“Real” Hunters???

[rimrock]

Just an observation if you care to read disagree if you like, but I’m finding this forum to be less and less appealing.

If a hunter hunts in any legal fashion there should really be no issue. Regarding earning someone’s self-proclaimed standard of respect I’m not sure how this relates to hunting IMO to me it seems to be more about ego. How mighty of hunters are we all really with our high powered scopes and rifles, compound bows, GPS, high tech clothing… Let’s not make this place into who is and who isn’t a “real” hunter. That’s nothing but egocentric.

Since I hunt primarily wilderness areas at elevation of 10,000 ft solo in Idaho I’m I a “real” hunter – hardly. I don’t like the “real” hunter game since no one is Lewis & Clack here.

Ethics or what’s good for hunting deal with legality. If hunters choose to hunt on a private ranch, fine. Illegal use of LOP tags big problem! Spending money for a lease, put n’take, a guide in Alaska isn’t cheep either I’m sure; if you’re legal you are a hunter to me. That’s the only standard which matters – the rest is about ego IMO.

Since I fish for hatchery salmon too am I only about the “kill”. Hatchery salmon aren’t a bad image in the public eye nor is a guy spending thousands of dollars to go on a select guided hunt in Montana bad for hunting – I’d imagine some here with their lofty standards feel guided hunts aren’t “real” hunters either since I-Fish hunters are akin to the members of the Corps of Discovery 200 years ago. I forgot they used guides??? Too bad they didn’t have 7.5 minutes maps like us.

We should focus on what’s legal and what isn’t (be it illegal use of ATV, LOP tags, game animal waste, partying hunting, poaching…) these are genuine concerns for the sport if we wish to debate. How anyone legally chooses to hunt I wish them the best. Let’s stop looking down our collective noses. My $0.02.

NOTE: Comments not directed at anyone. I’m just seeing what could be an interesting group becoming very divided with whose part of the in-group and who isn’t. It’s a little elitist IMO.

[Washington Hunter]

Agree with much of what you say, but "hunting" inside a fence SHOULD be illegal. (in my opinion)

Some states it is illegal(Montana is one) and other states I am sure it will be soon.

Hatchery salmon? They still go to the ocean, and come back to spawn. They are free to go where they choose. Not a fair comparison to elk in a pen.

[in 'em]

I agree with you rimrock...

However, shooting those fenced deer in texas from your computer IS NOT HUNTING!!! Is this true? I've only heard rumors.

I think everyone would agree that as long as your legal, your a hunter. I would say that certain ways are harder than others though, which would only make it natural to be somewhat egocentric (I guess).

[BrotherWolf]

ditto what Washington Hunter said!


All you end up with fences is shooters Not Hunters!

[Ni!]

I agree for the most part. But if a guy pays $50,000 to shoot a monster bull out of someone's high-fence pasture and then puts it on the wall to prove how great a hunter he is, I'll look down on him.

I won't try to make it illegal, but I won't respect what he did, or what he's trying to say about himself.

Your other points are well-taken though.

Ni!

[Snakebite]

You guys are all wimps! Unless you hunt naked with a big rock, you're degrading the sport.

[Ni!]

You guys are all wimps! Unless you hunt naked with a big rock, you're degrading the sport.

You use a rock?!

Ni!

[edited for clarity]

[MarshBum]

Legal doesn't always mean right.

While Lewis and Clark did have guides, I have a huge advantage with my Terraserver Sat Maps, GPS, Gortex, etc...

I feel sometimes ethics are stretched to accommodate laziness.

Perhaps I'm just a traditionalist.

Just my $0.02. Not directed at anyone.

MarshBum

[Salmo trutta]

You use a rock?!

Ni!

[edited for clarity]

You guys are just too elite for me. At least I wear a loin cloth and have an obsidian tipped spear. (tied on with sinew by the way)

[Washington Hunter]

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical, or right.

It's legal to shoot at ducks 100 yards away, as they're going in to the guys in the next blind over.

It's legal to shoot deer at a half mile with a 243.

It's legal to launch arrows into a herd of elk 150 yards away.

Here in Washington it's legal to hunt deer and elk with a 9mm semi automatic handgun.

Doesn't mean we should do those things just because there's no law against it.

[Bait O' Eggs]

We all agree there are different legal ways to kill an elk.

If somebody does it with a $50,000 check, or packs into some remote country, either way they killed the elk.

