Party hunting. Is it a problem.

Rank Amateur · 10-18-2005, 11:49 PM

I have been noticing for a long time the amount of party hunting that goes on. For me, party hunting is defined by a hunter without a tag for an animal, killing it for another in the party. This takes on several forms, one being shooting multiple animals at one time or after filling a tag continueing to hunt and filling tags. Some people just hunt with out ever having a tag, but are with a party of people.

I would hope we can all agree that party hunting does effect how many people are allowed to hunt in a unit under the controlled draw format. Success rates rise due to party hunting and thus less tags can be let out. With this in mind answer the following questions.

BrianMaguire · 10-18-2005, 11:51 PM

I did not vote for the the top and bottom question becasue I really don't know if it is or not a problem.

gottafish · 10-19-2005, 12:14 AM

I have seen this first hand about 7 years ago in ukia there was a comp of 8 guys and they had 5 tags but they all were hunting. I went to town to get some batterys I had forgot and saw a game cop and told him about it . he basically said there wasn't squat he could do until the downed a animal. anyone can carry in the woods at anytime. ect. (Bowhunters AT the time) Which brings up another point I saw a few guys carrying side arms this year. I wonder how many deer/elk were shot with those??? All good questions that nobody has answers to but its all a part of the problem.

Smoked Salmon · 10-19-2005, 12:19 AM

I guess I always thought I party hunted, but reading the definition it doesn't seem to fit.

If I'm with other people hunting as a "team," I figure that we share whatever is legally shot. If I'm tagged out (hah!) I'll carry a shotgun with pellets, and be a scout for deer/elk. It's the same deal as fishing, where everyone goes home happy!

Bill

gottafish · 10-19-2005, 12:31 AM

I hear what your saying, I think the crowding becomes a problem when you get say a 1000 tags for a unit and you should have a 1000 hunters in said unit but in reality you have 1500+ because there are a few extas in many camps. It does happen I hear it all the time. Add in a few local folks that didn't draw and You get the picture. I have no idea how they could ever stop it. yea sure they catch a few here and there but most get away with it. I have been hunting Oregon for over ten years now and Have yet to be checked for a tag or licence, This includes fishing. In Michigan I would get checked 4 to 10 times a year. Things gotta change

native · 10-19-2005, 01:13 AM

you sure like to stir the pot

Bait O' Eggs · 10-19-2005, 07:03 AM

Party hunting is a very hard ticket for the gammies to issue, because they have to catch the hunter in the act.

Just making the gammie catch the hunter with a center fire rifle is hard enough.

Rifles are easy to ditch in the brush just off the road, and pick up later, or come out to the road, check around for a white pickup, then go back and get the gun and get it in the truck in a hurry.

Removing the no packing a centerfire rifle rule without a valid deer/elk tag would lead to more party hunting. :tongue:

So why do you want to beat this to death Rank?

Do you think you need to be able to pack a centerfire rifle the few weeks a year you cant?

If you want to cougar and or bear hunt, you can always pack a muzzleloader, shotgun or pistol (I recommend filing the front sight off the pistol

)

If anything we need a way to make it easier for the gammie to catch the bad guys. 4 guys hunting together with 1 or 2 elk tags, and 4 cougar tags, all 4 packing a gun in the woods leads to just to much temptation for a lot of hunters when the one with the cougar tag (no elk tag) has the big bull step out in front of him.

BANG, BANG, BANG, followed by,
"Dufus 1 to Dufus 2, you got a copy"
"This is Dufus 2, was that you shooting 1"
"Ya, you need to get over here right away"

This is not what we need more of in this state.

Making anything easier for the poacher and harder for the gammie, is like making gammies only work 8am - 5pm shifts, and limit the gammie to driving 60 mile round trips in a day. Poachers (not hunters) will be killing 31 miles from the OSP office in the night.

I suspect in the future if we see tons of guys packing shot guns and muzzleloaders in the off season, they will be banned also

ehunter · 10-19-2005, 07:08 AM

Party hunting is nothing more than poaching if you have filled your tag and shoot a animal for some one else. I have also seen guys do it in some drive situations where they push deer to a stander and he shoots 2 bucks. Drive hunting is legal but you should only shoot your own animal. It is very hard to manage and monitor now that every one can be carrying a rifle in any season.

