Descent tuna spin reel?

id. painter · 11-07-2005, 07:42 AM

My primary boat mate's are 13 years old and have not spent much time casting a bait casting level wind reel.
I am proficient but I can easly see the excitment of a boil causing an "unfixable nest" backlash with the boys trying to cast .
I have been shoping around and I see shimano's from 68$ up to 600 $ .
Im interested in staying as light as possible and considering the 200$ Thannus(sp?) at about 29 oz.
What say you ???
id. p.

djchaser · 11-07-2005, 08:04 AM

I used a Bait Runner on Trackers boat last year and found it worked,but it was a bit harder to land the fish.

Hammer Down · 11-07-2005, 08:06 AM

Id. P.

The only one that I have used (and would recommend) is the Penn spinning reels. I have an older (non-skirted spool type) 712Z. These are extremely durable and strong reels and would highly recommend them. They have the same drag washers (material wise) as the penn conventionals (HT100).

I spend a lot of time surf fishing and have taken apart and modified just about every spinning reel out there. Most are junk. The penn's are real workhorses, but they have one weakness in particular. The line roller or bail roller. These almost never turn and they are too small in my opinion. The small diameter forces the line to a very acute angle, which in the heat of a TUNA! run can generate a lot of heat. The end result...busted line. You need to make every effort to keep the rollers moving freely. That and fresh line every trip (sometimes in mid trip!)

Ultimately conventional reels are the best (drag and performance wise) but the Penn spinning reels are a good compromise.

The shimano 'dual-drag' or 'bait-drag' models...the first or 'bait' drag is so weak and so small that it is virtually worthless. I have never seen one last. Definitely not in a TUNA! application.

The only other reel that I would say can handle a TUNA! run is a Van Staal. These are exceptional reels and can easily compete with some of the best conventional reels, but like anything...you pay for this functionality, dearly.

I wouldn't spend my money on any others. (But I would fish anything, after all what's the worst that can happen...a lost fish?)

Spoonplugger · 11-07-2005, 08:18 AM

Penn 706Z

http://www.pennreels.com/01_products...3_z_series.htm

The 706z is bailess, which is tougher.

id. painter · 11-07-2005, 08:21 AM

O.K. my next question.
I picked up a Penn spin reel and used it for tuna . I liked the drag and teh reel over all but after two fish I noticed that the line was not wrapping evenly up and down the spool. It was stacking it toward the botton of the spool and it was bad enough that if the line had "rolled " forward it would have been a real mess.

After getting back home I took the reel apart inspected it for anything obvious.and relined it . Started it again.

Any advice there. id. p.

Hammer Down · 11-07-2005, 09:07 AM

Id. P.

Yes, the one thing that you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT DO with a spinning reel, is reel it when line is being pulled from it. Each time the bail goes around, it puts another twist in the line and you move the position of the spool. Remember, the spool goes up and down the bail stays stationary. When you reel against line that is being pulled you are repositioning the spool.

Typically line ends up at the bottom of the spool, because this is the most rigid position. Do this enough times and yes, you will end up with all the line in one place and as you note, if the line does flop over...game over. Cut it off and replace.

Another situation that can cause this...if you 'rebuild' the reel and don't put the drag washers in correctly you will throw off the position of the spool to the bail. If the line is ending up at the bottom, then the spool is spending too much time too high on the spindle. Look for drag washers incorrectly loaded or to many of them.

On the Penn website they have good schematics of the reels. Print the one off that applies to you and keep it handy. I would start there. If like you said there was some 'younger people' using it, then they most likely were reeling against line being pulled out. It's a hard habit to break, and it's really the hardest thing about using a spinning reel. True they cast almost mindlessly, but you can't reel them mindlessly like you can a conventional. (No level-winds here, we're talking off shore "Real Fishing"!)

id. painter · 11-07-2005, 09:19 AM

Thanks Hammer.
There was no reeling agenst the drag.
I landed one fish on it and another by Liprip'r.
Drag washer in wrong place ,maybe,Ill check it .

