Cormorants

[skein]

Somebody help me here. I musta slept through Bird Ecology 101, and I can't remember why we don't manage cormorants.

I watched probably 80 of them work a small lake (maybe 10 acres) and man, they are machines.

I've seen them lined up by the hundreds along the Umpqua down by Reedsport, and well, they're everywhere.

Why was it (again) that we don't do anything about them?

Skein - who is confused again.

[1pump]

Probably for the same reason we don't manage sea lions.

I've seen more than one person take a shot at one while duck hunting, but that's more a case of mistaken identity than malice.
Sure seems to be a lot more of 'em now than there was 20 years ago.

[willametteriveroutlaw]

There really cool you can shoot them and they just fly away :grin: :grin: :grin: . + they taste pretty bad. i have a who buddy shot one on accident and decided he just had to eat it. His kitchen smelled days later.

[Mello-Yello]

As kids we called them B-52s...I guess cuz it took anti-aircraft artillery to bring em down.

Ahhh, the innocence of adolescence.....

[Mr. Carp]

Ahhh, the old "double-enders". :grin: You can always tell them when they are coming because their neck is as long as their tail and it always looks like they are having a tough time staying in the air. Man they are good eating. MMmmmmmmm, I love mud flavored cormorant.

[TonTo]

I recall reading about a year ago that they were removed from federal protection,yet the same artical stated it was still ileagle to shoot them, but one step closer to being able to control their numbers.

[BIG4_score]

I can vouche for the smell and as far as the taste my lab wouldnt eat it [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] She wont even retrieve them, so whats the use in shooting them???? Unfortunately they are fish vacuums. We gunned one a couple of years ago on Fern Ridge that had 19 minnows in its stomach. :shocked:

[wade]

Some folks will give all hunters a bad name. Shooting something on accident, mistaken identity? Some of you others taking shots at something because you can't find something else to shoot at or what? This thread started out with what seemed to be a valid question but some of you are showing your true colors.

Kevin

YEA! Don't shoot coromorants!

Put tovex in the trees where they roost at night and set it off when they come to roost. Way too many of them. They're killing the trees where they roost, west of the 101 bridge on the north side of the Umpqua in Reedsport, with theit excreetment.

[Old Coot]

Years ago a bio told me that cormorants are protected because they are a migratory bird that tends to spend our winters off the coast of South America. He then went into an arcane explanation of the Peruvian guano industry, the gross product of the bird's gross product, and a treaty between Peru and the US. I have no idea whether it was true, but it sure sounded good to an ignoramus like me.

[skein]

Holy cow, Old Coot, you're right! We need to follow these things around with pooper-scoopers and sell the guano to organic farmers. There's gold in them thar hills .... er ... river banks and tree limbs.

Check out this link to some history .

Hmmmm. As I read further, it seems it's the white-breasted cormorant that migrates there, not the black beasts we see around here. I wonder where they go? More study is in the offing.

Skein

[ 10-29-2003, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: skein ]

[Straydog]

They are pretty smart, I have to admit.

Somehow they know when the outmigration of smolts takes place on the Rogue and show up at Savage Rapids Dam to take advantage of the "smolt buffet" that the dam and poorly designed fish ladders provide.


You don't see them in any numbers, if at all any other time but they and the seagulls know when to show up in big numbers.

[King Fisher]

I like Keta's idea!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] These birds are eating smolts in huge #'s.

[WildHawg]

Tovex is a beautiful tool. I love the Christmas tree potential it contains!
Keta--near as I can tell, you and I should hang around together more often than the halibut cleaning station at Newport affords us.
We seem to think alike. You weren't in the military...were you ?

Wouldn't have me, 4F.
I had scarlet feaver when I was a baby and my lungs are messed up.

[ 10-29-2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[skein]

I'm such a plain-jane kind of guy. I was thinking my 17HMR would be just the ticket to scatter their feathers. Of course I couldn't get a whole string of them at one flick of the handle.

Okay, you guys are right. Go for it. :grin:

Oh, and just in case anyone is aghast at my ideology here, I'm deadly serious. These things rate right up there with cockroaches.

