Cougar encounter

[Wishin' I wuz Fishin']

I had an interesting little episode with an adult tom (I think) cougar this year bowhunting elk in the Ochocos. I was still-hunting along, slowly, cow calling occasionally. I heard twigs snap, froze, and scanned in the direction I heard the sound. Saw nothing, scanned left until I saw the kitty staring at me at about 35 yards, motionless. He was between two trees, slightly quartered towards me, head and chest exposed. I thought "Cool, I want him!", nocked an arrow and shot quickly, thinking he was going to bolt at any moment like every other animal in the woods should have done. Mind you, this was the first live cougar I'd seen in many years of hunting, I had a slight case of "cougar fever", and was feeling the effects of a few bizillion milligrams of adrenaline coursing through my veins. My shot was high, stuck in the ground 20 feet behind him. He didn't even flinch, just stared back at me. Still thinking he might bolt at any second, I quickly shot again (one of a few mistakes, in retrospect, I'll try not to hurry any shots in the future. If they boogie, fair enough, better than a bad shot any time, especially if it results in a wounded angry cougar). Second arrow landed inches away from the first. Maybe someone was looking out for me? This time he heard the arrow and turned and looked at it for a second, and returned to staring at me again. At about this time, the synapses finally started firing in the correct order in my brain, and it occurred to me that perhaps this situation was not so cool after all. It dawned on me that this well muscled, sharp fanged, extremely quick killing machine was not only unafraid of me, but he was downright angry. My first clue was when I realized he was growling at me, and I sensed he had no intention of leaving anytime soon. No snarling like I've heard 'em do in the Disney movies, just low pitched, guttural, eery growls. The synapses went into turbo mode now, enabling me to begin fumbling for my knife, conveniently buried in my fannypack, strategically underneath the essential Chips ahoys, juice packs, jerky and such. At the time, I was unaware I could legally carry a sidearm. I'm not cougar savvy, and I wasn't sure what his intentions were. Yes folks, I was scared. I was alone in the woods, a mile from the closest road, no one knew where I was, and I have a cougar at 100ft growling at me. He had moved a few feet behind some brush now but was holding tight, still growling. What to do? I didn't think it a good idea to walk away. My mode had changed from "what a cool bow trophy a cougar would be" to "I want distance between kitty and me". Knife in one hand, bow raised over my head, hairs straight up on my neck, I charged him 15ft, screaming bloody murder. He remained unimpressed, I remained unsure of my fate. I kept up the shouting for what felt like thirty seconds, until he eventually crept away, on his own terms, and still growling. I caught a good broadside glimpse of him on the hillside, he was a sizeable cat. I retrieved my arrows, marked the spot on my GPS, and backed out of the area. Several days later a friend from my party had an encounter with what I think was the same cat a half mile from the spot. Dean heard strange noises behind a log, knelt down and nocked an arrow. About that time, a cougar hopped up on the log, ears pinned back, snarling. Dean shot it in the chest, the cat sprang up 6-8 feet and was off like a shot. They lost the blood trail a good distance away. Turns out there was a fresh doe kill on the other side of the log, the cougar was just beginning to cover it up, hence the aggressive behavior. Anyway, end of story. In my case I can't explain the aggressive behavior. I didn't stick around long enough to look for a kill or den. Are they just plain losing their fear of humans? And, had I wounded him, could he have turned on me? Any thoughts? I do know that after having my first chilling experience in the woods, I'll have cougar medicine in my pocket from now on, namely a .41 mag. I have a feeling I won't have to hunt another 20 years to encounter the next one, the way things are going.

[Mello-Yello]

That had to have been terribly unnerving to see that cat choosing to play things out with you. While reading this though, I had a thought.

You say you were doing some random cow calls. Were you also using an elk urine cover scent? I know a few guys that hunt the south end of the Olympic National Park boundary in WA. They're technique is to douse themselves in elk urine (like so many of us do), get on a herd, and try to stay on them all day until they can slink in close enough for a shot. On one particular day, one of them had this 'weird' feeling like something just wasn't right. He turned around, only to see a huge cat hunkered down only 15 yards behind him, ON THE SAME TRAIL HE'D JUST SNUCK DOWN!" This cat was stalking him, big time! As you can certainly imagine, this scared the bejeezers out of him. He, like you, forgot about everything else and focused on convincing this cat that he was something that didn't need messing with. The cat, after much resistance, slowly wandered away.

So, you have to ask yourself, at least in this case. Did the cat really have a clue he was stalking a human? Two of his key senses told him otherwise. "Smells like an elk, sounds like an elk, but doesn't exactly look like an elk. Maybe I'll just sit tight till I'm sure". I don't really know much about a cat's eyesight, but I'd presume it's pretty good. On the other hand, if the cats really hungry, and something sounds and smells like dinner, that alone may be enough to keep him interested, if somewhat apprehensive.

