Forest Service to Corral OHV's

[Salmo trutta]

Check this out!! Ochoco National Forest in the news!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9899401/

[ehunter]

Good news hope it actually happen.
__________________________________________________ ___________
Eye on enforcement
A spokesman for the Wilderness Society supported the draft plan but said the real test will be in how the final rules are enforced.

“These regulations are not going to be worth the paper they’re printed on if there are not the dollars and the resources to do the planning and enforce the rules,” said Scott Kovarovics, director of the society’s natural trails and waters coalition
__________________________________________________ ___________
I think this was the truest statement, made even the rules inplace now are not enforced.

[TheRogue]

THERE ARE NO $$$$, and there will be less in the coming years.

[bassin]

Well said, We are really feeling the pinch from the war, storms, and lack of cutting timber.

[Hunt'nFish]

Personaly I think there are bigger issues to worry about.
Sure this idiot goofed up a purty meadow but get real, it'll grow back. Besides do you really think whoever did it would've been caught anyway?? Very doubtful.

I see this as another un-enforcable reg that will only further the so called "need" for timber cops. Next they'll be telling me I can't camp anywhere but a designated camp spot. Afterall if I drove off the beaten path to camp I'd be breaking this new reg, right? Personally I don't like camping around other folks and I certainly don't want to camp near a main road. Call me a hillbilly hick, but that's why I go camping... to get AWAY from folks. Not to be herded into a designated camping area.

Nope not gonna get my support.
I think the green dot road system is good enough.
Your not going to stop all the idiots out there, but providing some guidelines like the green dot system help lessen the impact w/o the need for further regs.
I'm not trying to start a fight or flame war, it's just that I'm opposed to MORE regs to solve a non-problem that is un-enforcable and create a "need" for further enforcement officers that we all have to pay for.

Hunt'nFish

[Salmo trutta]

Whatever.....I don't care what you do. I posted the article because in the past on this board folks expressed an extreme displeasure with ORV's. If Chief Bosworth says ORV abuse one of the four top threats to our public lands it will get funding.

[Norm]

"Under the regulation, which Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth announced, all 155 national forests and 20 grasslands would work with the public to identify routes, trails and other areas suitable for off-road vehicles.

“Land managers will use the new rule to continue to work with motorized sports enthusiasts, conservationists, state and local officials and others to provide responsible motorized recreational experiences in national forests and grasslands for the long run,” Bosworth said in a statement."


Good deal, it should make enforcement of the rules easier and more uniform across the N.F.. It will also make the usable trails more obvious.

Sure this idiot goofed up a purty meadow but get real, it'll grow back. Besides do you really think whoever did it would've been caught anyway?? Very doubtful. Hunt'nFish

Exactly the reason they are enacting this law

[Rank Amateur]

I bet my undercover cops would hang some paper with this new rule too!

[Lucky one]

I guess I don't know what this new regulation will do. Is it to designate areas where off road vehicles can go? I thought we already had regulations like this? Why do we need new ones? Lets just enforce the ones we have.
Its not like it would be to hard to do, look for the guy with forty inch tires, and mud covering his truck. No undercover work needed.

[scubaseth]

Thanks Lucky one! You could of made it a little harder for them to find us. :grin:

Scuba

[llama77]

We who obey the law will pay the price. Those that dont will continue to do it. I have over 3,000 miles on my 86 quad. Not one inch of that was ever where I wasnt supposed to be.
Do they have any data that this is really a problem?
So they have a picture, If thats all it takes I can get the horses kicked off the forests too.
Enforce what we have now. Its really a non issue.
Lots more waste of time and money developing these rules, impact studies etc... Time and money going to waste

[garyk]

Looks like the rule is aimed at those who drive off the existing roads and trails.

The people that go cross-country and tear up the landscape are nothing but vandals, nothing less. They ought to stay home and cut doughnuts in their own property, especially their front yards, if they want their motorized freedom.

[Gus Orviston]

Wow, some guy drives his truck out in a field to make drinking ditches for the animals and they turn it into a law not to help the deer and elk.. jeez.

Man,, do you see the terrain damage when the horses go out into these meadows. There ought to be a law.

Just enforce the OHV rules on the books. So thanks for letting me vote NO. :lurk:

gus

[FishTech101]

GOOD I hope they outlaw the use of Quads. Nothing worse than being 4 miles in on a locked gate road with signs all over that say NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES, and some morons come zipping by you, after you have parked right by the gate, they know you are down there, get to your spot and totally spoil your hunt.

[TheRogue]

So, FishTech101.....since they're breaking the law anyway.....what good will even more laws do?

No more rules, there's no money to enforce the ones we have now.

TR

[Rank Amateur]

More paper to hang when we do catch them. "Here sir, these are your tickets, only $30,000 worth of bail", have a good day!

I agree though, new laws without increased (is there any)enforcement is useless. The new rules will make it a lot easier on everybody, only the designated trails will be open, everything else, off limits! No more B.S of "oh mister this area is open to quads" and I have get all the maps to figure out the guy was lying to me, way to go sport! Now I wonder if I will still see a quad in every pickup going to and from Eastern Or.

You guys will cry about it, but there is no dispute that quads have abused there privilege, now comes the . Saw it again this year, two quads where they did not belong, bush whacking through the brush.

[MOLDY]

"But for the first time, heavily traveled “renegade routes” created illegally by off-road drivers could be designated for legal use."

If that were to happen, I would be all for it. But that would put a bunny humpers panties in a wad.

[Rank Amateur]

That's fair enough, we do need to give the OHV some places to use. As long as the trails pass environmental muster, which I think is in the new rules, what the heck. Up where I hunt a few mile away there is an open area for OHV, I stay away from there and we are both happy!

[MOLDY]

I have put in hundreds of hours working on OHV trail improvements, and I know there are alot of people that do the same. I think that trail improvement/enhancement done by volunteer workers would greatly increase if we knew the trail would stay open to the public.

[Gus Orviston]

Hey moldy,, do you work up there outside of jackson..? raced up there several times..awesome down hills..

I just love it.. take pic of damage a truck did, and turn it into blame across the OHV users.. You guys all have trucks most likely have driven to your kill to load it if it looked doable - 2 ruts in a grass field.. come on.

gus

[Twitchs_Tackle]

Funny, that is a cached photo, from a couple srpings ago i think. Our fire crew did re-hab on those ruts for project work last summer! Its off the 4215 rd, near Big Summit Prarie

[TheRogue]

shhhhh......don't let that information out!! Almost like maybe someone was using it for "affect"!!!

Listen to Gus, the man knows what he's talking about, even if he is on the other side of the world......

TR

[BrianMaguire]

THERE ARE NO $$$$, and there will be less in the coming years.

Granted there is no money but enforcement will increase just out of pure chance. When they do encounter a violator today, due to the complexity and the fact that the forest is open unless closed, it is hard to cite people who did violate the law even though they may not be currently doing so. I will give you an example. Where I hunt at the very bottom of the drainage a group of ATVers cut a trail cross country to get around a gate (legal now) to access a closed road 1 mile from the gate (illegal) they drive down to the bottom and setup camp in a field, off of the road (legal) so the only time (I know I was with the district ranger and showed them the camp) that the USFS can act is when they are actually violating the law, when they are driving on the road (which they do at night. Now if the area was closed, which it essentially is because the road is closed, then they could have been cited on the spot, at anytime.

The reason this peaves me is that it is a 3.5 mile hike for those of us who obey the law and when they use the ATVs in the area (illegally) they push the elk faster onto private land.

BTW - those ruts - remember the Oregon trail, it is funny how we can still see those ruts. What was that 150 years ago? If you think that this is all because of one picture you are mistaken.

[Lucky one]

I'm all for cutting illegal travel down on closed roads and cross country, but I don't think you should just outlaw quads because they are capable of doing these things. I hunt in a quad heavy camp. this year during elk season we had around ten. Not one person broke a single law. The area we hunted was rather small, and quads made it easier to get to our jump off points. Some people were ticked just because of the fact we were on a quad. Give me a break its just the same as if I drove a truck down the road to my spot.

[Gus Orviston]

Brian, that is right , they should have closed the Oregon trail down as soon as the first wagon left a mark

I know there is a lot of damage/perceived or real from ATVs. If you want to build an effective story, don't use misleading tricks.

The article as you read it tells you that one of the greatest threats are the illegal trails. COME ON. Illegal trails aren't a threat to the forest (?) when does it lose forest status - when a USFS road is cut through, a horse crosses it, or an ATV ?

Kyle you crack me up
gus

[BrianMaguire]

Brian, that is right , they should have closed the Oregon trail down as soon as the first wagon left a mark

I know there is a lot of damage/perceived or real from ATVs. If you want to build an effective story, don't use misleading tricks.

The article as you read it tells you that one of the greatest threats are the illegal trails. COME ON. Illegal trails aren't a threat to the forest (?) when does it lose forest status - when a USFS road is cut through, a horse crosses it, or an ATV ?

