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Old 07-24-2019, 12:26 PM   #1
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Default Boat barn build...

Thanks to all the Ifisher's who have given me good advice on this project, and recommendations on contractors. I'm having Econofab build me a 30x60 pole barn, with 16' eaves to allow for 14' high doors in the front. Thought I'd share a few photos of things as the building goes up!

I was able to tackle some of the grunt work for this project myself (and have the sore back to prove it!) Took down an old shed, cleared several good size trees, dug out root balls, cleared a bazillion blackberry vines and roots, relocated my water line, and scraped and leveled down to mineral soil. Here's how the build site looked a week ago, with 24 yards of recycled concrete waiting to be spread for the base:



After I got the soil compacted and base layer down, it was time to start bringing in 1 inch minus recycled/crushed concrete for fill and a base for my eventual poured concrete slab. My build site sloped a lot more than I expected once the topsoil was removed, and I ended up needing 75 yards of fill to get it somewhat close to level. Could not have done any of this work without my mighty little 18 hp Yanmar tractor.





On Monday, the crew from Econofab arrived to start boring post holes. All the holes were bored 5' deep, with the rear/side post holes being 16" wide and the front 3 being 24" wide. All of them had a concrete base 6-12" deep poured in the bottom of them to reduce sinking. Then everything ground to a halt while we waited for the county inspector to come out and approve our holes. Yep, there is a guy who works for the county who has "approving holes" as part of his job description.



On Tuesday, the crew was able to get to work setting posts. All the rear/side posts are set in 3/4 minus gravel, with the front 3 posts where my doors aer going to go set in concrete per county code. The front three are massive... the corner posts are 6x8s, and the center one is 6x12.



Today they are working on putting up the base boards and side girts. I'm going to need to bring in more fill to bring my base up to final grade, and I'll probably top the crushed concrete with a 1" layer of 3/4 minus gravel to reduce dust.

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Old 07-24-2019, 07:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

Take a loan and do a concrete floor.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

If not a floor when they put up your skirt boards before they side it pour a footer the same height as your floor and finish it. Probably won't match your finish floor but close enough. Will keep all the kridders out. Remember the footer where your overhead doors are going to be 5/8's to 1 inch lower. Then pour floor when you have the funds.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:51 PM   #4
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Bunch more got done today. Skirt/rat boards at the bottom, and wall girts mostly done.







I'm having my man door put in at the front of the building. Easiest access w/ my property layout, and down the road I intend to build a 10'x10 covered area there with a concrete "patio" and fish cleaning station









I ended up just not having time to bring the pad up to it's final grade before Econofab got started. I drove a reference stake in my high corner to represent the height I wanted my skirt boards to be, and Econofab is working off that to establish the desired final grade. On that high corner, once I finish dumping and spreading stone my pad will be about 1" above the surrounding grade, and even with the bottom of the skirt boards. It's pretty much level already over there, but I'm going to need at least another 25 yards or so of material to get the low corner up.



I will be pouring a 4" pad next year, but finances don't allow it right now. Next priority for me is running power to the building, and that is probably going to require paying the local PUD to install a new transformer and run a new overhead line. I am trying to do a lot of the grunt work on the building to save $$, so I'll probably run my conduit/wiring and install outlets and fixtures myself over the winter. I'm tempted to tackle the concrete slab myself, but I have zero experience with finishing slabs.

The crushed concrete fill I am using packs down super dense, but there are so many fines in it that it kicks up a dust cloud every time the wind blows. I have read that it will settle out over time, but I was thinking a gravel top layer might be a good idea for keeping that grit out of my boat/tractor/truck motors.


Good suggestion on pouring small concrete footers for the overhead doors. They set the doors anticipating the concrete slab, so everything is jacked up 4" higher than the base pad. I was thinking about just using a 4x4 post as a sill under the overhead doors, and keeping it in place w/ rebar pins and gravel ramps, but it would be just as easy to pour a 3 or 4' wide footer for the doors and then building up the gravel in front/behind it. Even if I had to rip it out when I pour the big slab, I can always recycle the concrete chunks into fill material underneath my side patio.