Just dont expect me to have the same respect for somebody who paid to kill a big bull on 2 acres, as the guy who hiked into a wilderness area 5 miles and killed a "wild" bull on public land.

Kind of like when a major country boycotts the olympics, an asterick goes next to the winners name. Kill an elk on private ground, behind a locked gate, or in a fence and you get an asterick in my book.

[ehunter]

I agree my respect for some one who does it the hard way is greater than the person who pays a big fee to shoot 300 class bull in a pasture. If it is legal fine I am not going to knock that but I don't have the same or any respect for that kind of killing not sure it should be refered to as hunting.

I think that hunting is losing some aspect of enjoying the hunt and success is not always measured in the size of the horns. Coming from a guy eating tag soup this year :grin:.

Rimrock the thing I like about this forum is all the diverse idea's I see. As long as people hunt legaly I can't really knock how they do it. I may not agree with their method and there are things I would like to see changed but at least we can all talk about it here and express our different views.

[rimrock]

However, shooting those fenced deer in texas from your computer IS NOT HUNTING!!! Is this true? I've only heard rumors.

HA! :smile: I don’t know if it's true either, but it makes no difference to me. Ni and others your points are well taken, what are they trying to say with their $50K bull??? Maybe their ego needs boasting as well just like the other “real” hunters. And maybe not I have no idea.

I just don’t like seeing a type of class warfare. Where is the line really drawn between the “real” hunter and the one who isn’t? Why do we care? IMO, and it’s just that my opinion, it says more about ego than hunting. In other words it’s a way of making us feel a little bit superior since we do it the right way. I just don’t know what the right way is.

Are you a real duck hunter if you buy plastic decoys, wear a specially made camo jacket and waders, commercial made duck calls, have a boat with a motor…or are you a real duck hunter if you make your own decoys out of reeds, carve out your own boat and paddle it?

The “real” hunter game is to me about individually being better than someone else. If it is and this is true, I’ll just say you’re all better hunters than me if that helps.

The only significant line which I think we should all care about is if something is illegal. If anyone has a concern or question for example regarding the use of game farms that’s just fine, it just may be best to argue it from a biological perspective rather than an elitist “real” hunter one. Again only my opinion.

When we play the “real” hunter game I just don’t know who that really is??? For me it’s kind of a sad situation and does nothing for the sport. Who here has been perfect in the field, without one error in judgment ever??? Forced a shot, lost any animal, whatever. When you starting thinking you’re a “real” hunter to me all your saying is you’re the ultimate example of how it should be. That’s having a pretty lofty opinion. We love being able to look down on people because it can make us look better. What's the value in that? Another $0.02.

[in 'em]

Behind a locked gate??? I hunt behind locked gates all the time...when the land is open to walk in access. It seems to be one way to get away from other hunters. Is timber co. land considered to be easier than BLM or Nat. Forest?

I would say that as long as the animals aren't fenced in (or tame) it's fair chase. I suppose there are many exeptions with ranches and all, but I'm thinking of Western Oregon...not other states.

[Washington Hunter]

rimrock, I understand what you're saying and I agree. But, killing an animal on a game farm is NOT hunting, because there is no "hunt" involved...the animals are there and that is known. So it can't possible qualify as hunting, whether legal/ethical or not. So a person killing an elk on a game farm is a shooter, nothing more. Definitely not a "real" hunter. There should be no question about that. He may dress like a hunter, talk like a hunter, look like a hunter, and claim to be a hunter, but he's not, at least not at the time of killing that particular animal.

[baltz526]

We should focus on what’s legal and what isn’t (be it illegal use of ATV, LOP tags, game animal waste, partying hunting, poaching…) these are genuine concerns for the sport if we wish to debate. How anyone legally chooses to hunt I wish them the best. Let’s stop looking down our collective noses. My $0.02.

yes, this is the root of the issue, but lets put a lot of ethical hunting into the legal hunting methods.

[Swamp Puppy]

Well said Rimrock. and for those that supposedly agree there really shouldn't be any "buts" about it. if it's legal and you enjoy doing it then no one has the right to judge or tell someone otherwise. if you don't like it or don't agree with it..fine. don't do it. but don't tell ME or anyone else that THEY shouldn't do it because YOU don't like it.

[Bait O' Eggs]

When I referred to locked gate I thought it was clear what I meant

I walk in behind locked gates myself when allowed.

