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Old 07-24-2017, 04:50 PM   #61
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Rigging the circle with my signature hangback amputee results in 95% plus outside-in hookups on willful biters. On the off-chance that the circle hook is inadvertently taken into the mouth, the only place it can possibly gain a purchase from the inside-out is in the scissors.

ZERO mortal hooking wounds.

All you diver and bait guys ought'a take note.

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Old 07-24-2017, 04:52 PM   #62
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
Guess again, bud...

J F C... don'cha figure an eye whittler would know?


Hahaha!



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Old 07-24-2017, 05:17 PM   #63
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

With a limited sample size of a couple dozen fish caught outside-in this way, all but ONE has been hooked in one of these three places:


1) Superior maxillary gutter (the groove above the maxillary plate)...





2) Inferior maxillary gutter (the groove between maxillary plate and the lower jaw)....


3) Inferior orbital rim (bottom of the bony eye socket)....

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Old 07-24-2017, 06:27 PM   #64
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

looks good, also referred to as Bye-fish 2.0
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:40 PM   #65
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I messed around with circle hooks a few years ago,but gave them up.I can't remember why.May have to revisit.this.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:33 AM   #66
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

LMWS's Dreamsicle and Gamakatsu hangback circle hook = fish to the boat. These have been the most forgiving hookups for newby fish-fighters. They're almost immune to the dreaded "planetary alignment" when the fish is next to the boat.

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Old 09-18-2017, 04:44 PM   #67
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

The hangback circle has been holding its own with bonafide biters the past few weeks.... but only for those BOLD enough to try 'em.

One for the captain at first light...

This one came to the net despite violent headshakes while in planetary alignment. The other "planetary" fish that day did NOT fare so well.


Yeah... they deliver behind a ShortBus kicker flasher as well. This darkening YBRB that fell for a Rachel Rae spinner/bait is proof.


Rachel Rae strikes again, this time with my signature Dirty Copper....


Hangback circle on this veteran pink/UV Big Moby spinner/bait was very kind to B_dog.


So kind he was rewarded with a nice king on the very next drop....


After LMWS went 4 for 5 with the same pink blade, D3Smartie wanted a hangback circle spinner/bait rig, too. OK... that just kinda sorta worked out for him.... just a little bit. Who needs a stinkin' treble for a spinner anyhow?



Smartie's rod lights up, and soon JDG wants one, too. I rig up another hangback circle blue tip spinner/bait, and DOWN goes the rod...


Couple days later, LMWS is on tear with the pink blade again...


Crummy weather did NOT deter Ms Maddy. She was rewarded with this chrome prize. Thanks to LMWS's signature Dreamsicle rigged with a hangback circle, she was spared the typical disappointment brought on by planetary alignment.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:55 PM   #68
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Gamakatsu circles rule.... esp when rigged hangback on LMWS's signature Dreamsicle spinner. This winning combo continues to reliably produce chrome for those bold enough to try...



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Old 10-05-2017, 07:58 AM   #69
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

You kept the high finners? Whoa dude... LOLOL. The dream sickle spinner sure looks pretty, I heaved my Gamakatzu circle hooks long ago. I notice the circles trailer the siwash... interesting set up!
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:48 AM   #70
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

This is fished as a spinner/bait rig

The siwash is just there to tow the bait.... the hangback circle is what actually catches the fish.

During the battle, that tow hook can end up in some interesting places.
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:03 AM   #71
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Default Re: Hangback circles...



Thx for the lucky blade, D3Smartie!
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:19 PM   #72
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Default Re: Hangback circles...



The evolution of the hangback circle rolls on.... can't wait to give it a whirl with hangback hootchie spoons next year... esp if they put the ZERO COHO ocean option on the table at PFMC.
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:10 PM   #73
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fop View Post
A hangback hook? Circle hook? Never work!
https://youtu.be/r1VjQ86d7sg

fop
Just watched that again to put it on my Facebook page. Real-time elapsed = 21 seconds to the net. Thanks, fop!
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Old 10-24-2018, 10:04 AM   #74
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:24 AM   #75
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Thought I'd share 3 seasons worth of data on bouncing hangback circles for Alaska kings.

