Ifish. What are we doing here? 2003

[[email protected]]

I seem to get a few complaints about the editing done at ifish. It's mostly from a select group of people, who then share their opinion and it spreads within fishing party boats.

Anyone who wants a board without editing, I have plenty of them to share with you, if you want to me to e mail them to you.

I'd be more than happy to show you how they turn out, (and how long they last!) without editing.

Really ugly! :smile: More fun? Maybe, if that's what you are in to.

Here's the story that I've seen from a select few, over the five years I've been doing this.

We have to consistently edit out the same small group of people. Most people, when edited, say, "Oh! I get it. OK! It didn't feel good, but I guess I understand..." Or even nicer! I've been edited. I know how it feels, but if it is for the better of the group, I go along with it. (kicking and fighting. :smile: )

A certain group of people can't handle it.

Then they get mad, and start firing back. Then, they form a circle of close friends who they get to side with them by telling part of the story, and write us letters that say, "Look how many people think how I do!" :smile: Look, Jennie! Look how many people think you are doing an awful job!

Then... the nasty letters start coming.

Anyway, the story goes on, but it always go exactly the same way. It's as predictable as the days are long.

We moderate to keep this place civil, decent, and with the manners that you don't see around much, anymore. We filter out words that you can hear on television. I don't like hearing some words on television that I hear now. I think it's an insult to our intelligence, and I think it shows how far into the gutter our society has gone.

I also don't like sexual inuendos, nor potty talk on the board. Sure, I may giggle over a joke on these themes in a boat, but on ifish? In print? Nope. And it's my site, so guess what? I can enforce that, and I will.-- and I won't back down. I'd rather quit, and if it started being OK, you can bet that I will quit. It just wasn't in my game plan, and I think that backing down shows that my morals are failing too. They aren't... yet! Thank God for each passing day that I bite my tongue in front of my kids, rather than exclaim something I've heard in their schools, or on TV.

I don't allow advertising. I reserve that for those that sponsor ifish. I feel good and right about that. I sell advertising at good prices. I've been advised to charge much more by marketing companies. I've been told, "Jennie! Wake up!" --but I choose, instead, to make it a good deal for the people on ifish, because I like ifish clients to be happy and very satisfied with what they get for their buck. And, I will continue to be so devoted to them, that I will bend over backwards to show them I care. So, if you get edited for posting a web address that you think is just helping ifish, think about it from where I stand. I'm not picking on you. I'm standing up for someone who paid an honest buck for a service. Think about who pays for the software who runs this board. The sponsors.

So, that's how I stand.

I will continue to do my very best to make the people, however, that are most important to me happy on ifish. The member. Without the members, there would be no ifish, and there would be no sponsors who would want to pay for ifish.

Is ifish fun anymore? I sure hope so. However, fun isn't really what I had in mind when I started it. I mean, groups of people are fun, in and of themselves. However, I started ifish to form a group of people who all have such a passion for fishing and our rivers and streams that we could stand up together as one, and make a difference.

If ifish ended today, I'd feel like Ifish made a serious step towards that goal. We have done trash pickups, salmon tosses, members have posted about meetings and vastly increased their attendance! We have become more aware by reading about our fisheries, as written by the ODFW, and the NW Steelheaders. We have been aware of what is going on around our rivers, streams, and how the Government around us reacts to our presence! We've been thanked, as a group, by serious leaders! Specific members have used this target market to get things done. Ramps fixed, bills passed, hatcheries saved! I'd say we should be proud! Each and every member! Without your input and presence, there would be no ifish, nor any chance at any improvement!

But, are we done? Not in my mind! The increasing membership only makes me giddy and has me laying awake some nights thinking of the possibilities of what could be done! Do you even realize? There aren't as many posting, active members as there are listeners. But, baby, we have people listening! Thousands a day, and we have a message to send out! What will that message be? It's up to you!

Again, I hope that it is fun for you, and yes, it saddens me that someone would question it's value. But, the same advice I gave to Shane, I can listen to, myself. Not everyone is going to "love" ifish. I do see, over and over, how people get way too wrapped up in the relationships and the odd dynamics that the internet delivers them in. It can get pretty crazy! I've been there, too!

However, as I have always said,

"I'm going to pick one thing and believe in it, and work on it, and strive to make it the very best, with all of my heart and soul.
(That one thing, in this circumstance, is www.ifish.net.)
Along the way, I will gain many friends, and a few enemies."