Its the "hunter" who has a key to that gate that drives in and hunts when everybody else walks in. Walkers are typically limited in how far they can get in, that key and a truck opens up the whole road system in a matter of minutes.

I come from an area of those with keys, and those without keys. Those with, can brag all they want, its a semi private thing they are doing and gets an asterick in my book.

All those locked gates you see on the west side during bow season with absolutely no entry signs posted, well those with keys are behind the gate with trucks hunting, while you read the sign and leave because you cant walk in.

[rimrock]

I do appreciate how people are taking my comments with class. I respect the people here I truly mean no offense. I’ve never hunted with any of you so I’m not trying to presume anything.

Just don’t we all like a little modesty? Many times I find it greatly lacking especially here. We all like hunting with a guy who doesn’t think he’s better than anyone else. Who likes the archery hunter who says he is the real hunter and thumbs his nose at the rifle hunter who shoots an elk at 300 yards? Neither do I think it’s of any value to say a guy who hunts in a “canned hunt” situation isn’t as good as me.

I guess this is more about my style – I hate ego. Who am I to say I’m better than anyone else? I’m far from the standard in life or the prototype hunter.

I find it unimportant to boast or to set the bar of respect for a legal hunt. I’m not a “real” hunter I’m just a guy who likes to hunt and spending time hunting with people who aren’t the “real” hunters either.

[Joe Schmo]

I really wanted to go after my doe tag next year w/ my 9mm. that's not legal??! I would have thought it qualifies as a centerfire?? Not to mention the close range. Yes we all cheat but as many of us know even with our GPS, cover scent, hi-tech camo, etc. a lot of us never get close to our prey. (i.e. me for Elk first archery season, didn't as much as smell one!) Good post r.r

[Abalone]

I can assure you that If I were hunting for food to survive like they did in the olden days most of the laws and ethics you are talking about are going out the window.

Ever been hungry ? I mean really hungry.

Do you think the Donner party was worried about ethics ?

[Ni!]

rimrock, I would think if you hate ego, you wouldn't think much of the guy on the canned hunt. What other reason is he paying that money for than to be seen as a great hunter when he comes home with that giant rack? That's what bothers me, and I suspect we're more on the same page with this than you'd like to admit. Most buffalo (bison) hunts are on a par with canned hunts as far as the skill involved, but they don't involve the ego factor much if at all. They're about the meat, and a real cool bison robe to drape over the couch. That's cool with me, and the difference is primarily in the reason behind the hunt, not with the difficulty or sporting quality.

As I said earlier, I agree with most of what you're saying, although I think your formulation has glossed over some of the good points that Washington Hunter made about unethical conduct that is also legal. The reports recently by baltz526 and BOE are evidence that there are more than enough "hunters" out there who are technically legal, but certainly not worthy of our respect.

Like I said, we probably agree on this mostly, but I wanted to clarify a couple of things.

Ni!

[Sled Dog]

Everyone has a different definition of what hunting is or should be. Unfortunatly, unlike many cultures we don't have multiple words for vary similar if not practicality identical things. Take for instance the eskimo's multiple words for snow, they have dozens of words for the different types of what we would just call snow. I believe the term "hunting" or "Hunter" is much the same. We are hamstrung by our inability to differentiate in a non judgemental way the vast chasm of difference between "harvesting" an animal in a finite enclosure and "hunting" a free ranging wild animal. My grandfather always refered to himself as a "sportsman", he would say anyone can be a "hunter" but it takes more than a tag and a gun to be a "sportsman"

[rimrock]

rimrock, I would think if you hate ego, you wouldn't think much of the guy on the canned hunt. What other reason is he paying that money for than to be seen as a great hunter when he comes home with that giant rack? That's what bothers me, and I suspect we're more on the same page with this than you'd like to admit.

I agree Ni. I didn’t think I said anything to the contrary, but maybe I did. I’d expect you’re right about it regarding ego too, but it’s not really the point. What I mean is he claiming to be a great hunter or the hunter on public ground claming to be the true great/real hunter is equally egocentric to me. Who is the great hunter? Why do people care? For me I grow weary of bravado and looking down on another hunter even if he is legally hunting. I just don’t get it. What really is the point besides attempting to look better in your own eyes?

You even see it at check stations, people thinking they’re the man and the like. The amount of ego around isn’t a rarity. I’m just a little tired of the posturing. It’s probably just me. This is much different than posts regarding something illegal and causing problems like ATVs in non-motorized areas conflicting with hunts I’d agree with being upset.