2017: 3 for 4 on the Kenai
2018: 3 for 4 on the Kenai
2019: 12 for 16 on the Togiak, 0 for 2 on the Kenai

TOTAL: 18 for 26... for a bite to land ratio of 69.2%

I'll take that ANY day!

And not a single mortally wounded fish to date.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:36 AM   #76
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:38 AM   #77
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Tapatalk COMPETENT!


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Old 08-07-2019, 07:46 PM   #78
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Left hand Coldwater huh?
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:22 PM   #79
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

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Originally Posted by I-Builtit View Post
Left hand Coldwater huh?
Guide’s rod...certainly NOT my first choice, but gotta learn to be adaptable.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:31 AM   #80
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Doc. I've been rocking hangback spoons fishing Puget Sound this season and I have been exceptionally impressed with the results!

All fish pinned in the corner of the mouth and easily released. Also, I don't know if it was subconscious or not, while fighting the fish we hooked, I never really had a sense of rushing to get slack out of my line... I know that probably doesn't make sense but the feeling of the fight felt like I had a more solid hookup rather than feeling like I needed to gain line back as quickly as possible. I don't know, perhaps it was all in my head but seeing the way the fish were hooked really inspired confidence.

I will say (as was mentioned in another thread which included tips on rigging spoons with a hangback hook), without a "tail wagging" hootchie, I did notice my spoons turning over a bit so controlling speed was a little more important. But, even without the hootchie, I still hooked up on the spoons I deployed.

So, I say, thanks for the fun photo filled threads and helpful tips!
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:27 AM   #81
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Bouncing hangback circles produced excellent results for CHUMS as well...




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Old 08-13-2019, 03:23 PM   #82
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

whats the name of that Knot doc?

Do you use the same know when dropping a hang-back on a 3.5?
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:07 PM   #83
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Default Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumrunner View Post
whats the name of that Knot doc?

Do you use the same know when dropping a hang-back on a 3.5?
Just a ridiculously simple Surgeon's Loop.... THAT'S IT!


I adopted this rigging idea from guide/captain Bret Dickerson's elegant self-adjusting pseudo-egg loop...


https://www.facebook.com/AKSAfishing...1226576856544/


For a bait rig, I stack all my goods between TWO Surgeon's Knots and simply loop my hangback circle on. DONE!


For a NO BAIT rig, I use just ONE Surgeon's Knot sizing the loop for the desired amount of hangback, then stack everything ABOVE the knot, starting with a hoochie for additional profile.

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Old 08-13-2019, 04:11 PM   #84
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Thank you.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:43 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick'em View Post
".....forward of the rear margin of the gill plate." That's like saying if it comes in head first, its legal.
Yep... that’s how it’s intended to work for willful biters in WA

Think about this. Why on God’s green earth would I... or ANYONE else for that matter... use a GD circle hook if I was actually trying to snag a fish?

Here’s your sign...
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:21 AM   #86
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Local troll fishery has the hangback circles batting 33 for 54.... 61%






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Old 10-01-2019, 12:44 PM   #87
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Fine eating there. Pretty good batting average and barbless to. Always barbless right . I got a feeling we will all be back to barbless next year.


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Old 10-01-2019, 09:23 PM   #88
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

100% barbless.

The circle is better than a barb for retaining a fish once hooked.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:20 PM   #89
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Went 22/24 in 5 days of fishing at B-10 this year, with barbed big river hooks. 91%. Granted I had a smaller sample size, but its gonna be hard to give up a 90+% landing rate for 60%. Looks like I wont have to choose though, i'd bet were going back to all barbless regs.


I really like the look of that surgeons loop.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:26 AM   #90
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Barbless J-hooks (over a sample size in the thousands) were sitting right at 51% the last time I checked a couple years ago.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:20 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
100% barbless.

The circle is better than a barb for retaining a fish once hooked.
Doc,

I couldn't agree more! I know in a few posts you have commented on, we were talking about hangbacks and fishing circles. Me being primarily a fly fisherman, I have noticed that you can still strike quickly if you want with circles, AND keep the fish pinned. Owner also has some newer barbless hooks out that looks similar to a big river bait and a mosquito hook combined.