Knowing that I did my very best, and that the decisions I made during this process were the best of my ability, I will remain proud of both friends and enemies.

The day that I stop feeling like I've made the right decisions on ifish, is the day that I walk away. I still feel good about what I do here. I feel like the rules are in line with what it takes to make this place work.

And that, boys and girls, is all I have to say, bout that.

Have a good day--

Jen

[ 11-15-2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: [email protected] ]

[Carver_OR]

Jen, Well said. Don't you just love the self employed life.

Pat

[elkaholic]

Jen, I'm 1000% behind you, your site and ethics. Keep up the great work and forum. Wouldn't ask you to change a thing, wouldn't stay if you did probably either. Nothing nasty here.

Cheers to you and the mods!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WaterDog]

Funny how some don't see ifish as "Jen's HOUSE". Her house, her rules. Don't like it? You know where the door is. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[salmurai]

[Rocky]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[TheRogue]

Jen...

doesn't surprise me it's a select group that whines and complains, that's just life. Any community is like that, pick up any small town paper, and it's always the same people complaining and writing letters to the editor. These are the same types of people who launch recall efforts when they think they've been slighted or embarrassed; you're dealing with the same types, I suspect.

Please realize that the VAST MAJORITY of us are extremely pleased and grateful for what you have created here in the Ifish community. Don't let a tiny group of people get you (or the mods) down. If it gets to the point where it really bugs you, just ban them from the site. They aren't worth it.

My .02

TR

[finnman]

Jen, no matter what anyone says this sight is a wonderful resource and has done many things to improve our passion. Hold your head high [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] and long live ifish.

Finnman
Wade Finnegan

[Fshklr]

Jenny,
Well said and glad to hear your continued commitment striving to make ifish a great community for all and the GREATEST fishing site in the entire northwest. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
Here's to you (and Mods) for the continued success with ifish and the many, many, many things it and ifishers have accomplished so far and will also continue to do into the future.
I have watched other BB's but do not participate because of the "off the cuff" attitudes they have and encourage at times.
Thanks again for the hard work and devotion!!
Dan

[Small Fry]

That's why Ifish is still the best site on the web!!!!!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] My hat is off to you Jennie

Thank you!

[fishbait]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[ampersat]

I enjoy ifish, otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time here.

Jennie, thank you for ifish. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication in keeping ifish a great site. Thanks to all the mods for their hard work as well.

[seadog]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Thank You!

[jet]

Yes... thank you

Jet~~~

[skein]

"We don't do that here."

We don't use cuss words to describe.
We don't use racial or gender slurs.
We don't use sexual innuendos to make us seem cool.
We don't fall in the same trap that television and so much of the print media has fallen into.

And we don't litter our rivers, or snag our fish, or steal or poach or ....

"We don't do that here." Music to my ears.

It's kinda nice to be famous for what we "don't do." :smile:

Ya gotta love this place!

Skein

Very well said Jen [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Private-Aye-Fish]

That's what keeps it civil. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[fisheromen]

Jennie, thank you SO much for doing such a great job facilitating the creation of this community -VERY WELL DONE.

Steve

[ketchumfast]

Jen: You are doing a great job! Please, PLEASE, keep up the good work. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[glowball]

Do you tell the boss that you don't feel like doing that today? Nope. And you're the boss so we must do as you say.

[El-Kabong]

Jen,

Thanks for keeping this place running. As to the people who are giving you grief. Ban them. I venture to guess that the rest of us won't miss them.

EK

[David Johnson]

Well said [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Keep up the good work and stick to your guns :smile:

[River Ranger]

Right on jen,Thanks for all your work! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
R.R.

[Chromaflage]

Jen - udawoman!!! Keep up the great work and stick to your principles! I'm glad that there are those like you will! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

ORS

[[email protected]]

If I tell the boss that I don't wanna, then the boss just says, OK, but you have to do it later, along with all the rest of the stuff you would do otherwise. So, it's double duty!
:smile:

However appreciative I am, I didn't intend this to be a thank you thread. I just wanted to tell you why the rules are the rules.

I feel badly that some folks feel that Ifish has singled them out, or treated them unfairly. When I or the mods edit someone, it's not personal. It becomes personal if feelings get hurt, or they feel it's not fair.

I don't dislilke someone for the way they talk or act. I don't dislike anyone for trying to use ifish to boost their business sales. It's normal. It's natural. But it's against the policy that we have in place.

I just have rules for ifish, and I wanted to tell you why.