Speaking of cridders, one thing I am very glad my builder asked me about Monday was "rat flashing". Basically an L flashing to go under the base of your metal siding, to block up the holes created by the ribs. It wasn't standard with Econofab buildings, and at my foreman's suggestion I called the office and had them add it (only $175 bucks to add it to my 1800 sq foot building).
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

if ever going to add a shed roof to the side of it. now is the time to put in the header support for it. cheap to add it now.


might be just as cheap to run the power underground. and put in a 220 breaker and also a 30 amp as it can come in handy. just run a 10 gauge wire down from the box and put in the receptacle.


consider some windows high up to let light in. and run outdoor motion lights inside so you arent turning on lights when you just pop in for a time. and dont have to go back in to turn off the switch when you drive something out.


i put plugins every ten feet and use most of them. beats extension cords.


if you can afford it sheet the roof. saves a lot of hassle from the condensation turning into rain inside.

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Old 07-25-2019, 10:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

More good suggestions, keep em' coming. I'm going to need to have someone install gutters for me, and I need to direct the water down slope away from the building. Anyone have thoughts re: dry wells vs. just building some swales/depressions for it to percolate into groundwater in? I know I am going to have issues with leaves and doug fir needles from the neighbors trees on on side... will put screens over the gutters, but worried about that stuff plugging up a dry well.

Re: condensation... I am having basic vinyl encapsulated fiberglass batting (R-7) put up in the roof and in the walls to help control it. I went back and forth on sheeting the roof... wanted it, but it pushed the budget up quite a bit. Cost-wise, it boiled down to either getting a 30x48 building with sheeting under the metal for the roof, or a 30x60 building with insulation+steel roof. The extra 12' means another 350 sq foot of floor space (1440 vs 1800) and I can have my boat and truck both fit inside one bay, with the boat hitched up and ready to go.

I am having 2' clear poly panels put in along the top of both side walls to help with light. They were pretty inexpensive I skipped sliding windows down lower in the walls for now, I figure that is another project I can tackle myself down the road. I want to cover the lower 8' of the inside walls with OSB and paint it white, to protect my building siding and the insulation from damage. Was thinking I'd just surface mount conduit and power boxes to it.

I like the motion detector light inside the building idea a lot. Going to put a couple of them in, I think. One over the inside of the man door, and one in the center front between the two roll-up doors.
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

probably too late now- but if you were going to panel the inside, using commercial girts, instead of normal girts ,would make that easier. I had Econo Fab do that when they built my boat barn
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

Thanks for taking us along on the build. Exciting process, fun to watch the progress. You will have lots of envious ifishers when that is done.
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salmonfever View Post
probably too late now- but if you were going to panel the inside, using commercial girts, instead of normal girts ,would make that easier. I had Econo Fab do that when they built my boat barn
Yeah, another option I talked over with them. It wasn't very expensive (I think it would have been a $2k upgrade vs. standard), but it seemed like I could frame out the walls myself over a weekend this winter for a few hundred bucks.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

for the motion lights i used the grey outdoor ones(cheap) with three bulbs 100 watt led. some have to have one regular bulb to set the motion light on and off for some reason. the leds dont draw enough i guess.


having 4 overhead doors make it a drive through and much easier with 4 vehicles getting them in and out.



where i do work i have two of those retractable extension chords hung from the ceiling.


mine is 30 by 80. i have motion light near the entance and two more around the middle of the unit which gives me enough light even at night to get around fine . but have my master swtiches by the entrance door which is close to the main overhead i regularly come in. so switch on switch of. i have 4 switches for the lights that arent the motion ones which of course have a switch but stays on all the time. one outside motion over the entrance door. and one switched over each of my 4 overhead doors outside. whichh seems logical but i never use them.


i keep a dim light on near a window on a night time timer and a radio on 24/7. this keeps thieves away as they cant be sure someone isnt inside.


i have a loft so i have a beam which is nice so i can have a chain hoist or use a comealong to lift a motor or back end of a boat.


i also added the shed roof on one side and it is wonderful for putting things under

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Old 07-25-2019, 10:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

Progress today... Trusses arrived, and the crew spent the day doubling them up and getting them ready to raise, plus doing a little framing on the front and back ends of the building.




The building will have 18" overhang on the sides... they got the lumber cut for this as well. You can see it under the trusses here.





They double the trusses up on either side of the posts. They paired them with chunks of post in the middle, along with 2x6 tabs that will help support the roof purlins. They will raise them up into position with a neat little winch/pulley system, then attach to the posts.





The cut out the rough opening for the man door, so now I can at least pretend I am going in and out of the building where my door will eventually be. Photo gives you a sense of how much more I need to build up the pad in that low corner.






