven't tried any of West Linns stuff but I will this Winter when I get my projects closer to being done. Got the Umpqua right across the street and live in Anglers Acres on Steelhead Way. So the testing lab is pretty handy.

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Old 11-20-2015, 10:13 AM   #62
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Anyone ever try a Nightmare theme for spinners.
Here's my attempt today.

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Old 11-20-2015, 10:25 AM   #63
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Anyone ever try a Nightmare theme for spinners.
Here's my attempt today.

https://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/50...ailcam_411.jpg
That'll hunt. Kinda zombie-lookin which I like!

My version of a nightmare spinner uses feathered hooks my buddy Chue ties up for me combined with our white silver blades and teflon bodies.
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Old 11-20-2015, 10:30 AM   #64
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I like it. I thought about adding feathers & will twist up a few variations before the winters show up.
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Old 11-20-2015, 10:44 AM   #65
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There are a lot of good tackle suppliers, fly shops and Mom and Pop little stores along the road. Doesn't hurt to spread your dollars around. We are all part of the same community.
Here in Elkton, I buy my beer at the UR market, owned by Singh, and my breakfast sandwiches at the Elkton Cash Market, owned by Carl.
Haven't tried any of West Linns stuff but I will this Winter when I get my projects closer to being done. Got the Umpqua right across the street and live in Anglers Acres on Steelhead Way. So the testing lab is pretty handy.
I give some business to Arlene's when I'm in Elkton, they are usually good for a river report for a non-local. The test lab is a lot further for me, so it helps to have a first hand report before making the trip.
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:04 PM   #66
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I give some business to Arlene's when I'm in Elkton, they are usually good for a river report for a non-local. The test lab is a lot further for me, so it helps to have a first hand report before making the trip.
With only about two hundred residents, the businesses here in Elkton are really dependent on folks who stop and spend a few $. The owner of Arlene's is also a guide and those Guys need good relationships with folks from out of town as well as the store/restaurant owners. If you're really early, the cash market has been opening @ 04:00 to service the loggers.
The Elkton Community Education Center also known as the butterfly pavillion or Ft. Umpqua, has their bathrooms open 24/7.
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:34 PM   #67
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Never really knew before what ECEC was, good to know they have restroom facilities. I would head that way if there were fish to catch, was through there a couple weeks ago and didn't see much going on in the Tyee area where I normally fish. Have they not arrived yet or did they shoot on up the river?
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:35 PM   #68
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Never really knew before what ECEC was, good to know they have restroom facilities. I would head that way if there were fish to catch, was through there a couple weeks ago and didn't see much going on in the Tyee area where I normally fish. Have they not arrived yet or did they shoot on up the river?
I would expect with the river at about 10 ft. today they will be moving. That doesn't mean there aren't a few more to pass by. I'm a newbie in this area so I've no experience to here to draw on.
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Old 11-21-2015, 08:45 PM   #69
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Ok now I understand what some were saying about Matzuo sickle hooks being brittle. I bought a package of 25 to try and I have built a few spinners with them. Today I pulled one out of the pack and when I tried to sharpen it like I always do when building a spinner, I couldn't get my file to bite into the steel of the hook at all. When I tried to close the open eye it broke off before the steel even started to bend. This is only one so far out of 25 but clearly this hook had a completely different temper than any of the others I've used. Guess I'll have to go through the rest of them and see if there are any more of these duds in the package, they will be easy to recognize because of the crazy hard/brittle temper but so far I'm not impressed.
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Old 11-22-2015, 06:51 AM   #70
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To my knowledge there were lots of complaints about brittle hooks on these a few years back that for the most part were fixed a while ago. I use them by the thousands and currently am aware of only one Matzuo sickle siwash that has an issue with being brittle and that's the eyes of the 1/0 size in bulk which is how I buy them...not sure if it also effects the 25 packs. Apex is aware of it and (reportedly) resolving it. The bad 1/0's show themselves immediately...like as soon as you try and close them they break so they are weeded out and tossed...the good ones are fine. I've never received any complaints about these hooks whatsoever.
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Old 11-22-2015, 11:00 AM   #71
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What is a good size/weight for a body to start with the torpedo style spinners with size 3 and 4 french blades??
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Old 11-22-2015, 11:05 AM   #72
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What is a good size/weight for a body to start with the torpedo style spinners with size 3 and 4 french blades??
If the question is size then it would depend on what they are made of (brass, lead, etc). The bodies we use are brass so a #3 body goes with a #3 blade and so on. Our brass #3 body weighs aprox 1/5th oz and the #4 weighs about 1/4 oz.