It’s irrelevant to me how great or real of a hunter someone is. I just don’t get into the game of whose better be it a canned hunt, public ground, private land, how many elk you’ve shot, limits of birds or anything about I-Boast. You hunt legally and take responsibly for your actions that’s enough.

[Ni!]

Yep. I think we're on the same page here. Just different ways of saying it.



Ni!

[Maddie'sDaddy]

My grandfather always refered to himself as a "sportsman", he would say anyone can be a "hunter" but it takes more than a tag and a gun to be a "sportsman"

[/quote]

[Hunt'nFish]

I'm gonna stay out of this one. Otherwise I'll just get myself in trouble.
Hunt'nFish

[Big TULE]

Last time i checked i hunt for the meat... Not for others respect.

If i worry about your respect for me i will live a short unhappy life.

Hunt the way you want to as long as it is within the law.
If hunting behind a fence is illegal then don't do it...
If it is legal and you can afford it more power to you, 1 less person i have to compete with to get my elk, deer etc.

The more i read the less i want to associate with some, because i wonder if i disagree with you how will you react...
If you disagree with me, i will listen to and respect your stance, you are entitled to it.

I think with the larger number of hunters people have gotten a little ruffled because of reduced opportunity and feel because they have been hunting for 1-70 years in a certain place they have more right to hunt there than a new guy...

[rimrock]

Nicely put BT

[Pond]

You put 100 hunters in a room and ask for an opinion of what a real hunter is and your going to get 100 different answers. And of course here's my humble opinion...about the best we can ask for is "legal" hunting makes a real hunter. Those that are not legal are not hunters but "poachers" or violators. It's all about RESPECT!...for the resource and eachother. Those without respect need the ego to fill good. And use whatever method they can to fill there ego. You name the game and there will always be those who respect it and those who don't.

Pond

[Pond]

PS: Canned hunts in Oregon are illegal. ehunting, the internet hunts were you shoot an animal from your computer is currently illegal in Oregon. I sat in a commission hearing for testimony on a few issues and no one stood up and spoke on it's behalf. Even though someone introduced it.

Joe Schmo, look in the Oregon hunting regs. If you have a 600 series deer tag you can hunt with your 9mm.

Pond

[dla]

Since I hunt primarily wilderness areas at elevation of 10,000 ft solo in Idaho I’m I a “real” hunter – hardly. I don’t like the “real” hunter game since no one is Lewis & Clack here.

What do you hunt at 10K? Mosquitoes? :smile:

Part of the decline in the sport of hunting has come about because of the "intolerance" amoungst hunters. Special-interest groups are created for "hunters", whose function is to lobby the Commission and the Legislature for "special rules". Eventually hunting will become a "sport of kings" in Oregon.

[baltz526]

Joe Schmo, look in the Oregon hunting regs. If you have a 600 series deer tag you can hunt with your 9mm.

as long as it has a clip capacity of five rounds for any semiauto centerfire weapon

[TonTo]

OK I didn't realy want to get into this,not too sure if I'm a "real" hunter,been known to be a reel hunter during the right sale,ahh nevermind...
What I think it boils down to,just an opinion,is the "real" hunter has respect for the hunt,and a respect for the game which he hunts.That said even in a canned hunt the "shooter" may have a great deal of respect for the magestic animal he chooses to harvest and pays to do so.On the other hand,the man that put the animal in the fence to begin with has lost all my respect.

[traks44]

I have been extremly fortunate as to the hunting opportunities God has choosen to give me. Since I was a little kid all I wanted to do was kill big trophy animals, I have never ounce wasted an animal and dont plan too. At the age of 19 I have killed more trophy animals than many will even see in lifetime. As far back as I can remember all I have wanted to do was hunt. I find ways to stay active during off seasons such as shed hunt, coyote hunt, and scout whenever my school work or priorities allow. Not only do I hunt, but I feel it is my job to give back to wildlife. We have fenced off many miles of creek for birds, we stop going into the mountains during winter to leave the elk alone during critical times. We have developed our place in pilot rock almost specifically for bird habitat. I take as many people as I can hunting, to share with them what I have been so fortunate to grow up with and I am getting to where I would much rather see someone else enjoy the experience and be successful than myself. I can honest to goodness say I have no pre-judgements about anyone on here and even hope to be able to hunt or fish with a few.

