All-Purpose Varmint Rifle (or thereabouts)

[rimrock]

I’m looking to get the best compromise on a new varmint rifle to use for bobcat and coyote. I will not be using this rifle for anything smaller than a bobcat and I don’t have the money to purchase more than one set-up (getting one will be a stretch in of itself).

Been looking mostly at the .223 but I’m not fix on it. I’m a little concerned with this caliber for bobcat. What caliber/load combination would you ballistic boys favor on an “all-purpose” varmint rifle? I don’t want to blow-up a bobcat with too much of a set-up! I’m trying to keep the cost around $1200 including rifle, scope…but I’m willing to get the best value on my money even if I need to spend a bit more. Are Kimber rifles all they are cracked up to be, or is a typical barrel length Remington good enough?

Being that I’m NOT a ballistic guy I’m not exactly sure what questions to ask? Any recommend would be much appreciated.

[Bluefinn]

Hard to beat a 22-250

[skein]

Since you're starting from scratch, I've been reading lots of good press on the 204. Most of the manufacturers are making them now, but the CZ sticks out as a very fine rifle at a reasonable price.

I've not even fired one, but the predator/fur hunters are saying it anchors 'em right now, and the pelt damage is minimal. That's not to say you won't EVER tear one up, but the little 34 grain bullet just seems to enter and explode. Done deal.

I'm intrigued enough by the small bullet that I'm experimenting with 30 and 35 grain Bergers in my 222. But that's another subject.

I can tell you that the 22-250 is a rocket ship, but will decimate a hide.

Skein

[Ni!]

I would pretty much second what skein said. I assume fur quality is an important consideration for you. In that case I would look at something smaller than a 22-250. There's no question the 22-250 kills them very dead, but it also tends to blow big holes in pelts from time to time. That's not such a problem on the occasional coyote, but bobcats are fewer and farther between, and you may not want to take that chance. I was just thinking yesterday that the .222 would be a great bobcat round, and would also be passable on coyotes if you limit your shots to 200 yards or so.

I've also heard good things about the accuracy of the CZ, and you should definitely look into the Tikka T3. I just bought one in .243 and have been cringing whenever I think of what it might do to a bobcat hide. I almost got a chance to find out yesterday but it disappeared into the brush before I could draw a bead on him.

The .204 and .17 Rem are also possibilities. Just remember that the smaller you go, the more precise your shots and probably the shorter the range you should limit yourself to. You also can't shoot a cougar with these sub-.22 caliber guns if one should show up while you're calling coyotes. That's a big part of the reason I went with the .243, and I'll just have to see how it does on the smaller cats. I may end up having to buy another gun.

Ni!

[Flying Roast Beef]

I've personally seen the .222 kill several coyotes. It is definitely enough gun. Not to mention zero recoil which makes it a great learning gun for the young ones.

[Opportunist]

Consider a .223 due to the fact you can get cheap ammo if you are not a reloader and if you are, brass is cheap and plentiful. The hornady V-max is a great bullet. A buddy shoots a Les Baer ar-15 and gets his best groups with them. Another way to maximize the .223 is to buy a rifle with a BOSS and that way you can dial in whatever factory or bulk ammo you buy. If you are only shooting predators under 200 yards like on the westside consider your deer rifle and shoot full metal jacketted bullets or in tight set-ups a shotgun with buckshot.

[traks44]

.204

[stikbow]

In researching rifles I would look at a savage.

[Hunt'nFish]

Rimrock,
Really hard to beat a good 223. I also like my .243 and it would serve a couple roles as varminter and light duty deer rifle. I primarlily use the .223 for calling coyotes and the .243 for blacktail treestand work but it could serve both purposes. (I think you should have one of each! :grin

But if you have to make a choice, I'd probably just stick w/ the 223. I prefer an auto for coyotes. I've 3 mini's and 1 AR .920" barrel. The mini's are great for quick/close work and the HB AR is my longrange tool. However given funds I'd get an accurate med weight barrel 18-20" AR. Bushmaster, DPMS, Olympic, Rock River or LesBaer should all have what you need. I have my eye on one of the Carbon15's now owned by Bushmaster, super lite and very accurate for it's barrel diameter.

I know a lot of folks are bolt action fans, but I find quality AR15 's to be as accurate or better than most bolts.
But hey that's just my opinion.
Hunt'nFish

Mike Knifong Gunsmithing
Beaverton, OR
ultramag338@yahoo.com

[rimrock]

Ni! too funny. I’ll give ya credit on that one.