Some blades (even if the same style) will provide more lift than others, because one will be slightly differently shaped than another and/or thicker/thinner but the above is a place to start in terms of weight.
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Old 11-22-2015, 11:36 AM   #73
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Very nice looking spinner, rangr !
Architecturally perfect.

As others have stated above, several elements need to come together at the same time to be effectively fishing a spinner.

Simply stated, for the best presentation :

1) Achieve and maintain *"thump".

2) Stay near the bottom

*"thump"
Some blades will not telegraph thump to the rod tip very well.
They will still spin at the optimum RPM and catch fish.
With these I read rod tip deflection more than thump.
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Old 11-22-2015, 01:38 PM   #74
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Ahh now we are getting to the heart of the issue of spinner "thump". Like West Linn says, not all blades are created equal. When I receive an order of blades the first thing I do is bring out the dial calipers and take measurements of what I consider the critical areas. If they vary from what I consider ideal (and they almost always do) then I modify them to fit my specs. These modified .025 blades have far more thump than Fishermans Shack or .032 Pen Tac blades. Never used R&B so can't compare them. DirectDrive you are correct that a blade may be turning at the optimum rpm but if you can't see/feel it then you are fishing blind. For me, it is critical that I can tell what the spinner blade is doing at all times.

Finally got a chance this morning to get some spinners wet for coastal fall chinook. Fished alongside about 20 other guys and gals who were using a variety of spoons, spinners, flies, and bait under a float. The 59 cent spinner (in a more tidewater appropriate color) with Matzuo sickle hook was 2 for 2. I kept one 15# and released a smaller one. 1 other fish was caught by a fly fisherman.


I find that #5 blades work well with either 1/4 oz or 3/8 oz body, today I was using 3/8oz for casting distance. For #4 blades the 1/4 oz body is ideal for me, for #3 blades I use 1/8 oz body, but these are for summer steelhead. For winter steelhead I use #4's and #5's. For chinook I use #5 blades.
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Old 11-22-2015, 03:15 PM   #75
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Very nice looking spinner, rangr !
Architecturally perfect.

As others have stated above, several elements need to come together at the same time to be effectively fishing a spinner.

Simply stated, for the best presentation :

1) Achieve and maintain *"thump".

2) Stay near the bottom

*"thump"
Some blades will not telegraph thump to the rod tip very well.
They will still spin at the optimum RPM and catch fish.
With these I read rod tip deflection more than thump.
Architecturally perfect? No.

Coho especially, will torque that hook right off. If the eye isn't closed TIGHT, you WILL lose hooks. Put a swivel between the body and hook. THEN it will be perfect.
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Old 11-22-2015, 03:24 PM   #76
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Architecturally perfect? No.

Coho especially, will torque that hook right off. If the eye isn't closed TIGHT, you WILL lose hooks. Put a swivel between the body and hook. THEN it will be perfect.
1) Use a Rosco Interlock size 10

2) Who fishes for the lowly coho ?
(they are there to entertain the immigrants)

3) You know you can't whistle.


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Old 11-22-2015, 04:08 PM   #77
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1) Use a Rosco Interlock size 10

2) Who fishes for the lowly coho ?
(they are there to entertain the immigrants)

3) You know you can't whistle.



I LOVE fishing for the lowly coho. And I'm a local.............sort of.

I actually whistle quite well. I'm very musically inclined....... sort of.
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Old 11-22-2015, 05:11 PM   #78
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Very nice looking spinner, rangr !
Architecturally perfect.

As others have stated above, several elements need to come together at the same time to be effectively fishing a spinner.

Simply stated, for the best presentation :

1) Achieve and maintain *"thump".

2) Stay near the bottom

*"thump"
Some blades will not telegraph thump to the rod tip very well.
They will still spin at the optimum RPM and catch fish.
With these I read rod tip deflection more than thump.
It shouldn't be necessary to read tip deflection to indicate spinner blade thump in sizes 3 and up. If you can't see/feel the blade then it's time to change brands.
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Old 11-22-2015, 07:02 PM   #79
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To whomever asked me about the green body color...blue fox has two shades of green bodies, both standard green, just a paint variation I suppose. I like the slightly lighter green, not a lime or chartreuse for sure.


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Old 11-22-2015, 07:09 PM   #80
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To whomever asked me about the green body color...blue fox has two shades of green bodies, both standard green, just a paint variation I suppose. I like the slightly lighter green, not a lime or chartreuse for sure.