I have never thought about whether or not I am a "hunter". I dont really need to, I mean I know exactly what it means to me and how fortunate I have been so what else matter. Taking unethical shots or whatever the problem may be. I dont think about stuff like that afield. I can either make the shot or not. With so much controversy over public land access I am doing every thing I can to help preserve the land for future generations both public and private. I never question whether or not I am a hunter or a sportsman, I guess I have never had too.

[Maverick Maxcat]

I'm glad to see I'm not alone with my perception of hunting. Rimrock, Big TULE, and Pond explain it well. Hunting is NOT a COMPETITION. It is an accomplishment. I hunt for me, no one else. In addition to legalities, I have my own guiding priciples to go by. I really don't give a rat's behind what others think of me as a hunter, fisherman, or anything else. If I have the respect of the guy I see in the mirror every morning, I'm good to go. Since it's not a competition, I don't care how well someone else does. It does not affect MY accomplishments. If I enjoy my hunt and respect myself I had a good experience. If someone does something legal and different that I wouldn't do, so what. As long as they don't force me to violate my principles. Their principles are the ones they choose to live with, and they must respect themselves. My opinion of them should not matter to them. If they are pleased with their accomplishments, then they are successful, period. Congradulate them and share their moment. To do otherwise only makes you look bad.

[Rank Amateur]

I guess I'm a little dense or maybe its having been up for 15 hours. RR, are you trying to say that a hunter (shooter)that takes a bull out of a canned hunt, is equal to people who hunt free ranging elk and we should not look down our nose at that?

I suppose I come off as self-righteous, let's just say I work at it! I am proud of the bulls that I have taken, doing it legally. Does this put me above others, well I guess that would matter what measuring stick you use. For me, taking bulls legally and ethically, carrys a fairly tall measuring stick, which many fail to measure up too. Does this make me a great elk hunter, well I am ahead of the game in comparison to others, but heck, there are a lot better elk hunters than me! As far as I'm concerned it is not up to me to measure myself, that will be done by others, I know deep down how I have conducted myself in the woods and have shown respect to the animals that I have harvested.

I do reserve the right to judge others, using my measuring stick. Sorry if you don't like the stick I measure with, thats life. If you take 20 bulls in canned hunts, you are not going to measure up in my opinion. If you take that great wall hanger, but used the wifes tag to do it, you will get looked at down my nose.

I guess this is what they call peer pressure. If you are a legal and ethical hunter and haven't taken a bull yet, I would still be glad to meet you and proud to call you a fellow sportsman.

So is my mind just fried and I missed the whole point or have you been dancing around what I just blurted out?

[sunshinefisherman]

Wheewee, you do like to live dangerously don't you?

Well, I agree with you and applaud your frankness. If it's a legal method, it's OK. If you think it's not OK, you are free to say so as long as you are not disparaging or uncivil. If you something is immoral or unethical, you are free to try to change the laws or move to a place where you agree with the laws.

BT has it right, low drag = low stress = long happy life.

To paraphrase, you will live longer if you mind your own business.

After all, you need to take the plank out of your own eye before you can help your neighbor with the speck in his eye.

[StevenB]

Rank I think your points are well taken. Then again I have the opposite problem you do. Not awake long enough.

I thought that rimrock wants this forum to quit comparing each others joys of lawful hunting.

I think the HUNT for the real hunter can be a tool for self motivation. A way to try a little harder when one is getting a little discouraged. It can work for someone who is hunting on foot, sitting on a stand, or riding a fuel powered vehicle looking for game.

After a while of using that motivational tool to find "the real hunter" I think sometimes something else happens. It's very possible that one starts to believe they have defined what the real hunter is.

In fact they have just learned a form of hunting that they like a lot. It can become like a cult religion to a hunter if they are careless in thought. It can include thinking they have more rights to public land access than someone else or can take the form of looking down on a certain way of even legal hunting.

Who hasn't had a total stranger say to them "I've been hunting here for (Fill in the Blank) years." It's my opinion there are two good ways to direct the conversation after such a statement is made.

If the person says it in a kind friendly sort of way one can safely ask all sorts of questions.

If the person says it with a lot of pride or in boast I think there is nothing left to say except "So you've hunted this area for "X" number of years? What did you do loose a bet?"