Gus - honestly, no disrespect ,but what planet do you live on? Misleading tricks??? what are you talking about? Anybody that has ever been in the forest knows exactly what I am talking about, and you know as well. Can you honestly say that OHV travel has not, and will not, create damage that will last centuries? Do you really think, with the road densities we have now, that you have to drive that extra 100 yards across a meadow that has never been driven on only to leave marks for 100 years because I/you/anyone are too lazy to drag a deer? Do you really think that because someone wants to drive cross country you can mess up anyone's hunt because they want to drive cross country. This is the epitome of the "ME" generation, I don't give a darn about you it is about what "I" "WANT TO Do" NOW". Well those of us that actually like to hunt and camp in peace and quiet are not going to stand for it any longer. Fight for your access to every square inch and I will fight against you.

Brian

[Salmo trutta]

And Brian.....me and you will start with the Steens Bro!!!!

[Buck50]

Personally I'd rather see them all gone. They're as annoying as PWC's when your out fishing. Mostly I view their operators as just too lazy to put boot leather to the ground.
We just returned from our first season elk hunt. I was shocked how many of these things are around. Glorified road hunters...
OK my flame is done :shocked:

[gottafish]

Personally I'd rather see them all gone. They're as annoying as PWC's when your out fishing. Mostly I view their operators as just too lazy to put boot leather to the ground.
We just returned from our first season elk hunt. I was shocked how many of these things are around. Glorified road hunters...
OK my flame is done :shocked:

To tell you the truth with gas prices so hi I think Id love to get one just for scouting in the preseason. You could cover a lot of ground and you wouldn't be beating you truck all to heck. i HERE they get like 80 mile a gallon. thats a lot better than twelve. I think a lot of people who don't/cat afford them are the one's who cry the most. I don't have one (yet) but wish I did. I'll still walk to hunt but when three guys go hunting and you all are hunting different areas a couple of quads would be great. If your lasy get a horse You can ride right up to the elk on them.

[Lucky one]

Thats exactly what quads are good for, letting people go to different locations, and then (this is key) getting off of the damn thing and walking into a stand or whatever the hell it is you want to do.

[Hunt'nFish]

gottafish wrote: "If your lazy get a horse, you can ride right up to the elk."

Well I'm not sure lazy is the word I would've chose, more like smart, but the part about riding up on the elk is certainly true. That won't happen on an ATV. But just as with shooting off ATV's, it's best to get off the horse 1st! Trust me, that doesn't work out well. Just ask my ol man!
Hunt'nFish

[gottafish]

LOL, I here ya I got launched of one in Co. You know what Quads are just a blast to ride. even on the dirt roads Id much rather ride around on one than beating my truck up

[lor]

With gas at 3.00+ over in Easton Oregon.
We used quads the whole 7 days of archery hunting.
We never even crank up the rigs to hunt.
Used responsiblely, a quad is a nice way to get between camp and a hunting spot.
However, unless you have the right gear, they can be donwright cold to ride on.

If the Forest service is going to make a change.
I hope they allow quads to ride on all legal roads.
Right now, paved and two lane roads are off limits.

[Washington Hunter]

In Washington, all vehicles have to be street legal to be on forest service roads, so therefore all roads are closed to 4 wheelers.

[Lucky one]

Thats ridiculous. That only turns every quad owner into an outlaw.

[Chesapeake]

I dont see the need for the regulation. What took place in that photo was and is illegal. Why they would use a picture of a currently illegal act to advertise a need for new regulations is beyond me.

Personaly I like Washingtons setup. ATV's are only allowed on designated trails or private property. You cant ride on public roads or offroad in the national, state, or any other public forest. The logging companies dont allow them on thier property period. From a legal standpoint they are pretty useless as a hunting tool in Washington unless you have permission to hunt a big private ranch.

Keep in mind the fact that they are illegal does little to stop the rampant use and inevitable abuse of ATV's.

The "Save gas money" argument is a joke, right! They cost $5000 or more. It would take the average person 15 hunting seasons or better to actualy save enough gas money to offset the cost.

For the guys that think there is no problem.

Oh yeah I forgot!

To the boys who say they are good for getting to your hunting place. :whazzup:

Honestly ask yourself; How many times have you seen an ATV parked by a locked gate, trailhead, beginning of a posted road, or other likely hunting area with no one arround?

I have personaly never seen an ATV durring hunting season that was parked other than at a camp or in a truckbed. This obsevation alone leads me to believe they are just a tool for roadhunters.

[Washington Hunter]

There are some legal areas to ride in Washington. State land, either managed by the Dept. of Natural Resources or the Dept. of Fish & Wildlife, is generally open for ATV's, but on roads and trails only. The National Forest does have some designated roads/trails where they can be used, but VERY few. I think the gas savings is a valid argument for using an ATV rather then a full size vehicle. Sure you probably won't offset the cost of the ATV just in gas money, but if you already own an ATV, you may as well use it when possible. I don't think the advantage is so much in using less gas as it is in not having to abuse a $40,000 truck on rough roads.

