Gun-shy Pooch

straightweave · 10-18-2003, 02:45 PM

Ifishers- I have a three year old female lab that the Mrs. and I rescued. Very passive, but a real go getter in the woods. She hunts close, great nose, got her trained on pheasant and quail feathers and scent, but she no-be-diggin the "bang". Doesn't run back to camp, but hangs on the heels once the birds flush and that first shot is fired.

HELP!!!

skein · 10-18-2003, 02:54 PM

Make it fun for her. After she retrieves that first bird, throw it for her a few times and let her bring it back. Great fun. Yeah, it's a little tough on the bird, but I sacrificed my pup's first duck for the "sake of the game," and now she LOVES to hear that gun go off.

Of course, she wasn't gun-shy to begin with, but I tried to make every facet of our training FUN, and it's paid off.

I'm interested to hear what the real trainers suggest. I'm sure they face - and overcome - this problem fairly often.

Skein

straightweave · 10-18-2003, 03:12 PM

Thanks Skein. Is there some way to incorporate the bang w/ the dead bird?

Chromaflage · 10-18-2003, 04:06 PM

You might try banging on something while she's eating - maybe graduate to a 22 blank gun from there. You might have to back way up with her and use the cap gun for every retrieve she does for awhile. Making it fun is very important, so she has to associate the "bang" with something fun.

ORS

Flatfish · 10-18-2003, 09:01 PM

Skein is right.
I played with the first duck Jake ever fetched. he loved it.

Now when a gun goes off, he goes into mach III.

Nothing is better than gunfire. Nothing.

Make your pup associate "Bang" with "birds", and your troubles are over.

Mark and the dog.

Capin' Dan · 10-18-2003, 09:34 PM

strait you are getting some very good advice. Make it a positive game for her. lots of praise and petting and have someone move off 20 or 30 yds and pull the trigger a few times while this is going on. maybe around feeding time especially if she is a food motived type of dog as most labs are. retrieving, sitting in the house geting attention have the wife pull off a couple of the blanks. A .22 blank pistol is great for getting them over this. She doesn't sound like she is really bad like leave the country jsut a little concerned about the sound. Who knows in the past loud noise could have been a very negitive thing for her.

Dan!

Mello-Yello · 10-18-2003, 11:22 PM

Positive reinforcement. If you're not concerned over the gunfire, she won't be.

Dog's with a 'shaky' past can be a challenge. In most cases, they have very little self-confidence, i.e.everything they do is bad. With a balance of affection, recognition and consistent reinforcement, she should do just fine.

Another consideration would be to hook up with someone w/a well disciplined dog. Put her on leash, and let her watch the other dog work. There's a good chance that in short order, she'll be frothing at the bit for her chance.

It's a noble thing to take in the troubled and turn them around. Pat yourself on the back. I wish you and your pooch nothing but the best.

straightweave · 10-19-2003, 08:40 AM

Ifishers- thanks one and all.

Now what to tell the neighbors.....

Chromaflage · 10-19-2003, 10:27 AM

Ear plugs are pretty cheap.

ORS

deschutes2 · 10-20-2003, 08:43 AM

Here's another idea that really worked for my wife and I and our two labs. It plays on their separation anxiety a bit but all it requires is two people and a .22 cal blank pistol (you can gradually increase it to a 20 gauge, etc.)

First, have one person stay with the dog (on a lead) while the other walks away in plain sight. When the walker gets about 50 yards from the dog, have them turn, kneel, and call the dog to them. Reward her with lots of praise each time she comes.

After a few rounds of this, (hopefully, your pup is getting into the game) have the walker walk away about 50 yards again, kneel, fire a single round and excitedly call the dog to them. The gun shot becomes almost like a "come" command or whistle. Praise her each time she comes and if she really hates being away from you she will come like a bullet.

Another nice thing about doing it this way is when hunting upland and the dog is hunting heavy cover, when the dog hears a shot, she will naturally want to come to you where you can send her for a retrieve. Eventually, you can work in marks, etc.

This really worked for us because our dogs hated not being with us. Just remember to act very excited and praise her. Eventually, you can decrease the distance and eliminate the verbal "come" command, just fire the shot and watch her tear towards you. Maybe throw a fun bumper as a reward. Good Luck, sounds like you have a dog with all the fixins!

