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Old 10-07-2015, 12:17 AM   #1
eyeFISH
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Default Hangback circles...

... the next step in the evolution of salmon trolling Team eyeFISH style...

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Old 10-07-2015, 05:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

ok I understand the concept , and I like it, anything we can do in this world of barbless stupidity....

but is that particular fish not foul hooked... by legal definition?
is that hook not 100% entering and exiting outside the mouth?
I like your method... but how is that legal?
am I not seeing that right...
yes I know some want to say i am stirring the pot, but that pic to me shows a foul hook, explain to me why it is not?
thanks
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Old 10-07-2015, 05:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Confidence building over the past few years.... enough so to tie an entire roll of hangback circle leaders for the boat.



Not quite the only way we rig, but maybe someday.
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Old 10-07-2015, 06:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by plumberfishes View Post
ok I understand the concept , and I like it, anything we can do in this world of barbless stupidity....



but is that particular fish not foul hooked... by legal definition?

is that hook not 100% entering and exiting outside the mouth?

I like your method... but how is that legal?

am I not seeing that right...

yes I know some want to say i am stirring the pot, but that pic to me shows a foul hook, explain to me why it is not?

thanks

Washington rules are different then oregon


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Old 10-07-2015, 06:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

What is your percentage of bites to hookups and hookups to landed fish?

I'm always willing to try something new to increase my percentage of bites to landed fish when it comes to trolling herring, which seems like it is always inherently low compared to other fishing techniques.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Small sample for the season, but so far 13 for 18.

Biggest concern for me is gaining another incremental reduction in mortal bleeders.

So far, ZERO mortal bleeders since first trying them in the ocean 5 years ago
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Doc, could you re-post the link for how to setup hangback?

We also had zero bleeders this year using Rhys Davis Anchovy Special Heads with a trailing circle stinger. In fact all of our initial hookups were on the circle stinger with approximately 80% of the hookups having the treble that goes in the body of the bait to help get the bend buried in the gill plate (probably from when the fish turned away during the fight).
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

They've worked for me too, on a couple of coho.

Your hangback looks longer than I have been using though, and I have been using whole herring in a helmet, not cut plugs. Could you post some details?
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Eyefish, you have to be pretty patient with the circle hook? Let them really bury the rod? Seems to me that would be the case as I have never fished them for salmon, but live bait for Redfish. In those cases we always needed to really wait it out.

What has your experience been?
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Peter View Post
Eyefish, you have to be pretty patient with the circle hook? Let them really bury the rod? Seems to me that would be the case as I have never fished them for salmon, but live bait for Redfish. In those cases we always needed to really wait it out.

What has your experience been?
Wait... wait... wait...
Then wait some more.
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Old 10-09-2015, 06:21 AM   #11
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
Wait... wait... wait...

Then wait some more.

And if you forget.... He'll enthusiastically remind you to wait some more.

Tuesday was awesome.

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Old 10-09-2015, 01:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnMorgan View Post
Washington rules are different then oregon


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Depends. If you trib fish, when anti-snagging rules are in effect, fish must be hooked inside the mouth, and those are Washington rules.
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Old 10-09-2015, 02:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnMorgan View Post
Washington rules are different then oregon
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True.

But when fishing waters covered by the license reciprocity agreement (for example, Buoy 10 fishery) one must follow the rules of the State in which one is actually fishing. This is another regulation issue that the two States should resolve.
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

[QUOTE=CptnMorgan;11046074]Washington rules are different then oregon


ok so what is it in wa rules,,,, I like the concept, and I know the doc loves it, but how is that one fish a legal hook up... does it being a trailer hook change how the regs count it?
... i mean yes it looks as if he bit it, no its not flossing, but that one odd fish hooked outside the mouth, is there a hook in the mouth i can't see?
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

I'm sure if you look at threads eyefish has posted you can find your answer and learn a thing or two along the way.


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Old 10-10-2015, 08:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhead2 View Post
Depends. If you trib fish, when anti-snagging rules are in effect, fish must be hooked inside the mouth, and those are Washington rules.
No anti-snagging rules in effect in the ocean or any of my favored estuary troll fisheries for salmon.

I'm fishing over active biters in willful pursuit of my gear. In contrast, snagging is any method employed such that the gear is in willful pursuit of the fish.