None of my local stone options deliver dump truck loads on the weekend. I may have to rent a 7 yard dump trailer and make a bunch of trips back and forth Saturday.
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Old 07-26-2019, 07:02 AM   #12
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

You can wet the hell out of the recycle and then hit it hard with a small vibratory roller from a rental yard, or at minimum a vibra plate. The roller would be the way to go. If its dusty from just the wind blowing, must not have much compaction. Yes it will get a little better until its drove over and the surface is broken up a little more from tires rolling on it. It's great fill because of the cost factor. You may all ready have this in your plans, as far as lighting, I'd keep in mind access to the fixtures down the road because of the height. Reaching the light without renting a scissor lift. My shop that I had at our old house, I had the lights suspended down to reach with a 12' ladder,,,gregg

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Old 07-26-2019, 07:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

Thanks for the build-along, Threeweight!
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:39 AM   #14
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I was able to get 1 pass over the most recent layer of concrete grindings w/ a compactor before Econofab got started. One big lesson for me is that just because I have the skills/desire to DIY something, and it *appears* I have time to do it, I need to budget in a 25% to 50% time inflation rate just to random "stuff" happening.

The workers have been spraying it down every morning with my garden hose, and that seems to both be reducing the dust and packing it down more and helping it settle. I'm planning to bring in another 25-30 yards of material myself tomorrow, then spread it w/ my tractor and run a rental compactor over it Sunday.

Good suggestions on the lights... I am going to go with LED's instead of fluorescent to reduce the "burn out" and future replacement issues. I've looked at commercial high-bay lighting designed for shops, but they seem ridiculously expensive vs. just installing 15 or 20 of the 5000 lumen LED shop lights you can buy for $20-25 each from Costco or Harbor Freight.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:10 AM   #15
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Make the gutters drain into something you can access to clean. Mine drain into dry wells under the drive way in the front. 2of the 3 overflow. I’ve tried to back flush them with little success. I’ve dug the back ones up to find the drain plugged with dirt. Cleaned them out and all good for now. If I could get a do over I’d drain them on the ground.


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Old 07-26-2019, 10:30 AM   #16
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Were your dry wells originally set in gravel/drain rock, or soil? I've been wondering how long it would take for a dry well to get plugged up.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:32 AM   #17
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Your plan to not use high bay lights is a good one. I spent the money for them but they don't really offer any advantage that I can tell. And they warm up, brighten very slowly. This was before the days of LED fluorescents so was my best alternative at the time.

The dry well comment really hits home for me. Has been a constant battle for me. I set my drywell in about a foot of river rock so I tried to do a very good job during installation. They silted up after about five years and now need to be roto-rooted every so often. When the ground is real wet after weeks of rain, the water table rises and my drywell has never worked very good at all. Finally gave up, drain the drywell overflow into a cistern now, put a submerged sewage pump at the bottom of the cistern, then pump that over a hill and down into a grassy area that eventually drains downhill into a creek. Working much better and the grassy downhill slope does a nice job of naturally filtering out any 'bad stuff' (though this approach does need power once the dry well and cistern fills up). Even though it uses a pump, the cistern approach is simpler, since is easy to clean out the cistern and keep the rain drains working all the time.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:10 PM   #18
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Do yourself a favor when done: double check with the county and make sure your building isn't listed as several hundred feet bigger than what you are being taxed on..... I thought the taxes was a bit high---you can figure the rest out lol.

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Old 07-26-2019, 12:20 PM   #19
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What kinda boat are you parking in there?
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:21 PM   #20
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instead of a drywell, you might try the infiltrater chambers for the drain field. They are more compact ,and easier to install , than a traditional drain field
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:39 PM   #21
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It will be home for my current boat -- Hewescraft Ocean Pro 220 hardtop... the hull is 24'7 actual length, and on the trailer it stretches about 31-32' from the tongue to the prop on the big Honda. The top of my radar dome is about 11' off the ground.

I went w/ the 16' eaves and 12' wide x 14' high doors to leave myself room to upgrade down the road I'll also be storing my camper and big pickup in it during the winter. Eventually, if I don't need the full length I may wall off the back 12' and build a mezzanine for storage on top and an fully insulated wood shop under.

I'll look into the infiltration chambers. With the slope of my property, my bigger issue is directing water away from our house foundation/septic, and slowing it down, rather than trying to dry areas out (at least around the new shop).
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Boat barn build...

Looks great! Econo-Fab built my shop 12-years ago and it’s been one of the best investments I’ve done.

I do wish I would have heard about the rat flashing back then though! I do have plenty of critters finding their way into the shop, unfortunately.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:39 PM   #23
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Great Thread.
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:59 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDYCOHO View Post
Looks great! Econo-Fab built my shop 12-years ago and it’s been one of the best investments I’ve done.