[Lucky one]

Lets see, well I guess I've seen a quad parked at a trailhead or closed road oh, about everytime I go hunting. In fact during elk season this year I saw one everytime I walked out! And mine wasn't the only one. There were quads parked all over the place. yes there were those that rode them everywhere they could, and just like you I can't stand it, but not everyone on quad is a road hunter. Please remember that before you give dirty looks to the guy passing by you on the road.

[MOLDY]

but not everyone on quad is a road hunter.

Or, even hunting at all. I don't "normally" ride during the majority of hunting seasons, because I am out hunting. But alot of people don't hunt and don't really care if you are trying to. That is life. They have the right to be there just as anyone else. And what about the other 9 months of the year. If I am not hunting or fishing, I am on the quad.

If there were more designated trails and areas to ride, I beleive the number of illegally created ones would decrease. They will never go away, unless someone is constantly watching over your shoulder. We all pay, or are susposed to, for our permits to ride on public land. If that were to be enforced, or a slight raise in fees that would be designated to trail enhancement or new construction, it could be done.

[baltz526]

know there is a lot of damage/perceived or real from ATVs. If you want to build an effective story, don't use misleading tricks

the largest damage the atv hunters are doing, is to the other hunters in the field, causing them to quit hunting, by their use of atv's to access areas that have always been accessed by foot hunters in the past.hunter numbers are dropping and young hunters are not starting to hunt, and atv's are one of the nails in the coffin of our hunting heritage.if atv hunters are ignorant of this fact, they need to understand that we are in this sport together, and everytime they get another area atv friendly for one hunter they push out 2 foot hunters that may never spend another dollar on our sport.this is the major damage the atv is doing to all us hunters.

[tag-a-long]

You guys gripe about ATVs, and the picture shows tracks from a rig... I love the wife's sportsman 700, but we just use it to haul out when we need it. This post could go on forever... Nobody here will ever agree. That is what makes it so cool. The right to have and voice your own opinion...

[dodgeboy252000]

I can say that i use my atv for hunting season and we have five that go in our hunting party. I can tell you that not one of those atv were used on any road other than a green dot posted road. the main use for the atvs at our camp is to get to hunting area and get back. my atv as all of the atvs at our camp sat at the entrance to un posted roads while out hunting in selected areas.I hunted three days before i got my elk i put roughly 110 miles on my atv and most of the time it started 4 times a day twice to get to hunting areas and twice to get back to camp. I used no more than 5 gallons of gas. My truck was used as a camp shuttle most of the time back and forth to retieve the atvs i used 33 gallons of deisel. A flat bfg which were new before trip and needs to have the scratchs buffed out. Atv need to be washed and put away and those our the visable diffrences. the atvs were not used in the extraction of my elk that was down, it did not leave the road and drive down through a unit to get it.I use my atv all summer long to get on posted road to spend time with my loved one with out beating the hell out of my 35000.00 pick up instead i use my 6000.00 atv now cost wise that makes since to me just my MHO. The way I ride my atv is does less damage i would imagine to the roads, 740 pound rig versus 7000 pound rig. I dont have study to back that up but to me that is common since. I dont think that all atv users can be classified in the same catgory.There are always some people that have less repect than others. No rules are going to change that in any area of life. Corral Atvs like said earlier will not stop the people that violate the laws now. It enforces more laws and limits me and others who are law abiding people. As i have followed the posts on atvs on this site it always comes down to the atv would go no where if there isnt a person to start it and a operater when is the last time you saw a unmaned atv running around in the wood on a unposted road. unfortantly for you those roads and hunting areas belong to me 2 and I want to leagly drive my atv to the place I hunt. I am usally one who just reads posts but as a atv owner and a comment about how many atvs do you see siting at a locked, got to me a little. hopefully nothing that i said offends anyone but these are my opinion


oh and by the way i never in 16 days on the east side during season before season or after season did i see a game cop, forest service vehicle, sherriff or OSP officer so you tell me how these new rules or going to stop illeagle atv travel or vehicle travel.

[Lucky one]

In sixteen days you didn't see one cop? God, in seven days I saw a county cop, OSP, ODFW enforcement, and the Forest Service all on patrol. Not only did I see these people, but I also saw them all on multiple days. In fact I got checked by all of them except for the forest service.

[dodgeboy252000]

not one law enforcment person.

[baltz526]

not one law enforcment person.

in the 13 days i was in the steens, i saw zero also. no law enforcment of any kind.