MH
That was me. I use a bright, almost fluorescent green at times for winter steel and sometimes chinook in estuaries. just curious what other shades of green are working for others.
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Old 11-22-2015, 07:57 PM   #81
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Architecturally perfect? No.

Coho especially, will torque that hook right off. If the eye isn't closed TIGHT, you WILL lose hooks. Put a swivel between the body and hook. THEN it will be perfect.
I have to admit, I'm confused. What is so magical about coho that allows them to pry steel hooks from me? I have caught a lot of coho in my life and have never had a single hook disappear. If this has been an issue for you then maybe you should re-consider some of your equipment choices. I am very familiar with the coho "death roll" and have lost plenty of fish to it, but never, and I mean never, has a coho or any other fish somehow twisted or torqued a hook from me.
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Old 11-22-2015, 09:24 PM   #82
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When I receive an order of blades the first thing I do is bring out the dial calipers and take measurements of what I consider the critical areas. If they vary from what I consider ideal (and they almost always do) then I modify them to fit my specs.
What are your modifications?
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:37 PM   #83
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I have to admit, I'm confused. What is so magical about coho that allows them to pry steel hooks from me? I have caught a lot of coho in my life and have never had a single hook disappear. If this has been an issue for you then maybe you should re-consider some of your equipment choices. I am very familiar with the coho "death roll" and have lost plenty of fish to it, but never, and I mean never, has a coho or any other fish somehow twisted or torqued a hook from me.

OOOhhh, easy there big fella...................

I should have put the word AND in my post.

AND if the hooks aren't tight you will lose the hooks.

There are multiple reasons to put a swivel between the hook and MANY lures. I meant to include several reasons but phrased it poorly, for that I'm sorry.

It is pretty common knowledge that a swivel is very helpful in keeping the death roll fish from tearing out the hook. It has ALSO happened to me that closing the previously brittle Matzo hooks haven't closed tight enough. This small gap, accompanied by the death roll, CAN lose a hook. It has happened several times to me, with coho and steelhead.

Like I said, I should have put an AND in that sentence because a swivel LIMITS the amount of torque a fish can put on the hook. MOST spinners include this swivel. I actually have lost VERY few coho, despite the death roll. Having a swivel has limited torque loss. They are not "magical" as you put it. Just squiggly .

So,

Don't take it personally. I wasn't attacking you. Opinions were solicited and I simply gave mine too. You are obviously successful so I don't see me changing your mind. But IF you have "lost plenty" to death rolls, you might want to CONSIDER changing YOUR gear a bit. I don't lose many to death rolls, as the fish have no way to leverage the hook , due to a swivel. It sound like you have researched many details of your spinners. This might be a helpful tip. A good angler is always open to "new" ideas. I learn from everybody I fish with and ideas I've read here on Ifish.

Tight lines!!
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Old 11-23-2015, 05:58 AM   #84
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KGeo - I owe you an apology. My previous post was rude and I'm sorry, that's not how I am. Putting myself in time out now.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:15 AM   #85
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in winter I prefer spoons to spinners... cast up and across and swim them down through your target area slowly.. they should wobble side to side not spin.. deep and slow but always moving.

keep colors simple the fish don't care much

gami siwash and go small vs large... throw factory hooks away trebles snag on everything.

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copper, chrome, gold.... super simple
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:25 AM   #86
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Did you notice the title of this thread Rob?



Quote:
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in winter I prefer spoons to spinners... cast up and across and swim them down through your target area slowly.. they should wobble side to side not spin.. deep and slow but always moving.

keep colors simple the fish don't care much

gami siwash and go small vs large... throw factory hooks away trebles snag on everything.

rvfshr
little cleo
steelies

copper, chrome, gold.... super simple
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Old 11-23-2015, 12:56 PM   #87
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Fished three different rivers this morning, finally found a biter. 19 lb hen on the first cast in the third river. Sickle hooks are still 100%!
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Old 11-23-2015, 02:37 PM   #88
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What about scents? Does anybody recommend putting scent on the spinner? Are there any good reasons for why you would or wouldn't use scents?
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Old 11-23-2015, 03:11 PM   #89
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Flutter! Flutter!
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Old 11-23-2015, 05:46 PM   #90
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KGeo - I owe you an apology. My previous post was rude and I'm sorry, that's not how I am. Putting myself in time out now.
No timeout necessary. I wear my big boy pants when I post.