I do wish I would have heard about the rat flashing back then though! I do have plenty of critters finding their way into the shop, unfortunately.
Never too late for rat flashing pretty simple
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Never too late for rat flashing pretty simple


Put some pt 2x2 along the outside edge of the rim boards.


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Old 07-28-2019, 11:29 AM   #26
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From the description, rat flashing is just a basic "L" flashing like roofers/gutter installers use, inserted under the siding so it butts up tight against the bottom. It's attached to the treated baseboards w/ the same screws that hold the siding on. The only mildly tricky part is the corners of the building, where flashing needs to be cut to overlap properly.


Thought about doing it myself, but at $50 bucks for materials and a day of my time vs. having Econofab do it as they install the siding for $175, I decided to let them do it.


My crew did not work Friday, they got assigned to another job to help raise the trusses on another shop. I'm traveling for work till Wednesday, so no new updates on the build for a while.


On wiring, anyone have thoughts on conduit vs. hiding Romex behind an OSB wall? I'm in deer mouse city out here, so I am leaning towards surface mounting conduit+metal boxes, but it would be a lot cheaper/faster to run Romex through the posts w/ plastic boxes inset into the OSB walls. My other thought was running MC armored wire, but wondering if it would look cheesy from sagging in between wire clamps.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:40 AM   #27
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It's all about the purse and how much is in it. I like ridged vs EMT, but it cost more. The one thing I did when I wired my shop with ridged is I left a couple extra pull strings in a few runs coming out of the main for future needs. I ended up changing a few things around a couple years later and glad I was able to run some new wire thru the conduit with out pulling the existing wire first or adding a new run of conduit,,,gregg
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:35 AM   #28
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Got back into town yesterday afternoon and took a few pictures of the progress. Gone a little slower than I'd like, but the other barn project being built simultaneously with mine has apparently turned into a bigger headache than anticipated due to building site complications. My crew got pulled off my job a couple of times to assist with it. Econofab's owner wants mine done by Friday, but the foreman this AM said if they work the weekend they may be able to get it done Saturday, otherwise looking like Monday.

All the major framing work is done now. Trusses are up, roof purlins are up, overhangs are framed, and door openings are framed.



The crushed concrete I am using as a base has continued to pack down and settle as the workers have walked on it and run their skid loader over it. I already knew I'd need another 25-30 yards to bring the base up to final grade, but now it's looking more like 30-40 yards. My little tractor and front end loader has a lot more work ahead of it! Good news is it only runs 8 bucks a yard (plus a $65 delivery fee per dump truck load).



The budget did not allow for a full OSB decked roof, or full R-13 or 15 fiberglass insulation in the walls. Instead I had them install the cheaper R-7 radiant barrier insulation in the walls and under the roof. It's not much for heat retention, but it should alleviate condensation issues in the roof, and provide a vapor barrier to protect any wall insulation I may ultimately put in from condensation off the sheet metal siding. I don't intend to keep the entire shop heated in the winter, but I may build a platform/mezzanine in the rear 12' or 16' of the building and then wall of and insulate a workshop area underneath it. If I ever want to insulate the main area, I think I would install additional framing and put a white metal ceiling along the bottom of the trusses, and then do blown-in insulation above it.



30x60' with a 16' high ceiling feels pretty big now, but I keep telling my wife it's going to shrink a lot with the boat, 1 ton pickup, and truck camper in it.



One thing I liked about Econofab's buildings are the full 16" overhangs (24" is an option). I know it's going to be a wasp magnet, but it makes the building look a lot nicer and should help manage rain/drainage issues down the road...



My wife and I went back and forth on the siding color for a long while. I wanted a dark forest green, she wanted this blueish-gray color. She turned out to be correct, I think the color looks fantastic. She now wants to paint the house to match the barn! The roof will be white to help w/ summer heat.

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Old 08-01-2019, 11:58 AM   #29
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Couple random thoughts/questions...

As it packs, I am liking the recycled concrete more and more. It is already basically a solid surface with a 1/2" layer of pea gravel sized grains on top. I am thinking of bringing the pad up to 2"-3" below final, then putting down 7 mil plastic, then adding the final surface layer. I'm probably stuck with gravel at least for this winter, and this would seem to reduce the risk of humidity coming up the gravel. With the 1" minus grinding, there are no jagged chunks in the concrete.

Thoughts?

