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Old 02-25-2020, 01:42 PM   #61
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dont punish the good guys punish the bad ones. fine litter bugs a big fine and enforce it and it will stop.


So who is going to pay to have a super undercover officer hiding in the bushes making sure the junk leaver is the culprit and not the good guy who shows up days later?


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No need for cops in the bushes. Do we need cops in the bushes to make sure bottles and cans get picked up? I don't shoot a lot of shotgun and I dont engage on criminal behavior by littering but I would be more than happy to pay a 50 cent or $1 deposit per non metallic/plastic case hull or cartridge. That would solve the problem overnight with the birdshot crowd

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Old 02-25-2020, 02:07 PM   #62
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...I would be more than happy to pay a 50 cent or $1 deposit per non metallic/plastic case hull or cartridge. That would solve the problem overnight with the birdshot crowd
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if we just had a $.50 deposit on Keystone Light cans alone, most of the litter I see in the NF would be gone! I find those cans out in the middle of nowhere ALL THE TIME.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:38 PM   #63
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No need for cops in the bushes. Do we need cops in the bushes to make sure bottles and cans get picked up? I don't shoot a lot of shotgun and I dont engage on criminal behavior by littering but I would be more than happy to pay a 50 cent or $1 deposit per non metallic/plastic case hull or cartridge. That would solve the problem overnight with the birdshot crowd
As someone who shoots a lot of "non-metallic/plastic cases" I think we should also charge $1 deposits on brass, steel and aluminum cases as well. That way everybody gets equally screwed because some SH's can't pick up after themselves. And no, the problem is not just with "the birdshot crowd".
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:32 PM   #64
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No need for cops in the bushes. Do we need cops in the bushes to make sure bottles and cans get picked up? I don't shoot a lot of shotgun and I dont engage on criminal behavior by littering but I would be more than happy to pay a 50 cent or $1 deposit per non metallic/plastic case hull or cartridge. That would solve the problem overnight with the birdshot crowd
As someone who shoots a lot of "non-metallic/plastic cases" I think we should also charge $1 deposits on brass, steel and aluminum cases as well. That way everybody gets equally screwed because some SH's can't pick up after themselves. And no, the problem is not just with "the birdshot crowd".
Rifle and pistol shooters by and large are not the problem and any brass left behind is quickly picked up by others. Even the steel cases will eventually rust away and return to the environment. Shotgun hulls are larger than any cartridge besides 50 BMG and take thousands of years to decompose. I have also noticed over the years that the tvs, couches, computer monitors etc are almost always shot up with bird shot. Face it bud shotgunners are giving the rest of the shooting community a big black eye. Fine them for littering up front in the form of a deposit and if they are responsible adults they will get their money back when they turn in the hulls. I have already proposed this to my state rep so it's not a matter of if it's only a matter of when this will become law.

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Old 02-25-2020, 04:44 PM   #65
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Rifle and pistol shooters by and large are not the problem and any brass left behind is quickly picked up by others. Even the steel cases will eventually rust away and return to the environment. Shotgun hulls are larger than any cartridge besides 50 BMG and take thousands of years to decompose. I have also noticed over the years that the tvs, couches, computer monitors etc are almost always shot up with bird shot. Face it bud shotgunners are giving the rest of the shooting community a big black eye. Fine them for littering up front in the form of a deposit and if they are responsible adults they will get their money back when they turn in the hulls. I have already proposed this to my state rep so it's not a matter of if it's only a matter of when this will become law.
Funny, that’s not what I see. Lots of garbage and trees impacted by rifle and pistol rounds. Empty cases and general trash everywhere. If you want Shooters to take responsibility for the actions of vandals, then ALL SHOOTERS should take responsibility, otherwise it’s just another way to create division. Don’t play the Fudd card.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:55 AM   #66
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Rifle and pistol shooters by and large are not the problem and any brass left behind is quickly picked up by others. Even the steel cases will eventually rust away and return to the environment. Shotgun hulls are larger than any cartridge besides 50 BMG and take thousands of years to decompose. I have also noticed over the years that the tvs, couches, computer monitors etc are almost always shot up with bird shot. Face it bud shotgunners are giving the rest of the shooting community a big black eye. Fine them for littering up front in the form of a deposit and if they are responsible adults they will get their money back when they turn in the hulls. I have already proposed this to my state rep so it's not a matter of if it's only a matter of when this will become law.