All seriousness aside though I think we all ought to know the real reasons for hunting aren't going to be the same for everyone. A good observation on rimrocks part. Or that's what I read in rimrocks post.

It can be difficult for me to try to stay open to trying different forms of hunting while going about hunting the way I've learned to like best. I think coming to this and other hunting forums gives me the chance to make hunting something more gregarious than it usually is for me.

If I step on a few feet or annoy someone I figure it's a good way for me to evaluate my priorities.

I Say Good Thread & Both Thumbs Up.

StevenB

[Bait O' Eggs]

Rank

I guess since its legal to go to Rainbow trout farms and catch trout, the guy at work who doesnt own a fishing rod and takes the family out to the concrete ponds at Rainbow once a year is a "real" fisherman.

He dont classify as a real fisherman on my measuring stick. If he does on yours, then I guess, good for you.

[Hunt'nFish]

Rank,

Although I hate to admit it, hunting is a competition.
We compete for the tags even before the hunt.
We compete for the best camp spots, and the best territory.
And when the hunt starts we compete against each other and the animals themselves. Those who don't think it is are kidding themselves.
I wish it weren't this way. It would be nice if we had the whole place to ourselves, no other hunters around. Elk and deer everywhere with little fear of man, someone to drive us right up to the animals and point out which 400 or 500 class bull to shoot. But it isn't that way and if it were, it's certainly wouldn't be hunting! In other words a high $$ hunt on private land is not hunting, it's shooting. I'm with Rank on this one.

The fella that dons a backpack and dissappears into the woods after weeks of scouting and planning is the real hunter. Shoot even my family with our pack animals don't hunt as hard as many. And we certainly don't work as hard once they are on teh ground. No... for me, I rank hunters by the level of difficulty not by the # of points.
Hunt'nFish

[Maverick Maxcat]

BOE,

Try a whole different angle. Who cares if the guy is a "real fisherman" or not? If he takes his family out, they catch fish, and have a good time, he was successful and accomplished something good. Maybe, one day, they will develop a desire to pursue trout in a different way, or other fish as well. Is there a line they have to cross to meet your approval? Why do you even care what they do? Let them enjoy fishing their way, be glad to help them grow in the sport if they wish to expand their techniques. This is recreation, not a job or a competition. If you loose sight of that fact, you're out there for the wrong reasons. If you want to prove you can go farther and faster than others, run a marathon. Shoot better? Go to a trap/skeet/benchrest competition. There are contests for all kinds of fishing, dog trials, horse trials, etc, etc. Go ahead and rank your competitors in competition, leave the recreationalists to themselves. It's a whole different world.

[Abalone]

Canned hunts ! When I first heard of this it cracked me up,

So why not go to a farm or ranch and pay a farmer to let you shoot a cow. He could then cut an wrap it for you.
Wouldn't that be fun...?

Wouldn't you like to have a Herfer head mounted on your wall ?

Think of the stories you could tell your friends.

Hunt any way you want. For me it's about the hunt not the kill....

Hunting is called a sport and if you do it right it is.

[Maverick Maxcat]

Hunt'nFish,

I don't agree entirely with your position. Hunting can DEGENERATE into a competition, especially to get the best duckblind or drive a patch first. Same with tag allocations, camping spots, etc. This is due to overcrowding, and is not the basic nature of hunting.

Hunting does not have to be easy! I have gone many places I'm sure no one else has visited for many years, hunted many weeks without seeing another hunting party, due to distance or terrain difficulty to access the areas. The animals were not tame by any means, and usually not numerous. I hunted those spots because that's the way I wanted to do it, not to best anyone else. If someone shoots a bigger critter out of a clearcut, without sweating gallons, good on them! It does not change my accomplishment. At the same time, I am not "better" than they are. I don't like to stand hunt, even if it works better than other methods. Let each individual enjoy their own (legal) experience without criticism from others.

[Snakebite]

This has gone too far. If one hunts within the laws and regulations, so be it. If one wants to choose a more challenging way to do so, so be it. Those who claim to be better than others because of their ethics, tactics, motives, or otherwise, need to understand that not everybody has your fantasy in focus. The only time I went bow hunting for anything, I ran into a guy in the forest, who had about a half a dozen knives strapped to his bow, and a half a dozen others strapped to himself. Pretty weird. But how can anyone complain about that behaviour when it's leagal.???