Nice looking Nook!!
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:06 PM   #91
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What about scents? Does anybody recommend putting scent on the spinner? Are there any good reasons for why you would or wouldn't use scents?
I've used a small sticky felt pad like you'd use on a picture frame, on the inside of the blade to hold scent. Haven't kept track if it works better than scentless. Wouldn't think it would hurt if visibility is an issue and the spinner works as it should. Maybe one of the more scientific of the ifishers has some data they'd share.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:31 PM   #92
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https://www.ifish.net/board/showthrea...951&highlight=

This thread (link above) is an iFish blast from the past. Rangr's spinner was a reminder... walking stick-bodied spinners have been known to catch a few fish In this case a lower Sandy River monster from 2008. Check out the closeup and note size of hand vs size of fish.

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Old 11-24-2015, 08:58 AM   #93
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What about scents? Does anybody recommend putting scent on the spinner? Are there any good reasons for why you would or wouldn't use scents?
That's a great question. Since a spinner is all metal it isn't going to absorb scent, and any scent you put on is going to wash off quickly. What I did was tie on a few wraps of chenille onto the hook, essentially making the body of a streamer fly, and soak it with scent. I used mostly black but any color could be used.

Did the scent make a difference? Not that I could tell. Chinook seem to be smell oriented so I still try it occasionally when fishing for them because maybe it will make a difference on that one fish that just can't make up his mind...

So why are scents so popular? Lots of very knowledgeable people consider the use of scent a necessity, yet I and others I know haven't seen any benefit from using them. The difference of course is that scents are very effective as an additive to bait, where we are using metal lures, and it is my opinion that there is a fundamental difference between what causes a fish to take a bait or attack a spinner. Bait's attraction is obviously food-based, but a spinner's attraction is uh, well, I don't know why they bite spinners. Maybe out of anger, irritation, a show of dominance, who knows? Seeing it as food or prey probably has a part also. Maybe it's like dragging a string in front of a cat, it triggers a chase response and they just have to go for it. Whatever the reason, the fish has made its decision to take the spinner while still several feet away. The fish sees it and takes it. No sniffing around, no gently mouthing it, they just see it and and react, so scent doesn't have really play a part here.

Anyway, all this is just my opinion, curious to hear other opinions too. Itwould be a nice addition to our bag of tricks if we had a way to use scent effectively with spinners.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:39 AM   #94
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I view scents as either positive or negative. Negative scents are those from your body or odors like gasoline, bananas(lol) or what have you. Positive scents would be all the usual suspects you can buy from your local tackle shop. By far the most important aspect of scents, imo, is to remove negative scents from your lures. I made a serious effort to eliminate negative scents this last chinook season and my catch rate increased dramatically. In practice, this meant:
1) I cleaned my spinners after each use
2) I bought a new tackle box and only put spinners back in it when they had dried out (my old tackle tray had gotten funky from having wet spinners sitting in it for a couple years)
3) I wore nitrile gloves while fishing

I also experimented with positive scents but didn't find it made any noticeable difference, although there's a whole world of scents out there that could be tried.
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:39 AM   #95
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Some years ago we fished with David Johnson. As many of you know, he makes sure everything is perfect on his boat and washes everything in lemon joy. Not long after that my Son started guiding steelhead trips in Hells Canyon. I told him about David Johnsons penchant for cleanliness as he was fueling up his diesel truck and boat.
Long story short, he didn't take dad's advice, and caught steelhead. And still does this day. I can't believe it. But last December I got two on a trip with him on the Salmon. No lemon joy, dirty hands and all. He does consistently fish the same lure though. Me, I've got a big bottle of you know what on my boat. I need all the help I can get.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:44 AM   #96
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I recently updated my spinner "how to" video that I made for my webstore to include the "break off" method of finishing the wraps. Note: There are a few annotations in there that you may not see unless you click on the "youtube" logo at bottom right and watch it on the youtube website.

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Old 11-25-2015, 07:42 PM   #97
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Rangr and Ni!, awesome responses. Some good stuff to think about. Like, why does the fish strike at anything? Out of hunger or aggression? Thinking about it, it kinda doesn't make much to sense to apply scents to spinners. I have always been putting scent on my spinners as if I had to for some reason. Hasn't helped me at all. Although, after reading this thread, I've not been using spinners very well anyway (just started fishing this summer).