Snagging it ain't... well... except in the land of Orygoogans

Hopefully the Orygun rule writers will finally have an enlightening "AHA" moment and acknowledge the benefit of this technique in terms of virtually eliminating the risk of mortal bleeders, especially when it comes to selective fishing over protected and ESA-listed salmon.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:20 AM   #17
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Any time we use more than one hook, trolling herring is but one example, the odds go up as to where any of them end up in the fish. Snagging is a fishing method that involves the intent to hook fish that have not actively chased the "bait." Either method runs the possibility that hooks will end up somewhere that wasn't intended. While one method is or should be highly illegal, the other is not or shouldn't be.

I gotta ask those who constantly argue that both are illegal, do you think LEO's really care? Have you ever had your fish checked for "illegal" hook placement at B-10 or any other port along the coast where multiple hooks are commonly used? The law is enforced around the word, "intent." Get off your high horses and use a little common sense. The perfect world you preach is just not that perfect.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:58 AM   #18
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Default Hangback circles...

Someone flossing and snagging is pretty apparent from how they are fishing. To employ either of these methods there are certain techniques during the actual action of fishing. One does not passively snag or floss a fish. It is an active skill that any trained Leo should be able to identify.

That is why I feel Washington has a better definition for legal hook placement then Oregon. I have hooked plenty of salmon and steelhead using lures and the hook is rarely inside going out. Most trebles will be outside going in. Which even includes tossing spinners for trout.


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Old 10-10-2015, 03:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
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Tuesday was awesome.

CW
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Skipper re-positions for a different run:


Batta Bing:


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Old 10-10-2015, 04:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnMorgan View Post
Someone flossing and snagging is pretty apparent from how they are fishing. To employ either of these methods there are certain techniques during the actual action of fishing. One does not passively snag or floss a fish. It is an active skill that any trained Leo should be able to identify.

That is why I feel Washington has a better definition for legal hook placement then Oregon. I have hooked plenty of salmon and steelhead using lures and the hook is rarely inside going out. Most trebles will be outside going in. Which even includes tossing spinners for trout.


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What yousay is true, but the rule says you can't tag that fish anyway, in WA, if the anti-snagging rule is in effect. Intent or not, with the anti-snagging rule it makes no difference.
I've seen a fish actually strike and hooked it in
the top of the nose, the anti-snagging rule is


clear about this.
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Old 10-10-2015, 04:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhead2 View Post
What yousay is true, but the rule says you can't tag that fish anyway, in WA, if the anti-snagging rule is in effect. Intent or not, with the anti-snagging rule it makes no difference.

I've seen a fish actually strike and hooked it in

the top of the nose, the anti-snagging rule is





clear about this.

I have clearly seen a king tail slap bait and get hooked. Still does t change that this is still a legal way to fish.


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Old 10-10-2015, 05:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhead2 View Post
Depends. If you trib fish, when anti-snagging rules are in effect, fish must be hooked inside the mouth, and those are Washington rules.

From the 2105-2016 Washington Sport Fishing Rules:

Anti-Snagging Rule
Except when fishing with

a buoyant lure (with no weights added to the
line or lure), or trolling from a vessel or floating
device, terminal fishing gear is restricted to a
lure or bait with one single-point hook. Hooks
must measure ¾" or less from point to shank,
and must be attached to or below the lure or
bait. Weights may not be attached below or less
than 12" above the lure or bait.


From page 16:
It is unlawful to possess a fish taken from
freshwater that was not hooked inside the
mouth or on the head. The head is defined
as any portion forward of the rear margin of
the gill plate.
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

You guys sticking clear to the letter of the law: What do you do when you catch a fish on a Kwik and the FIRST hook is inside out, but the rear hook is pinned in the face? Or sewing the mouth shut from the outside in? I've landed fish where the trailing hook was threaded through inside out, THEN stuck in the face somewhere, while one of the top two hooks is in the gill plate or elsewhere on the outside....

Do you really release that fish that obviously annihilated your offering?
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulages View Post
You guys sticking clear to the letter of the law: What do you do when you catch a fish on a Kwik and the FIRST hook is inside out, but the rear hook is pinned in the face? Or sewing the mouth shut from the outside in? I've landed fish where the trailing hook was threaded through inside out, THEN stuck in the face somewhere, while one of the top two hooks is in the gill plate or elsewhere on the outside....

Do you really release that fish that obviously annihilated your offering?
The anti snagging rule does not contain any language about hook placement on a fish. Page 16 states that a fish must be hooked inside the mouth OR forward of the rear margin of the gill plate.

The examples you gave would be a legally caught fish.