[GL2]

Diversity, is the dirty word here. :blush:
You got road hunters doing there thing, and enjoying themselves.
You got hunters like me, I'll get into the bush from sun up to dark. Backpack full of supplies, can spike camp if I
have to. I admit I look down my nose at the road guys, hunting should be work. :shocked:
Then you got hunters like the Ifisher who offered me a hunt, that I wimped out on. I'm still regreting not going.
Dude, hikes in solo for 2 and a half miles from the nearest road, sets up a spike camp under a tarp tied between trees and hunts for days. Sleeping in the open air, hearing bulls bugle almost on top of him during the night.
I wimped out cuz, I all ready had a lingering congestion from a cold. Sleeping in the open air would have left me hacking during the hunt, I was fighting it as it was.
Does he look down at me? I have no clue.
Well he's more hardcore than me, so if he does I won't fault him.
He works his rear off so why should I grudge him, feeling pride in that.
How a person shows that pride, can sometimes be a issue.
So to all you that know your a true hunter, and don't have a ego trip about it.

GL2

[Cosmic Lazy Susan]

How a person shows that pride, can sometimes be a issue.

Bingo!

Dale

[Rank Amateur]

So let me get this straight, I can complain about people who "break the law", but not about the people who are legal. So let the canned hunters hunt and brag. Let the 1,000 yard club guys shoot across canyons and then walk away when nothing falls. Let the ATV'ers run over other hunters, because it is legal. Let guys take risky shots while taking a bull out of a herd or shoot a buck from between the ears of a Doe. What kind of hunting world do you want to hunt in? Without ethics, our sport will become more obscene than it is already.

I think people don't want people spewing ethics because they are afraid they will not measure up. Sure we are not the same and will do things differently, not quite sure how a guy with knives strapped to a bow is legal or ethical, but we all have different tactics or methods. As long as we respect the game animals and other hunters that we share the field with, that is all we can ask. But for many that is a tall order and that is probably the crux of this whole argument.

[Wreckless]

Diversity....Novel concept.............

This thread has proven to me that we have a BUNCH of great hunters / sportsman among us......Different beliefs, yes, but GOOD PEOPLE

You guys/gals can share a seat in my blind anytime...I may have to add on if you all show at once!!!!

Real hunters are in the eye of the beholder. I have my beliefs and they are pretty strong, but they are MINE, I'll respect yours unless it's illegal or (dare I say) immoral (MY BELIEFS).

:lurk:

[Washington Hunter]

0

[Rank Amateur]

I've shot a bunch of cans, does that count??
How about eating out of a can while on a hunt??


Yes, I picked them up afterwards.

[ehunter]

1. Couldn't afford it. 2 Not interested. 3. Not sporting to me. Fair chase comes into mind. Also the challenge is questionable.

[Hunt'nFish]

how many here have gone on a canned hunt. Anybody willing to 'fess up?

I will....
Some may not view this as a canned hunt but I did & do.
It was a pheasant/chukar hunt over out of Arlington. I think some of you may know where I'm talking. It's a pen raised & release hunt. Birds are let loose before the hunters go out and then ya just go out and let the dog find'em and ya shoot'em.
I was a guest invite on this corporate deal. Growing up in E.Oregon I had a real big problem with this in my mind. But I went anyway because they were going to do a round of clays prior to hunting and I like a round of informal clays to hone my own skills. I also figured I'd carry my camera and play the role of photographer for them. Sounds good. One problem.... they were having a whole lot of fun and once I got past this mental block and just accepted that this wasn't "REALLY" hunting, I had a lot of fun. We killed a bunch of birds, 25% of which were wild offspring from the "ones that got away". These dogs they had were so good that both the dog & I caught chukar in mid air, him with his mouth and me w/ my bare hand. Don't know if they were wild or not, because I threw the bird up in the air for the others to shoot and the dog dropped his when I did and everyone was laughing so hard they both got away.
No sportsman there that day!

This is a canned hunt in my mind. Wouldn't you agree?
Does it make it wrong or not?? I don't know. I have to admit I had A LOT of fun. But it wasn't really hunting and shouldn't be called that.
So there ya got it, I'm not the purest sportsman.

There's not a lot of differance between that and private ranch hunts for other animals. Every advantage is given to the hunters. Not exactly what I'd call sporting. Legal? Yes.
Hunt'nFish

[Boatfool]

Hunting, like anything in life is what you make of it.Is someone that plans on hiking into his spot 2 miles from the truck and happens to shoot an animal only 200 yards into the walk,is he less of a hunter than if he had made it to his intended area.