Skein

[1pump]

Some folks will give all hunters a bad name. Shooting something on accident, mistaken identity? Some of you others taking shots at something because you can't find something else to shoot at or what? This thread started out with what seemed to be a valid question but some of you are showing your true colors.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Hope you're not talking about me, cowboy. [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img] If you actually read my post I said I've seen people shoot at them, including some guys across Mudhen Lake from me once. The funny thing about that was that I was talking to an ODFW bird checker when they started shooting at it. The ODFW guy practically sprinted toward his pickup and tore out of there. Never did hear how it turned out.
I've personally never shot at one. Pretty easy to identify, being "double ended" and all.

[nerta]

We call them shitaquarts because they always leave such a mess on every thing when they take off. Maybe we can use them like the chinese do put a ring around their neck so they can't swallow and use them for fishing lures. When we're done fishing them just SLAM their heads in the tackle box and get another lure after each fish.

[wade]

When I got home from work and saw how this has escalated my first instinct was to press the icon that says "check out this thread" or something like that, but I'm not one to go and tattle to daddy. I'm fairly new to ifish so for all I know somebody is going to edit this post or we'll have a flame-frest, who knows, I don't really give a rip either way. What bugs me most is when I see somebody start a run of posts that glorifies disrespect for our resources and nobody steps up to stop it. Skein, I really misjudged you, I have a dumb tendency to give folks the benefit of a doubt, more than most do. My bad.

Keta, you seem to have a strong opinion on just about everything and the truth is, once I find out where you're coming from I agree with you mostly. But sometimes you seem to be just spewing out verbal diaahrea. There are some people that will read your drivel and take the next step to act radically. Spouting off like that is just irresponsible.

The cormorant that is likely at issue here is the double crested cormorant. That's the only one you'll probably see inland, the pelagic cormorant is common on the coast but probably isn't in mass like some of you are complaining about. The fact is there are potentially 4 different species of cormorant that one might see near the coast, and the only one that is really common is the double-crested. Have an open season on those and you put the others at risk as well. I don't know whether or not this is a consideration with the ODFW but if not it should be, this thread makes it obvious that many that would shoot them don't give a rip. And finally, the mindset here seems to be, if it eats fish or smolts its bad. Kill 'em. If you see them everyday by golly there's too many of 'em, kill 'em! Its like unless its not an endangered species, it should be put there. Unless somebody else chimes in here for the resource this is what it comes down to when you give a dumb fisherman a gun. Or turn a fisherman into a dumb hunter. Or give a dumb fisherman some pyrotechnics.

Just my $.02

Kevin

[ 10-30-2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

Wade,

"Keta, you seem to have a strong opinion on just about everything and the truth is, once I find out where you're coming from I agree with you mostly. But sometimes you seem to be just spewing out verbal diaahrea. There are some people that will read your drivel and take the next step to act radically. Spouting off like that is just *******' irresponsible"

Something needs to be done OK. The cormorant rookery on Winchester Bay is bad, drive down and look for yourself. It's on the north shore just east of the Hwy 101 bridge south of Gardner. The cormorant population is out of control. I don't think we should kill them all just a reduction in their numbers. Shooting then doesn’t work. Blasting them in large numbers is the most efficient way. I have a USDA Wildlife Hazing Certificate, from my oil spill response days, and can usually identify what kind of bird I am dealing with.
If I thought that someone could come up with Tovex or any other blasting powder I probably wouldn't have posted this. Any way, I feel that these cormorant (you are right they are the auritus species) need to have their numbers reduced. Preferably by the USFWS.

[ 10-29-2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[skein]

Wade,

Don't take me too seriously. When I actually start shooting them, turn me in. I will deserve it.

As for my dislike for them? Herman Melville called them "The Devil's Bird." I tend to agree with him.

It was not so long ago that the Washington Fish and Game slaughtered hundreds of geese on Green Lake in Seattle. Why? Because they were a health menace and had completely taken over a lake and park used by the citizens of the city. I suspect the same thing will eventually happen with the cormorant.

Sorry if I offended you - but I still feel the same.

Skein

[TonTo]

When the ODFW or the WDFW finally step up to adress the comorant problem sign me up.I have a tack driving .22 and am looking for an excuse.But seriously there are one h3ll of a lot of them fish eating bastbirds out there and they do need to be thind.

[Mello-Yello]

Spouting off like that is just *******' irresponsible"

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Cmon Kevin, there are kids reading these posts too.