Just some food for thought...

M-Y

[Swamp Puppy]

where did this take place? just curious since it seems that now there is a WOUNDED couger in that area...i might want to avoid it.

sorry if that seems harsh. it is a wonderfully written story and perhaps i am wrong, but it sounds to me like a serious case of bow hunting irresponsability. while i am happy that no one was hurt in this encounter i am wondering how smart it was to take those shots at the "kitty".

[ 10-20-2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[troybuz]

Wishin' I wuz Fishin'
Great Cougar Story (It was better when you told it in person!). Next time can you tell us about your leach experience at Mann Lake???? Pictures would be great!!!!!

[WildHawg]

I personally have killed a cougar with a bow, and it was not particularly hard to kill (yes, it was treed).
If I was face to face with a cougar, I'd take my chances even on a straight on shot. Unlike a bear, they can see better than us--and if they're watching me ready to pounce, I'll be the agressor thanks, cause they've crossed the line.
To blame someone for defending themselves, or call them irresponsible is ludicrous.
Bears however, are a different story.
I have been face to face with bears, but in 2 very different situations, when I had my bow, both in the Cascades.
Case 1: I walked up on a bear munching on a deer carcass. He was upwind, and it was blowing hard enough that neither of us knew the other was there until we were 15 yards apart. When he saw me, he wheeled and ran 10 yards, then stopped broadside trying to figure out what this walking tree was. I plugged him, and was rewarded with a 225 # boar.
Case 2: I was still hunting and cow calling for elk (sound familiar) when I hear a snort and teeth chomping together. Just then, the biggest bear I have ever seen--brown in color, with what looked like a *******' hump on his back, put his front legs on top of a log in front of me, then stood up and sniffed hard. If I didn't think I know better, I'd have sworn it was a Grizzly.
I just froze, as I was downwind, and waited. Must have only been 30 seconds, he woofed and snapped his teeth again, then spun and lumbered off. No WAY I was gonna shoot at that bear. He was the king, and he knew it.
It all boils down to the behavior of your prey (or was it predator?).
I believe a cougar knows EXACTLY what you are, from a heck of a long ways away. If you see a cougar, it has seen you first in most all cases.
It chose to reveal itself.
Bears have poor eyesight. I saw both of the bears mentioned hear squinting their eyes trying to makeout what I was.
The bears and I stumbled into one another. Cougars seem to stalk people on occasion, or at least display more aggression than the average bear in my experience.
Maybe it's just me, but I suspect a predator would tend to bolt when it was wounded, as they so rarely encounter anything that is actually hunting them.
A bear, on the other hand, which is an omnivore, and far more the scavenger than the hunter, is more likely to stand his ground wounded, and fight.
I should shut up now, but to each his own. If a cougar ever stalks me, I'll make no apologies for letting one fly, even at a less than desirable angle. I want THEM scared of me.
A curious bear that happens to be attacked is more likely to stay and fight than a cat--at least in my mind.

[skein]

Every year that we go to Vancouver Island we hear of someone being attacked. Year before last it was a hiker about 10 miles from where we camp. The cougar jumped him from behind, smashing him into a rock ledge, breaking his jaw. Then it reached around with both front paws and peeled the guys face away (200 stitches in his face alone). The guy managed to get his knife out, and hug the cat to him so it couldn't use its claws efficiently, and stabbed it repeatedly, finally cutting its throat.

Moral of the story: You don't have to sound or smell like an elk to attract their attention.

Skein

[jocose]

cool stories and useful too thanks guys, i think Mr Mossberg just likes to stir the pot a bit .... best we play nice boys and keep those critical opinions to ourselves... jocose

[ 10-18-2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: jocose ]

[Swamp Puppy]

i honestly wasn't trying to "stir the pot". up to this point i haven't even taken up in any of the debate threads.

first off, i have no particular love of cougars nor would i ever try to slag someone for defending themselves. however, this cougar sounded to me like it was being defensive of a kill and not agressive as if it was going to attack.

anyway, i am not trying to cause any trouble...i just have a different take on the situation after reading his account of what happened.

[skein]

It's not a biggie, you guys. I'd hate to see anyone hesitant to post simply because they might get misconstrued. We're all learning lots from this thread.

I figure that the day is coming when I will be the one facing the big cat and I want to make the right decision, preferably one that will put him on my wall instead of me on his. I think the threat is real enough to warrant increasing my knowledge about cats.

Let's learn.

Skein

[Mello-Yello]

I don't feel Mossberg owes any apologies. He stated his opinion, and even tried to emphasize that he meant no ill intention. Everyone should be free to state their opinion, provided they don't get personal. I think he did just that.

Then again, I'm one who has an opinion on just about everything.