Personaly I don't see what the satisfaction is.
I don't want to hang my tag on some ones elses animal and nobody that spends gas time and buys gear needs the meat that bad. That old excuse is a joke most people can buy 1/2 of a cow for what they spend to go hunting. Plus holding the tag only means you get to try it is no gareentee.

StevenB · 10-19-2005, 07:11 AM

I think party hunting and party fishing are a problem and a valid topic. If we ignore it we are going to wake up too late.

If Rank wanted to just stir the pot he would have come out with a brash statement like calling party hunters what they really are. Law breakers or hog hunters.

One of the problems is, I believe, what Rank and others are calling it. Party fishing and party hunting is in fact fish and game hogging.

By calling it party hunting it sounds tolerable to keep hunting with a shotgun with buckshot or a handgun after taking ones deer or elk is to ignore the idea of sharing the opportunities to hunt and fish.

I think in fishing self proclaimed sportsmen validate it with the logic that they are being cheated out fishing opportunities by alotments for commercial fishermen. In truth they are just cheating each other sport fishermen out of fishing opportunities as they party fish to take from the evil commercial fishermen.

A hunter who keeps hunting as long as there is an unfilled tag in his party has to ignore the obvious fact that they may be shooting an animal that would otherwise be someone elses animal. Or among other possibilities the tag fillers/game hogs next years animal. :shocked:

I think that we are no longer sprotsmen if we allow someone else to fill our tag for us or if we fill our own tags as well as others. I also think it is justified in the same way any type of cheating is justified. With shallow thinking.

I'm not sure what Bill meant by his comment about everyone going home happy.

Quote:

It's the same deal as fishing, where everyone goes home happy! Bill

I would suggest that if 5 hunters go home with their tags filled and they followed all the laws in regulations those 5 hunters are going to be very happy. If 5 hunters go home with five filled tags but only two of the hunters shot the five animals is the same level of happieness achieved? It's natural to want to fill ones tag but if one is going to break a law to do it becomes someone elses loss doesn't it.

Everyone I think understands that hunting and fishing are not meant to be win or loose by the number of times we bag our limit individually or as a group. Some might think I'm just a poor at fishing or hunting so I'm just bitter. That is what is known as a "red herring" in a debate. It has nothing to do with this topic. I could be a poor fisherman or hunter and still be contributing to the problem by allowing others to fish my fish and kill my game.
Eventually there is someone who does not go home with a game animal of a fish.

To justify hog hunting as party hunting to make the shared game meat go around further is the oldest excuse in my opinion. I think it's just as lame as the guy who submits a Bighorn tag applications for his wife as well as himself. His wife draws a tag and he brings her to the area of the hunt and he shots the ram. That guy just thinks he doubled his odds of ever getting to shoot a ram. In the eyes of justice I think he was just as much a criminal as if he went and shot a ram without even applying for a tag.

One last experience I had on hog hunting as I would rather call it. I know someone who hog hunts elk in Saddle Mt. They use radios and work a 5 square mile area with reprod. They work hard at it too which is fine but hey, no one ever left their gun in camp as bulls were taken. This fellow and I were debating tag filling and his ultimate point was that eventually hunting was just going to be for the rich anyway. The dooms day argument in other words. Another red herring and I fell for it at the time.

I think if hog fishing and hunting is not brought to an end as I see it happening today there will be a real dooms day in our collective hunting and fishing opportunities.

StevenB

Smoked Salmon · 10-19-2005, 08:01 AM

The "everyone goes home happy" rule that I work under is that everyone must have a valid tag for the activity, and that any fish/game is shared equally, and no poaching occurs. So, 3 people in the boat, 2 sturgeon caught, each person gets 2/3 of a sturgeon. Same way with elk/deer. When the season is over, my friends and I will split whatever meat was harvested during our joint hunts.

I'm not so sure I would be able to withstand the temptation of a 5x5 at 40yds if I knew there was an unfilled tag close by, which is why I would choose to not carry in that situation. But that is me, and my choice.

Hope that explains the "happy" rule.