I know of at least one river that used to require fish to be hooked inside the mouth. This regulation was vague and did not state whether the hook had to be from inside of the mouth to outside.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PulpMaker View Post
From the 2105-2016 Washington Sport Fishing Rules:

Anti-Snagging Rule
Except when fishing with

a buoyant lure (with no weights added to the
line or lure), or trolling from a vessel or floating
device, terminal fishing gear is restricted to a
lure or bait with one single-point hook. Hooks
must measure ¾" or less from point to shank,
and must be attached to or below the lure or
bait. Weights may not be attached below or less
than 12" above the lure or bait.


From page 16:
It is unlawful to possess a fish taken from
freshwater that was not hooked inside the
mouth or on the head. The head is defined
as any portion forward of the rear margin of
the gill plate.
That's what I've always believed to be the case in WA, hooked in the head from the gill plate forward is a legal fish. Thanks for looking up the actual regs!
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:11 PM   #26
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Default Hangback circles...

Hmm so we have someone quoting anti snagging rules and the legality of the fish being caught out of a boat. Maybe someone didnt read the Washington anti-snagging rules.


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Old 10-10-2015, 11:21 PM   #27
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnMorgan View Post
I'm sure if you look at threads eyefish has posted you can find your answer and learn a thing or two along the way.


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https://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=268341
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Old 10-11-2015, 04:06 AM   #28
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

".....forward of the rear margin of the gill plate." That's like saying if it comes in head first, its legal.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnMorgan View Post
Hmm so we have someone quoting anti snagging rules and the legality of the fish being caught out of a boat. Maybe someone didnt read the Washington anti-snagging rules.


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Again,,
Read the additional rules. As an example, check the anti-snagging rules for the Klickitat river. Inside the mouth only.

Last edited by pinhead2; 10-11-2015 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 10-11-2015, 09:10 AM   #30
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

And the Cowlitz, Lewis,Wind................can't think of a single trib that I fish where that doesn't apply.

Last edited by pinhead2; 10-11-2015 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:12 PM   #31
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Peter View Post
Eyefish, you have to be pretty patient with the circle hook? Let them really bury the rod? Seems to me that would be the case as I have never fished them for salmon, but live bait for Redfish. In those cases we always needed to really wait it out.

What has your experience been?
Good things come to those who WAIT... WAIT... WAIT...



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WAIT....

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WAIT...


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WAIT...

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Circle buried under the maxillary plate of this big brute chinook....

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Old 10-17-2015, 10:19 PM   #32
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Are all 3 hooks circle or just the hangback?
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:15 AM   #33
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Only 2 hooks....
Only 1 circle
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Old 10-18-2015, 06:14 AM   #34
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

I believe the initial question was never answered and if that could get an answer it may help clear this up. In the fist pic of the first fish; are there hooks in the fish's mouth that we cant see? Personally, I don't care but this thread is getting hijacked by a debate that should become a different thread. it looks like a good hookup to me...If the question was answered and i missed it my apologies
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:15 AM   #35
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PulpMaker View Post
From the 2105-2016 Washington Sport Fishing Rules:

From page 16:

It is unlawful to possess a fish taken from


freshwater that was not hooked inside the


mouth or on the head. The head is defined


as any portion forward of the rear margin of

the gill plate.
Looks like a legal hookup. It is hooked on the head. Also if it was B10 it would have been saltwater, right? Most estuaries I salmon fish are in the tidal regions.
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:19 AM   #36
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

splitting hairs. How many of you speed on the freeway? it's against the law but sometimes it makes sense.
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Old 10-18-2015, 12:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Just curious, has anyone hanged backed the rear hook of a Kwik?
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Old 10-18-2015, 01:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

I was noticing a pic of yours from P.P. from 2011 that showed a great looking spoon with an orange hoochie on the tail end. Wondering where you got those great looking spoons? TIA Here's the thread # and date: #684089 - 05/20/11
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Old 10-18-2015, 01:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

A hangback hook? Circle hook? Never work!
https://youtu.be/r1VjQ86d7sg

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Old 10-18-2015, 04:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fop View Post
A hangback hook? Circle hook? Never work!
https://youtu.be/r1VjQ86d7sg

fop

"you gotta throw that back in Ory-gone"

... ...
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:56 PM   #41
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Its funny around here every one says a circle won't work, on the east coast they don't understand why we don't use circles

I wanted to use them for springers to reduce smolting. Was watching my herring turn and just before I started letting it out a smolt came in for a close up look and the regular hook smacked it in the back - smolted.

I have some in the box I'll have to start tying them up more often.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:45 PM   #42
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

This is the dance we do on the F/V eyeFISH every time we land a hangback fish...

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Old 10-18-2015, 05:47 PM   #43
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

... ...


Well... except maybe fop... he has an official Obama exemption since he can't dance.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
... ...