When I first read the story, I had to wonder why either of the shots were taken on the first cat. If you're not steadied on your target and able to release a good shot, you shouldn't release it. At this point, it wasn't self defense. It was simply a desire to tag a cat. I've let down repeatedly on animals because I'm unable to steady up. This takes a lot of discipline, but I feel it's critical not only to your success, but the welfare of the animal. Granted, I didn't always do this. It's something I've learned the hard way. I only share this in hopes that others might benefit.

"You can't wish an arrow to hit your desired target. You have to direct it there"

M-Y 2003

[Capin' Dan]

WF, I'll bet you were wishin you had a clean pair of shorts in your fanny pack. I know I would have needed them.
great story. I think that a bow is an awesome weapon and would not hesitiate to take a cougar with it. I have killed bear and Cariboo with them in the past. As far as a wounded animal goes its sad and it happens.

Dan!

[Swamp Puppy]

mello yello put it best.

i have no problem with hunting cougars (i have a tag i hope to fill) and i have no problem with bow hunting them. it just seemes to me that when one is hunting a dangerous animal, such as a cougar, certain precautions should be taken that may not normally be taken with other animals.

IMHO your shot should be as close to a 100% kill shot as possible. proper range, sight picture, ability for good shot placement, and shots that are within the ability of the shooter to competently make are all a BIG part of hunting any animal and almost mandatory in dangerous game hunting.

self defense is another story. you preserve your life and worry about the rest later. again, i didn't read it as a self defense issue, but as taking a few shots at a cat and hoping for the best.

anyway, i am through with this issue.



-Ed

[Mr. Fisherman]

I was guiding a horseback trip in Wyoming with a boy and his dad. We had a great day in the field spoting lots of game. We had crossed a river and were less than 3 miles from our upper ranch property when something just didn't feel right. The hackles on the back of my neck were on end and I was trying to figure out why when the dad said look at this. That's when I saw the cat. Not the whole cat at once but the flick of her tail as it wisped back and forth. I told the dad in no uncertain terms to head straight to the road and back towards the river with his son along side. I waited and watched the cat and carefully took a path as far from the fresh killed deer as I could. The blood had not yet coagulated in the now empty stomach cavity and I knew that the cat had a full belly. I followed the dad/son group all the way back across the river. I figured cats don't like water and it had a full belly... This should be a safe place to have lunch. Keep in mind that this was about 5 miles from where we encountered the cat.
We had our lunch and one of the ranch hands happened by in the jeep. He had the mom along and was going to try to find some wildlife for her to see. The boy told about the cat and our adventure. He had seen Elk, Deer, a Coyote and many other things but the most exciting part of his story was the cat and the dead deer.
We parted company as I was going to try to get the dad and son close to an Antelope herd that liked the next valley. As we were sneeking up on the herd the hand in the jeep starts honking the horn and waving his hands. he was pointing behind us but I tried to point out the Antelope herd in front of us. He pointed behind us, I pointed ahead of us... This went on for a while. I was hoping that he had field glasses or a spotting scope so the mom could see the antelope. We got within 150 yards by removing and replacing our hats while we hunkered down on our horses. Antelope are so curious...
When we got back to the ranch I asked if the mom got to see the Antelope. The hand said yea, but we were more interested in the Cougar that was following you! :shocked: It turns out that that cat left a fresh kill, followed us 5 miles, then crossed the river, watched us eat lunch, was within 50 feet of a running jeep, continued to follow us another 9 miles all the way back to the fence at the lower property.
That weekend I went to town and bought a .44 4" Magnum and carried it with me.
I don't trust cats. They are not interested in your ethics, they want to eat you.
We found kitten tracks within 200 yards of the kill side later that spring. It is a good thing I slowed down when I did. If there was one thing I learned from this experience it was to listen to my instincts out there.

I have another cat story. Maybe I'll tell it later...

[Birdnest]

Kitty stories always scare the chocolate out of me. :shocked:

The "growling" part is what seems to shift this from a trophy to self defense. I am no cat expert, but if a cat was stalking an elk I am pretty sure he wouldn't stop 35 yards away and start growling a warning to the elk. Sounds like that cat had a pretty good idea of what was going on and didn't like it.

If I were you I would have called in an air strike and launched a few mortars, but that is just me.

Joe

[ 10-19-2003, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Birdnest ]

[WildHawg]

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion--I for one believe that anytime a cougar DOESN'T run away from me it is a threat.
The growling is a definite tipoff--these cats hunt with a stealth approach. So it was trying to defend its kill--it was aggressive in that it didn't flee, and was not afraid to stand in there and let you know it means business.
Any cougar that allows you to see it has the potential to attack--believe it or don't.

