Spike only elk in w.Wa next year

HntnFsh · 12-12-2005, 01:36 PM

I've been hearing lots of rumors that WDFW is seriously considering going to a spike only elk hunt in Western Washington next year.All branch antlers will be by draw only.

The people I talk to say its going to be the straw that broke the camels back.They'll give up elk hunting.I wont say that for myself.But I cant see the sense in it.

Any of you guys hear that rumor.Or have any links I can look at to see whats up or voice my opinion?

Thanks,
HntnFsh

Small Fry · 12-12-2005, 01:44 PM

Why not Oregon has been doing it for years to some degree. The entire east side of the state is that way. Some bow hunts will be draws only next year and some will be spike or better. It's sucks but I'm not giving up.

Chesapeake · 12-12-2005, 01:48 PM

I would guess its just a rumor. For one WDFW manages the elk unit by unit, herd by herd not half the state at a time. There was no mention of it in the recent public opinion survey they put out. They already made and announced the changes they are planning to implement in the next few years. They have several "damage" hunts for elk in Western Washington aimed at reducing elk numbers. My guess is that if they wanted to increase the bull to cow ratio they would provide more cow elk opertunity, not less bull elk opertunity.

But there is always the history that shows the WDFW will do strange and unexplained things for no apparent reason.

Washington Hunter · 12-12-2005, 01:53 PM

That option did make #17 on the results of the poll they just posted on the website:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/surveys/2006-...son_survey.pdf

Chesapeake · 12-12-2005, 02:19 PM

Goes to show you how good of a memory I have. I took that poll a month or so back and I didnt remember the question at all.

Boy that is sorry, only 2023 hunters took the poll.

Big TULE · 12-12-2005, 04:16 PM

I took the poll, and i think it has good and bad points...

More mature bulls, better hunting expierence, and a little more common courtesy With less hunters in the field.

Bad, More poaching. Less animals to chase. We see alot of spikes though.

Rank Amateur · 12-12-2005, 09:45 PM

The managers seem to be hung up on this spike only thing, seems everybody that hunts a 3pt+ area like it. When ODF&W was pushing to do a blanket spike only hunt on the Westside there was a group of us that fought it. It was interesting to find another state, Montana (I think) that had a unit that they started this in. While the bio in the area thought it was great (probably his idea) the results were not in our opinion. He did document over 12% poaching loss of branch bulls per year. What I remember of the area the branch antlered take was dismal, although I'm sure there was some nice ones taken. If you look at Oregon's spike only units, you will see this result too, while there are some very nice bulls being taken, there are very few of them allowed to be taken. The scenario that in a few years lots of branch antlered tags will become available has NOT panned out.

I am an avocate of the 3pt. rule, for the size of our herd we produce a lot of bulls, some are very big. Teeth data has documented bulls up to 8 years of age. The data that I have seen suggested that their were 5+ bulls per 100 cows that were 3+ years of age, with a post season bull to cow ratio of around 20. In the Starkey project a 3 year old bull was just as effective at breeding as a 5 year old. The part that I like the most about this rule, is that many people are allowed to participate and when you step out of the pickup in the morning, you just might get that bull of a life time, you can't say that when you have a spike only tag.

I think in the long run there is going to be a problem in the genetics using a spike only program. Think of it as a seive, only a few bulls make it through. Tell me, are those bulls that get by the hunters the fittest or just the luckiest? In a 3pt area, the bulls can become active breeders at age 2 on. The cows are known to select the bulls more than the other way around. They will select the fittest bull and there will be more to choose from. Seems to me to be more of a genetics selection.

I have to laugh when I hear the game managers say that we have to go to spike only for the health of the herd. Yet they then turn around and run all the fat off of the cows hunting them for up to four months. That is just contrary to good management.

The real eye opener on this whole subject is the fact that a general season (any bull) unit here in Western Oregon has had one of the highest calf to cow ratio's in the state, contrary to this whole spike only management scene.

Spike only may fit in certain circumstances, but a blanket policy would be a dire mistake and have major impact upon sportsmen.

gottafish · 12-12-2005, 11:29 PM

Funny how us sportsmen can sit back and look at this and just scratch our heads. Why are these guys in the job they have ? Somebody is pulling strings in both oregon and washington and It isn't the bio's I often wonder if it all about the money. They can sell a lot of spike tags because they know there are not that many spikes but if you sell three point or better it could clean out a unit so you sell less tag's It boils down to $$$$$$

Washington Hunter · 12-13-2005, 07:56 AM

It's not about money...it's about providing opportunity for as many hunters as possible to get out and hunt. That is what the WDFW is trying to do. The alternative to a spike only general season could be elk hunting by draw only. My only complaint with the Dept. of Fish & Wildlife is that I think they sometimes give too much weight to what hunters want. It's nice that they do these polls and have meetings open to the public, but final decisions on game management should be up to the biologists who have an education in wildlife management.

baller25 · 12-14-2005, 07:54 PM

when someone says it is not about the money it usually it is.....when it comes to the government its always about the money

Rank Amateur · 12-14-2005, 08:57 PM

There is a key word here "oppurtunity". Is your oppurtunity the same hunting an any bull hunt versus a spike only hunt? 3pt, versus spike only? Draw only, versus any bull? I think the answer is no! I have had some hunters tell me "if I wanted to go for a walk in the woods, I would have done it at a better time of the year." This was after a spike only hunt.

You can see the reasoning for a spike only hunt, but I think it has some serious flaws though and the impact on hunter oppurtunity is seriously over looked.

I think there are better ways to manage the elk herds than is currently done, they will envolve things that are not popular with a lot of hunters, but if you want to maintain oppurtunity and days afield they are better options than the traditional spike only format.

A very simple way to help increase escapement of larger bulls is to run a cow season immediately before a hunt. The big bulls get the message real quick.

The Wilson unit seems to have been a success running a any bull hunt and then a spike only hunt, I would think you could get an even better result running a spike only and then a 3pt+ hunt. The bio's, always scoff at that idea and say "you are harvesting the animals you are trying to protect". Duh! What are you doing with a any bull first/spike only second. Research has indicated and common sense would tell you that if the big bulls get bounced around during a first season with out being shot, they will be a lot harder to hunt during the second season.

Of coarse we could talk about managing the all the hunters that are cheating and hunting all the seasons! The impact of that would be huge.

Lucky one · 12-14-2005, 09:02 PM

I think your common sense approach would work, pressure the bulls first without killing them and they would be darn tough to find. I think it would work well.

As for the managing the hunters, well you never miss an opportunity do you?

Washington Hunter · 12-14-2005, 09:45 PM

I don't see what is wrong with it "being about the money." The WDFW needs money to operate. But really what they're trying to do is to make everybody happy, and to do that they sell an elk tag to everybody who wants one. I don't believe it's ONLY for the money, but they do it this way because this is what hunters have asked for. Personally I would rather see them go to draw only elk hunting and cut the number elk tags substantially, and increase the price of elk tags by whatever is necessary to make up the loss of revenue from the decrease in elk tags sold. I don't understand the idea that everybody should get to hunt elk every single year. There are just too many people now and not enough elk.

Big TULE · 12-15-2005, 07:19 PM

If they would stop the scum, they would have alot more animals...
Not picking on any proffesion but there are a few that take animals out of season and do not care...And because they are on private property they probably do not get caught...
Some will deny it but i know a few people that have told stories...
If we had more than 3 game officers around here we would be in a better situation also. They can't cover the fall runs of fish and hunting season alone... We need more law enforcement... If you want to raise my tag fees please put it towards enforcement...