Pintail Ticket at Sauvie Island

[steelhead22]

I just got off the phone with a hunting buddy of mine and he told me this story about someone that he works with.

It's a juvenile hunt day at Sauvie Island today and this guy takes his kid out for a duck hunt. Early in the day the kid accidentally takes a shot at a pintail (out of season), but doesn't kill it. The bird flies a few more blinds down the way where it is shot again by another hunter. The guys in this blind who killed the bird realize it's a pintail and bring it back to the kid who originally shot at it. Sure enough, the game warden comes out later and starts checking everyone. The guys in the blind who killed the bird TELL the game warden that there is a pintail in this guys blind. The gamie gives this guy a ticket for $245!!!

So... who should've gotten the ticket? The guy who originally shot and wounded the bird, or the guy who killed it? If it had been a mallard, do you think the guy who killed it would've ever brought it back to the guy who originally shot and wounded it? Would you ever tell a game warden the a guy in the other blind had a pintail? Would you tell him in this situation? Personally, I think this was a really lame thing to do. How could you finish off a bird, take it back to a guy, then get him in trouble? Let's hear what you guys think.

[Bank Maggot]

thats a crock!

[skein]

This probably isn't going to be very popular, but I think both of them should get a ticket. They both shot - to kill - a protected duck. Truth is, a pin is probably the easist duck of all to identify, so it sounds as if both parties were negligent. I agree however, that it was really chicken of the other guy to do what he did. Really, really chicken!

Skein

[1pump]

If it had been a mallard, do you think the guy who killed it would've ever brought it back to the guy who originally shot and wounded it?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Exactly. But was the bird crippled by the first shooter? You didn't mention it, but it sounds like it was.
It sounds like the second shooter made the same mistake as the first one and shot a bird he didn't ID first. The first shooter covered his butt for him by accepting the bird.

I've had plenty of cripple situations that went both ways. If I wing a bird and it keeps flying and gets popped by the next guy, I'll let it go. But if I knock it down and it's momentum carries it (or it swims) into the next blind, I'll go after it. If another hunter has to kill it then, I'll give him a shell to replace the one he had to use.
A lot of people have different ideas about this, and you never know who's in the next blind.
I wasn't there, so I really don't know the whole story. If I was the second hunter, and I knew that the cripple was a restricted bird, I sure as hell wouldn't shoot it. I hate to waste birds as much as the next guy, but that's taking the law into your own hands. You have to let them go. It may be ethically correct to finish off the cripple, but as far as the law goes you're still shooting at a bird during a closed season.

As far as turning him in, IMHO it would depend on the kid's attitude. If it was an honest mistake and both he and the adult were contrite, I'd probably just give him a stern lecture about ID'ing his birds.
But on the other hand a young hunter has to learn the hard way some times. We don't need any more "ethically challenged" hunters in the field.

This is kind of a tough one.

[1pump]

Truth is, a pin is probably the easist duck of all to identify,

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Yeah, drakes anyway. In crappy weather or low light I could understand somebody taking a shot at a hen, or maybe a juvenile drake.
That's another point- steelhead22 didn't say what sex it was.
Shouldn't matter, though. Too many people are too quick to shoot. Nobody need to be reminded of this when they read about fatalities during deer season.
I've passed on a lot of ducks and geese because I wasn't sure. It's not worth taking a chance.

[Swamp Puppy]

hard to say...something makes me suspicious that by the time the story got to here some points may have been left out.

IMHO:

1) if the bird was crippled by hunter #1 and hunter #2 simply put it down for good so it wouldn't be lost and then returned the bird to the person that actually shot it. then i'd have to say that hunter #1 was at fault and hunter #2 simply did the humane thing to make sure that at least the bad bird wasn't shot AND lost.

2) if hunter #1 shot at and wounded the bird and it kept flying, but was apparently not in any real danger of dying anytime soon and hunter #2 shot it and killed it, then i would ahve to say that hunter #2 is responsible for the kill and it is his bird.

alot of hunters out on the island love to tell the ODFW people about infractions they see or think they see. i guess in a sense "policing your own ranks" can be helpful, but in this case it sounds like a slimy deal. if what happened was like scenario #2 above, then the guy was a jerk twice. once passing off a bird he shouldn't have shot..and again when he turned them in about it.

[BigFish]

I'm with Skein here and ODFW is out $245, no excuses. They both shot the gun at a protected bird and should pay and the slime dogs that killed it should pay double. They got the satisfaction of downing the illegal bird and then giving it to the kid.