Bill

StevenB · 10-19-2005, 08:46 AM

I Get It Bill !!! You do party hunt !!! You said what I said in your post but you were just less inflamitory about how you said it.

As I stated earlier Game Hog hunting gets called Party Hunting because it focuses on the practice of sharing the meat among all the hunters in a group of game hogs. They keep going into the woods to hunt after filling their own tags tough.

One of the problems with game hogs is they've borrowed (perhaps by a miss understanding) a very nice term from people who share the meat that is taken in a group of hunters.

On my first deer hunt ever I met a game hog. He was in his early 20's or so and I was 15. He was loading a nice mature buck into the trunk of a sedan. It was in the middle of the day in the camp I was hunting out of. (Those days I used to hunt morning and evening only)

Me: Wow nice buck

Game Hog: Yeah it's number 21 for me.

Me: (Thinking) let's see you are in your early 20's and 21 bucks later...

With no further comment Slam !!! goes the trunk lid. He gets in and drives off. The game hog was looking more concerned about getting the buck to a place where an enforcment officer wouldn't see it them happy about getting his nice 4 point buck. I wonder if that guy ever figured out he had a problem that wasn't getting fixed by his no problem in getting a deer on the opening day.

ehunter · 10-19-2005, 08:55 AM

Steven your being too polite it plain old poaching after one has no tag left. Poaching is taking game either out of season or in season with out the valid tag. It is against the law it is poaching so lets not mix words game ect it is poaching... :grin: The older I get the lest politicaly correct I like to be

Bill was sharing game meat with the party and we do the same if my partner shoots it I get half thankfully he is a better shot

. If he is done he is my guide and sheba ect and I am his he still gets to enjoy the whole wiht the exception on shooting another animal the same for me.

StevenB · 10-19-2005, 09:05 AM

How about after a few weeks we run the same poll and replace the tem party hunting with poaching. You are correct ehunter. Game hog is just candy coating poaching for what it is.

I'm a game hog in the true sense as I don't always go with that share the catch and kill rule.

Rank Amateur · 10-19-2005, 09:13 AM

Yep, I do like to stir the pot. I guess its my character flaw. Being a forum, I want to discuss these issues, so I can understand how everybody else feels. Some times I feel like the lone ranger out there. Some times I get so wound up that it distracts from my good time camp atmosphere and I'm sure my hunting partners get tired of hearing it. But, alas that is the way I'm am.

B.O.E. you took me wrong, no harm done!

Thanks for being honest guys, some of you had the guts to mark that you party hunt. I would suspect that some did not mark that column, but do. For the ones that don't believe in party hunting you have all expressed my opinion, so no need to pile on.

I grew up in a family that party hunted. It was not even thought about back in the good days. I have party hunted in the past, for deer, but never elk. I guess the turning point for me was when we started going to controlled hunts. It became very obvious to me that by my actions, I was either taking game from somebody else or causing sombody else to stay home. I also became very aware that the people that were party hunting were stealing game from me. I know I was a thorn in the side to the people that I used to hunt with, but I think they too came to the same conclusion that I did. So that's my story.

The big question is, how do we stop it? The current methods are not working, so why continue down that path? The one thing that does seem to set the boys back on their heels is when they are caught. $5,000 bails per offense makes them cry. We all know that OSP is seriously under funded, but we also know that we will never have enough cops to have an effective force, at least how we are doing it now. I would like to see OSP go more undercover in the field, set up a camp next to the known big party camps, there not hard to spot, they are there every year. Get some good video equipment and document the camp from a distance. It will be easy to document the wives that just go along because they have a tag. Also ride in the parties hip pocket, in the field. Don't rush in to make a single pinch, wait, gather intel and when most of the damage has been done, hang paper. These busts will get wide spread attention and will eventually give pause to the people breaking the rules.

The other solution that is out there is to just forget about it, open it wide open to party hunting. Of coarse the tag numbers will have to be cut back even further and you can expect everybody to be in the woods, but in a way that is where we are at now!

Smoked Salmon · 10-19-2005, 09:25 AM

Are you talking contract work now?

Lets see. If OSP paid me $1000 out of the $5000 ticket for providing them with all the info they need (pics, affadavits) for a successful poaching prosecution, would it be worth the time and trouble? YES!!!