Thanks again. id. p.

id. painter · 11-07-2005, 01:15 PM

Just checked the schematic and it looks fine.

id. p.

Lip Rip'r · 11-07-2005, 01:34 PM

Chris,

Does the spool seem to be moving in and out correctly when reeling? What about with a little pressure/resistance on it?

It sounds like the spool isn't moving back in all the way. Maybe it is worn or there is something in the way blocking it.

Then again, maybe it just couldn't handle them TUNA! and gave up..

LR_

backlash442 · 11-07-2005, 02:30 PM

Won't you have the winter to practice casting? Not that hard to learn and conventional reels are so much better imo. Besides it's not like you need to cast 200ft. If the fish boil they are usually pretty close. Heck most times we just flip the bait out and keep the reel out of gear. No casting involved.

tracker · 11-07-2005, 03:30 PM

The baitrunner reel DJ is talking about is made for tuna. It has a freespool feature just for live bait. That said there is no substitute for a good bait casting reel. Get those kids out there practicing. We do have several months till the skill is needed. What better time to remove birds nests than now and not in the middle of a hot bite. I made all my kids learn to drive a stickshift before they could drive the easy automatic. Learn the hard stuff first. Otherwise it many times dont get learned.

Anthony1013 · 11-07-2005, 04:47 PM

Sounds like a quote from Tred Barta...

id. painter · 11-08-2005, 06:32 AM

Good points .

I looked closly at the motion of the spool and it is not comming in all the way , it stops short on the in- swing . The line never gets close to the top of the spool.
Nothing seems out except that adjustment . ?

I grew up with a spin reel in my hands Mitchell 300.
Have owned dozens over the years.
Somewhere around 1979 I started steelhead fishing with a level (bait caster).
I have penn's from 113H to 330GTI , Abu's ,Shimano's and wore many out completely, But,,, even with left handed reel the levels have never felt confortable to me. Having the weight of the reel on top of the rod has always made it feel unbalanced to me. Top heavy and not natural,,,, that is the main reason Im such a mooching reel fan for salmon. Every thing (reel weight) is back under the rod where it wants to be .
Ill have both types of reels set up for casting , Ill have to boys learn how to pitch a level and it will all be good. Get a couple Calstar's and bust fom fish.
Reel goes back to penn. Arggg.
Thanks to all.
id.p.

skein · 11-08-2005, 06:47 AM

Man, I'm glad I don't know any better. I bought a couple of Fin-Nor 207's off that auction site for about $30 each and they seem to be holding up pretty well. The last time out we landed five tuna on one and it didn't smoke or die or twist. Yes, we were careful not to reel when we couldn't get line back, but as far as the drag and gears, it seemed to hold up just fine.

We also had pretty good luck with our fishtraps holding up for more than one or two fish so maybe we were in a school of "kinder, gentler albacore." :grin:

My preference is still a baitcasting rig like a little Squidder or my Avet, but for newbies aboard who haven't mastered a baitcaster the big coffee grinders work pretty well.

Skein

id. painter · 11-08-2005, 07:32 AM

Fin, Nor. 30$ Tell me more . id. p.

skein · 11-08-2005, 07:46 AM

Not much to tell. I just did a search on Fin-Nor and looked through the selections. These were two brand-new reels that nobody else seemed to want.

Even a blind squirrel....

Skein

Hammer Down · 11-08-2005, 11:30 AM

Id. P.

If all the spool workings are correct then take a look at the large ring gear in the bottom of the gear case where the spindle itself attaches to it. Some of these are adjustable (some are even held in place with a simple set screw!), if it is gear meshed and if you get the relationship off by only a couple of teeth this will allow the spool to not travel up high enough to wind the line on properly. Some reels simply are attached to this ring gear others are actually toothed to it. Be aware...most spinning reels are DESIGNED to NOT wind the line right to the top of the spool in the event that the line goes slack it will slide right off the top of the spool, the result then is a momentary slack, then sudden jerk as the line comes taught to the bail. Not a good thing. Think 90%. The bail should feed the line to within 10% of the top of the spool. You may need to experiment to get this right on. I have done this with drag washers made from different materials and different thicknesses to get it just right.