As for the pictures you had posted, try this out next time you hit the river--Downsize the hook size of the circles you are using by one or two sizes. The smaller hooks penetrate easier and find smaller corners and ledges of the mouth guaranteeing better hookups in the corner and even on the edge of the lip--similar to the moffit method.

I've found that gami octopus offset circles are amazing at this. My samples may not be salmon, but when I can tie a bucktail fly using a size 4 for smallmouth, I can hook a fish easily when they take with a hard hookset and get them every time on the lip. I'm 100% with it this year and thats over hundreds of bass.

What I do know, is if you can ELIMINATE SWING WEIGHT, you go down significantly in your odds of losing a fish.

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Old 10-04-2019, 10:16 AM   #92
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

In one of your pics you showed multiple examples including one with a soft plastic swim bait. Is that just for illustration purposes or have you used swim baits for salmon with any success?
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:47 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayout View Post
In one of your pics you showed multiple examples including one with a soft plastic swim bait. Is that just for illustration purposes or have you used swim baits for salmon with any success?
Demo to simulate Old Harbor whole herring.
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Old 10-05-2019, 02:12 PM   #94
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Demo to simulate Old Harbor whole herring.
thanks.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:38 PM   #95
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Hangback CIRCLED!




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Old 02-10-2020, 11:12 PM   #96
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafrk View Post
Just curious, has anyone hanged backed the rear hook of a Kwik?








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Old 02-11-2020, 04:57 AM   #97
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Yes, but mostly with chain or barrel swivels so I can swap hooks from one to another. Takes up less room in the tackle box.
Really like the hangback. Thanks
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:47 AM   #98
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Hey doc,

Can you post directions and poss pics to rig this hangback setup the way you did on the 2-11-2020 post?

Thanks.
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:46 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olycoho View Post
Hey doc,

Can you post directions and poss pics to rig this hangback setup the way you did on the 2-11-2020 post?

Thanks.
It's a bit more detailed than I have time for in between patients, but here's a general description.

I fashioned a circular band about 4.5 inch circumference from 100# hollow braided nylon sturgeon cord.

I looped one end to the circle hook. In this case, I made 3 additional criss-cross wraps to more evenly spread the load and to take up some of the excess 100# cord for the desired hangback spacing

I looped the other end (with hook now attached) to the swivel on the Kwik, kind of like the Danny Krenz method for hangback spoonin'... but taking care to make sure the cord doesn't strangulate itself.
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:29 PM   #100
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Default Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fop View Post
A hangback hook? Circle hook? Never work!

https://youtu.be/r1VjQ86d7sg



fop
Says you?

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Old 03-15-2020, 12:24 AM   #101
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Old 03-27-2020, 08:40 AM   #102
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Now that we all have time on our hands, Doc can you do some instructions on the hangback hook setup for kwiks in the 14s and 15s?

Much appreciated!
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Old 03-27-2020, 01:20 PM   #103
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Hangback Kwiks have been an enigma for me the past 16 years.

My objective of rigging a single hook designed to hook the fish from the outside in and safeguard a fish from ever being hooked deep inside the mouth/tongue/gill arch has been a real challenge, esp achieving an effective rig that doesn’t compromise the fish catching ability of the plug.

Initially, I believed rigging from the belly eyelet had the most promise for my goals. But now I’m convinced the tail is where it’s at. And I have decades of Kwik experience and confidence in the fish-catching ability of a single from the tail.

The puzzle now is figuring out the best method of hanging that tail hook back. The most commonly used "hangback" rig for Kwiks is a split ring and barrel swivel. And yes, it works... but I want more.

I’ve played with all of the hangback variations pictured below in a test-tank, but only one has been proven to actually catch fish in real life.










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Old 03-27-2020, 02:02 PM   #104
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

" but only one has been proven to actually catch fish in real life."

Survey says?????
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:23 PM   #105
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

click bait or cliff hanger, the world awaits the hang back answer, Which One???
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:25 PM   #106
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Waiting.....

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Old 03-27-2020, 02:44 PM   #107
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Not that the other rigs won't work... just haven't been field-trialed with any rigor to date. The 510 on a rope DEFINITELY works. My hangback circle application is a close knock-off.

