Wolter's Training Books

Mello-Yello · 10-16-2003, 09:42 PM

As most of you know, I'm the proud poppa of a 'almost' 7 week old yellow lab. I've had several bird dogs over the years, and they've done ok, but have had to rely a lot on their natural instincts. I'm looking at two of Wolter's books, and am curious how many other folks have used them, and what they thought of them.
Water Dog and Family Dog Since Riley's role in the family will be family dog first, retriever second, I figure I owe it to him to allow him the best opportunity to reach his potential at both.

All opinions, both positive and negative will be gladly accepted.

M-Y

Ras · 10-16-2003, 09:49 PM

Check out one of his other books as well, I think it is "Bird Dog". Though it does lean toward pointing breeds, I used it (along with the others) on my choc, and am very happy. My gal fills the same niche in our family; business / travel partner, and family pet. And, boy does she like her birds when it's time to get with it!!

Nothing like instincts

Ras

Fishbone · 10-17-2003, 04:18 AM

I particularly enjoyed reading Wolters' GAME DOG book. He also has a few instructional videos on the subject. Interesting guy.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Labsforme · 10-17-2003, 05:51 AM

If you look at most of the retriever web sites Wolter's books are called outdated for many reasons.With more modern training methods you can get a more polished and better handling dog(IMHO).Look up Lardy,Evan Graham,D. and Ann Walters,Dahl,etc.There are too many times it's necessary to be able to handle a dog over 150 yds(esp goose hunting) and it really makes for a good hunting companion.It does not mean putting the thumb screws to the dog.Just better programs.Pick a program you feel that fits your needs and stick with it.Get into a training group and have more fun and less frustration.Most of all enjoy your pup.
Jeff

Chromaflage · 10-17-2003, 06:26 AM

I've trained several dogs and use a variety of methods. I have used different methods and found that no one method is applicable to all dogs. Regarding Wolters, I have found that all of his books are pretty similar. The differences mainly lie with what you will be using your dog for - upland, waterfowl, etc. The other sources I use are James Lamb Free's "Training Your Retriever" and another book called "10-minute Retriever."

A lot of what I have used depends on a couple things - 1. How I want to communicate to the dog; 2. What I want the dog to do; 3. How easy the dogs takes to training; and 4. Problem areas.

Before I got my first dog, I did a ton of research and most of the "professional" training had these in common:

1. Start the dog as early as possible
2. It's most important to develop the retrieving instinct as early as possible
3. Obedience, obedience, obedience!
4. Break to shot early - bang on things, fire a cap gun, etc during feeding time

Some things that I've learned:

1. Don't try to steady our dog too early
2. Get the dog to water ASAP after it starts retrieving and delivering
3. NEVER throw your dog in the water - ease him/her into the water
4. If you use a training collar, let the dog wear it for about three weeks with no stimulation - or he'll become collar-wise.

Just remember that there are several ways to deal with a particular training issue - sometimes you have to be creative.

Let me know if there are specific issues that you ned assistance with and I'll be glad to do what I can to help.

ORS
(probably more info than what you were looking for) :smile:

[ 10-17-2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: OregonRedside ]

skein · 10-17-2003, 06:45 AM

I'm an absolute Wolter's fan. Water Dog is, IMHO, the best one to start with, but not an end-all. The Water Dog video is a good one too, with lots of subtle hints you will notice as you watch it. Don't hesitate to get the other books as well, but WD is a great starter book.

Don't worry about Riley being a family dog. Labs ARE family dogs.

I also agree with ORS, start early, make it fun, and do it yourself. My brother is sending his lab off to be trained and while he will most likely end up with a more polished dog than mine, I wouldn't have thought of missing the fun and bonding time we had (have) while we work together.

Have fun! This is a great trip you're embarking on.

Skein

Chromaflage · 10-17-2003, 06:57 AM

One other thing I forgot to mention. Allways be mindful that YOU are the Alpha male to your dog. And while you are training him, you are also building a relationship with him. He will learn YOUR subtleties and key off of them. Kind of like a poker player's "tell."

The one ting I don't like about Wolters is his philosohpy that a working dog cannot be a pet - at least that's the impression he gives. I say bunk! My dogs are my kids' buddies, but when it's time to work, it's like throwing a switch.

Another 0.02

ORS

reeldick · 10-17-2003, 09:55 AM

I trained my old black lab using "Water Dog" as my base of information. I, like you, wanted a hunting dog and also a family dog. I think the book takes you through the steps you need to get a well trained retriever. I used my lab for ducks and grouse only.
Going by the book may not get you a qualified national field champion but it will get you a dog trained in the basics of retrieving and well manored.

crabbait · 10-17-2003, 10:30 AM

Wolters is great for the first 16 weeks. He rapidly peters out after that.

James Lamb Free is good and so is the Tri-tronics book (whether you use a collar or not).

Consistent training is the key and starting early to teach the dog to learn. Keep lessons short, train with love (while firmly establishing dominance) and be consistent.

Remember, you are training the dog all the time. If you give a command from your armchair that you are not willing to get up and enforce, you just trained the dog to ignore your commands. Don't be surprized when the dog is confused that you occasionally demand that he obeys!

1pump · 10-18-2003, 04:40 AM

I used Wolters for my first dog. His methods were fun and easy to use, especially for a first timer. I would agree that his books are rather dated, but it worked out OK for me. If I wanted trial-quality results, I'd probably go with something else.
Dog training isn't that hard, as long as you take the time. I got a lot of personal satisfaction out of doing it myself.

Quote:

If you give a command from your armchair that you are not willing to get up and enforce, you just trained the dog to ignore your commands.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Excellent advice from crabbait. My ex-wife used to complain that my dog didn't listen to her for exactly that reason. The dog was smart enough to realize that she didn't have to obey because there was never any enforcement. Or maybe my dog was just following my example.

[ 10-18-2003, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: 1pump ]

Capin' Dan · 10-18-2003, 09:41 PM

Wolters is a very good start. I recommend Family dog to everyone I talk to about labs. Why, Well wolters did the research with the seeing eye dog foundation and actually got into the dogs head. He will tell you why a dog is doing what it is doing and at what stage in its life to expect set backs. Once you understand this then training gets much easier. Dogs aren't bad and don't misbehave by nature they want only to please. usually what we take as bad behavior is just a misunderstanding.

Here is my must read list:
Wolters in this order

Family Dog
Water dog
Gun dog
The ten minute retriever/pointer
Mike Lardy's is a good read too.

Don't worry about the dated material of wolters it still works today.

Dan!

[ 10-18-2003, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Capin' Dan ]

skein · 10-18-2003, 11:14 PM

RAULY! Where is the MODERATOR??? EDIT this post before our wives read it and get the picture!

Quote:

The dog was smart enough to realize that she didn't have to obey because there was never any enforcement. Or maybe my dog was just following my example.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">What if they figure out why we know we can just stay in the chair through the second overtime without worrying about retribution? They will actually start EXPECTING compliance. Ohmygod. :grin:

Skein

Mello-Yello · 10-18-2003, 11:14 PM

On my last two dogs, I referenced the 'seeing eye dogs' training format. I found it extremely enlightening, and saw first hand that a dog of 6 weeks really is capable of learning. I especially like the emphasis that at this early age, everything is fun.

I've always relied heavily on common sense (the only real gift I was granted). If you watch a mother dog, when she's had enough, she makes it very clear that she won't tolerate a certain behavior, yet immediately goes back to a loving caregiver. I've not only used this with my dogs, I use it in everyday life.

"Get ugly early"