Especially in this neck of the woods, where I could probably nail up 2-3 poachers a week without even trying.

Rank Amateur · 10-19-2005, 09:30 AM

You know, I had another local approach me with that idea too. Bounty hunters! I know that would not fly, but is an interesting thought. I would think we would have to bring in other trained police officers, retired or from city or sheriff offices. 20 highly trained surveillence teams made up of 3 guys would be very effective. Of coarse we would have to foot the bill.

ehunter · 10-19-2005, 09:45 AM

Actaully rank the poachers would foot the bill. After awhile we it would taper off... :grin:

dla · 10-19-2005, 10:18 AM

Party hunting exists. It is made much worse by the over-selling of tags and the goofy little compressed hunts. My point is that the ODFW is mostly responsible for the problem of party hunting.

Game enforcement is a joke, so I don't know why the OSP doesn't snap out of denial and explore other methods.

One method that I like is the "anybody can rat on you and your license automatically gets dinged". Basically creating something similar to a "driving record". Only someone with a hunting license can rat on you, and it is not anonymous. But it should as easy as accessing the web. After certain number of dings (unsucessfully challenged) you can't buy a license. "rat" means sending in a picture, reporting a vehicle license number, etc. - anything identifying the individual.

My idea hinges on self-policing by hunters. The OSP clearly can't do the job, so I think there should be another way to do it.

weekender · 10-19-2005, 12:23 PM

I think you guys would find it harder to police than your giving it credit for. Filling your tag and still carrying a rifle doesnt make you guilty of poaching, it makes you guilty of carrying a rifle without a tag. How many times have you actually witnessed a person shooting a big game animal when you knew they didnt have a tag?

If Joe blow (non game offical) walked up to me and asked to see my tag I would laught at him...Outloud. It has my name, address, ODL #, hunter ID# on it. I'm not just going to pass that information out to some stranger that I meet in the woods.

jvp · 10-19-2005, 12:51 PM

:lurk:

ehunter · 10-19-2005, 12:59 PM

There is another possiblity and that is do what some of the eastern states have done. You buy your party tag and during that season it is legal for every one in the group shoot a deer or elk until the tags are all filled.

If you do that then the numbers of hunters will be limited to by groups and the OFWD will have to decrease the amount of the tags issued.

Or make it required to have your tag visible on your person like some of the Eastern States.

Of course we can bury our heads and do nothing and let the poaching go on stealing the game from the rest of us.

In our current situation which is continued falling game numbers it may get to the point that we will have to hire people (proffesional) to hunt in our groups so we can get at least one deer per group. Or we can go to a hunt every 2 or 3 years due to lack of game.

I think allowing any one to carry a gun after their tag is filled is just adding fuel to the fire. Sorry for those law abiding guys who really want to hunt cougars or bears or yotes what else can you do??? But to make it not legal to cary a fire arm during those tag required hunts.

Krijack · 10-19-2005, 01:06 PM

Several years ago I was hunting with a group of friends doing drives. About 1 mile from the road they pushed a real nice buck up to me. They all stayed while I gutted the dear. I tagged the deer, dragged it close to the road, made sure it was hid,then spent the rest of the day trying to push deer to my freinds. I guess I could have left my gun behind, or tried dragging the deer out myself, but instead I emptied the chamber and clip and helped them conduct drives. I never would shoot anothers deer, but I think you can see the problem with telling us that we can't carry our guns in the woods without our tags. What if I had left the deer behind and then walked out to the truck to get a game cart. If it was illegal to be in the woods without a tag, would the game warden actually believe me and wait an hour or two for me to come back with my deer?

Rank Amateur · 10-19-2005, 04:43 PM

I hope you don't run into Joe Blow landowner, he does have the right! Yep, I don't think you could do it without a badge, but again doesn't that bounty hunter on T.V. have one!

I could have hung paper on 6 people this year in deer camp, probably with little effort. Sorry, cell phone did not work there nor did I see a Stater. Its not that tough, people are being very open about it, as long as you are not driving a white pickup and wearing a blue uniform. That's not a bash against our officers, they are just doing as directed and what funding will allow.

