Full Metal-Jacket Bullets?

[Fishbone]

I was under the impression that it is unlawful to hunt with "full metal-jacket" bullets.

Is this true? If so, why?

If anyone has any information on the topic I would be interested in reading about it.

Thanks.

[Rusty]

I'm sure there are experts out there who can add to my input, but FMJ's are legal for varmits in Oregon. As to other species, I'll defer the the more knowledgeable hunters on this thread.

Rusty

[Gun Rod Bow]

FMJ or Non-Expanding rounds aren't used in hunting for the same reason they are in the Geneva Conventions.

By not expanding, the tend to pass through without major trauma associated with expanding bullets.

I think the reason they are allowed on varmints is they are cheap, and there is not "wanton waste" involved in varmint hunting.

[crabbait]

I think they are allowed for varmints because they tend to leave a much smaller exit wound and less pelt damage.

They are far less effective bullet than an expanding bullet. Much of the energy is expended after the bullet has exited the animal. Also more of a downrange problem.

[ 12-09-2003, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[Bait Bucket]

I don't find anything illegal about them. Shooters need to be a little more careful shooting them because they will ricochet easily.

[billc_sbio]

Here's a couple of "interesting" facts about FMJs and the Geneva Convention...

The "standard" military loaded 139g FMJ designed to be used in the AK-47 and SKS is partially HOLLOW. It uses a Lead core that only fills up about the rear 2/3rds of the bullet (which is also "typical" of many "target" hollow point bullet designs...keeps the weight centered while using the forward jacket mantle to streamline the bullet and give it its shape). When the bullet impacts a solid target, the core "upsets" and shifts forward, where it can't ALL fit. As a result it fills the forward portion of the cavity and is now off balanced. As a result of this it starts TUMBLING, which creates massive tissue damage on soft targets (like human bodies). It was PURPOSEFULLY designed this way!

Now, the AR-15 Prototypes...to be adopted as the M16 & M16A1 were designed with a 1:14" twist rate barrel. This was done with the knowledge of the ballistically similar round, the .222 Rem. Mag.

Using the ORIGINAL designed barrel and the Vietnam era ammo (M193 55g FMJ) the bullet impacting a resisting surface (like a body) it would begin to tumble within the 1st 2" and would literally "explode", just as similar varmint bullets do!

As it worked out, the Army's acceptance board didn't like the poor accuracy out around 200 yards of the "understabilized" bullet and changed the design, increasing the twist rate.

With the "adopted" twist rate, the bullet didn't upset until it had penetrated ~6"...not nearly as devestating as the original "Geneva Convention" allowed designs!

But...I bet some of you out there who have been Medics or Corpsmen could probably relate to how nasty some of those FMJ wounds can be...modern designs have kind of figured out how to "cheat" on the original intentions of the Geneva Convention's protocols on minimizing extreme trauma from bullet wounds.

[ 12-09-2003, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: billc_sbio ]

[Fishbone]

I found an interesting note on the subject in the hunting regulations:

OAR 635-065-0700 "ARMS AND AMMUNITION REQUIREMENTS"

RIFLES

6) Hunters shall not use military or full metal-jacket bullets in original or altered form.

[ajfishfinder]

I have always been lead to believe that a fmj bullet was designed to bore a clean hole through a body. Thus leaving the personell wounded and requiring 2 people to carry them from the battle field, instead of just one to pull the dogtags??