[Norski]

I dont know where you were in the ochocos, but we were off 6210, or 6310 up camped in the medows and on the 2nd day of hunting made a push down to camp, about a 1 mile walk down hill, and I stoped just to have a look see, and I came across a kitty that was haven lunch on a grouse. I thought I wish I hade a tag, but than I wish I hade a camera.
I watched this cat for some time and than I took a stept, and it saw me and I froze, the hair, what I have stood up and the juces were flowing, chould I shoot or stay put. It was a stair down, the same growling, some time past and he went his way and I went mine but with a watchful eye.
Not only do I carry my 270, but just to be safe my .357 is with me 24/7.

[TAILOUT]

The more dead cougars the better, if it was a wound or not I would take the shot on one just to do my part.

[Wishin' I wuz Fishin']

Wow! I was hoping to get some insight, but didn't expect such a response. When I wrote the thread I expected I'd take a shot or two, and thats OK even though I thought I already admitted to the mistake Mossberg referred to. Goshdarnit I'm human, and I made a quick ill-thought out decision in a first time situation with a predator. Mossberg is right, my actions could have resulted in disaster for myself or other hunters. And, even though I have no love for cougars, they shouldn't suffer. Lesson learned. In my buddy Dean's case, I feel he had no choice but to shoot, and he did. He described the cat as being about 25ft away, ears pinned back snarling. Once again, I'm not cougar savvy, but that's a dangerous cat. He told me he hit it center mass in the chest, and I can attest he made every attempt to retrieve it.

Mello-Yello- I didn't have elk urine smeared on me at the time(seems to attract flies and bees)but I did have the bottle open on my fanny pack.

Mossberg- The incident took place in the Ochoco mountain range near St. Helens. You familiar with it? No offense taken, I'd tip a beer with you.

BBBB- I knew Ryan I should have had left Ryan for dead. Important safety tip- Even when it's hotter than blazes at Mann Lake and the water looks cool and inviting, DO NOT take your waders off when float tubing. There are man-eating leeches in there, bizillions of them! I walked on water when I felt the first one. I'll leave it at that.

Wildhawg- I had a bear approach me me last year close to the cougar incident. He had his nose to the ground and did his pigeon toed gait to within 20-25ft of me and stopped. He looked up at be for a split second and I distinctly heard him say "Ut Oh ", and he wheeled off in the opposite direction, huffing and snorting. Hey, I didn't shoot! I never had a shot and he was small anyway. It was fascinating though. I told my three year old daughter about it and she asked if he did tricks.

Capin'- Amazingly enough, my shorts were clean! I did walk out of there turning circles, knife in hand, though.

Thanks for the discussion, people. It wasn't a self defense issue in my mind initially, I thought the cougar was going to bolt and took 2 stupid shots. Ethics are what guide us when no one's looking and greed took over in my adrenaline crazed mind. You know the rest.

[ 10-20-2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[Swamp Puppy]

Wishin' - I've never been in the Ochoco's. i don't get out to the east side of the cascades as much as i'd like to. i find myself pretty much leashed to the "wet" side coast range.

i am glad to hear that you didn't take offense..none was ment, though after re-reading it i did post that rather harshly..anyway, i'd be happy to tip that beer with ya if we ever meet up.



-Ed

[skein]

Don't take us wrong, Wishin'. I, for one, was impressed with your honesty, and your story took many of us through the whole sequence of thought and action. When you rewrite the book you can be cool, brave, and fearless, and shoot with impeccable precision. But out in the woods, all alone, facing your first big cat, with your blood about 93% adrenaline I figure you did just fine.

I just hope I can remember what you told us, and act accordingly.

Some of us are planning a cougar hunt for later this winter. Check it out in the "Trout Creek Disappointment" thread. You may want to throw your hat in the ring with us.

At any rate, when we meet I get to buy the first round.

Skein

[Mello-Yello]

It's all good. It took some guts to share your experience with the rest of us, knowing full we'll you'd take some shots. I think it's key for folks, when criticizing another's actions, to do just that. Criticize their actions, not them.
WIWF, not only did you learn some valuable lessons from this encounter, but I'm sure others did too. I just wish it would happen to me.



M-Y

[ 10-20-2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[KingFisher85]

Mr.Fisherman...I'm all ears for your other cat story

[Boedy]

Speaking of Kitties, My cousin just got back from Deer hunting on the east side Beulah? Unit I think anyway. Story has it that a cat was putting the sneak on him for a few days before he finally stepped off the trail and put an end to it with a shot from his .257 Mag. I guess this thing was 8 feet from his nose to his butt not including tail and weighed something like 240-250 pounds. I have not seen the cat yet or even pictures just heard the story but I guess they think it may be a record according to the biologist who checked it in. I will post pictures of it as soon as he gets them to me.

[ 10-19-2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Boedy ]

[SMC]

Great story, Now I want to hear more about Mann Lake.

[Steelie King]

Great story and what an adventure. I am not a archery hunter but I have alot of respect for them. If I would have been in your place with my trusty rifle, we would of had a "meltdown". [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] In my opinion hound hunting needs to be reinstated for a limited amount of tags every year. The population of cats is booming. The deer and elk herds are suffering. We found aprox. 50 to 60 carcases in a 40 acre area this season. Too many. Glad to read your story.