Thank you for the nice comments, and I'm glad some of you feel that it's so great! However, there are those out there, that are lurching at the bit, wishing they could say, publicly, why they are NOT happy with ifish.

I don't want this thread to further anger those that might be feeling differently. I want to make it right for as many members as I can.

I know that moderating is a slippery slope, and that we can't always be totally fair. But, dangit, we do try. We honestly do.

PS (edit) I'm getting letters from people who think I am talking about them.. I'm not! This is random. I'm not upset at any one at all. So, don't think you set this off. No one did. I just have spare time today, and it's collective thoughts. :smile:

Jen

[ 11-15-2003, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: [email protected] ]

[Clown Mouth]

Well said Jen!!

[iwanttofish]

Very well stated keep up the great work Jen.

[iwanttofish]

Very well stated keep up the great work Jen.

[fishnbus]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Jen, I'm one of those who greatly appreciates the information, updates, how-to's and the sense of community. Sense of community is something that many of us no longer experience. I spend a lot of time reading the posts because I can't always be out on the stream. I truely appreciate all that you and the moderators are doing. Thank you to the sponsors who pay the freight and thank you to all who post and share your insight, knowledge and experience. Dennis

[Mad Mikey]

Personally I think the large part of ifishs' success is due to it's decency and clean cut nature. The latter of which IS accomplished through editing but people tend to gravitate towards GOOD things too IMO.
If we need to get our fill of nasty stuff THAT can be done elsewhere, but not here.
Thanks Jen. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

Jen

I for one do appreciate Ifish and the people who post and contribute.
To those who believe they are picked on for one reason or another I say take a closer look from an objective view and try to see things from all sides like the moderators have to. I have posted many opinions that have been contrary to what the majority believes or believed at the time and have NEVER been edited for being controversial. I have been edited but always for the correct reasons and never to dissuade me from printing my views. This is because of the highest qualities displayed by Jen and her top-notch moderators. If personal dislikes entered into any of the editing at Ifish I would have been the first to notice� trust me.

As to what IFISH.NET can become I say to everyone that it is only limited by our imaginations and our good intentions. This community as a whole as well as Jen in particular can do anything we set our minds to as long as we are honest with ourselves and true to our beliefs. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Jen, do not look back at the people who complain and whine but look forward to what you want to accomplish and what you want IFISH to stand for. :smile:


Regards

[perfect drift 1]

If you spend time on other sites, hunting or fishing, you soon see after posting a few times that ifish is clean, fun, informative, new folks are noticed and welcomed. These are some of the few things why I enjoy being part of ifish. The politics are held to a minumim, usally fishing issues. I also enjoy the different views on issues, it makes for a well rounded forum, the lack of cussing and arrows being thrown, makes for relaxing reading. Then there are the tips and the items for sale. For me, this is a place to relax and spend a few minutes by myself. This I feel very strongly about. Jen, I trust as long as it is your site, this will be the way it is. Lift my hat to you, keep your strength !!

[Radtech]

Jen,
I visit the site daily. I have picked up some very helpful tips, lots of information and think the group is GREAT. Thanks KW

[Sirprize Sirprize]

Jennie - This is the only site that I just can't help coming back to. Thanks for staying with your values, integrity and vision.

[feisty's wife]

Jennie, I personally love the site as it is and think you are great....keep up your ethics, dear lady

[steelheadslayer]

Great thoughts Jennie; This is the one site out of four that I look at least once a day. The others just don't feel 'homey'. :whazzup:

Between you and the reasonable mods, this site is the best there is. Stick to your reasons for starting ifish and like others have said. Ban those who try and 'disgrace' ifish. But truth be told, they are only disgracing themselves. :blush:

Just a big THANK YOU to Jen and the mods.

[ 11-15-2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: steelheadslayer ]

[SKP]

Ifish is the best on the net! Hey, I've been edited before. I posted a non-ifish.net sponsor (a fishing guide) web site. Was it right that I got edited? You bet, I didn't have an understanding of the rules at that time. I posted in innocence.

I even just this week asked if another ifisher's post could not be edited, because it would help all ifishers. But the answer was no, and I knew the answer was no before even asking. And I very happy with that, and actually agreed with it, if you know the post, read my response a couple days ago. I'm glad that ifish editors are not being wishy washy. We have a great site that we know that we can come on, bring our kids on, and learn the tricks and gadgets that help us catch fish, that help us grow as people! The item that was posted about is a great item, but they don't pay a dime to help sponsor ifish. And I totally agree with the response given by one of the editors.