DAB · 10-19-2005, 04:45 PM

Where I work the foreman goes with a good size party over in eastern OR. out of bend.
He came back with his buck and said that it wasn't the only ONE HE KILLED.

He does it every year. What I wonder is how does He get a TAG every year , He always goes deer hunting every year. Same goes for elk.
How can, or what can one do to stop this crap. I can not prove that he fills more than his tag, other than he said he did.
DAB

Norski · 10-19-2005, 06:36 PM

I started hunting about 46 years ago, back when there was no east side/ west side draw, I can remember it so well, my birthday my parents had a friend who had a cabin just east of LaPine, and my mom asked me what I would like to do on my birthday, I said GO HUNTING, and my sister said tell mom that you want to go see the Beatles, as you all know them today, I said to her I could care less about them long haired guys, and we went hunting, I saved my money, and they bought me my first 30/30 savage rifle, just me and my dad, My dad never shot anything, would not kill a fly, and much to his dismay, we should go see the rock band, as with 6 in the family it would of been cheaper.
We hunted, I was bored, no deer, my dad said well he well give it up, I never did, about 4 years later dad and I went up to Walton Lake for the opener, he didn't want to go, but mom said the time you spend with him well be good, and dad just bought his first and only Chev impala, he hated that car, he was a ford man, and on the opening weekend I shot my first deer, it was a spike, my dad looked at that deer, and said are you happy now, and being a young teenager, I said yep.
About 2 years later I was bugging him to take me hunting, so he brawled a 30/06 from his fish en buddy, and we headed off to the Tillamook burn to deer hunt, and I can remember this as it was yesterday, we pulled off the HWY 26, and was going north, it was a bumpy road, and I was just about asleep, he hit the brakes, I said whats going on, he said a big buck just went by the front of the car, I jumped out, Dad said go west there should be a road, go to it, and see what happens, I did, and I was standing in that road when I here a shot, and this ???Deer/Elk comes crashing through the brush, and falls dead, on the road just in front of me, Dad said did I get him, I YELL Back Yes you did, Dad said how big is he, I said Real big, as it echo through the canyons, I said to my dad, you didn't shoot a deer, you shot a Elk, He said Shut up, and I yelled back you shot a elk.
Well when we got back home my mom watched as we backed the impala back to the garage, she came out and said, Well how did it go?? I said dad needs glasses, he shot a elk!!! My mom said thats the last time you are going hunting to my dad.
They didn't need to Deer, or Elk as dad worked for the government, and so he never went again.
But I have been ever year I have received a tag.

Now when you say Party Hunt, or Hog Hunting,
there were some here that flamed my back side for the post I put on here,
I was raised that if you hunt with Dad, or 5 others, if I get my Deer, on the opening day, I tag it, and I am done-----------..
I may go out and watch the other guys, and one thing I didn't say was this year, I was done about 30 minutes after day light, but I carried my 357, in it's holster, and I had a deer forkie run with in 15 feet of me and 3 others shot at it, I wish I had a camera, as I could of dropped it, but mr. forkie ran off, no one in my group said you should of shot it, Hay I got mine, now get yours.
Point is I was raised to be on the right, not the left, so when it comes to hunting, driving a car, if you, screw up you get the bill, and I don't need any more than what I have now.
After the days hunt is over, to me it's time for some Pendleton, and a good steak, and off to dream land.
I do know there are hunters and fisherman who bend the rules way to much, but the group I hunt with, or fish with go by the books.

InPursuit · 10-19-2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

You know, I had another local approach me with that idea too. Bounty hunters! I know that would not fly, but is an interesting thought. I would think we would have to bring in other trained police officers, retired or from city or sheriff offices. 20 highly trained surveillence teams made up of 3 guys would be very effective. Of coarse we would have to foot the bill.

Rank, I like your idea! I fit into one of the above categories and I have several co-workers who would also like to do something like that on our weekends.

I know that right now, OSP does hire retired troopers to come back on a part time basis to handle various duties for them. We just need to convince them that this (poaching, party hunting etc.) is a big enough problem to justify the expense.

G-Dubb

Rank Amateur · 10-19-2005, 10:42 PM

Well, let's wrap this one up too. For Brian, 62% of the respondents say party hunting is a problem. Frankly I am surprised that many view it as I do.