[skein]

Steelie King,

Wow, your report of 50 to 60 carcasses in a 40 acre area really caught my attention. Can you give us more details about the condition of the kills, species (elk or deer) and anything else that would make you think it was a cat instead of a poacher with an AK47?

A friend over east found 4 carcasses in a fairly small area and was wondering about them, thinking they might have been a small herd that was targetted by poachers. The other idea was they were animals using the same area and getting picked off by a predator one-by-one.

Seriously, that's a lot of animals - more than I've ever heard about in one location. Tell us the rest of the story.

Skein

[Mello-Yello]

I read an interesting article last night. It said that sometimes, cats will go on killing sprees, where they don't even eat their kill. One cat can kill 7 or more deer in one week, yet feed on only one. Spooky huh?

[tailchaser]

I read this thread. Especially when it comes down to him missing his target and people are jumping all over him for not calming down to make a proper one. Put youself in his shoes here. Is everyone saying they would make a perfect shot when this sucker is looking at you like a big tasty meal and growling? Probably not. For most of you, you've never encountered a cougar pinned back with a low growl. I have and it's an un-nerving feeling like you could only imagine. Fortunately for me it was shot a few seconds later with a rifle from my friend. As of his friend hitting it and losing it, guess what, it happens!!!! Not every animal is retrieved. And it's not just with a bow. I know of three elk that were shot this weekend that didn't get retrieved from other hunters. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback from a compute. I know a lot of people in the hunting world and most of them will kill any cougar that crosses thier path. Whether they make it into the freezer, well they don't really care. That's what's happening out there on a daily basis. Whether it's correct or not, it's what it has come to in their minds.

As far as I'm concerned I'm happy that wishn' is ok, and able to type this story without kitty marks in his face. And for all of you who earlier in the year cried and whined about how bowhunters shouldn't have the right to bring a side arm and cougars will never be hostile, here is a classic example of who could randomly be next. I know of one other that was killed by one of our packers this year that was leaping onto him when he shot it.

OK I'm done ranting for now.

tc

[ 10-20-2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[birdhunter]

That cat was growling at you to get you to run. If you had turned around, it would have been all over. A very definite threat.

[skein]

That's good to know, Birdhunter.

That cat was growling at you to get you to run. If you had turned around, it would have been all over. A very definite threat.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">

I wonder if sometimes when we get that "hair standing up on the back of the neck" feeling, it's because we hear something like that low growling. Maybe it doesn't register, but our subconscious hears it just the same.

Skein

[ 10-20-2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: skein ]

[nitrobass]

A few years ago I walked into a timber piece where we'd killed an elk the day before. A knife was lost in the process so I hiked back in to take a look. About a hundred yards away from the kill site I heard the most gnarly growl I've ever heard, just like something in the movies. Never saw the cat, never saw the kill site that day either. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] Looked for it later in the year and couldnt find it so hopefully there isnt some well armed cat prowling around.

[Rauly]

A MESSAGE TO ALL. READ AND UNDERSTAND THE AUP BEFORE YOU POST.

I hope I don't have to do any more cleaning. Thanks.

Rauly

[ 10-20-2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[outdoor.spec.ops]

I think with all that food in your pack you may be hampered with baiting them in Chips Ahoys

I bet next time an encounter like that happens you will be calm nerved, and make the shot.

Sein

I wonder if sometimes when we get that "hair standing up on the back of the neck" feeling, it's because we hear something like that low growling. Maybe it doesn't register, but our subconscious hears it just the same.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Not to mention the squishy feeling in ones shorts :shocked:

[Gun Rod Bow]

I too had an experience like Wildhawg's with a big dominant boar black bear snapping teeth and wuffing at me. I had only a bow and was alone and elected to call my buddy in for back up and backed out. My bear tag was punched, and I really thought since we had eye contact, at very close range, he may have charged if I arrowed him, or missed.

I also missed my first shot (what's new) at a bear this year by rushing when I didn't need to. Second shot was money though

I still stand by my opinion that archers shouldn't pack guns. I see no problem with carrying a sidearm in the backcountry. I just see archery hunting as a choice to hunt without a gun, and realistically guys, looking at the statistics, I still feel safe without a sidearm in the Oregon woods.

Do you think you'd be more accurate with a hand cannon than your bow at 30 yds? Good chance of scaring him off with the noise though.

I'm no expert, but my OPINION is that the type of behavior you describe is the same a cat would display if he encountered a bear, wolf, coyote, etc.. More of a back off and stay out of my space warning. I wouldn't fault someone for not taking the shot, or being shaken, everyone has to go by their own gut on what they "feel" is right.