Thank you Jennie for a great site!

Thank you editors and moderators for keeping it in the real spirit of ifish.net!

I think we need an ifish.net magazine. Every couple of months, the best posts and the best pictures published in a magazine. Jennie, you should check it out. There are the local magazine's and publications out there that give stories that are just too good to be true or give false or late or exagerated fishing reports. This site in print would be fantastic.

I'd love to have a magazine come to my mail box, say 6 times a year, with the best of ifish from the previous couple of months. A magazine where you can buy ifish gear, stuff, gadgets, and the like. Like the story of the Rogue boat that went over Rainie Falls. And the story of Jennie and Bill catching a ton of salmon this week. And the story of the elk at sea. And the story of.....well this could go on and on and on. And the story of the 75 pound salmon. And.........

All with pictures!!!!!!!! Sign me up!

My two cents.

SKP

[Streetwalker]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[KChookem]

Hi Jennie and Moderators...

A big swig of Pepto to each of you! I continue to be amazed at your patience, tolerance, and ability to strike a fair balance. I'm pleased you are willingly to do the unpleasant moderator task, and I regret that you can not enjoy your site 100% of the time.

When you get down, please think of the 6,000+ subscribers, and compare that against the very, very few (less than 20?) who will not follow very common sense, and liberal, guidelines. When I find myself in your predicament, I think of Ricky Nelson's words in his song 'a Garden Party'... "you can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself".

As part of the 99.99% who appreciate rules, and attempt to follow them, thank you for your effort.

[AuntyM]

I haven't been here from the beginning, but I have been here a good long time. I get to view Ifish from a more objective "neutral" position. In general:

The large majority of members WANT a moderated board. Back when Ifish and Jennie had to get tough and implement tougher standards of conduct, this board simply took off! If you don't think that is a big factor, then you don't visit the other boards like I do! Everytime the other boards got lax and didn't enforce standards, the participation went down. Every time they did the "get tough" thing, participation increased first, and then shear numbers go up. Lurkers and newbies usually only take the time to join when they feel comfortable.

Jennie is right, that when there is NO moderating, it goes downhill fast. She CAN give you links to other boards that were semi successful at one time and are now totally "toilet" because of a lack of moderation. Sure, a few controversial threads will rack up big numbers, but the over all impression folks are left with is negative and they just stop coming around.

From a business standpoint, she did the right thing and continues to do so. Want to know why she gets so much respect from me? Because it ISN'T self serving. Jennie and Ifish have had an amazing impact on improving EVERYONE'S fishing prospects, personally AND politically.

I find it shameful that some of the things that happen to Jennie behind the scenes keeps occuring because she has stuck to her guns and kept the standards here so high.

You individuals that still lurk here and try to cause her problems behind the scenes, let me tell you and your pathetic wannabe somebodies. You have done NOTHING to be proud of, nothing positive and your karma will continue to get worse the more negative you become. Me and thousands of other people will be here to shore Jennie and Ifish up after every attack.

Classic good guy vs bad guy! Jennie, WRITE A BOOK! Something tells me you are going to have a happy ending girl and this could be a best seller!

[1pump]

I find it shameful that some of the things that happen to Jennie behind the scenes keeps occuring because she has stuck to her guns and kept the standards here so high.

You individuals that still lurk here and try to cause her problems behind the scenes, let me tell you and your pathetic wannabe somebodies. You have done NOTHING to be proud of, nothing positive and your karma will continue to get worse the more negative you become. Me and thousands of other people will be here to shore Jennie and Ifish up after every attack.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Here here!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]


Ifish's detractors can crawl back to whatever cyber-cesspool they came from. They're not needed or wanted, and they won't be missed.

If they have the guts, they can e-mail me and name the time and place, and I'll be there (either me or I'll send Aunty M :grin: ).

[Buck]

Hit the wrong button earlier... Jen - the reason I even spend the time to log on to IFISH is because it is moderated and suitable for everyone, including my daughter who is just learning about the facinating world of fishing. Have courage and manage this site as you see fit. It works for me.

[duckcall]

This is a place where character counts. It is a breath of fresh air. Thanks

[CAGEY]

Atta girl Jennie, tell em where to get off. Keep up the good work.