I have to say, I have really enjoyed reading this thread. There's some great info here. Thanks everyone!
I have almost always been using bait so far and it hasn't done me any good. And bait is such a pain to deal with. I love the idea of taking nothing more than a bunch of spinners and walk the river as far as I can. Next time I go out, I'm going to do just that. After reading all these tips, I think I can get good at spinners, simplify things, and have more fun doing it.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:21 PM   #98
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As this thread suggests, I have started reading Jed Davis' book. I am somewhat familiar with reading the water, but what does he mean by a "well-defined river"?
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:59 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojo de pescado View Post
As this thread suggests, I have started reading Jed Davis' book. I am somewhat familiar with reading the water, but what does he mean by a "well-defined river"?
I interpreted that to mean a river that has distinct riffles and pools, one that follows the classic progression from riffle to throat, pool, tail out and starting over at riffle again. Rocky projections, boulders and other features can creat definition as well. Each of these features offer a distinct area for fish to lay, and obviously then a place to focus your fishing attention.

The opposite type of water would be where there are no riffles, no rocks, little variation in depth or current. There may be fish there but it is difficult to predict just where they are, consequently you waste a lot of time in fishless water.
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:02 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojo de pescado View Post
As this thread suggests, I have started reading Jed Davis' book. I am somewhat familiar with reading the water, but what does he mean by a "well-defined river"?
I interpreted that to mean a river that has distinct riffles and pools, one that follows the classic progression from riffle to throat, pool, tail out and starting over at riffle again. Rocky projections, boulders and other features can create definition as well. Each of these features offer a distinct area for fish to lay, and obviously then a place to focus your fishing attention.

The opposite type of water would be where there are no riffles, no rocks, little variation in depth or current. There may be fish there but it is difficult to predict just where they are, consequently you waste a lot of time in fishless water.
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Old 11-26-2015, 06:20 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robolize View Post
Rangr and Ni!, awesome responses. Some good stuff to think about. Like, why does the fish strike at anything? Out of hunger or aggression? Thinking about it, it kinda doesn't make much to sense to apply scents to spinners. I have always been putting scent on my spinners as if I had to for some reason. Hasn't helped me at all. Although, after reading this thread, I've not been using spinners very well anyway (just started fishing this summer).

I have to say, I have really enjoyed reading this thread. There's some great info here. Thanks everyone!
I have almost always been using bait so far and it hasn't done me any good. And bait is such a pain to deal with. I love the idea of taking nothing more than a bunch of spinners and walk the river as far as I can. Next time I go out, I'm going to do just that. After reading all these tips, I think I can get good at spinners, simplify things, and have more fun doing it.
Scent on a slow trolled spinner from a boat MAY help.
Scent on a swinging, weighted spinner is not needed.
This is a fast, aggressive presentation and there is no time for sniffing/nibbling.
I use a Hi-Vis chartreuse line and that doesn't matter either when swinging brass.

Humans will instinctively swat at a bee in their airspace.
Some steelhead will instinctively swat at an intruder entering their area.

Number one rookie mistake is standing in one spot and flogging it with hardware. Book it.
We call these "mailbox guys". They stand in one spot so long, they start getting their mail delivered to that location.
Groups of mailbox guys will even start a new zip code.

Cast, move, cast, move.....rinse, repeat.
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Old 11-26-2015, 06:58 AM   #102
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Default Re: Spinner Tips - Share Them Here!

Well put DD. That's why there are flies named "Intruder". Kudos to the originator of this thread. There's been some great info shared here and that was the purpose of this website.
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Old 11-26-2015, 12:06 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectDrive View Post
Number one rookie mistake is standing in one spot and flogging it with hardware. Book it.
We call these "mailbox guys". They stand in one spot so long, they start getting their mail delivered to that location.
Groups of mailbox guys will even start a new zip code.

Cast, move, cast, move.....rinse, repeat.
I like that term. Usually the fish bite a spinner on the first cast. If the mailbox guys do hook a fish 2 hours into their efforts, it's very likely a fish that just entered the hole.

There is one time when I think scents may make an important difference. That's when the water's dirty. In water with less than 2 feet of visibility, the fish may not be able to hone in on the spinner so well. By using scent, I think the fish's ability to find the lure is enhanced, as is the fish's desire to hit on the second or third cast. When the water's dirty, I slow down, size up, use scents, and fish slots where the fish have to concentrate when they move upstream.
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Old 11-27-2015, 07:00 AM   #104
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Default Re: Spinner Tips - Share Them Here!

I posted a copy of this educational thread on the tech tips and keepers forum!

Also, I'm going to put it on the front page!

Hey, does anyone recall a company long ago, by the name of "Lightning Strike" spinners? I used to love them! They were weighted spinners, and I used them to successfully fish the coastal Fall run in tide water.

I remember one day, going very near the ocean, and just holding one in the current. I had so much fun catching and catching and catching! But, those were the days...
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