I'd like to think I'd settle for a shot in the same instance, but I may scream like a little girl

Thanks for the tale, I agree that hound hunting is a viable wildlife management tool that was removed by soft hearted urbanites that had seen too many Disney movies. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

BTW. The big boar I metioned never moved, for the 15 minutes it took Rich to get to me, the bear heard me talking, and I'm sure he could see me, although it also seems to me they don't see very well.

[ 10-20-2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

[Steelie King]

Skein; sorry it took so long to get back to you. Here is what we found. While hunting on pirvate property that is isolated under lock and key, we found alot small boned carcases;i.e. deer or sheep. The kills were aprox. 1 mile from the last thing that even a Jeep would attempt. The kills were at various stages of drying and all heads were attached. 75% of the bones were found under a 10 foot rock bluff that would act as a perch. I,in no way can confirm that they were cat kills but I cant belive that it was anything else. I know for a fact that there was/is a cat working the area. The last sighting was about the first of Sept. I just cant believe that this was the work of a poacher. Usually a poacher is after meat or the horns(antlers). The only way to get the meat or horns out of there is to pack them for a long, long way.
If you have another suggestion, let me know.
Steelie King,

Wow, your report of 50 to 60 carcasses in a 40 acre area really caught my attention. Can you give us more details about the condition of the kills, species (elk or deer) and anything else that would make you think it was a cat instead of a poacher with an AK47?

A friend over east found 4 carcasses in a fairly small area and was wondering about them, thinking they might have been a small herd that was targetted by poachers. The other idea was they were animals using the same area and getting picked off by a predator one-by-one.

Seriously, that's a lot of animals - more than I've ever heard about in one location. Tell us the rest of the story.

Skein [/QUOTE]

[skein]

SK,

Sure sounds like a cat to this flatlander.

That's the kind of setup we're looking for over in the Trouts. Now I know to also look closely for the white of bones and then glass that area slowly and carefully.

Sure doesn't sound like poachers at any rate. Thanks for the info.

Skein

[Critr Gitr]

dead cat = good cat

I personally arrowed one 4 years ago less than 2 miles from my front door step - &lt;1 mile from city limits. Hunting deer out of a treestand it showed itself at dusk and caught a Magnus broadhead at 18yds - around 100 lbs. That year we also encountered another cat - easily 150# or more - cleaned out a local pen of sheep. To prove it wasn't stuck of mutton we found many deer carcs. As far as I know he still is prowling the area. 4 years ago I would see as many as 13 deer out of my stands. This year the only evidence of deer have been the carcs sprinkled through the woods.

Thank you all the backers of measure 18 !!!!!!!!!

[Mello-Yello]

I'm starting to get a real uncomfortable feeling. The longer this thread becomes, the more I sense that there are folks out there that truly hate the Mountain Lion. I for one have always adored them. Not just for their beauty, but their cunning ways. Don't take me wrong. The Cougar tops my list of animals to take, particularly w/a bow. Coyotes have always been a top predator to deer populations, and they are for the most part considered scourge of the earth..i.e. a good coyote is a dead coyote. I just really hate to see cats become that. It's not their fault that they breed when given the opportunity, and that when pushed out of an area they travel to previously uninhabited areas. This whole cat issue is our fault, as a society. As we sit back and complain that dog hunting is no longer allowed, yet is the solution, what are we doing to bring it back? (I don't know, and haven't heard). Is there any real push to bring it back, or is the idea just kicked around by a few hardcore folks?

The only upside I can see from banning dog hunting, is it dramatically increases the odds of me seeing a cat in a hunting situation.

One lurking question I've yet to answer; Who controlled cat populations before we got here with our dogs? Why did they not make the deer extinct? More room to roam? I suspect that's a big part of it. Are we willing to give up our rural dwellings to free up some space?

What a mess...

[skein]

MY,

Please don't think I put the big cats in the "hate" category. I don't. I'm actually an admirer, and see in the increased numbers a chance to harvest one of the most ellusive trophies going. But I also think we need to encourage more hunters to pursue them, since their numbers seem to have reached the point of seriously impacting the other big game animals.

I want to learn more about them; where to find them, how to call them in, how to track them, etc. I intend to learn all I can and share that knowledge with my fellow hunters. I also expect to learn as much - or more - from guys who already hunt them.

But I don't hate them. I find them truly magnificent.

Skein

[Dan D]

I have got a good cougar story for you. I hunt elk in the Blue Mountains of S.E. Washington. 2 Years ago I was hunting through a thick brushy area that usually holds elk. I stepped out of the brush into a very small clearing that was maybe 30'x40'. As soon as I stepped into the clearing, I heard the most gawdawful sound and it was very close. It was not a growl, but more like a panicked scream. I could not pinpoint the noise at first, but after a second or two, the animal moved its head slightly enough to be detected. It was crouched behind a log on the backside of the clearing. All I could see was its head and face. I reacted so fast that I barely remembered the actual shot. All I remember is putting the crosshairs on its nose and pulling the trigger. The .300 Win Mag blew it backwards and that was that (or so I thought). I collected my senses and went to find one of my hunting partners. We hiked back into the area and retrieved the cat. I expected from my shot that I had blown most of its head off, but surprisingly, the animal had started to move forward over the log while I was shooting. Instead of hitting it in the head, the bullet grazed the lower cheek and penetrated the throat area. The bullet passed all the way to the rear leg. The animal was actually hit when it was jumping over the log towards me! I suspect now that it probably felt cornered and was coming at me because of that.

The cougar turned out to be a 6 1/2 year old female. She was only about 100-110lbs, but it is an experience that I will never forget.

This same area has also brought me close encounters with bears.

It will be interesting to see what this year brings as I am headed up there on Friday.

Wish me luck ELK hunting.- Dan

[Ras]

Same here Skein;

I think they are a beautiful and awesome creature......but we (our big game) only need so many.

Ras

[nitrobass]

Last night I finally got to see a couple of pics of 2 cougars a friends party shot that came in to their elk calls. I believe it was in the northside unit but I may be wrong. It was a male and a female, male weighing around 140 and female around 100.
They are such elusive animals its strange seeing them dead in pictures.

[Mello-Yello]

I hope my previous post didn't lend one to believe I'm some kind of 'animal rights' freak. I'm far from it. I desperately want to harvest at least one cat, the sooner the better. I would be tickled pink to harvest one every year. But never because I don't like them, or what 'they' are doing to the woods. If they had predation tags to help thin their population, I'd be all over that, but only because it would provide me an additional opportunity.

Years ago, a lady I knew asked me "How can you not like deer and elk?" to which I replied "I do!", she returned with "Then why do you kill them?"....well, of course I had a couple real good 'one-liners' I could throw back at her, but I didn't. She wasn't an animal rights activist, she was just someone who had been brought up in an environment that didn't include hunting, and wanted to understand how I could kill something I claimed to love. When all was said and done, I think she better understood my position, though her's was still one of confusion.

To hear people talk of hating cats, or wanting them dead, at least in my mind paints the wrong picture. To a point, I doubt most people actually mean it the way it comes out. But it does have the potential to create an image to the "undecided" that we are indeed blood thirsty, heartless creatures that just want to kill.

I dunno, it's just my opinion. I try to be cautious anymore because I want the freedom to hunt and gather. There are a lot of people that want to take that away from me.

[Stratocaster]

The more dead cougars the better, if

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Great story. But i dont agree with the kill all cougars scenario, what fun would that be? Id change my name to "brown shorts" if you were me. :grin: Cats have a place as do deer or bear. It seems that some people hate cats to hate cats. Lets hunt them and keep them at a level which ensures safety. You dont hear people talk of deer or bear as they do cougar. Is it because of their viciousness or because of?

[Mr. Fisherman]

Originally posted by KingFisher85:
Mr.Fisherman...I'm all ears for your other cat story

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I was hunting Robbers Roost in my old stomping grounds in the Idaho Wilderness. (you know the spot Chris?)
A friend and I had been hunting all day. I was just below a ridge working my way back down towards the truck in the middle of the afternoon hunt when
I saw my buddy just about running down the trail in the middle of the canyon. He would stop and look behind him like he was running from something. I worked my way down to the truck which was where he was headed. When I got there he was as white as a sheet. I noticed that he didn't have his gun or his back pack and asked what happened.
He told me that he had stopped for lunch at the canyon overlook at the top of the saddle. He finished a sandwich and started to drift off taking a nap against a tree when something just knocked the wind out of him. He said there was no warning whatsoever. He said he was knocked away from his gun and all he could do was gasp for breath and roll away from a Mountain Lion that was attacking him. He was afraid for his life! The cat was between him and the rifle, his back was to the overlook which was about a 60 foot cliff.
He was able to reach his backpack and held it over his head. He started to get his wind back and said the adrenaline was really pumping. He held the pack over his head and charged the cat changing positions. He threw the pack at the cat and made his escape down the narrow trail. He just wanted to go home. He was not at all interested in retreiving his rifle or pack. I insisted on collecting his gear and had a shot gun in the truck. I was carying a .44 magnum in addition to my rifle. He took a lot of convincing but I told him that If I went all the way back up there by myself I was going to eat the rest of his lunch and add the rifle to my collection. He reluctantly joined me carying the shotgun loaded with 00 buck shot and slugs.
When we got to the scene his rifle was about where he remembered it. I could see the tracks and was surprised how big the paw prints were. He didn't mind carying the shotgun and his rifle off the mountain. For some reason they gave him comfort. We found the backpack. I didn't see anything wrong with it but he was very shaken. It was starting to get dark as we headed back down the canyon.
Just as it was getting really dark and our eyes were adjusting to the moonlight we heard the howel. It sounded like a sick baby then turned into a sound that raised all of the hackles on the back of my neck. Now I wanted the shotgun back but my friend was NOT going to give it back to me. He told me he would give me the rifle for the shotgun. I told him to just carry it back to the truck for me. The trip back to the truck sure didn't take as long as I thought it should and when I said I thought I had lost the keys I was nearly shot. I started to ask him to roll down the window but he didn't think that was funny either.
That was a trip we will never forget and to this day he will not hunt in that area.
I do not trust cats. I'm not even sure I would want one for a rug.

[chromebright]

Since we are talking about cats and I am leaving for elk hunting this morning here http://www.kgw.com/environment/stori....3f2253e7.html is an interesting article related to both. I like the topic of this article because instead of just focusing on the effects of predators on big game, it also is about how these effects impact real people.

[FishinTechnician]

Here's another more benign encounter with a cougar. Happened back in the 80's while my son and I were hunting elk in Chesnimnus. As we entered the edge of a big meadow we split up I told my son to skirt the edge of the timber while I slipped down into the canyon below. As he was moving along the edge of the timber he saw an elk laying on the ground about 50 yards in front of him. He looked at through his scope and saw a cougar's tail come up from behind the elk. He watched the cougar for a few minutes. The cougar finally spotted him, snarled at him and jumped up and ran down into the canyon below. I heard something coming above me and all of a sudden here comes the biggest Tom cougar on the planet. He passed less then 50' in front of me. He was Later we checked on the elk and it had been gutted and the cougar had eaten all the major organs. The elk was larger than a calf, but smaller than a year and half old cow. We figured there was probably something wrong with it. That cougar had killed it about 150 yards farther up in the meadow and had dragged it to where it started feeding on it. A little excitement to say the least. You couldn't kill cougars in those days. I'll bet there are a lot of them up there now.

[skein]

I might as well throw in my cougar story, only it wasn't my story until later....

A bowhunting friend was stalked by one and ended up shooting it with his bow. That in itself was a pretty harrowing tale, including a screaming cat, a running dude, and a pretty excited camp when he got back.

We had a shotgun in camp for grouse, and a 30-06 for bear, so we loaded up and headed back in to find it. Trust me, that was a pretty tense time, but find it we did, and it was dead. It was a tom, and we guessed the weight at about 135 lbs.

Now the fun part.

I'm allergic to cats so I told the guys, "Well, we're gonna find out if I'm effected by the big guys," as we started to drag it out to the rig. And I am. By the time we got to the truck both my eyes were swelled shut and I could hardly breathe. I was just staggering around in the road, gasping for breath. With the help of the guys and my wife I got loaded in the truck and taken back to camp. She got some benadryl down me and stripped my clothes off and had me lay down. I don't really remember much after that, but I wasn't able to hunt that evening. By the next day I was up and at 'em again.

So do I really want to go cougar hunting? &lt;hehehe&gt; Absolutely! But you guys are responsible for the packing and skinning part. I'll go cook supper. :grin:

Skein

[BrokeItOff]

Related to this topic. I saw one cougar growing up there 20 years ago and sign was not very common. Now you can track cougars driving down the road and watching for tracks in the snow,and see them fairly frequently.

http://www.registerguard.com/news/20...hunt.1027.html

[BIG4_score]

Great story, hit home with this one. My brother and I were bowhunting in the cascades a few years ago and had a cat cross between us and a small heard of elk we where following. We however were unable to get a shot off. :depressed: My hats off to you!!!

[Birdnest]

Looks like we have a few new friends.

Shotshell and Big4_Score...welcome.

Joe

[1eyed]

I am ready to go.

Have Tag, .340 Mag, shoot straight and not allergic to cats.

I have had a few cougar encounters that scared the U no what out of a guy. I have always bought a tag during Bow season but said I would not kill one unless I really had too.

The cougar population is getting out of control and if they don't wake up and start doing something about it, the elk/deer populations in this state are going to continue to suffer. :depressed:

[BrokeItOff]

Yikes!!!!

http://www.registerguard.com/news/20...lumn.1106.html

[Zippy]

Great story and good thread. After watching the place I hunt go downhill after hunting it for 20 years and finding increasing evidence and siteings of Cats in the time since hunting them with dogs became banned,I am of the opinion that all of us who hunt should purchase a mountain lion tag ($10) and plan to fill it at your first opportunity. we have to take it upon ourselves to fill in the void created by the dog hunting ban or acknowledge that times have changed and we will be competing for fewer animals with a competitor who knows no limits. Just my $.02

[SLEDDER]

I will be hunting kitties this Dec. in Idaho. They are smart, use dogs. I will either be using a bow or a 223. Cats don't have much lung capacity. If you take out a lung or two they don't go far. When Oregon finally figures out that dogs are the answer to the rising cougar pop. then I am sure some monsters will be harvested.