With Penn reels (probably more than any other) a little experimentation and trial and error is required.

Basically you need to do whatever it takes to have that spool cover the entire bail feeding area during a stroke. This may include something radical like removing a drag washer or ?.

For me personally I have taken spools and re-machined the seating area so that the spool works in the correct relationship to the area where the bail feeds the line onto the spool. Sounds complicated but it really isn't. (Don't mind me, I do technical support and engineering stuff for a living and type like this all day long...)

One more thing...when you have that gear case open look at that large ring gear closely. 95% of the time this thing is made from cheap die cast aluminum. This is where these reels fail, suddenly and almost always unrepairably. You want one that is machined from brass/steel/solid aluminum. TUNA! fishing ain't trout fishin'

Skein...tell me more. I have never handled or used a Fin-Nor reel, but have heard good things about them. Maybe at the next TA meeting you could bring one by? You know..."Research"

id. painter · 11-08-2005, 01:24 PM

Thanks again.
It looks like I colud remove a single washer and it would be just about right.
The reel is the Penn 8500SS .
id. p.

Hammer Down · 11-08-2005, 01:39 PM

Id. P.

The 8500SS is a terrific spinning reel. Nothing fancy, and workhorse tough. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to use that one on a TUNA!

Yes, I would definitely try to remove one of the flat washers in there. That is probably all it needs.

You would think in this day and age that something like that would be taken care of at the factory...but it's just not so. Mechanical stuff is designed to work right out of the box, but sometimes you get a build-up of tolerances and this is where a little 'fine tuning' goes a long way.

In normal use (i.e. Non-TUNA! fishing) the reel was probably just fine. But a 30 MPH TUNA! heading south, flaws become evident very quickly.

greenbuttskunk · 11-08-2005, 02:10 PM

penn 750SS or 850SS gets my vote! I own both. The are so tough and great in the salt.

Seelicious · 11-08-2005, 02:25 PM

What GBS said...I used the 6500 and 7500 this year without issue.

Sling Blade · 11-08-2005, 07:29 PM

ID. P.

I too was raised with spinning reels and I am very comfortable with them. I have never gotten used to level winds or conventional reels. So when I was choosing what combos I would use for tuna and or halibut, I bought 7� MH Tiger rods and Penn 9500SS. I have four identical rods and reels with 600 yards of 65 Lbs Power Pro. I did not get to use them this year due to bad timing, and work. I believe that this will actually be overkill for the tuna and I am looking at Penn 6500 and 7' M rods for that.

Zodiac-Fisherman · 11-08-2005, 10:03 PM

I got a 5500 and a 9500 Penn spinning reels, parents took the 9500 to costa rica and caught sailfish with it.

Great reel,

However i think ill use the baitcasting reel, its more fun. and better for solid hooksets.

Spoonplugger · 11-09-2005, 04:23 AM

My Son, Jared, caught an 8 foot 200 pound plus sturgeon on a spinning outfit we use for tuna the other day. The reel is an Okuma filled with 30# test "Tuff Line". He did have problems with the drag tightening on its own and the handle would fold once in a while. After a 35 minute battle he got it in, with no spun line or irregular wraps. We did decide to get Penn 706Z's after that because of having the drag/handle problem with the Okuma.

bait boy · 11-09-2005, 07:11 AM

Chris, if your having balance problems you might try acid wrapping a few of those new blanks I hear it takes all or most of the "roll" out of a conventional reel. Crabby and BOE could shed some light on this subject as they have built a few of them I think....

id. painter · 11-09-2005, 07:42 AM

So little time and so many goodies to get ...
I did not know that Rick .. Interesting . Thanks .
id. p.