Well... except maybe fop... he has an official Obama exemption since he can't dance.
THAT... and the fact that he makes me turn the stereo off the moment he steps in the boat.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:50 PM   #45
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

JEEBUS... do I really have to go back to work tomorrow?
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:54 PM   #46
eugene1
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
"you gotta throw that back in Ory-gone"

... ...
Tell him it's pronounced Ory-gun!!

Good stuff anyway,
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:38 PM   #47
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dudebroguy View Post
I believe the initial question was never answered and if that could get an answer it may help clear this up. In the fist pic of the first fish; are there hooks in the fish's mouth that we cant see? Personally, I don't care but this thread is getting hijacked by a debate that should become a different thread. it looks like a good hookup to me...If the question was answered and i missed it my apologies
No hooks INSIDE the mouth... that's the whole friggin point! To keep the hook from ever entering the mouth where it might encounter vital structures that would result in a mortal hooking wound.

So far the hangback circle scores 100% by that metric
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Old 10-18-2015, 11:34 PM   #48
Simon Peter
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Nice! Patience GrassHopper!


Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
Good things come to those who WAIT... WAIT... WAIT...



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WAIT....

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WAIT...


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Circle buried under the maxillary plate of this big brute chinook....

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Old 10-19-2015, 10:14 AM   #49
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Default Re: Hangback circles...


Hangback circle only scored 1 for 3 on Sunday

Went 2 for 5 on Saturday.

Season total of 16 for 26 for those bold enough to try 'em
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Old 10-19-2015, 12:10 PM   #50
eyeFISH
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Picesman View Post
I was noticing a pic of yours from P.P. from 2011 that showed a great looking spoon with an orange hoochie on the tail end. Wondering where you got those great looking spoons? TIA Here's the thread # and date: #684089 - 05/20/11
You mean this one?

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/f...tml#Post684089

Those are NorthPoint Nailers. Excellent trolling spoons, and my most productive hangback hoochie spoon by far. Got mine from Cabela's in Lacey
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:26 PM   #51
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Default You be the judge....

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post

Season total of 16 for 26 for those bold enough to try 'em (circle hooks)

Let the numbers speak for themselves....


Estuary salmon trolling season 2015, total all comers ( J-hooks plus circle hooks) 326 for 668 = 49%

Hangback circles went 16 for 26 = 62%
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Old 11-22-2015, 07:51 AM   #52
bllelk
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Went to the Coquille two weeks ago with a neighbor who's an avid fisherman. He didn't get the memo on hang back setups. Unfortunately he had several drive byes with only one hookup which he lost. Lucky for me I ended the day with three keepers, around 12# , 8# and a jack. All on different baits. A short plug cut, a Brads superbait and a pink spinner.

I think he's re rigging some of his tackle. Seeing is believing.
Hangbacks work for me. Thanks Doc.
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Old 11-22-2015, 02:26 PM   #53
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post

Not quite the only way we rig, but maybe someday.
Once the regs go king non-retention in any of my favored estuary fisheries, hangback circles will be the rigging of choice.
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Old 12-20-2015, 12:05 AM   #54
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

I'll soon be making the rounds at some of the PNW sport shows with the good folks at Gamakatsu.... hoping to make a few more hangback and/or circle converts along the way. Maybe see a few of you there.
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Old 02-06-2016, 12:01 PM   #55
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

So Doc, you going to be at the Portland show to show your hangback setup at the Gami booth?
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:10 AM   #56
ginger1977
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Doc, do you do a three hook set like that? I remember you emphasizing the importance of an octopus or wide gap for a tow hook and a BRB for trailer awhile ago. What about and Octo or wide gap tow, BRB middle, and a Circle trailer?

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Old 02-14-2016, 10:40 PM   #57
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Only TWO hooks in my bait rigging.

One hook to tow the bait, and the other hanging back to catch the fish. The only thing that has changed is the choice of hangback hook.

For me, the impetus for using the circle hook is purely a reduction in the risk of mortally wounding the odd fish that actually engulfs the hook.

Using a third hook positioned somewhere mid-bait would utterly defeat my intent.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:36 PM   #58
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Default Re: Hangback circles... they ain't just for herring anymore.

Backbouncing eggs and backtrolling diver bait have been added to the growing list of hangback circle applications. Incorporating the circle hook when fishing bait makes it virtually guaranteed that there are ZERO mortal hooking wounds.



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Old 07-24-2017, 04:39 PM   #59
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Ya got'em in the eye. snag....
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:44 PM   #60
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Guess again, bud...

J F C... don'cha figure an eye whittler would know?
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