Thanks a bunch everyone for the responses so far. I admit most of you compared to me have forgotten more about predator hunting than I’m sure I’ll ever learn. My experience in the past has been walking around spotlighting bobcat/coyote using a 10-22 in the high desert. Not a bunch of skill required other than knowing where the on/off switch is , so I’m a total novice when it comes to this type of hunting.

I’m leaning towards the .204, .222 or .233 because I want the pelts (especially the bobcat). I’m not sure how often a cougar would come to a call (I’m I totally wrong or is this rare to the extreme? ). I don’t really want to pass if an opportunity arises. I realize I’m probably asking too much regarding the range in game (bobcat to cougar); I just don’t have that much money in a hunting budget. How low can ya go with a well placed shot on something as big as a cougar (does sub-22 caliber = bad news)?

I read some on the .204. With a 40 grain bullet it appears to pack more of a punch than even a .223; the 35 grain bullet wasn’t too far behind. And I have a feeling at 4000fps a 35 grain bullet would EXPLODE – that’s a good thing for pelts.

How far are “typical” shots and even what’s a fairly common long shot when calling? Remember I’ve spotlighted in the past these shots 99.9% of the time are typically way less than 100yards. Do I need a set-up that plants’em at 200yards? I only hunt in the high desert. Once an eastside boy always an eastside boy I guess.

Do you have a preferred scope? Sorry fellas about all the questions I just don’t know a whole lot about this area of hunting and I’d rather not spend $1000+ like the rookie I am.

I know dogs/bird hunting ; predator hunting .

[skein]

First off, remember that to take bobcat you need a furbearer's hunting license and bobcat tags. The tags are specific for east side or west side, but not both.

Also, you can hunt bobcats with a light, but not cougars. If one comes in at night you have to let him go. (Or hope he lets you go. :grin: )

That said, about 90% of my predator shots are inside 80 yards. I would guess that 75% of them are within 30 yards. The long shots are generally running, and I either miss completely or get a lousy hit on 'em and tear up the fur. Shooting sticks certainly help.

If you're out driving around taking pokes at the 'yotes out in the fields, you will have some long shooting. But if you're going to set up and call 'em in, think bird-hunting ranges.

Skein

[ehunter]

Skein how does a 243 do for coyote hunting? Is it too big a caliber for them or will wreck the hides?

thanks

[ajfishfinder]

223 with FMJ. This will leave a hole in both sides that you will barely be able to stick a pencil through. If you want destruction, just switch to balistic tips.

[skein]

Ehunter,

I had a .243 and in my experience it was too much. That's a hot little round, and I tried a wide range of bullet types and weights and just cringed when I looked at the damage. Not always, but often enough to figure a hide was gone when I poked it. I finally sold it.

Now, having said that, I'm starting to feel the same way about my beloved 22-250. I absolutely LOVE that rifle and caliber, but it's tough on 'em.

Let me do a little experimenting with the itty-bitty bullets in the .222 and I'll write up a report.

As an aside, the FMJ seem to do their share of hide damage as well. I've heard (but not substantiated) that the bullet will tumble when it hits, and create enough hydro-shock to blow a big hole out the far side. Sure would be great to see some pic of skinned out carcasses and hide damage from the inside out. The fur conceals so much it's hard to tell just looking at 'em laying on the ground.

Skein

[Rakkasan]

I am partial to the 223 (5.56) because I was in the military and it is a good round. I have a couple of friends who are gun buffs and they both use the 223 for varmint. Just my opinion.

DS

[Ni!]

If you're targeting bobcats, the frequency of cougar responses will probably be higher than if you're targeting coyotes due to the types of terrain you'll choose. That's why I recommended the .22 caliber since that's the minimum legal for cougar. However, as skein pointed out, if a cougar comes to the call at night, you're SOL regardless of which caliber you've got.

That being said, I would not hesitate to shoot a cougar with a .222 or .223 provided the range was not too extreme. (Maybe inside 150 yards or so. It would depend on the shot that was offered.) My understanding of cougars, based on reading and talking to people who've shot them, is that they aren't that difficult to kill compared to other similar sized animals.

My experience with calling is that most shots will be inside 100 yards, provided you let them come that close. However, you'll get the occasional coyote that will hang up at 300+ yards and just sit there looking at you no matter what sounds you throw at them. When this happens it's very tempting to throw some lead at them and with the smaller calibers you can quickly run out of range. That's the trade off you make when you're trying to save pelts, so there's really no perfect caliber for every situation.