So it turns out MC wiring isn't sufficient for anything exposed below 8'. It either needs to be behind the wall/posts or in heavier conduit. I've never messed with rigid EMT conduit, and I don't really want to invest in bending tools and ruin a bunch of expensive tubing to learning how to do it. Any thoughts on using PVC conduit in a shop/barn like this instead?
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Old 08-01-2019, 06:19 PM   #30
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Your right about shrinking, mines 30x64 and one of these days it's going to get wider by 16 feet. 40x60 would be ideal.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:30 PM   #31
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Just about ready for my RV
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:45 AM   #32
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Looking good. I screwed up when I built my shop. Didn't go tall enough and didn't plan ahead for a 4 post lift. Been regretting it ever since. I do all my own wrenching and as I get older working on the floor and with jacks sucks! I also made the mistake of putting a loft in 1 corner. The wife has it packed full. Turned into a collect all that is a pain to get things in and out of and there is stuff in there I cant even get to!
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:53 AM   #33
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They knocked out most of the wall covering and barrier insulation, poly light strip up high, hung the man door, and got most of the rat flashing done yesterday.







Here's a shot of the rat flashing at the base of the siding.

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Old 08-02-2019, 10:12 AM   #34
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Looks awesome !! What's an Econo fab shop this size run ?
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:08 AM   #35
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With the options I added (poly light strips, the giant doors/bays, barrier insulation in roof and walls, overhangs, a few other little things I am forgetting) it works out to about $31k (materials+labor). Had I gone with the full meal deal I would have liked (6 windows, a 3rd 10x12' roll up door at the left rear, thicker insulation, commercial-style wall girts, full OSB roof/tar paper under the roof metal) it would have been around $45k. Materials were around $16k. Permits (so far) have added another $800 or so. Getting a new powerline/meter run to it is going to hurt $$$ wise and push up the cost significantly. A 4" slab re-enforced w/ rebar is likely to add another $7500-8500 based on estimates I have gotten.


They don't do any site prep, electrical, concrete, or gutter/plumbing work, all they do is the actual barn construction.


I went with fewer options to keep the costs down and get the 1800 sq foot building "bones" I wanted up and done right, figuring a lot of the little things like windows and interior wall framing/covering I can come back and add later. The biggest heartburn was skipping the OSB roof decking, but Econofab says radiant barrier insulation under the metal should take care of any potential condensation issues.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:46 AM   #36
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Really nice build. It appears you have a lot on your hands and I better take the Hewes and look after it for the next 6 weeks. I'll bring it back clean and with a few more hours on it.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:22 PM   #37
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I finally got Wild Card wet for the first time in 3 months today, just running her to very all systems nominal before heading down to Ilwaco tomorrow night. Barn should be finished tomorrow, and I intend to take a break and put some salmon in the freezer before I get to work finishing the gravel work.

Econofab got the roof mostly done on Friday, as well as flashing the overhangs. Those 2x6 braces are there to correct some bow in the posts as everything settles and dries.





All that's left for them is to finish the flashing, frame and install the overhead doors, side the front, then install the corner trim. I'm going to need to find a guy to do the gutters (want to have my house redone as well), and get the PUD out here to advise on the best way to run power to it.
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:34 AM   #38
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Just a suggestion...is this going to be bird proof? Birds love to sit on the rafters and poop on everything below them, especially in the winter. When I built my "boat cathedral" (which is an all metal 24 X 24), I used the excess metal to put on top of the cross bracing to make sure that if they got up there, they couldn't poop on what's below. I store my travel trailer in my dad's open shop, and before putting plywood on the rafters the top of it looked like a guano factory.
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:33 AM   #39
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Nice, very very nice........... thanks for sharing
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:10 PM   #40
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Good for you looking for low cost options and reaching out.Guys out there always come up with ideas to pass along. I had a Mezzanine in my shop to store all kinds of things. I had stairs going up to it so the kids, they were young back then, could safely go up and bring down Holiday decorations. I didn't want them climbing a ladder brining things down. I bought Pallet Racks from a guy that sells used ones. The same ones HD uses in their stores. He had a warehouse full of all different sizes and heights, lengths. They were pretty cheap too, I don't remember the cost, but way cheaper then buying wood framing, plus the load bearing on them is much higher then wood. I used 2x12' s for the deck up top. Probably could of used 3/4" plywood. You can stand them side by side, and end to end and get the needed sq footage you want. I had 4 sets, spaced a couple feet apart and end to end to make the 10' x 25' mezzanine, and had about 7 1/2' overhead space under the deck to set up a work bench and some cabinets. Build time using those is so much faster then framing wood,,,Gregg

this is the only pic I could find, you can see the stairs in the back, I added a handrail later
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