Wade did have a valid point. We don't want uncontrolled killing of cormorants, seals, sea lions or any other predator. We don’t need the protected status on them either.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Skein, I really misjudged you, I have a dumb tendency to give folks the benefit of a doubt, more than most do. My bad.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Ya Skein, you big meanie Nothing to do with your time now that you are retired but stirring the pot causing all kinds of trouble How dare you :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

[skein]

Well, BOE, I've got all this .17 ammo and the sage rats aren't up yet, and ....

Geez, I try to be good, but it just doesn't work. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Maybe I'll just take out my frustrations on the credit card.

Skein

[Miss B Haven]

Subsonic 22 shorts! Ppppphhhhttttt...splat!

[ 10-30-2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

Miss B,
I prefer a satisfying BOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!

[id. painter]

Living in Idaho as a kid we saw none of those birds. I distinctly remember when they started to show up. It took a couple of years
( maybe 5 ) and you would see hundreds .
I remember talking with my best friends father about the increase. We were wondering if the migration route had changed or what.We suddenly started tp see lots of em. They havent left either. I see hundreds of them at every lake and res. in the lower country. The valley along the Snake river. I have never killed one , and now that I know what they taste like I never will. id. p.

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Poor cormorants, I have never shot one, or told a lie . Truth being, they are an animal that has had a populatiuon increase from human development, (resivors, dams, fish hatcheries). As far as a legal season on them, sign me up. Somthing eleso to shoot when the mergansers aren't flying :grin: .

[gottafish]

They dont tast as good as eagle or blue harons So i let the be :grin: :grin:

[wade]

mello-yello, the bleeps aren't what you think, I have no idea why that word was deleted.

Keta I agree some predators need to be controlled, likely all of the ones you listed. Regarding the double-crested cormorant. Because of the complications of ID which requires a sharp educated eye with good binos and a conscientious effort, the state control you suggested would be way better than having an open season, especially if the problem can be pinpointed to a specific location. I'm still perplexed by the hate generated by this bird though. One might eat a pound of whatever they can catch each day but I can guarantee you not one scrap will ever go bad in the freezer.

Kevin

I don't like them mostly because of their numbers.

A trained person can tell a double crested cormorant from the pelagic cormorant by the way they hold their neck when they fly. The pelagic holds its head level with its neck, the double crested holds its head higher than its neck when they are in flight. Brandt’s cormorants have a pale breast. All three species are common.

There are only double crested cormorants on Klamath Lake and the upper Klamath River. They feed on millions of fish, including both of the endangered sucker species.

[First Light Bite]

Just seen this post and had to chime in. I am not sure when the NF Nehalem hatchery releases their smolt but in May or June this year I witnessed a huge raft of cormorants floating down river maybe 400-500 strong. Wierd they seemed to be pack hunting as most of them would dive at the same time and they were very successful with what ever they were feeding on. I could not tell with the binoculars if they were smolt or not but what ever it was they harvested them by the thousands. I would assume they would be smolts as I don't know what else would be in the river in those kinds of numbers at that time of year. Only time I have witnessed this behavior but if it is common they are doing some serious damage to our Salmon or Steelhead runs.
:depressed:

[ 11-03-2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: First Light Bite ]

[skein]

I agree.

Think of them as feathered pike minnows.

Skein

[Crashin' Bait]

Well, the USFWS has been thinking about the cormorant problem for a while. If and when they formulate a management plan, I'm fairly certain that the State DNR's will probably follow suit. Are there any good uses for the carcasses? Anyways, here's the scoop:

Service Will Prepare Nationwide Cormorant Management Plan

OOPS! Shoulda dug a little deeper, Ha, Ha!
:grin:

Service Releases Final Rule On Double-Crested Cormorant Management

[ 11-03-2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Crashin' Bait ]

[skein]

Crashin Bait,

Thanks for the info. That is exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread - information on management (or lack). Sounds like we need to get Oregon added to that list of states.

I guess the next step will be to start bringing it up in letters and public commentary at some meetings. It sure seems there are precedents for us to follow.

Good link!

Skein

[Fishfaced]

Turkey Loads and leed'em just a little bit. That should be the managment plan. About 50 cents a bird and its over with.