Good luck.

Ni!

PS - Regarding the .243, I've only had mine for about a month and have yet to shoot any fur with it. I have a feeling bad things will happen if I use the traditional varmint-type bullets, so I'm going to load up some premium bullets and see how they do. I've heard good things about the accuracy of the Barnes TSX and am thinking that might be a good way to minimize damage from the inevitable exit hole.

[traks44]

Scope: 3.5-10/50mm Matte finish leupold scope $550.00
Rifle: either a savage, ruger, remington in .204 $500-700
bases and rings: oh lets say $100

I have no personal experience with the .204, but from the relatives that have it and all the reviews. I gotta believe you would love it. The .204 has ample energy to kill cougars, I think we often times forget before we had these specialized varmit rifles people killed hundreds and hundreds of cougars and coyotes with .22 caliber rifles and pistols and still do today!

As far as cougars go, I would find a kill and sit on it or track one in the snow before I tried calling one in.

[Ni!]

The .204 has ample energy to kill cougars,

I'm sure that's true, but it's not a legal weapon for cougars. 22 centerfire is the minimum caliber in Oregon.

Ni!

[Rauly]

I shoot a Rugar K77 .223 with a Weaver 3x9 scope. Nothing fancy but it sure reaches out when I need it to. As stated earlier, most of my shots are 100 or less yards but, there is something about haveing one hang up at 250-300 and sit and bark at you. Then just dump him. Satisfying. The .223 is a great caliber and I think you would like it. Not to say you wouldn't like one of the others also. Good luck and give me a hollar when you get set up. we'll go out.

Rauly

[traks44]

I'm sure that's true, but it's not a legal weapon for cougars. 22 centerfire is the minimum caliber in Oregon.

Ni!

Thats why the smallest gun I own is a .223 , but I would love to know how many would pass up a perfect 50 yard shot on a cougar because they had a .204 instead of a .223


Thats all I have to say, please dont let that comment ruin the rest of the post over ethics or right or wrong, just an observation I made!

[steelhed58]

My experience has been only with a 22-250 Ruger,target barrel with a 12X Leuopold and full metal jacket bullets. There are no giant holes to sew up,no sawed in half coyotes or much of a limit on distance (- wind). Alot cheaper than some of the others mentioned but, if the stock is wood, be sure to sand out some of the forestock where the barrel sits or it may crack the stock. I sold mine about 10 years ago for about 500. Save the Courgars for Portland in case Gresham runs low on them! Nice job Oregon legislature!

[ehunter]

Ok guys let me ask this a recreational soon to be coyote hunter how effective is the old rim fire 22?

Thanks

[Hunt'nFish]

no giant holes to sew up,no sawed in half coyotes

What if we WANT our coyotes in two pieces???

How effective is the 22LR?

Not worth a hoot. I caught one out in the open while ground squirrel hunting and all it did was make him run FASTER!! You could hear them wack him, but no effect.
Hunt'nFish

[Rank Amateur]

Bounced a rimfire .22 off the head of a coyote years ago, is that the answer you where looking for? Gee, ehunter, when we go coyote hunting we are going to have some mangled dogs, you with a .243 and me with a .270. I did shoot a coyote head on one time at about 30 yards, now that was knock down power! Didn't pass through, but boy did he stink!!! Hitting them, with a side shot, . Has anybody tried taking the heat out of a large bore and see if that helps pelt damage? Hmm, new caller$500, new ghillie suit $200, new rifle and scope $1,000. Maybe I will just break out the shotgun.

[TheTexan]

This question has been debated many times on this board.

You could drop a charging bull elephant with a 22 caliber rifle and the right shot placement, but would you do it?

22 caliber rifles have probably killed more coyotes than a lot of other cartridges, but if you are going to hunt coyotes pick something that will give you a little margin for error.

I like the 204 and I have one on my Christmas wish list! I sure hope Santa is reading this post!

[Bucolic buffalo]

I hunted yotes with a 22 when I was a kid, a long time ago, and it killed them just fine. My first one was when I was 5 years old. It is all about shot placement and distance to target. It is not my first choice now but it was all I had then.

[DRUNK COWBOY]

I like my .243 WSSM. If you are goping to keep the hides, then I would not suggest it.

