Preditor defence Add in the Oregonian

[gottafish]

Did you all see the add in sundays paper. Quite little couger kittin saying the ODFW is going to kill my mommey and Daddy in a 5 year study. I about pucked.

[FishTech101]

No i didn't. I will have to call my sister and get it. What section. I can use that for my essay.

[Soft Plastic]

If you are talking about the Predator Defense Institute out of Eugene, thats the organization that had coyote hunting banned from the Hart Mt. refuge. They also worked hard to get the use of poison collars on sheep banned. These collars only killed predators if they bit the sheep in the neck, They were deemed cruel . If you are on one of those starvation diets check out their web page, You will lose your lunch.

[oregonoutdoors]

There was an article in the Register Guard about couger hunting. The extereme liberal media we have here in Eugene quoted some guy from the Predator Defence as an expert. You had to flip from the front page to the middle to get the ODFW biologists opinion which completly contradicted the wacko animal rights guy.

Why does the news media even print this stuff? Why do they try to pass their propaganda off as news?

[TheTexan]

Why does the news media even print this stuff? Why do they try to pass their propaganda off as news?

They have the means to distribute this garbage and people continue to buy their product.

[skein]

I should tell 'em that my 22-250 is 'predator-friendly.' After all, I do miss once in a while. :grin:

Skein

[gottafish]

I No longer buy the Oregonian.

[ehunter]

I didn't see that but you have a point have you sent a e-mail to them to tell them that. Maybe we all should send a e-mail complaining about the add I just wish I would have noticed it or I would do it in a heart beat.

[Hunt'nFish]

Good one Skein.
I should put an "Earth First" sticker on mine.
Cuz that's what happens when I pull the trigger!
Hunt'nFish

[ajfishfinder]

It is on page 3 of todays living section. About a 5x5 ad with a pic of a spotted kitten saying that the ODFW is going to kill me and my mom because of a 5 year study.

[duckdog310]

That add is simply another example of the liberal media demonstrating support for the leftist environ-wackos and their agendas. It is not surprising. These are the very same people who scream in defense of the First and Fourth Ammendments whilst crying foul over the evils of the Second (failing to see one is needed to defend the other). Their ultimate tactic is to abandon all reason and logic and tug at the emotional heartstrings of the reader. And, unfortunately, it often works, given the sad state of intelligence in the uneducated general public (present company not included).

As a Eugene/Springfield residence, I refuse to pay for a single issue of the Red Rag (Register Guard). I'm not too familiar with the Oregonian, but I've heard its not any better. The Springfield News is the only newspaper I've ever perused which appears to both accurately and without bias print factual accounts of incidents and issues. And the best part. . .staff from the RG look down upon Springfield News personnel as sub-par reporters. Amazing.

If you REALLY want to hurl, check out an issue of the free (because no one who isn't on government assistance would buy the thing) Eugene Weekly. Its a newpaper-type publication put out directly by the eco-freaks and alternative lifestylists. It puts even the liberally-slanted RG to shame!

[ehunter]

Hey use the add to call OFWD and tell them you support the use of dogs.

[Cosmic Lazy Susan]

I should put an "Earth First" sticker on mine.
Cuz that's what happens when I pull the trigger!

Now that's funny!

Dale

[ORsouthpaw]

I just read the add and can only say one thing. Predator defense is one thing Predator stupidity is another. These people obviously haven't paid attention to the predation issues in California such as the fact that there have been more people attacked in the last 5 years then there was in the previous 100 years.

I think an add should be ran that shows a spotted baby deer and or elk and says something to the effect that the People at Predator Defense want to kill thousands of ungulates by allowing predator's to over populate, or mabey the should show a small child playing in the yard of some out-lying community with a cougar carry off the family pet and a title that says "Predator Defense! Is is really a good thing?"

I don't think the needless killing of any game animal is a good thing for anyone but we have worked too hard since the early 1900's to rebuild our game heards to allow the predator population to get out of hand. Just my .02 cents

[ehunter]

I love to know if any one from this organization goes over to kitty watch in Joesph . I would love one of them to tell me they go out just to look for cats and take pictures. They don't have a clue only emotion. It is hard to discuss with them becasue they don't really understand the issues.

[Hunt'nFish]

ehunter wrote: "I'd love to know if any one from this organization goes over to kitty watch in Joesph" .

I DO!! I'm still looking but I won't be snapping pics....
well at least not a first!

Was sharing a cold one in Wallowa w/ one of my dads friends and he was tell'n us how his son's elk hunt went. (shot a nice 6x6) but what was even more interesting was a couple days prior he had that funny feeling and looked up to see a cat rise from the grass <10yds in front. He shot from the hip and took it in the front shoulder and had to finish it off after a short distance.
Didn't catch how big or old.
Hunt'nFish

[Mad Mikey]

FWIW, here's their website. Know your enemy.

save a cougar etc.

I putzed around on the site for awhile if only to confirm these folk are of the ilk I suspected. Yup.

I really liked the part where they title the article "Save Oregons cougars!!!"

[gottafish]

What is wrong with these people????? I just want to scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gottafish]

Why doesn't the OHA run a counter add??? I'll put up some money$$$$

[sliverpicker]

Just more propaganda from the "ill-informed"!

[FishTech101]

It will not change till a child is attacked on his way to school, or one of these "kalificornicated" peoples little hairless dogs( the ones with the puffy hair on its head) gets eaten then they might see that these animals are PREDATORS, we dont let the 2 legged ones walk the streets why are we letting a 4 legged one run free.

[Ezrider]

The media and the courts have raised my blood pressure 20 points. I'd like to see the people who have suffered loss from cougars file a lawsuit against the Predator Defense Institute and their ilk.

[sunshinefisherman]

My 13 year-old daughter had a close encounter with a cougar while on stand this weekend, scared the daylights out of her!

Emotional response is the tool that these people are using to push their anti agenda. What's it going to take? A father laying the half-eaten remains of his child on the doorstep of these people?

[ehunter]

That won't work either they will claim we shouldn't have been there in the cougars way. It will be the same with the wolf they will say since they are feeding on cattle we need to switch to vegeratain (can't even spell it) life style and leave the wolf alone. They are just doing what they do natually and we should stay out the way. Don't ask how I can think like they do I am not a member honest. I guess if you think like a 2 year old you can understand them.

[fishboys]

I would like to see a ad with a picture of a couger or a coyote helping take a unborn deer or elk out of its mother.We need to show it like it is. They just like to sugar coat it.Makes me sick how the valley can control the vote in the whole state.

[ehunter]

your not alone

[Erich_870]

"Even Bill Monroe, outdoor writer for The Oregonian agrees that the cougar, like every other
animal is funded by hunting license and tag fees and federal excise taxes on equipment
hunters buy. He spells out the simple truth, that because the ODFW gets virtually no money
from them, “animal-rights activists, fair or unfair and by virtue of our democracy, have a
voice but are not players in the game.”[9] And yet the department is charged with managing
the state’s wildlife for all of its citizens."

Is it just me or is all the crazy talk starting to mess with proper sentence structure? Funny how that is.

Erich

[ehunter]

Erich your absolutly right and it drives me nuts. They have latched onto this whole thing out of emotion and If they wanted to go back to the early 1800's and live maybe we should build a fence give them 1000 acers and fill the enclosure in with their livestock add a few cats and wolfs and some bears and we can go check on them on in say a year. We will have to see just how hungry they are and how many are left.

Hunters are after a substantial (sp) deer and elk population. I don't think they really care aobut the animals it is their vision that they want us all to adapt. Hunters have been here since the begining of time I hope that we here in the next 20 years.

[BIGALSURF]

If only we could teach Cougars to kill Sea Lions, it would be a perfect world! Hey, maybe the volunteers at Predator Defense would like to drive one of those nice kitties down to Astoria East Basin on Saturdays! I'm sure they wouldn't tear up the upholstery in the back seat. Cougars are just cuddly house cats only bigger. Right?

[jlsexton]

I have a counter add it'll be a precious little child in the mouth of a cougar posted right next to the add saying "better it's mom than your baby"....

[BrianMaguire]

One thing everyone needs to remember about the animal rights groups, is that they do not argue in or with logic. They most certainly will try to make it look like they are dealing with logic, or science but it is only skin deep. They are incredibly dedicated, much more so than any of us are towards protecting hunting. They are very cunning, and although they would love to outlaw all hunting right now, are smart enough to know that it has to be done in pieces, first trapping, bow hunting, doe hunting, etc... The best thing we can do is to hold our heads up high, do the right thing, fight hard against legislation, and let those that do not hunt know that it is a respectable activity. We need to be the leaders in conservation not the beneficiaries, we need to lead not follow.

[Lucky one]

We need to be the leaders in conservation not the beneficiaries

From what I understand we are the leaders in conservation. Our money goes to research, management, and habitat protection and rehabilitation. We join clubs like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Ducks Unlimited, and Oregon Hunters Association which do even more for habitat.

What do the anti hunting groups do, besides trying to pass ridiculous laws and run heart string commercials to influence uninformed voters.

[Salmo trutta]

From what I understand we are the leaders in conservation. Our money goes to research, management, and habitat protection and rehabilitation. We join clubs like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Ducks Unlimited, and Oregon Hunters Association which do even more for habitat.

What do the anti hunting groups do, besides trying to pass ridiculous laws and run heart string commercials to influence uninformed voters.

The problem is that hunters or even better yet hunting orgs. do not have an advertising or PR campaign. Sure we/they thump our own chests in all the hook and bullet rags. But we/they need to pay for the ads in other media outlets to let the world know what we are doing.

[gottafish]

You couldn't be more right, I think the OHA would be a great place to start something like that . Maybe ask members for controbutions, Heck I'll put up 50 bucks to run a add

[STGRule]

Some of you guys are too much. You sound just as crazy as they do. And before you go off please listen to my opinion (and it really is JUST my opinion). Laying a mangled child on a doorstep sounds just as loony as they are going to kill my Mom and me. Both of those statements are meant to invoke an emotional reaction to sustain your/their opinion. And both of them are extreme to me.

Hunters with tags AND dogs should be able to legally hunt and kill cats. And since the child is infinitely more likely to be mangled in a car wreck, whose doorstep will you be laying the body on?

An extreme in any opinion makes people shake their collective heads and tune out. If it really is important to you, make education your priority. And you will never educate with rhetoric or sensationalism. State your FACTS and be reasonable. Then you won't turn off the reader.

[gottafish]

I couldn't agree more but we should get a couple of positive Management type adds out there to inform the public. in say the Oregonian. We can talk about it all we want in hunting mags and forums but the truth is we need to reach Joe blow sittin at Starbucks. with sound managment objectives. Not pull his /her heart strings. Lets do this Now!!

[Rank Amateur]

I think you have to meet in the middle in this argument. We had an ad during the cougar/bear ban measures of past and we got our butt handed to us. You can't win this fight with "just" facts. You have to put an image in the publics mind. If the public has the image of cougars killing fawns and calves in their minds, then they too will be offended just like the rest of us. If the only image the public gets is a cougar mom and kitten and probably soon a dead cougar mom and kitten, that is the image they will vote with. You can not win by having some old professor spewing a few facts, it just does not stick. Present the facts, but also present "the" image. Let the fawn scream as the cougar takes it down, then scroll across the screen, this happens 250,000 times a year (scream)-(scream)-(scream).

[fishboys]

Yep, fight fire with fire.

[STGRule]

Except, that is exactly what cats do and should do. And if it makes you shudder to listen to screaming fawns, don't be there to listen. Things eat things. A human should know that better than anything else. We just have to understand that we also have to share. Very few of us hunt purely to put meat on the table because we can't afford to buy it. The only people that argument works for is poachers who don't buy all the hunting toys and tags. We hunt for pleasure, not necessity. And if we do it we better not decry another creature's habit of doing it.

[gottafish]

I agree to a point but on the managment end of things its out of balance, to many preditors (hunters inc.) is a problem. and Odfw hands are tied is the Biggest problem. $$$$ keeps hunters in the woods but with nothing to harvest the $$$ will go away then all you will have is poachers and no moneys to pay for enforcement officers. In a way this is the exact plane that these groups want. end result no hunting. natural game management by preditors IE couger ,Bear, and wolfes, Scarey thought but so true.

[STGRule]

Just don't get stuck in the "we have to be as idiotic as them" rut. There are a few hunters. There are a few anti-hunters. Then there is the vast majority that out numbers both groups many fold. That would be the group I belong to. Non-hunters. Don't make non-hunters into anti-hunters. You have as much chance of changing an anti-hunter's mind as they have of changing yours. It ain't gonna happen.

However, with the non-hunter group you actually have a chance. Just don't treat us as idiots because we are not that. Education starts with an understanding about how nature works. Predators, prey, habitats, carrying capacities, pollution, harvest and a myriad of other aspects. The best place to start that is with children. You can't fight big business, but you can make a difference at a local level.

And before somebody dismisses this as a "hippie" rant, let me first assure you that I am indeed of that mindset. I got this way because I really do understand all those things and I don't think some others do. Mostly people at BOTH ends of this debate. Don't underestimate your ability to fight the loonies. Just don't insult me/non-hunters while you try. We are not your enemy until the antis convince us. Don't let that happen.

[rimrock]

Thanks for your posts STGRule. I read too many other "insane" posts ranting against the "insane wackos" to give any merit to this discussion. I found you to be refreshing. I would welcome any interchange with you. Thanks again

[gottafish]

WOW, where you directing that rant at me?? Where do you get all that hostilite. I said I agree with you to a point. But I believe Neither hunters or anti's should control managment objectivs. State Bio's have that job. and should be allowed to do it. thats what they are paid to do. these groups play on heart strings and its not right. the General public gets the wrong idea from these types of adds. My point is Groups like the OHA and others should put up honest reaserch adds to inform the pubic how it really is. No disrespect to you.

[STGRule]

It was absolutely not directed at you. I agree with you on most points. Honest education (ads) is the way to go. And to a very broad audience.

[Rank Amateur]

So you are at a party and the discussion goes to the "new balllot measure", what do you think is the most common picture that the non-hunters have pop into their minds? Yes, the cougar being shot out of the tree and falling wounded into the creek. Even I didn't like to see that picture.

Yes cougars kill calves and fawns, but ask a person what is the first picture that comes to their mind when you say the word cougar to them, it will be some fluffy wilderness picture or the above picture. But lets educate the people, let them see cougars for what they really are, lets put the picture in their heads of what reality really is! Then point out that there are 5,000 of them in our state. Point out that 2,000 would be fine. Show the picture of the bussiness that went out of bussiness because there is very little hunting now, because of the cougars.

Good argument, cougars or humans harvesting game, heck why should I worry about the hunters, well point out who funds ODF&W and other game management agencies. So if you like seeing wildlife, maybe the hunters are the lesser of two evils?

Bottom line, if you don't put the image in their heads, you will get your butt handed to you, again. If this offends you, then you are too informed, but frankly most of the public is not, the image will work on them.

[ehunter]

Rank they need to be told about the people in some area's that can't leave their animals out at night due to cougars needing to eat and talk simply about the science and nature of cats needing large area's to roam. The more cats we have the more area they need to survive and less wild food the more they have to eat domistic animals and pets. It is their nature. I have talked to several non hunters and this is a different picture than they saw before. I really think this ballot could be changed if people really understood the whole picture. Be honest and straight forward it isn't about hunting it is about science and nature.

[gottafish]

Interesting developmet.I talked with a hound hunter today and He doesn't want the law changed back ??????? WHy You ASK. He is makeing a butt load of money doing it for the ODFW now. This Is true I talked with him today in hood river. No kidding I walked away a little dumbfounded

[Rank Amateur]

Guess who is paying that tab?

Of coarse he doesn't want it changed, but he is in the minority and he has a conflict of interest, pretty lame excuse!

[baltz526]

You couldn't be more right, I think the OHA would be a great place to start something like that . Maybe ask members for controbutions, Heck I'll put up 50 bucks to run a add

you know, i have brought up a yearly special project fund, collected by a yearly mailing every spring. to fund special projects. but it always dies, the old gaurd in the top of the oha, can not seem to see the need for this type of fund.if other members would put the same bug in their ear maybe it could happen. go to the website and click on contacts and suggest some sort of non gorrila marketing collection letter.