Even more surprising is the number of people who were honest and admitted party hunting. 23% I would suspicion though that the number is actually higher with the thought that mainly concerned sportsmen bother to be on this forum and discuss these issues. I would not be surprised if the true number is not around 40%. Don't have anything to back that up with but years of experience and the nose of an ex-cop.

Interestingly, even some of the party hunters don't want us to give up on policing the party hunting since 80% said keep on trying.

I think the bottom line though is, we will have to adapt to the new changes which are allowing party hunting to continue. OSP needs to change tactics. We may need to fund extra police.

Thanks for participating.

sunshinefisherman · 10-20-2005, 04:37 AM

I do not agree with the definition given for party hunting.

Party hunting is the only way under the draw system to make sure you hunt with your buddies other than hunting general season. You might as well say that fathers only take their kids hunting so they can fill the kid's tag!

I do not believe that there is more poaching under party tags than under regular draw or general season tags. I would guess that in general, people who put the time and effort into applying for a party tag are more likly to share a dedication to the sport and would therefore be less likely to poach.

Silver Eagle · 10-20-2005, 05:45 AM

From most of these posts I see you guys hunt with guys, what about the few of us that hunt with family, I will be the first to say that I have put my tag on an animal someone else shot, it was my wife a few years ago, we were on a drive and she shot the first Forked horn thru the timber it was in thick brush a few minutes later she shot what she thought was the same forked horn, but it was the second one thru, she didn't shot the spike, but since I hunt with my family and there kids I think Party hunting takes on a new meaning to us, we live close to each other share all are game and have rarely fill all our tags, I think with the number of tags that are given out in some of these units it would be impossible to fill all the tags offered by ODFW, but I will tell you one thing my Family will always remember the times we spent hunting togeather, and I have been hunting with them for over 45 years......Ray

traks44 · 10-20-2005, 07:17 AM

Well I would just like to add the reason party hunting was invented back in the day was to put meat on the table. They didnt care who shot what as long as the tags were filled and everyone had meat. Although some may think differently I know some people who do party hunt because they honest to God need the meat. Dont take this the wrong way, but it seems many of you walk around with a regulation book in your hand while you are hunting. I mean enjoy the experience in the woods. Alot of you come all the way from the valley and probably dont like alot of the stuff that happens down here, but tuff cookies. OSP isnt gonna change anytime soon. After I killed my buck I was driving through pilot rock and I had a game warden right behind me and he didnt even bother to pull me over and check me out. You think they are gonna crack dwon on party hunting when its been going on since tags were first issued. I would much rather see them trying to crack bigger cases where guys are shooting 3-6 big bucks a year. Those are the problem people. In party hunting they only kill what they have tags for, so honestly what difference does it make who shoots it. It would really suprise me to see OSP take a stand of any kind on this issue.

All the party hunters I know want meat. They could care less about antlers, so they are usually not gonna go into the deepest darkest holes to hunt. that leaves alot of country for the others, I am sorry if people cant get their massive 5th wheels back into the holes, heaven forbid you have to walk. Its like a migration every year on I-84 thats actually kind of fun to watch how many mansions on wheels can we see in one hour!!......lol no pun intended.

anyway, I could personally care less if people party hunt, but had better not take more animals than you have tags for or OSP will be visiting you!

ehunter · 10-20-2005, 08:28 AM

I disagree with you completly but that is ok. Tag filling is poaching and I grew up in a rural little town in the coast. I will argue with anyone about substance hunting in this day and age. But I am sure there are some people who are not working and need meat. For the most part party hunting is about ego. If you spend money so you can go hunting or camping you could spend that money buying meat. How many guys buy a 4x4 that they use for hunting. The gas for a year to support it ect.

Maybe the answer is that party hunting should be legal and the fish and game should manage according and start reducing tags bases on new math. I am not sure how the math is computed but if they figure that 15% of the hunters are going to harvest now maybe they need to refigure for about 35% harvest figue and reduce the tag numbers accordingly?? Of course that will require going to a draw state wide. Blacktail included. I am pretty sure that will increase poaching so they will need to reduce tags more. Don't have answer other than if we at least follow the laws on the books now maybe that would help.