[Fishing With Larry]

I wanted to add in my views. I have had years on a trapline and been hard core into varmits the past 5 years. We call in critters at almost every other set. I have spent a lot of time getting good at calling and killing fur animals and there are many things to consider if you are looking at fur. The difference in pelt price is HUGE if it has holes. If you are going for fur, you should look at getting close and using a shotgun for both yotes and cats. If you are calling, I separate the coyotes from bobcats. I want to be able to kill coyotes at long range. My favorite is my sniper model in a 223. I have also learned to love the 204 this past two years. Just as dead, but the velocity almost makes a bigger hole depending on where the animal is hit. A .17 is very percise but lacks power for an effective kill unless the shot is perfect. This is hard on a running shot. Bobcats need nothing more than a 22 mag or a 22 long rifle. 17 or 204 or 22 cal. ARE all too much for these small animals. Pelts on bobcats are too valuable to punch huge holes in them. Not many people are not very productive on bobcats so I would try to concentrate on which animal was at the top of the list because they are very different.

My son and I killed three bobcats on Friday and Saturday for the opening of bobcat season and all were killed with 22LR.

[OuterLimits]

I prefer the .222 or .223 for close range and the .22-250 for long range. Anything larger than that tears up the hides considerably.

[ehunter]

Gee's Rank don't forget the 2500 camara with big telephoto lens I will need that extra distance from you since I won't be able to afford all the other stuff.

[Bob Barthlow]

I think .223/5.56mm is a great all around varmit round, and cheap to shoot.

Olympic Arms K8 AR-15 varmit rifle/yote buster!....

Anything larger than that tears up the hides considerably.

Not really,a 243/6mm bullet is less susceptible to wind drift and if loaded down does little hide damage. I hunted with a 243 for fur harvest for many years using downloaded 80gr FMJ bullets and had far less hide damage than the animals shot with a 22-250. Hide damage is caused by bullet performance (terminal ballistics) and velocity, at impact.

I would recomend a .223 if you can only have 1 rifle. A 243 or 6mm Rem would be a nice backup rifle for windy days.

[skein]

Keta, you mention downloading the 80gr 243, and bucking the wind in the same paragraph. I don't get good drift characteristics out of my downloaded rounds, and in fact have trouble stabilizing the bullets. Maybe I'm downloading tooooo far and need to add back a little powder.

I am going to try the lighter .224 bullets in my .222 though. I'm hoping a 30gr pill at about 3000fps will penetrate and explode, stopping right there.

Rimrock, I hope we're not starting to hijack your thread. If we get detoured too far, just bring us back in line. :grin:

Skein

Skein,
Try for 2600fps-2700fps or go to 90gr bullets. An older 6mm Rem would stabilize the lighter bullets better too.

I never liked the bullets to blow up because I was shooting everything from muskrats to coyotes. BTW, a 243 isn't the best choice for rats if you plan on selling them.

[Salmo trutta]

Savage 110 varmint grade with a stainless fluted barrel and laminated stock.

Will kill anything way out there!!

[Hunt'nFish]

Skein & Keta,
Compare twist rates between your two 243/6mm's.
There has been a lot of various twists made and it could be possible skein's is a slower twist than yours Keta. It could make a big differance when loading outside the std velocity envelope. And it sounds like Skein is running below the minumum RPM level and de-stabilizing. Going up in bullet weight would only make it worse.
Hunt'nFish

H&F,
True but most production 243/6mm rifles are built to stabilize 90-105gr bullets. Early Remington 6mm's were built for lighter bullets.

BYW, I don't have any 243/6mm rifles now.

[StevenB]

Here is the Oregon Coyote callers dream gun in my opinion.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976660234.htm


#4 buckshot works best for yotes and bobcat at 10 to 50 yards. A good knowledge of how to fire the .222 barrel would come with practice.

SB

Smaller buckshot does the job well at close range and does little hide damage.

[Ni!]

I've got a couple boxes of Hevi-Shot "Dead Coyote" loads coming from Cabela's. Size "T" and supposedly perfectly round. I'll do some pattern testing and maybe post a report when it arrives.

Ni!

[Alabama Redneck]

Rimrock I am looking into the Remington 700 LSS in 7mm-rem mag and as a back up the Mountain Lss which comes in several calibers in your range and they also have a Varmint line thats pretty good. Should come int your price range. Check with Keith's sporting goods in Gresham they seem to have most everything avcailable or can get it within a week.

[rimrock]

WOW. Man you guys make me look bad. Reading all the posts I realize I know even less about this stuff than I thought at first. I appreciate tapping into all your experience.