Not around here, the majority of empties at the two closest pits are 223 and 9mm, followed by 22lr. Not that many shotgun hulls. There are a couple people that swing by and glean the brass but not the steel.



The issue with the deposit is who is going to take and redeem the empties for cash? Gun shops, WalMart, ...? Pipe dream, not gonna happen.


I know very people who only shoot rifle or shotgun, it's always somebody else's fault and they should do something.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:21 AM   #67
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I think what you see simply depend's on where your at!
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:44 AM   #68
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No need for cops in the bushes. Do we need cops in the bushes to make sure bottles and cans get picked up? I don't shoot a lot of shotgun and I dont engage on criminal behavior by littering but I would be more than happy to pay a 50 cent or $1 deposit per non metallic/plastic case hull or cartridge. That would solve the problem overnight with the birdshot crowd


Funny we just raised the deposits in bottle and cans... we had a temporary increase in percentage of cans and bottles turned in. But do to the lack of redemption facilities we are treading right back to square one. 50 cents and dollar really just translates into the cost of shooting. If you really want to be serious about it, it has to be a nongovernmental entity offer a bounty. But I don’t see any sportsman groups offering a bounty on brass, steel, firearm lead or hulls.


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Old 02-26-2020, 10:11 AM   #69
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[QUOTE=Nightvisionary;16266971I have already proposed this to my state rep so it's not a matter of if it's only a matter of when this will become law.[/QUOTE]


Oh, I can hardly wait. I have THOUSANDS of hulls and a brother who is an Oregon resident. Plus I have access to thousands of hulls every month, this could make me super loads of cash. My club goes thru about a truck load and a half of clays every year, that's 187,000 targets per truck load. Being conservative, I bet I can clear $120,000 a year, retirement here I come! Money! Finally my sporting clays habit will pay for itself.


Besides that, this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Basic problem is people are slobs. Not to mention nobody will shoot if target loads are $32 a box...
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:26 PM   #70
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Oh, I can hardly wait. I have THOUSANDS of hulls and a brother who is an Oregon resident. Plus I have access to thousands of hulls every month, this could make me super loads of cash. My club goes thru about a truck load and a half of clays every year, that's 187,000 targets per truck load. Being conservative, I bet I can clear $120,000 a year, retirement here I come! Money! Finally my sporting clays habit will pay for itself.


Besides that, this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Basic problem is people are slobs. Not to mention nobody will shoot if target loads are $32 a box...
From what I have seen of the draft, hulls will be marked similar to cans so same as cans no Oregon refund stamp no refund. If people stop shooting target loads I see that as a win win. They are the ones spewing the lead and leaving the trash. Anyway you live in Idaho so will be unaffected.
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:41 PM   #71
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This might be a bad time to bring this up but,...


Does anyone want a good deal on some full bags of #7-1/2s or #8 lead shot for reloading?
I have a few bags of each.


ROFL
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:41 PM   #72
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From what I have seen of the draft, hulls will be marked similar to cans so same as cans no Oregon refund stamp no refund. If people stop shooting target loads I see that as a win win. They are the ones spewing the lead and leaving the trash. Anyway you live in Idaho so will be unaffected.
And this is why we're going to lose our ability to shoot, hunt or just own firearms in general. You are the very definition of a Fudd.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:20 PM   #73
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From what I have seen of the draft, hulls will be marked similar to cans so same as cans no Oregon refund stamp no refund. If people stop shooting target loads I see that as a win win. They are the ones spewing the lead and leaving the trash. Anyway you live in Idaho so will be unaffected.

So, basically shotgun shells will not be sold in Oregon. Good plan. No wonder eastern Oregon wants to join Idaho (and Gov. Little is rolling out the welcome sign!). Guess I'll make my retirement money bootlegging AA's to the trap shooters. Over here I see far more washing machines shot up with centerfire rounds than anything else, pretty sure those littering slobs are all using non-tox rounds...
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:01 PM   #74
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And this is why we're going to lose our ability to shoot, hunt or just own firearms in general. You are the very definition of a Fudd.
Let's not get carried away. I am 180 degrees on the spectrum from a Fudd which has been my whole point all along. The only shotguns I own are fighting shotguns, a High Standard Riot and a High Standard 10B. Shotguns in general are firearms designed for sporting use and thus not specifically protected by the 2nd Amendment as they are not useful for martial activity. I see myself as finally holding the Fudd's accountable for the closure of so many public shooting sites due to decades of plastic vandalism. Remember, Elmer Fudd carried a double barrel shotgun.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:09 PM   #75
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So, basically shotgun shells will not be sold in Oregon. Good plan. No wonder eastern Oregon wants to join Idaho (and Gov. Little is rolling out the welcome sign!). Guess I'll make my retirement money bootlegging AA's to the trap shooters. Over here I see far more washing machines shot up with centerfire rounds than anything else, pretty sure those littering slobs are all using non-tox rounds...
Yep, just like they stopped selling beer and sodey pop after the bottle bill passed.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:20 PM   #76
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Let's not get carried away. I am 180 degrees on the spectrum from a Fudd which has been my whole point all along. The only shotguns I own are fighting shotguns, a High Standard Riot and a High Standard 10B. Shotguns in general are firearms designed for sporting use and thus not specifically protected by the 2nd Amendment as they are not useful for martial activity.
Shotguns have been issued to some American marines and Army infantry in every war since WWI.
Starting with the Winchester M1897 "Trench Gun."
The Win was issued all the way through the Vietnam era before being replaced by the venerable Rem870 issued to every branch of the service including the USCG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897

The Rem 870 "MCS" is the new "Modular Combat Shotgun" for the 21st century. It is in service with the US Military under the designation M870, and is used by armed forces (and police depts) all over the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_870#Users



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Old 02-26-2020, 04:35 PM   #77
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Let's not get carried away. I am 180 degrees on the spectrum from a Fudd which has been my whole point all along. The only shotguns I own are fighting shotguns, a High Standard Riot and a High Standard 10B. Shotguns in general are firearms designed for sporting use and thus not specifically protected by the 2nd Amendment as they are not useful for martial activity. I see myself as finally holding the Fudd's accountable for the closure of so many public shooting sites due to decades of plastic vandalism. Remember, Elmer Fudd carried a double barrel shotgun.
You’re a Fudd and a hypocrite. Your firearms are protected, but mine aren’t? Give me a break.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:01 PM   #78
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Shotguns have been used in every armed conflict since the founding of this nation. In the 1770's very few citizens owned rifles or muskets. Most owned fowling pieces, which were commonly loaded with "buck and ball". Muzzleloading shotguns were not uncommon in the civil war, more frequently on the Southern side. In Cuba the Winchester 97 was used, in WWI and WWII there were 97's, Model 12's, A-5's, in Korea and Viet Nam the 12's and A-5's were very common (my late father in law had the A-5 in Korea as a guard at a Japanese POW camp after WWII but before the Korean conflict). Mossburg pumps have been standard issue for a long time, don't know what they are using now. Not that it matters, the founders did not make any distinction between "military" and "civilian" arms, in their world they were one and the same.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:09 PM   #79
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Shotguns have been issued to some American marines and Army infantry in every war since WWI.
Starting with the Winchester M1897 "Trench Gun."
The Win was issued all the way through the Vietnam era before being replaced by the venerable Rem870 issued to every branch of the service including the USCG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897

The Rem 870 "MCS" is the new "Modular Combat Shotgun" for the 21st century. It is in service with the US Military under the designation M870, and is used by armed forces (and police depts) all over the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_870#Users



You need to quit before you fall any further behind here NV.
Stop digging.
I know all that. I carried Winchester 1200's, Remington 870's, and Mossberg 590's in the Marine Corps. However I never carried 28 inch barreled Fudd Guns, shot clay pigeons, 7 1//2 shot or failed to police my expended cases after shooting. Since we can't all have Marine Corps discipline a nominal deposit will help keep everyone honest and the forests clean.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:11 PM   #80
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You’re a Fudd and a hypocrite. Your firearms are protected, but mine aren’t? Give me a break.
Isn't that what Fudd shotgun and hunting rifle owners have been telling the rest of us for the last 50 years? Turn about is fair play, what good for the goose and all that.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:16 PM   #81
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Shotguns have been used in every armed conflict since the founding of this nation. In the 1770's very few citizens owned rifles or muskets. Most owned fowling pieces, which were commonly loaded with "buck and ball". Muzzleloading shotguns were not uncommon in the civil war, more frequently on the Southern side. In Cuba the Winchester 97 was used, in WWI and WWII there were 97's, Model 12's, A-5's, in Korea and Viet Nam the 12's and A-5's were very common (my late father in law had the A-5 in Korea as a guard at a Japanese POW camp after WWII but before the Korean conflict). Mossburg pumps have been standard issue for a long time, don't know what they are using now. Not that it matters, the founders did not make any distinction between "military" and "civilian" arms, in their world they were one and the same.
You may be correct but the U.S. Supreme Court in U.S. V Miller most certainly made a distinction.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:52 PM   #82
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Isn't that what Fudd shotgun and hunting rifle owners have been telling the rest of us for the last 50 years? Turn about is fair play, what good for the goose and all that.
Uh, no they haven't. If they had your "military assault rifles" would have been gone a long time ago. Along with "Saturday Night Specials", "sniper rifles" and whatever the evil gun of the day was. As for turnabout is fair play, as I have stated previously, we all need to stick together, or else we ALL lose. Suggest you get with the program and target the previously mentioned SH's who trash our shooting spots. There's an organization called Trash No Land that cleans up shooting areas in the PNW. Suggest you check out the website. http://trashnoland.org/

As for my bird guns not being protected, there's the recent Heller decision:

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

At this point I'm assuming you're a troll and will have nothing more to do with you. Semper Fi
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:30 PM   #83
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Why is everyone feeding the troll yet again.

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Old 02-27-2020, 07:05 AM   #84
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Funny we just raised the deposits in bottle and cans... we had a temporary increase in percentage of cans and bottles turned in. But do to the lack of redemption facilities we are treading right back to square one. 50 cents and dollar really just translates into the cost of shooting. If you really want to be serious about it, it has to be a nongovernmental entity offer a bounty. But I don’t see any sportsman groups offering a bounty on brass, steel, firearm lead or hulls.


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The supermarket lobbyists at work, they've been trying for years to get it off their property. In Redmond they finally managed to kick the deposit/return sites across the tracks to the industrial park. Yet they still take the deposit money at the register.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:20 AM   #85
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You may be correct but the U.S. Supreme Court in U.S. V Miller most certainly made a distinction.

Miller was specifically addressing a shotgun with a barrel LESS than 18", and the court remanded the case back to a lower court to decide. Miller did not pursue the case in the lower court, being a somewhat nefarious individual he managed to get himself shot full of .38 holes before the case was remanded. It's always been a pretty thin case for anti gunners to hang their hats on.


Over here I see far more littering (which there are already laws against) being done by the tacti-cool crowd...and that includes what happens at my club.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:43 AM   #86
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you just have to enforce the rules when you catch them. word gets around fast if the penalties are correctly applied.
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:11 PM   #87
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The supermarket lobbyists at work, they've been trying for years to get it off their property. In Redmond they finally managed to kick the deposit/return sites across the tracks to the industrial park. Yet they still take the deposit money at the register.


I bet the super market would love to keep it on site if they were the ones who kept the unclaimed deposits. And no it doesn’t stay in state coffers.


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Old 02-27-2020, 02:37 PM   #88
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I really like these new recycling centers they have around the Metro area. It's waaaaaay better than returning cans to the store. Lines are either non existent or short, when a machine malfunctions it is immediately cleared and brought back on line. If not there are several other machines available. I also don't have to stand outside with the riff raff or hunt down the tiny recycling room in the back of the store.

The same technology will easily be adapted to shotgun hulls since it's just a different form of plastic and metal.
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:01 PM   #89
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I really like these new recycling centers they have around the Metro area. It's waaaaaay better than returning cans to the store. Lines are either non existent or short, when a machine malfunctions it is immediately cleared and brought back on line. If not there are several other machines available. I also don't have to stand outside with the riff raff or hunt down the tiny recycling room in the back of the store.



The same technology will easily be adapted to shotgun hulls since it's just a different form of plastic and metal.


You want your rounds bar coded?


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Old 02-27-2020, 03:17 PM   #90
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You want your rounds bar coded?


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Yes, that is the whole point but I am a responsible gun owner, I don't shoot target loads at all and shoot well under 20 rounds of shotgun ammo per year, either 00 buck or slug. Most years I shoot zero shotgun ammo. My shotguns are mostly collectable safe queens because I have no practical purpose for them that isn't better accomplished by another platform.

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Old 02-27-2020, 04:28 PM   #91
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Yes, that is the whole point but I am a responsible gun owner, I don't shoot target loads at all and shoot well under 20 rounds of shotgun ammo per year, either 00 buck or slug. Most years I shoot zero shotgun ammo. My shotguns are mostly collectable safe queens because I have no practical purpose for them that isn't better accomplished by another platform.


So you want a system to further register to a particular round?


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Old 02-27-2020, 04:38 PM   #92
Nightvisionary
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Default Re: Shooting is major forest recreation activity

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So you want a system to further register to a particular round?


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I don't see why this is so hard to understand. When you take a dollar and buy a can of Pepsi does the government know you bought that can of Pepsi? If you drink that Pepsi and drop the empty can on the Capital lawn would Oregon State Police be able to track you down for littering by scanning the barcode?

Last edited by Nightvisionary; 02-27-2020 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 02-28-2020, 04:14 PM   #93
444Marlin
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Default Re: Shooting is major forest recreation activity

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I don't see why this is so hard to understand. When you take a dollar and buy a can of Pepsi does the government know you bought that can of Pepsi? If you drink that Pepsi and drop the empty can on the Capital lawn would Oregon State Police be able to track you down for littering by scanning the barcode?
What if you threw that can in Oxbow Park?!
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Old 02-29-2020, 06:54 PM   #94
James in Idaho
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Default Re: Shooting is major forest recreation activity

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Yes, that is the wh
ole point but I am a responsible gun owner, I don't shoot target loads at all and shoot well under 20 rounds of shotgun ammo per year, either 00 buck or slug. Most years I shoot zero shotgun ammo. My shotguns are mostly collectable safe queens because I have no practical purpose for them that isn't better accomplished by another platform.

Funny, I'm a responsible gun owner, and I shot somewhere between 7000 and 10,000 shotgun rounds per year. I'm not unusual, and I know folks who put my round count to shame. Shotgunning is the largest firearm sport in the USA. There is no chance that shotgun shell manufactures are going to stamp $1 deposit on shells sold in Oregon, simply because no other state would be so stupid. Do yourself a favor, visit a trap, skeet or sporting clays range and learn something.
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