My girlfriend drew an Idaho unit 11 Bighorn tag this year and got high 180's sheep in what would be considered an easy hunt by most people.Spotted from the snake river,couple hours of stalking,long pack out to the boat,done.Her dad had a Bighorn tag in another unit,hired someone to drop him off on the Salmon river with what he could carry on his back and spent a week hunting alone in the wilderness.Never spotted a legal ram and came home empty.Is he more of a true hunter for it?Not in his eyes or mine.

I have shot some nice whitetail bucks that looking back I probably should have never even taken a shot at due to the distance.I look back and my fondest kill was of a doe I shot when I was younger.Why?Because it was the cleanest shot Ive ever made and would take that shot anytime.Some of those big bucks I am not so proud of now.I was raised with a very strict code of ethics when it came hunting and fishing and in my late teens may have pushed the limits of what I knew was right,but never broke the law.As I have matured I find myself imposing even stricter guidelines on myself than my father did,and i can sleep well with the choices I make in the outdoors and in my life as a whole.

If you are not breaking the law and can look in the mirror at the end of the day and feel proud of yourself then who am I to judge you whether it be as a hunter,sportsman, or as a decent person in general.

Boatfool

[in 'em]

I rifle hunt AND bow hunt...and I'll admit that it takes more skill and work to bow hunt. Just like it takes more skill and work with fair chase vs. private ranch hunts. We can all agree, right?

How is this for a list of hardest to easiest...oh this oughta be good!

1.Naked with a rock
2.stick, spear, hand made bow and arrow, etc

okay now for the real stuff...
3. Long Bow wooden arrows
4. Recurve wooden arrows
5. Compound no sights shooting fingers
6. Compound no sights with a release
7. Compound sights, shooting fingers
8. Compound with the works
9. Pistol
10. Shotgun with slug
11. Shotgun w scope
12. Smoke pole
13. Muzzleloader with scope
14. Rifle open sights
15. Rifle w/ a normal scope
16. Rifle w/ a ridiculous scope!
17. shooting sticks
18. tripod
19. sittin' at your computer clickin the mouse!
20. well, I dun ran out of thoughts ...what did I miss?

Then you gotta account for the game, season, weather, altitude, property, fences, gates, 4 wheelers, oh so much more!!!

Someone should come up with a point system so we can all see how “REAL” of hunters we are! :grin:

[StevenB]

I think the idea is to stick together here. To be galvanized as hunter and watch over our outdoor interest. Our interests against those who do not hunt at all and yet want to rule how, where, or if one hunts.

So if a fellow shoots on a put and take site or property they know they are not going to have to be as savey as they will have to be in a Willamette Valley corn field to shoot a bird.

Same with a guy like Lars Larson the talk show host on KXL. He talks of going to a ranch where he can shoot an elk. I'm sure L Larson isn't going to think that makes him as capable as a fellow who can take off with his gear and take an elk on public lands for about 20 years in a row.

If a hunter wants to play the game of who is a real hunter I suggest in public they keep it to a standard like the B&C Record books do.

A fellow I know thought there ought to be two Boone & Crocket Books. One for animals taken on large fence free ranches and one for hunts on public lands. I called the B & C office to hear there take. They understood the view but believed to split the scores into any classification would create a devision within the big game hunting faturnity. It could also cause a lack of interest in hunters who can afford a private ranch hunt. That would leave the ranch lands open to non wildlife friendly land use.

Even the B&C Association has its standards. If you shoot a big game animal in a fenced area or one that is drugged or restrained it is not a real hunt. I can live with that.

As for hunting with a rock I know of a guy who's dad did kill his buck with a large caliber rock. He wasn't naked though...

SB

[ehunter]

He wasn't naked though...doesn't count maybe he would get a few points for a tarzen yell we will have to check the book.

It could also cause a lack of interest in hunters who can afford a private ranch hunt. I still don't see a problem. :grin:

I am just joking

[StevenB]

Thanks ehunter. I forget to joke around sometimes.

[Big TULE]

Still not sure if i care what others think of me and how i hunt.
As for getting naked when i hunt... HMMMM never...

[waterfowlin101]

I think next year I'm going to hunt Rooster Rock State Park during September goose season....NAKED! Heck I'd fit right in with the locals and blend in with the sand!!

Jon