I certainly am intrigued by the .204 but still I'm going back and forth between it and the .223. Granted again I know little and I do realize ANY caliber at times will blow-up a bobcat/coyote, but in .223 using FMJ is this high risk at distances sub-50yards?

The high speed .204 light grain bullets must explode on entry, but if a .223 using FMJ just passes through with ¼ diameter holes I would feel this may give me a more versatile rifle. If you were picking?

That CZ527 sure looks good, have any of you tried one? I particularly like the 24-inch barrel; I’m not looking to go with a shorter length. Who else makes 24-inch standard barrel length? I seems kind of rare.

CZ makes good guns.

[finnedwonder]

204 = way to go, awesome round simply sweet. I am saving to buy a varminter in this caliber as we speak..type...wahtev...find one, shoot it, then be convinced if you dont have a 22-250 (second choice) or 243 then go for the 204.... ~Fin

[baltz526]

if you want pelts, a shotgun loaded with steel bb's or t's. for long range sniping, a 22-250, loaded with a good 55gr boat tail.i have killed several coyotes with a 6.5x55 with 140gr partitions, if you do not hit bone it caused little pelt damage. in my 22-250 i have killed coyotes using 55gr, 60gr,64gr bullets, none of them had massive pelt damage, but shooting them with lighter bullets, like ballistic tips, or hollow points have blown softball sized holes,on impact.and you do not want to use 165/140gr ballistic tip on coyotes,the coyote will look like it ate a handgranade

[weekender]

That CZ527 sure looks good.

I've got a CZ 550 in 22-250. I couldnt find alot of info before I bought it, so I was a little worried.

To make a long story sort, its the best out of box rifle I've ever shot, and I've had other people tell me the same thing after they shot it. The single set trigger is great.

[sunshinefisherman]

I don’t have the money to purchase more than one set-up (getting one will be a stretch in of itself).

Pleae check out the H&R line. They are not glamerous but they SHOOT! An accurate single shot varmint barrel rifle can be had for less than $300. The big plus is their barrel accessory program. You send your receiver to them and they will fit it with any caliber or guage you want. I have one with a .243, .223 and .410. Barrels cost $50 to $100 each. Since the scope mounts to the barrel, you can change calibers without resighting as long as you have a scope for each barrel. If you only have one scope you can just pop it off the mount and resight.
I also think that Tasco has some decent value scopes. I put a $150 6 X 24 varmint scope on my .17 HMR. Fully coated optics. It's not a Leupold but it's not $1000 either.

[Hawk]

Is there any place where you can go to test shoot any of these rifles? For example, I was debating between a 40cal and a 9mm pistol and, after I went to the range there by Clackamas Town Center, it was very clear which one was better for me.

Is there any similar place where I could go to shoot a dozen rounds or so through a 223 and a 22-250?

[finnedwonder]

the cz is awesome in fact it is the one i am saving for. plainly put...sweet.

[OuterLimits]

22-250 is the all-purpose varmint rifle

For making donuts out of the hide.

[grsteelies]

If it was I! Here's your set-up. Gun REM 700 AS Varmit in .223. Scope 6.5 x 18 x 50 Leup Var X III. Harris Bipod.
Shooting sticks. Digital game call. You're right about $1000 to $1500. Stick with the fmjs for killing. They'll leave the smallest holes. Maybe pask some 62 gr hollowpoints to put on the cougar of yours. Do lots of bench work with it. Surplus ammo is affordable. Clean your barrel alot, but best thing you need to do is just shoot it a bunch.

[Hawk]

Keta, you mention downloading the 80gr 243, and bucking the wind in the same paragraph. I don't get good drift characteristics out of my downloaded rounds, and in fact have trouble stabilizing the bullets. Maybe I'm downloading tooooo far and need to add back a little powder.

Is there any vailidity to someone's earlier comment that increasing the twist rate of the barrel will stabilize bullets when you download them like Skein and Keta are doing?

I think it's more length/weight.

[Hunt'nFish]

Keta,
Length is inmaterial. Weight however relates to stabilization in the fact that weight affects maximum velocity in a given cartridge, and velocity & twist rate determine RPM's at the muzzle, and once RPM's down range drop below a minimum level, the bullet destabilizes and accuracy goes kaputt.
Perhaps your thinking of Sectional Density, where length, weight & caliber are the main varibles.