[steelhead22]

It sounds like most of us are on the same page, that it was a really low down thing to do turning the kid into the gamie.

I agree also that it depends on the situation as to who's bird it actually was. In this case, the bird was in fact wounded but had glided down the lake two blinds (roughly 400 yards). "When it hit the water it was still very alive and swimming out to the middle", at least that's the story, I don't know how you could see that from 400 yards away so take that for what you will. Had it been me in blind #2 there's no way I would've finished the bird off, even if it was sitting in my dekes. I'm just not taking the risk. Morally I think you should just finish the bird off, but legally you can't. Then I'd have walked over there and found out if they realized they had shot a pintail. If not, point out the ways to ID, then move on. I think the only way I would rat somebody out would be if I was going to take the fall for a mistake someone else had made. I can't afford that kinda ticket and there's no way I'm taking it if it ain't really mine.

"Policing your own ranks" is a topic of discussion on here a lot. Personally, I don't think policing your own ranks entails turning other hunters in to the authorities every time you see someone make a mistake. As for myself, "policing your own ranks" = educating others first, then take other action if they continue breaking the law.

[Swamp Puppy]

Originally posted by steelhead22:

"Policing your own ranks" is a topic of discussion on here a lot. Personally, I don't think policing your own ranks entails turning other hunters in to the authorities every time you see someone make a mistake. As for myself, "policing your own ranks" = educating others first, then take other action if they continue breaking the law.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">i agree with this. it's like when i was a kid. there was a difference between telling on another kid for the right reasons and just being a tattletale.

[Chromaflage]

So, who was issued the citation? The kid or the supervising adult? One thing that comes to mind for me, despite the underhanded finger pointing, is the severity of the infraction relative to the experience and age of the offender. Not to make exceuses, but it takes a fair amount of experience to be able to ID birds in flight. If the adult was not paying attention and the kid saw a bird dumping into his spread, all the kid is likely thinking is "take him." It's a learning experience for sure. I'm not certain that the penalty was proportionate to the infraction.

Again, I'm not making excuses, but young and newer hunters make mistakes. Just a thought.

ORS

[Swamp Puppy]

bah! - what you suggest ORS is that perhaps the gamie should have shown a little understanding in this matter and perhaps spent a little time educating the youth hunter -or- finding out if the adult supervisor was negligent in ID'ing a bird instead of slamming the kid with a heavy fine on what was probably his first bird hunt, thus giving him a bad impression of the whole thing and probably turning him off of it for good?

hogwash!! as my grammy used to say, "spare the rod..spoil the child!"

(note..this was sarcasm for those of you that have trouble distinguishing it from a serious post)

[ 11-09-2003, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Mossberg_3.5 ]

[Chromaflage]

I knew I'd put my foot in it again..

I'm with you though, Moss!

ORS

[Swamp Puppy]

well, on a side note, i can testify first hand that the gamies on SI don't show much consideration for "circumstances" when it comes to issuing tickets. it is purely a "just the facts 'mam" type of scenario.

i got a ticket out there last year for shooting 7 minutes early. i had forgot my watch in the truck, so i just sat tight as it got light waiting for someone else to shoot. when a few rounds went off, i even let the next flight of birds go by...allowing another couple of minutes to pass before i took the next group that came in. the gamie was on me almost before i had the bird out of the water. i explained that i was trying to do the right thing by waiting even after i heard other people firing and i wasn't just a scumbag...but nope. i got a ticket. thank goodness it was only 75 bucks.

[1pump]

i got a ticket out there last year for shooting 7 minutes early.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">That doesn't surprise me. That's one of their all-time pet peeves, and telling them you forgot your watch just irks them even more. The only thing they get more complaints about is skybusting, and they can't write tickets for that.
One time many moons ago on Hunt unit I dropped my shotgun in the mud in the dark before shooting time. It landed barrel-first and plugged the end of the barrel. I had to pull the barrel off and blow it clear, which wasn't a big deal. What I didn't notice in the dark was that the plug fell out when the barrel was off. A few hours later old Harold, the crusty old bird checker, dropped by to chat. He didn't ask for my gun, but I handed it over out of habit while we were shooting the breeze. He started to put the shells in....1...2...then 3!! :shocked: He gave me a look that could have stopped a freight train and said, "Ya got an unplugged gun here!" As soon as he said it I realized what happened and without saying anything I dove into the grass where I had taken the gun apart and started frantically crawling around looking for the plug. I found it in less than 30 seconds, but by then I was sweating bullets. Harold just stood there shaking his head while I told him what happened, then turned and walked off through the corn without saying a word.
The embarrassment of that moment was far worse than any ticket, and he knew it. :blush:
He was one of the old salts out there, and he knew when to write a ticket and when not to. The guys out there now aren't as forgiving, but SI is a lot crazier now than it was then.