-Deschutes2

Lured In · 10-20-2003, 08:59 AM

Here is yet another opinion.

Focus on the problem. The problem is not the gunfire, the problem is the dog doesn't understand what it means. Banging pots and shooting caps over the dog while eating can help to relax to the dog to loud noises, but it doesn't help the dog to understand guns.

The best advice I have heard on this is as follows. You will need a friend to help you and assumes the dog is willing to retrieve.

Take your dog to a safe area where you can shoot the gun. Have your friend walk off about 100 yards behind you and heel your dog(on leash if necessary). Tell the dog "mark", throw the dummy and have your friend fire (in a safe direction). Send the dog for the dummy. If the dog shows no sign of gunshyness. Have your friend move 25 yards closer and repeat until he is standing next to you and the dog. If at any point the dog gets 'spooky' have your friend move back to his previous position. This may take several lessons like this, but your dog will quickly learn what the gun shot means and be expecting good things to come from it. If done right, your dog will start to get pumped just seeing you take your gun out to go hunting. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

The dogs want the birds, use their own desire to help break them of the gun shyness.

Good luck and it sounds like she has a great nose!

:grin:

[ 10-20-2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Lured In ]

Lured In · 10-20-2003, 12:55 PM

Labs...

:tongue:

Brown dogs rule...black dogs drool!

:grin:

Labsforme · 10-20-2003, 11:37 PM

LI got it right.I use a 22 blank gun to initially expose pups to gunfire.The noise is always associated with the reward/pleasure of retrieving and birds(or bumpers).Once they are used to the blank gun then move up to a 12 gauge and do the same procedure.Make it the best experience you can.If you need help pm or e-mail me and I'd be glad to give assistance.
PS Brown dogs usually start at 50 yards so they remember the mark :grin: (just kidding?)

James in Idaho · 10-21-2003, 07:08 AM

Gun shy can be tough to fix. Sometimes it won't be cured, and you need to know that up front. Two methods that I have seen that actually worked are LOTS of birds (pigeons) shot for the dog, starting far out and moving closer, in several training sessions, with lots of praise on each one. The other is the "chain gang", where you short tie several dogs on a ground chain, and then start training with flyers in plain sight. The other dogs on the chain will get pretty worked up, and the gun shy one will feed off of this. This is one of the best methods. Hook up with Tilla, he may be able to arrange a chain gang for you. Ya like that Tilla? Always happy to fill up your free time.

If the dog does not quickly get over the shyness, it most likely won't. You will need to decide if you want to wash it out and start with a new pup. Tough call, came close with my current dog many years ago, but a crate full of pigeons and great training partners solved it.

id. painter · 10-21-2003, 08:59 AM

Gun shy,, I hate those words.
I have had to break 4 pointers of it . they were all friends dogs and one for my father.
It sounds like you have a good chance at fixing this dog ,but ,dont let it get any worse.
I have had to out smart these dogs and one was very tough to cure. I ended up taking the pup into my home for 4 months and had to walk and work with the dog day after day after day. If I were to charge a fee for that it would be about 5000 $. The absolute toughest thing to fix.
But, several were just a matter of getting the pup to understand that guns go off when we walk , sometimes , and it is no big deal. I had to break a Golden Retriever this fall .
Each time someone shot the dog would go hide in the brush. We would all walk around till she would finally sneak out . I had the boys leash her and continue on. I told the boys to not let her choose ,, they made her go and kept her on leash ,,, after several days of walking and shooting the dog finally decided there wasnt anything to worry about when the gun goes off.Problem solved. Each situation is different and why the dog is shy is different (what happened to make them worry about loud noises).
The most common mistake Ive seen is the master who shouts , stomps,or claps,to get the dog to behave . This sets the dog up for it every time. When pup hears a loud noise it thinks it had better be good, or else. Be patient and work with your dog every chance you get . This will be the turning point in this dogs life.It is very important to fix it or you will have just a pet for ever. Good luck. The advice above is all good ... Make it fun for the pup if it will still walk with you. No pressure and no pusishment at all. id. painter

straightweave · 10-21-2003, 10:47 PM

Skein, Cap'n Dan, and especially Labs, thanks is not enuff. Sera the pooch begins her new training program this wkend. I'll keep ya posted as to hers, and mine, progress.

cheers...