Rimrock: I certainly am intrigued by the .204 but still I'm going back and forth between it and the .223. Granted again I know little and I do realize ANY caliber at times will blow-up a bobcat/coyote, but in .223 using FMJ is this high risk at distances sub-50yards ?

The high speed .204 light grain bullets must explode on entry, but if a .223 using FMJ just passes through with ¼ diameter holes I would feel this may give me a more versatile rifle. If you were picking?

Rimrock,
Whatever you do, DO NOT shoot FMJ's. With FMJ shot placement is critical and many times we don't have the perfect shot on a coyote. I find the .223 and the 40gr V-Max are perfect. One 22cal entry hole and No Exit, just a hide full of jelly.
I'm also baffled by everyones infactuation with the bolt guns and even more so the big heavy 22-250's. Yes they are fast, and yes they can be accurate, BUT they are also HEAVY. All that accuracy and speed and weight is un-needed for calling coyotes. A good .223 AR is what I consider perfect for all-round coyote work. Stoke it with the fast 40gr bullets and the dogs die. Consider that coyotes typically come in 2-4's to a group. Would you rather be racking a bolt gun while trying to reaquire a target after torching off a big 22-250? Or would you rather simply swing to the next dog and squeeze the trigger of your 18" AR w/ red dot?
You asked for advise on the ALL-ROUND coyote rifle. Consider the price of .204, .22-250 ammo vs. that of the .223? There is a reason why the .223 is the single most popular varmint caliber.... it's cheap to shoot and it GITS'ER DONE. W/ practice, An accurate .223 can smack targets streatching into what is typically thought of .22-250 range. I have 4 .223 Semi-Autos, a Long Range quick twist .22-250 Rem700, as well as a .243 A-Bolt. I rarely shoot the .22-250 and the .243 typically see just Baclktail treestand action.....but the .223's see almost all my coyote action.
My favorite .223 is one of my Mini-14's w/ 3-9x40mm Vari-X II that I accurized. It's lighter, and has a better trigger than my AR and, although not as accurate, will do 1moa with my pet loads, one a 40gr V-Max doing 3500fps from a relatively short 18" barrel. That's certainly good enough for nearly all coyote work. For accurate 300yd work, I go to my Heavy Barrel AR15. This is the rifle I use when working over my friends electronic calls. When I do the calling I use the Mini, it's carbine nature makes it very fast handling. When hunting over a bait such as a farmer dead cow pile, I go to the quick twist .22-250 and 70gr V-Max's. This is typically a "take the high ground" affair where I lay on a knob some 400yds away and wait till they come in to feed.

I say pick the right tool for the job. So first define the job.
I'm sure you'll pick what's right for you. I will expect to see your decision at the 2006 IFish Predator Hunt. So hurry up and get'er bought and git to working with it.
KERRRrrrrrr-POP!
Hunt'nFish

[Abalone]

What a great thread:

Skien, do you have any experience with the .22 hornet and varmits ?

I have hit two Yotes with my .22 mag on two different occasions while hunting sage rats. Once was from Thirty yards and I was a solid lung shot. I heard the hit. Like previously noted, all it did was speed up the dog. I am sure it went some place and layed down and died.

The other time was over 100 yards and it knocked the dog down but he got back up and ran for cover. That was probably a hit further back toward the gut.

So unless you are doing head shots .22 mag aint going to cut it but I wonder about a .22 hornet or the old swift.

Thanks

If I could I would give this thread a very high Rating:

[Beeatease]

Hawk,

It would be nice to have a place to "test fire" rifles. Unless you know someone with them and have a place to shoot you have to take your chances. Handloading helps with accuracy.

I have always thought that a .223/12 gauge o/u would be the ideal coyote gun...if the .223 were dialed in.

Otherwise .223 for under 300 yds and .22-250 over 300yds...

I wonder about a .22 hornet or the old swift

Abalone,

Two different classes of 22 centerfire. Hornet is a bit weak and the Swift is in the same class as 22-250.

[Hawk]

Hawk,

Otherwise .223 for under 300 yds and .22-250 over 300yds...

Thanks for the guideline. Heck, I can't even see them at 300 yards, so it looks like I'll be going with the 223! :tongue:

The gun show is this weekend up at the Expo Center. Is that a place I should be shopping, or should I stick with one of the local dealers (some of whom have booths at the gun show)?

[Beeatease]

I personally use the gun show to look and make a decision on what fits me and to check prices.

The gun show used to be a good place to buy but now they seem to be just as expensive as the local stores....IMHO

Good luck with whatever you decide... :smile: