Crossing the CR Bar July and Aug. help/advice

PapaHog · 12-14-2005, 11:05 AM

I posted this on the main forum and was advised to post my questions here.
Link to other forum.http://www.ifish.net/forum/showflat....gonew=1#UNREAD

I will copy and paste most of the original post here.

Here is the story.

My friend (bad back bankie)and his son just got a 22 foot Fishrite Performer, brand new out of the box. Powered by a 140hp prop with a 9.9 kicker. Lowrance Fish finder, depth finder and GPS.

Now to the question in the subject of this thread. We are wanting to fish out by the CR Buoy June, July and the first part of August. Maybe longer.

We will gain some experience in the river between now and then but have no experience at crossing the bar. We do not and will not go by ourselves so we are looking for an Captain with experience in crossing the bar. Some one who has been outside many times. Maybe someone who no longer has a boat and will trade knowledge for fishing trips.

How do we find such a experience Captain willing to fish with us for a few trips in June and July when and if the river and ocean are friendly.

How would we find out if he is qualified. References???

Someone known to people on this board as highly Qualified would be ideal. I have some names in mind but they have boats and will probably be fishing.

Would like to get a jump on this before the season begins and be ready with a experienced Captain who wants to teach and fish with a willing crew.

After a few times out with an experienced Captain we would like to develop a network of running mates to follow out and fish around where we might be of assistance to each other in finding fish. Also I would think there is safety in numbers and another boat keeping an eye on us would make us feel better, I am sure.

This boat will fish 4 with comfort and we want to be safe and secure.

We don't want to wait til then and post an open seat for a teaching Captain. We want to be ready.

We would like to meet with this person over a diet Pepsi and talk tides, swells, wind, current, weather and anything to do with fishing in the river or out of the river in the ocean.

Thank you for reading this post and for any help and advice you can offer.

papa

kamloops · 12-14-2005, 11:27 AM

Don't make many plans in June. Salmon usually opens around the 4th of July up here. This year, who knows's it ain't look'n so hot. I'd be surprised if we get much of a season.

If'n your interested in learning crossing bars, this really ain't the best one to practice on.

Newport would be the place I'd learn, then if your really
gung ho on the Columbia than fish Buoy 10 in August.

rojo · 12-14-2005, 11:58 AM

I second Tom on that. Not much going on in June down that way unless gators is still open. If your set on the Columbia try to get a ride or two, or even take a trip with Gene at Tackle Time. Come July if there are fish outside I can always find room...Roger

fishinduck · 12-14-2005, 02:42 PM

I couldn't agree more about practicing on the columbia. There are many a reason(s) that it is called the pacific gravyard. It is a scary place.

I learned as much as I could this past summer by going out on one of my friends dad's boats out of garibaldi 2-3 times and watched very closely as to what to watch for and what to do. The third trip we took my sled out acroos the tillamook bar with him watching over my shoulder the whole time. The next trip we folloed him out on his boat.
And then finally I followed them across the Columbia Bar. It was a beautiful day and the tides were right but it is still an intimidating place that deserves respect and caution with every maneuver. I know that going forward I will not attempt the Columbia bar solo for at least quite a few voyages. I wish you the best of luck PH.

PapaHog · 12-14-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

I second Tom on that. Not much going on in June down that way unless gators is still open. If your set on the Columbia try to get a ride or two, or even take a trip with Gene at Tackle Time. Come July if there are fish outside I can always find room...Roger

I have been outside the Columbia many many times just always with an experienced Captain and I have been out with Gene 5 times even for tuna. I have been out with 4 or 5 guides and many times with a friend with a boat.

Just never thought I would be in a position to fish with a friend and his son that have a new boat and little bar crossing experience or ocean fishing experience.

Will fish July out of the Columbia and maybe farther south depending on the results of other ifishers in the ocean in June.

Just wanting someone to ride with us and be in charge so we all can learn full time about conditions and bar crossing.

I did not mean to imply that we were green as green beans at this at this fishing stuff, only the ocean and bar crossing is new to us. But as I told my friend (Bad Back Bankie) the salt is where it is happening and he agrees and wants to learn.

In fact I have three trips scheduled in the next three months with a guide in a river. I have fished with a guide twice in December already.

Just looking at all options.
papa

PapaHog · 12-14-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

I couldn't agree more about practicing on the columbia. There are many a reason(s) that it is called the pacific gravyard. It is a scary place.

I learned as much as I could this past summer by going out on one of my friends dad's boats out of garibaldi 2-3 times and watched very closely as to what to watch for and what to do. The third trip we took my sled out acroos the tillamook bar with him watching over my shoulder the whole time. The next trip we folloed him out on his boat.
And then finally I followed them across the Columbia Bar. It was a beautiful day and the tides were right but it is still an intimidating place that deserves respect and caution with every maneuver. I know that going forward I will not attempt the Columbia bar solo for at least quite a few voyages. I wish you the best of luck PH.

This is the kind of experience I was looking for. You have nailed it on the head.

papa

fishinduck · 12-14-2005, 03:12 PM

I wish I could be lend you a hand, but I am still fairly green my-self. Plus your friends boat is the perfect example of 2 foot itis for me. My 20' sled already wishes it was just a little bigger. Again, best of luck to ya!

Maverick Maxcat · 12-14-2005, 05:12 PM

I'm not a CR regular, but I see something in your pic that must be addressed. It looks like that boat has an open bow. Most of the boat troubles on bars I remember this year involved open-bow boats taking a wave and filling the bow. Please consider filling the space with tied in coolers, or a snap on canvas cover over a cooler, something to keep that space from filling if you take a wave over the front.

My .02.......MM

BM-FISHER · 12-14-2005, 06:04 PM

Pm sent

PapaHog · 12-14-2005, 07:30 PM

Thank you maxcat we have already talked about that. We will do something because there are only small holes to let water out. Will have to do something about keeping water over the bow from causing us problems.

papa

San Anita · 12-14-2005, 08:15 PM

Congratulations, thats a nice ride and a real nice go fisher.
I spent years running over the coloumbia bar and still go up when the salmon fishings good. Usually late July to through August and into September if the ocean allows. Last couple years been tagging along with the Tunaholics out of Newport and Depo chasing Halibut and Tunas.
Theres a lot to respect and pay attention to going out over the CR Bar. It can be done and is done a lot but it doesnt take too much of a mistake to get you in trouble. I believe there is tons of correspondence on this subject if you do a search.
If I was new to going over the bar I would go over the bar in another Salty Dog boat a couple times and then have a Salty guest on yours.
Good Luck and give me a PM if youd like a ride sometime on mine , even though its tuperware.
Bill

Onokai · 12-14-2005, 09:56 PM

No need to cross the bar . Just stay on your stool and order a cold one. I noticed you mentioned July /aug -You really plan ahead for drinking. Always helpful Mark

skybuster · 12-14-2005, 10:07 PM

I have an open bow 19 foot T-Jet, and agree that you need to figure out something for the bow. I have decided not to take my boat out there again until I fabricate something for the bow.

The CR bar is tempermental in places and experience will teach you where you don't want to be. I must stress that you don't want to cut the corner around the tip of the south jetty. Some days the water is flat there and I have been guilty of sneaking by there, but at times a nasty rip will develop right off the tip and extend a few hundred yards out. I tried going through that rip once and it was the by far the scariest moment of my boating career. If you see that water poppin' at all just stay away from it.

If you watch the weather and tides closely this bar really isn't bad at all. I won't ever cross if the conditions are sketchy.

As for fishing out there try spinners and spoons. You can go through a ton of bait out there and I have found that the fish will hit hardware just as well. If you fish spinners you will probably have to make your own because of the single hook restrictions. Pink and white spoons with a single siwash are deadly out there. If you do fish bait try chunk bait with dodgers and hootchies, your bait will go a lot farther.

I plan on trying to run my office from the Hammond area this summer and will be chasing the fish from whenever it opens through September. Don't forget your sturgeon gear. If the bar is too nasty you can always nail gators if it is still open.

fishinduck · 12-15-2005, 06:34 AM

I know this came up on a post a few months ago. This seems to be a good link for getting some overall inof on the topic : http://www.marinews.com/boating/btn-...s/ba_barc.html

CATCH AND EAT · 12-15-2005, 06:47 AM

One thing that most tin production boats are lacking are larger drain holes up in the front. If it were me I would have a professional welding shop like Versa TEch in PDX to the enlargement for you. I also second the bow cover, it could be a life saver. OH, and wear your PDF.

Nordic Sun · 12-15-2005, 09:16 AM

OK you have the right idea, and you are going about it the right way!!!!

We CR dogs have gotten so used to warning people about the CR Bar and being very careful not to post anything that could be construed as advice, that we some times forget to praise those who are going about learning in the right way. HANDS ON INSTRUCTION!!!!

Having said that, and echoing the responses about your boat design,#1 understand that if it is nice enough for your boat to go, we probably are already out there. #2 July is too far away to plan a specific day.

But, when it gets closer, check back in.

Congratulations on your approach to learning!!!!!

If the Ocean lays down enough I might PM you for a winter crabbing/Bar crossing lesson.

Bob

slabhunter · 12-15-2005, 09:19 AM

PapaHog,
Glad you found your way over here. :smile:
I didn't see a VHF antenna on the boat. A good radio setup is a "must have" when fishing beyond the bouys.

CR dog · 12-15-2005, 10:09 AM

Halibut opens in May but wouldn�t recommend you go out the Columbia for that. I�ve notice that the winds are a little high until around mid July. With a light boat like yours it just makes for a rough day. I live in the area on weekends and in the water quite a bit. I would recommend you practice the river during sturgeon season. Use the ramps in Ilwaco so you can get use to that long run back to port in the wind, with swells and wind waves. The boat will get pounded on the way back to port and this is good training to get to know your boat. My neighbor and/or I fish just about every weekend for something during the seasons. He has been fishing and boating the area for at least 40 years. He is selling his boat this year to reduce cost. If you�re still interested in someone I can bring it up in conversation with him. I�ve been boating for at least 15 years. (Used to race sailboats in bad weather.) Been boating the CR area for the last 3 years that I�ve owned a place in Long Beach. My neighbor has a 22ft cuddy Reinell and I a 19ft�cuddy Bayliner. Both have been taken out the CR for some good fishing. On the 19 footer I have to pick my days out.

You just have to learn to respect the water and have the necessary safety equipment. It�s not a question if but when. The best of the best have been hit hard. You should have at a minimum GPS, radio, map, compas, and cost guard approved safety rescue kit and first aid kit, etc. The fog will roll in at times. Need to prepare for that. The local Coast Guard gives a boating safety class every year in the area. I believe it�s around early spring.

Take the advice of your fellow boaters about your bow. And ensure you have a good anchor and plenty of line. Always carry a knife and put an extra in the stern. Now is a good time to crab in the area. The swells and current have been challenging lately.

flapbreaker · 12-15-2005, 11:21 AM

The funny thing about Bar crossings and the ocean in general is when the conditions are right you could safely be out there on a piece of styrofoam. It's when the conditions change for the worse that having the right "tool" for the job really counts.

The bow cover if made out of fabric will not work for a green water wave. In fact the windows might not even hold up to that. I wouldn't advise puting ice chests up front since these will become flying objects.

Also regarding the CR. You will find out that it's not just the bar that can get rough. I've been out of Hammond when we were forced back to port due to some really scary stuff. Mostly we were out on the wrong tide. That was before we new to pay attention to the tide even if your not planning a bar crossing.

Don't mean to preach to you as I'm sure your aware of the hazards. Good luck. :smile:

CATCH AND EAT · 12-15-2005, 11:47 AM

Flapbreaker makes a good point here Papahog regarding the water and tides. the area around bouy 22 can be oh so ugly and for sleds at times not passable. Same goes for the Washington side around wing dam 7. Some really rough water develops there and is good practice for the novices out there.

Beware the ebb tide though.

kamloops · 12-15-2005, 12:25 PM

Bernie

Anywhere around A Jetty or Ilwaco in general, scares the heck out of me.

I have made that trip from Ilwaco to Hammond in a 20'
Northriver sled in a blow before. No thanks, not gonna do it anymore period......Never been so scared in my life.

bobross · 12-15-2005, 04:23 PM

Papa Hog!

Having someone with experience with you the first few times is a good idea. But, if it is a nice day and you don't have anybody, just go for it. I have been out there lots of times when you could pull water skiiers over the bar it was so flat. Go out when it is starting to flood, and come back across at high slack,
. Follow the red buoy line out (and don't go over the sunken jetty). I recommend you enter all the red buoys starting at Hammond as waypoints as you go out. In case it fogs up, you can navigate back in that way on your GPS. Keep an eye on the wind. If it is starting to pick up, think about heading back.

You should put one of the NOAA websites on your computer so you can check for those nice days. Look for smaller swells at a good interval with little wind.

The first few years I did this, I would go out to buoy 10 or 8 to see how it looked, and if I was nervous, turn around and try maybe an hour later as the tide starting running better. Sometimes I had to turn around at buoy 12.
There are still times when I will stick my nose out there and conclude that this isn't something I want to be a part of, even when the forecast was favorable. I won't take long for you to get a feel for what conditions you are comfortable in.

Always wear your PFD.

Good luck. have fun.

PapaHog · 12-15-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

PapaHog,
Glad you found your way over here. :smile:
I didn't see a VHF antenna on the boat. A good radio setup is a "must have" when fishing beyond the bouys.

We do have a good radio the antenna is just laying down in the picture.

Thanks
Papa

PapaHog · 12-15-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Flapbreaker makes a good point here Papahog regarding the water and tides. the area around buoy 22 can be oh so ugly and for sleds at times not passable. Same goes for the Washington side around wing dam 7. Some really rough water develops there and is good practice for the novices out there.

Beware the ebb tide though.

I have been there at buoy 22 in a friends sled when more water was coming over the front than I was comfortable with. In fact lots of water, very very rough. I have crossed the bar many times and have never seen it like it was that day at 22.

papa

PapaHog · 12-15-2005, 05:32 PM

I have been very happy with the response to my Questions as I knew I would be. Very nice comments and helpful advice.

I will keep this thread in my favorite threads and revive it when the time comes closer.

To them that PMd me, Thank you I will be in touch.

About the bow cover? Not wanting a green water wave to come in there and it does not have very big holes to drain the water so something needs to be done. What kind of bow cover is avaliable for this type boat?

Question? How do the sleds make so many trips out there without being more deaths? Lots of guides go outside in sleds.

I have been out there in a sled

but now I am concerned about that practice and may never do that again.

papa

flapbreaker · 12-15-2005, 06:39 PM

As far as the bow cover goes... Could a person just cut a sheet of diamond plate the shape of the bow? Just an idea. Lot's of people just chance it I guess. As long as they plan correctly for the weather/tide/current they seem to make it back.

Sweepy · 12-15-2005, 09:23 PM

I would suggest at least one VHF radio, two is better. Check in with coast guard, (Channel 16), to make sure radio works correctly as you leave port. Ask for a bar and ocean report or unusual activity. I've been near the bar, preparing to cross, when the bar is closed to all traffic.It looks like something out of the movie (Perfect Storm). Sometimes the bar is so flat you cannot tell that it is there. Wind and tide dictate the conditions. The bar conditions are predictable. The Chinook Indian tribe crossed the bar and there is no records of them sinking.They knew when to cross.

Paddler · 12-15-2005, 09:58 PM

I still plan to look into the "Bow Bag" idea. Now that I have my boat I can take some measurments and get them to the fabricator. Just waiting for warmer weather. It should be the cats meow.

5 Salt · 12-15-2005, 11:30 PM

There a good discussion about CR bar crossing, tidal velocity and timing at http://www.salmonuniversity.com/wtc_ilwaco_ocean.html

I have run an 18ft open bow jetsled over CR bar 6-7 times. I dramatically enlarged foward pit scuppers/drains, contructed a wooden cover that could be tied down propper and picked my days. I always said to myself you are turning back at any point if you don't like what you see.

slabhunter · 12-20-2005, 11:29 AM

PapaHog,
A 3/4" piece of plywood works for me to keep the occasional wave from filling the bow of my 22' Alumaweld Intruder. Back to back waves concern me more than one wave here or there.

I only crossed the bar about half a dozen times this year during favourable conditions. Things change day to day, I prefer to fish on the improving weather trends. So, even if the tide is right, I'll often decide to remain inside if there is a question.

Fishing, for me, is about having fun with friends and family. If it's no fun I'll choose to fish another day.

flapbreaker · 12-22-2005, 08:16 PM

Ken,

I use this website to check on the ocean wind wave and swell report. http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/PZ/250.html

Of course a smaller wind wave and longer period is prefered. The only thing I notice is that they seem to always have a "rough bar" listed for the CR. This is probably just to cover their....... Hope this helps.

ArimaRees · 12-23-2005, 12:19 AM

Thanks ,thats a very nice site!

PapaHog · 12-23-2005, 08:44 AM

Yes, Thank you

troybuz · 12-23-2005, 07:52 PM

Filling the bow with water is a concern, but, having an anchor is also something you should not be without...so just blocking off the bow without an anchor plan would be a poor idea. NO, you won't be anchor fishing...but should you be dead drifting into the jetty, that ole anchor will be your best friend...plus it's Coast Guard recommended.
Most Jet Boats are not desighed to de-water in Oceanic waters, so make sure you have a couple large bilge pumps properly installed and in working order. Enlarging your scuppers (drain holes) is a good idea, however, it doesn't make as much diference as you would think.
Another must is a grate rake. You main motor can be disabled quickly with sea-weed or other ocean debrie, so be prepared...a kicker motor also can pay big dividens should you main motor give you problems.
Finally...avoid crossing on the Ebb Tide...especially the late Ebb "Max Ebb." Plan your trip around the high slack if at all possible.
Good Luck and Stay Safe

PapaHog · 12-23-2005, 08:17 PM

Thank you for reminding me about the anchor needing to be accessed. However this boat is not a jet it is a 140 prop with a 9.9 kicker.

Thank you
papa