InPursuit · 10-20-2005, 08:48 AM

Quote: "Don't have answer other than if we at least follow the laws on the books now maybe that would help."

ehunter, you DO have the answer. Follow the laws on the books now and that WILL help!

You are very right about the 15% of the total tags issued will harvest theory. That is how they figure it out although the numbers vary between hunts, species etc. I can't see punishing everyone as a whole (by reducing tag numbers) when it is just a few (a minority) who violate the laws and cause the problems. Until OSP comes up with a better or at least additional method of catching/punishing that group

, we need to help police our own.

G-Dubb

Rank Amateur · 10-20-2005, 10:02 AM

I would agree with you. Party hunting has two meanings, those who apply as a party to hunt together and those who hunt as a party to fill the tags. Two different things, we are talking about the latter and as it has been pointed out it should have been called hog hunting or poaching!

While I would hope fathers don't take their sons hunting to fill their tags, I'm sure it happens. I do know a lot of wives get dragged alone for that purpose. Don't get me wrong, there are some very fine women hunters and the ones I have talked to about this have been very upset with there "sisters" for being used like this and degrading the successful female hunters in the eyes of their fellow sportspeople.

I agree, party tags do not cause the problem, the problem is wide spread. I do think that the controlled hunt format does cause an increase, since it gives some people the impression that they must hunt illegally in order to hunt. The simple fact is, there are people with and with out tags that are taking more than there fair share. No where in the regulations does it allow a person to take more than one animal. In the case of the wife shooting two deer by accident, you know guys we are not going to sweat that, it does and can happen, but it shouldn't happen on a regular basis. There is a difference here, it would be the word "Knowingly".

If you are knowingly taking more animals than you are allowed, then you are breaking the law. For some of you, that is no big deal, I guess you have no conscience. You do not care that the tags you are hogging are directly causing people to stay home, waiting their turn, maybe it is a 12 year old kid waiting to go on his first hunt!

For ODF&W the math is very simple. They have X number of available bucks to harvest in each unit, lets say 1,000 in this example. With a legal by the book harvest by the participating sportsmen of lets say 50% success they can allow 2,000 hunters to hunt the unit. But if we have a lot of party hunting, the rate goes to 70% success and the number of hunters allowed to go hunting must fall to 1428. For those involved, they are directly causing 572 people to stay home. Of coarse some of these people catch on to the game the rest are playing and soon some of them are doing the same thing. The bottom line is fewer and fewer tags are allowed for the unit. I would think ODF&W would be very concerned with this, because it means a lot less tags they can issue, of coarse maybe that is why the tag fees went up!

InPursuit · 10-20-2005, 11:21 AM

Well said!

StevenB · 10-20-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

I know some people who do party hunt because they honest to God need the meat.

I've discussed the party hunting style of poaching on two other forums and in both cases the final hit the wall issue was the term culture. Culture was the reason for people to fill tags for family members. Then came the need for meat and the guy with land who could no longer hold a firearm to shoot a deer on his own land. Some very interesting problems in this topic of course.

As a person who is familiar with some of the laws of subsistance fishing & hunting in Alaska I just want to point out that Oregons situation is nothing like Alaskas.
I'm sure that the people you are talking about who need the meat do have alternatives to having a friend or son go off and bring home every deer and elk it might take to fill tags that fill the meat needs and wants. Not that that is what is going on with the people you know exactly.

If someone wants to call culture or meat needs up against the party hunting style of poaching I suggest we create a topic for or against subsistance hunting & fishing in Oregon.

StevenB

StevenB · 10-20-2005, 03:24 PM

sunshinefisherman I agree that party hunting is not the right term. I PMed Rank a couple days ago that we might do better to call it hog hunting. Then ehunter reminded me it was no less than poaching. I think ehunter is right in that.

But what ever you call it I believe filling others tags has turned been termed party hunting by those who poach and those who do not poach. To re deffine what party hunting is might be the first step in getting rid of this very common hog hunting/poaching method.

Odd situations like when a hunter in a group drops a deer and then shoots another one will or can be used to derail this issue of poaching ala party hunting. I think unintentional acts shouldn't be excuses or distractions

from intentional acts of poaching.

StevenB