[ 11-10-2003, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: 1pump ]

[steelhead22]

How's this for the game warden' at SI.

I was 16 and it was one of my first hunts with my buddies and I alone, without parents. We were out at Racetrack and had shot a few birds and were just having the best time ever. We shot a widgeon the flew down the way and was still very alive. I did not have a dog at this time. So I took the "fetch" command from my buddies and headed down near the other blind. I asked politely if I could finish it off, they agreed. I walked out to the middle of the lake, finished it, and came back. When we went to the check station I was greeted with a gamie, ugly looks from the checkers (i almost considered most of them my friends cause I hunted out there almost every hunt day), and a sweet $75 ticket for HUNTING OUT OF THE DESIGNATED BLIND! So what choose to I have, waste of game or hunting out of the blind?

The very next year I am hunting Mud Lake #12 on the Westside. Shoot a mallard the flies over to the point still very alive once again (needed another round in it to get it) and well away from my designated blind. Later in the day the gamie comes out to tell us that he had a complaint that I didn't retrieve my bird and I would get a ticket if I didn't even try. I told him what happened the year before and he's like, "Well, this guy doesn't care if it's out of your designated area, I want you to get the bird."

Laws need consistency to be able to follow them. They must be written in stone. Unfortunately, with game violations it seems that there's TONS of leeway with some violations contradicting others. Your guess in this situation is as good as mine as to who was right and wrong. I just shrug it off to bad luck, what else are ya gonna do?

As for who got this pintail ticket, I really don't know. I would hope that it would go to the adult.

On a side note, and kind of a funny story, when the regs. changed to 1 pintail per person a day a few years ago my buddies and I saw a very sad sight at the check station. We were hanging out having some lunch after checking are birds out and these two guys come in. They are prancin' around talking about how well they did that day and that they got their limits. They start showing off by lining all there birds up on the tailgate of their truck to be checked and so everyone could see their bag. I start counting, 1 pintail, 2 pintail, 3 pintails....and so on. All in all I think they had 10 or so pins in their bag. The game warden calmly said, "Please come with be in the back." That must've been a serious ticket and an expensive way to learn how to ID birds.

[1pump]

They've always allowed hunters to bend the rules when it comes to retrieving cripples. Writing you a ticket for dispatching a cripple away from your blind is a major cheap shot. I should have about 300 tickets for that by now.
[img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

[steelhead22]

Same here 1pump. I just chalk it up to getting a lame game warden. Maybe he made a mistake or something, but it sure would've been nice if it didn't cost me $75. I haven't seen him out there since that season. I think what bothered me more was how everyone at the "shack" was acting towards us. Like we were criminals or something. Whatever, it was years ago and doesn't really matter now, I just thought it was an interesting situation. Have fun out there, it's been awesome lately. I'll be there Wednesday trying for a good draw to get on Mud or Seal Lake, if that doesn't work it's off to the Eastside. Blue 1990 Jeep with 2 college aged guys and a black lab, come say hi.

[Tilla]

I know a guy that was at the Westside check station who thought he had his one Pintail limit with the rest of his birds. When the birds were laid out on the tailgate lo and behold one of the hen Wigeons had transformed into another Pintail. :shocked: As the bird checkers went down the line the Twilight Zone theme played in the hunters head as he stood there in terror. Sure enough the error was spotted. The bird was taken and his info was recorded. A week later he recieved a phone call and had a pleasant talk with the state police. It had been a mistake.He got just a warning. The embarrassing part was that this hunter admitted that he had worked one season as a bird checker for the state some years back. :shocked:
He now considers that State cop as a friend.

[steelhead22]

Tilla, good story, guy was lucky he got off with just a warning. Hen pintail's getting mixed up with a hen widgeon is the most common ID mistake I've seen. Sometimes it's even hard for me (not like I'm an expert or anything, but I can ID birds in flight) in low light, fast action situations. This time of year, with the pintail closure the "Take 'em" signal is replaced by these two statements. 1)"Orange feet!!!" 2)"WIDGE!!!!"...both statements followed closely by a BANG then a SPLASH.

I was just thinkin', I know the pintail numbers are supposed to be down (i haven't looked at any research, so this is just an uneducated observation), but I've seen more of them than ever before. Tillamook Bay was/is full of them and I could usually take tons of them at Sauvie's if you could shoot them.