Field trials start in July if we can get past this Corona BS.






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Old 03-27-2020, 02:57 PM   #108
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post


I'm no scientician Doc, but that fish looks like it's leaking pretty good..... :P

I'll tell you, I rig my spoons with hangbacks now and will likely never go back to regular siwash hooks again.
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Old 03-27-2020, 03:05 PM   #109
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This is how I’m rigging my hang back spoons.

Swivel -> 40-50lb mono -> hook

Rig a few of them up and swap out if hook gets dull or line gets frayed.


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Old 03-27-2020, 03:06 PM   #110
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Attachment 742403
This is how I’m rigging my hang back spoons.

Swivel -> 40-50lb mono -> hook

Rig a few of them up and swap out if hook gets dull or line gets frayed.


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Running those in the Salt?

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Old 03-27-2020, 03:12 PM   #111
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Running those in the Salt?

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Yep. Puget Sound mostly. Haven't had a chance to fish the ocean yet.
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Old 03-27-2020, 03:36 PM   #112
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

Two strands of 40lb Power Pro Maxcuatro (same dia of 8lb mono), takes time to tie, but we hand no failures last year on CoHo.
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Old 03-27-2020, 03:45 PM   #113
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I'm no scientician Doc, but that fish looks like it's leaking pretty good..... :P
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:34 PM   #114
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Default Re: Hangback circles...

I'm thinkin yukon was egg huntin' for the bait box that day.

Regardless, I gotta give him props for that riggin'. The the Gami 510's have a relatively small gap when compared to the butt end of a K16. Hanging it back there with the red rope version was sheer genius... proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that a smaller hook could still be HIGHLY effective if it was hung back far enough for adequate exposure.

That was back in 2005. I was a bit skeptical, but I tried it for myself in 2007 with success. An epiphany! I christened that BloodBrother K16 Kwik "Dope-On-A-Rope" and it's still in my arsenal today.

So as I've explored hangback CIRCLE options, the rope method is one of my top contenders. The gap on my preferred 7/0 Gami Nautilus Circle is nearly identical to that of the 4/0 Gami 510. On the water trials begin this July, Corona pandemic willing.
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:46 PM   #115
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Ok Doc, what's your batting average with the 510 Assists? Give me your numbers!

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Old 03-27-2020, 07:33 PM   #116
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ok doc, what's your batting average with the 510 assists? Give me your numbers!

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0.667
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Old 03-27-2020, 07:59 PM   #117
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0.667
Better than a juiced up Barry Bonds!

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Old 03-28-2020, 08:16 AM   #118
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The puzzle now is figuring out the best method of hanging that tail hook back. The most commonly used hangback rig for Kwiks is a split ring and barrel swivel. And yes, it works... but I want more.

I’ve played with all of the hangback variations pictured below in a test-tank, but only one has been proven to actually catch fish in real life.










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I haven't yet used hang back circles on lures, but will try them this season if/when we get to fish. I'll definitely rig mine "rope" style, not with bead swivels for what I consider to be a good reason.

Steve Kaimmer when he was with the PFMC researched the use of circle hooks for halibut. Different fish, different size hooks, different style of fishing, but he found that which side of the hook the line leaves the eye of the hook made a significant difference in the rate at which fish were hooked. If I remember correctly, he did 10,000 sets with circle hooks.

The way Doc rigged his "rope" hooks is the way Steve recommended and is how I'm going to rig mine.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:19 AM   #119
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I haven't yet used hang back circles on lures, but will try them this season if/when we get to fish. I'll definitely rig mine "rope" style, not with bead swivels for what I consider to be a good reason.



Steve Kaimmer when he was with the PFMC researched the use of circle hooks for halibut. Different fish, different size hooks, different style of fishing, but he found that which side of the hook the line leaves the eye of the hook made a significant difference in the rate at which fish were hooked. If I remember correctly, he did 10,000 sets with circle hooks.



The way Doc rigged his "rope" hooks is the way Steve recommended and is how I'm going to rig mine.

ron m
So the best is line exiting the eye toward the hook shank?

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Old 03-28-2020, 10:33 AM   #120
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So the best is line exiting the eye toward the hook shank?

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Yes.
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