[letsfish]

A couple of years ago the site got ugly(in my eyes), there was an air of bitterness, and some posts were down right rude and uncaring.I didn't have any trouble no longer logging on or checking in . Month later I came back, ifish had some of the old faces but the trouble makers were gone and so was the ugliness. It was fun again and just as informative.
I remember before taking that sabbatical mentioning on a thread( I think someone was camplaining about moderating) that ifish is like a party at Jennie's house. You obey the house rules and you'll enjoy the party... if not you can always leave...
but don't throw a stink if you are shown the door.

Good points Marsha. Ifish has impacted my fishing life tremendously! I've met some really nice people here and have had many good times. You have to admire Jennie for the sheer tenacity she has exhibited to keep ifish the way she intended for it to be [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
The bottom line still is and always has been that ifish is FREE...it costs you absolutely nothing to log on here and enjoy everything ifish has to offer! The best advice is that if you don't like it here or ifish isn't your cup of tea then don't come here! It's that simple really
I think Catch and Eat made an excellent point :shocked: in another thread where he said don't go to some other forum and take cheap shots at ifish then come over here and act like everything is cool...that's hypocritical. If you are unhappy for what ever reason with ifish then maybe ifish isn't for you.

[FishSniffer]

I'm addicted. If I can't get out to fish I'm usually following the "What's goings on" on iFish.net

Great website.

[Gun Rod Bow]

You seem to be asking for opinions so...

I have thanked you and the mods for their work, still do.

I appreciate standards, and much prefer order to chaos.

This boards popularity is proof enough that the way you do things works.

I have been bugged by straight up political correctness or "over-fairness" by the mods at times. But, given the choice, I would prefer to err on the side of minimizing confrontations.

I really do appreciate and enjoy open debate and discourse, it can be a wonderfull way to see another view, or really think about the foundation of your own. But pretty much avoid LIG since the discourse erodes too quickly.

There are plenty of places on the web someone can go to find their comfort level no matter how high, or low the standards.

It really comes down to, this is Jennie's board, your idea, your creation, your product.

You regularly ask for opinions, return e-mails, and obviously are a sensitive soul that doesn't like fights. Thats all cool.

If you (Jennie) are pleased with the result, then you are doing it right.

This is the only place on the web that I feel good about posting pictures of my kids.

[[email protected]]

:smile:

Not really asking for opinions. I just felt a "state of the union" coming on, last night, so I stated it.

Believe me, if I asked for opinions, this thread would be a whole lot larger, and more controversial. This "sensitive" soul doesn't want that. :smile:

All I wanna do is fish, ya know?

Jen

[ 11-16-2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: [email protected] ]

[Day Late]

Each day after checking me e-mail my next click is ifish.net. Know why? Because I think it is a wonderful site made possible through Jen's efforts and those of a lot of fine people serving as moderators, etc. I've learned a tremendous amount even though I'm 58 years old and have been hunting and fishing all my life! Keep up the wonderful work and don't let those few who never like to comply with the rules of behavior even though they said they would when they signed up as members. God bless you and stick to your guns!! :smile: :smile:

Day Late

[Navigator]

Jennie:

I have said this before, but it bears repeating.

Thank you (I know, not a thank you thread. Just edit it out if you like. ).

You have achieved your mission with this site. I appreciate the standards and principles.

Jim

[Gun Rod Bow]

Oh, in that case, thanks for the report on the State of the Union :blush:

I guess you can consider my post "The State of my Opinion" :grin:

[ 11-16-2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

[Deepslayer]

Amen Jen! Well thought out and well written as always. Thank you for letting me into your I fish home.
,Ed

[TarponSlayer]

Well Done!!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
Keep it going

[greenbuttskunk]

Jennie, You've got the toughest job around. Many of us in your spot would'nt last a month. I respect that you want to hold on to the moral standards you are close to, we all should. Keep up the hard work, anyone with and ounce of repsect and commom sense appreciates and understands your position and the decisions you have to make so often. keep plugging along!
[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] GBS

[o-mykiss]

Jennie,
I think you are doing a great job, such a great job, I didn't know a select group of people was displeased. Well, you can't please them all!!!
Keep up the great work.

[[email protected]]

GBS: Plugging along... What a great idea! I'll go do that! The water is up really high, but the color is fairly good. Plugs! Yip! You hit on an idea! See ya!
J

[Plum Crazy]

Jenni,
When you get back, clean your fish and make dinner. Remember, 95% make it fun 5% make it a chore. Thanks from Team 95% ha ha gonna add it to my profile. :grin: :grin:
Fire

[FallRiverGuy]

I would not want Ifish any other way!

[Wishing to Fish]

Jen,

Praise God for you and your "stand"